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Algathas
Wraithguard. The Wraithguard.
86
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Posted - 2017.05.12 01:35:52 -
[91] - Quote
Are you sure that you weren't jammed by the rats. Guristas rats can jam you and perhaps the person that killed you took advantage of it and was not jamming you himself. |
Asmodai Xodai
140
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Posted - 2017.05.12 01:46:33 -
[92] - Quote
Algathas wrote: Are you sure that you weren't jammed by the rats. Guristas rats can jam you and perhaps the person that killed you took advantage of it and was not jamming you himself.
That's actually a good point, although I think there was only one low-quality rat in the system when the Jackdaw came in. Also, I engaged the Jackdaw in conversation after the kill. I could have sworn he admitted he jammed me out.
I guess there's no way to get the fit from the killing ship, only the killed ship?
Can Gurista jammer rats spawn in any system? From my recollection, it was like a 0.3 system - in other words a 'joke' as far as difficulty. It wasn't even a haven or DED or whatever. It was, quite simply, an asteroid field. Not even one spawned from a signature. Just a regular old asteroid field. |
Algathas
Wraithguard. The Wraithguard.
86
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Posted - 2017.05.12 02:10:33 -
[93] - Quote
Asmodai Xodai wrote:Algathas wrote: Are you sure that you weren't jammed by the rats. Guristas rats can jam you and perhaps the person that killed you took advantage of it and was not jamming you himself.
That's actually a good point, although I think there was only one low-quality rat in the system when the Jackdaw came in. Also, I engaged the Jackdaw in conversation after the kill. I could have sworn he admitted he jammed me out. I guess there's no way to get the fit from the killing ship, only the killed ship? Can Gurista jammer rats spawn in any system? From my recollection, it was like a 0.3 system - in other words a 'joke' as far as difficulty. It wasn't even a haven or DED or whatever. It was, quite simply, an asteroid field. Not even one spawned from a signature. Just a regular old asteroid field.
All we can see from the kill mail is the Jackdaw used rockets and your drake had a terrible fit. Even if you weren't jammed odds are he would have still likely killed you pretty easily. On top of that you may have been jammed by a rat as guristas belt rats can jam you. Even if the person said he jammed you he may have just been BSing you just for LULZ. |
Mr Mieyli
Hedion University Amarr Empire
614
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Posted - 2017.05.12 03:28:46 -
[94] - Quote
Just go play world of tanks or warships OP, pvp in this game is not the typical second by second (outside of frigates) heart pounding action of other multiplayer games. You won't find people siding with you that not being able to take part in a fight is boring, so don't waste your time.
A case for more AoE in EvE
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Lienzo
Amanuensis
97
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Posted - 2017.05.12 03:35:16 -
[95] - Quote
It'd be pretty fair if gravimetric jammers reduced your locking ability for Caldari ships and their gravimetric powerplants.
Scenario: I have a ship with 10 points of grav strength. Someone jams me for 5 points of grav strength. It now takes twice as long to lock a Caldari ship. If I have 1 point, it takes 10 times as long. If I have 0 points, then I can't lock any a Caldari ships, even friendly ones. Ability to lock onto Minmatar iron oxide signatures unaffected.
Bonus: Anti-ECM modules now a factor to consider in many common doctrines, diverse logistics, etc. |
Pepper Swift
Perkone Caldari State
61472
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Posted - 2017.05.12 03:36:34 -
[96] - Quote
where can i sign..
What I need most.. is a day between Saturday and Sunday...
If life gives you melons, you might be dyslexic
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Coralas
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
110
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Posted - 2017.05.12 04:03:03 -
[97] - Quote
Lienzo wrote:It'd be pretty fair if gravimetric jammers reduced your locking ability for Caldari ships and their gravimetric powerplants.
Scenario: I have a ship with 10 points of grav strength. Someone jams me for 5 points of grav strength. It now takes twice as long to lock a Caldari ship. If I have 1 point, it takes 10 times as long. If I have 0 points, then I can't lock any a Caldari ships, even friendly ones. Ability to lock onto Minmatar iron oxide signatures unaffected.
Bonus: Anti-ECM modules now a factor to consider in many common doctrines, diverse logistics, etc.
Why don't we rename the module 'bad sensor dampener' whilst we are at it.
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Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
15825
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Posted - 2017.05.12 04:19:11 -
[98] - Quote
Buggs LeRoach wrote:Asmodai Xodai wrote:Jenn aSide wrote: What were you compensation skills at? The point is that if you don't know enough to properly fit a drake for low sec ratting, you probably neglected those skills as well.
Sure, I agree. I've "neglected" a lot of skills. I'm not a 10 year old bazillion SP character. I'm constantly training skills but still don't have even 1/10th of what I'd like to have. Also, I have not now, nor ever have, held myself up as some fitting guru, some high SP guy, some elite PvP'er, etc. If anyone cares to ask me how I rate myself at playing EvE, I'll gladly say "I suck." But the question was whether an unbonused hull could or would perma-jam something, and whether that would mean hell just froze over and pigs are flying. I'd say "yes, unbonused hulls can and do perma-jam things, and when it happens, I don't see pigs flying when I look outside my window." you came in this thread to defend your alt , who i called a liar . while i usually refrain from personal attacks , liars are so despicable that i made an exception . and with a bit of research , i can now state with no doubt : Asmodai Xodai and Beast of Revelations are one and the same !! so all you Beast fans , now know where to send those cards and letters !! here's beast's first post : https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2896762#post2896762 complaining about losing a hauler in an 04 , to 3 cruisers . now , scoot on over to zkillboard , and look up Asmodai Xodai on the same day the post was made . he loses a hauler , in 04 , to 3 cruisers . coincidence ?? sorry to out your alt , m8 . he had a good run and brightened many people's day with his wit and wisdom . he'll be missed ...
Holy crap. Nice find, and it makes sense.
A few years ago a dude quit and in his quitting post he listed his alts and I immediately noticed that 3 or 4 of them were people I'd argued with on the forums. I couldn't believe it even though I should have been able to. I can't believe there are people who would stoop so low as to pretend to be multiple people to bolster their pretty nonsensical arguments. I mean damn, that's pitiful.
I figure that happens a lot on a forum like this that lets you post with whatever character you own. I do chuckle though when I think of the possibility that several of the people I dislike that frequent this forum might in some cases be one messed up in the head dude lol. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
3989
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Posted - 2017.05.12 04:42:10 -
[99] - Quote
Keno Skir wrote:Not much wrong with ECM in my opinion. Just my 2c.. Been predominantly a solo hunter so far and while ECM makes the guy on one end feel bad, it works generally well in my experience. And this is why there is a problem with ECM. Fights should be enjoyed by both parties, not just the winner. It's certainly not the only mechanic in EVE that doesn't promote engagement & enjoyment on both sides, but anyone pretending that sitting there watching a timer tick down before you are allowed to interact with the game is a good idea..... Yeah, you are delusional. |
Arkoth 24
Sebiestor Tribe
362
|
Posted - 2017.05.12 05:10:51 -
[100] - Quote
Brigadine Ferathine wrote:So stupid. Video games are supposed to be fun. Your tears are fun.
Evelopedia via Wayback Machine
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Coralas
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
112
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Posted - 2017.05.12 05:36:07 -
[101] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Keno Skir wrote:Not much wrong with ECM in my opinion. Just my 2c.. Been predominantly a solo hunter so far and while ECM makes the guy on one end feel bad, it works generally well in my experience. And this is why there is a problem with ECM. Fights should be enjoyed by both parties, not just the winner. It's certainly not the only mechanic in EVE that doesn't promote engagement & enjoyment on both sides, but anyone pretending that sitting there watching a timer tick down before you are allowed to interact with the game is a good idea..... Yeah, you are delusional.
My experience is that in solo / small gang fighting, half of the participants will get anger level up to "complaining on local" as soon as they start losing, and out of the half that don't complain, I'm betting half of those complain on friendly comms about it.
How they lose really doesn't matter.
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Blade Darth
Room for Improvement Limited Expectations
98
|
Posted - 2017.05.12 09:53:41 -
[102] - Quote
Also remove kiting ships, neuts and tracking disruptors from the game. I want to shoot something! But I can't! Buee!
~Trump. |
Beast of Revelations
Hedion University Amarr Empire
200
|
Posted - 2017.05.12 11:05:34 -
[103] - Quote
HOW TO FIX ECM
First off:
1) Remove RNG.
Now that that's done, the following is off the top of my head, but it's probably a step in the right direction, at least when compared to what we have:
2) Make it like tracking disruption in that at optimal range, it's 100% effective, at falloff, 50%, etc. Let's call this %EFF.
3) Every cycle has a cool down. So it would be JAM - COOL - JAM - COOL ... Let's call the percentage of time a cycle is in 'jam' vs 'cool' %JAM.
So the final formula would be:
TIME TARGET IS JAMMED PER CYCLE = %EFF x %JAM |
Marika Sunji
Dark-Rising Wrecking Machine.
16
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Posted - 2017.05.12 13:54:49 -
[104] - Quote
Beast of Revelations wrote:HOW TO FIX ECM
First off:
1) Remove RNG.
Now that that's done, the following is off the top of my head, but it's probably a step in the right direction, at least when compared to what we have:
2) Make it like tracking disruption in that at optimal range, it's 100% effective, at falloff, 50%, etc. Let's call this %EFF.
3) Every cycle has a cool down. So it would be JAM - COOL - JAM - COOL ... Let's call the percentage of time a cycle is in 'jam' vs 'cool' %JAM.
So the final formula would be:
TIME TARGET IS JAMMED PER CYCLE = %EFF x %JAM
Let's tackle these in reverse order.
3) You do realize that due to things I already specifically mentioned to you, i.e. stripping any and all forms of tank (hell, ECM rigs have shield capacity drawbacks) and lack of meaningful dps or utility on ECM boats, a jam cooldown cycle would be more of a "YES PLEASE SHOOT ME IM DEFENSELESS" sign...
2) They already have falloff. I assure you that even the universally-hated falcon isn't jamming so much as a cormorant at over 80km. I tested that.
1) So now you want jams to hit every time? Wouldn't that be a bit too powerful? |
Beast of Revelations
Hedion University Amarr Empire
200
|
Posted - 2017.05.12 15:52:24 -
[105] - Quote
Marika Sunji wrote:
3) You do realize that due to things I already specifically mentioned to you, i.e. stripping any and all forms of tank (hell, ECM rigs have shield capacity drawbacks) and lack of meaningful dps or utility on ECM boats, a jam cooldown cycle would be more of a "YES PLEASE SHOOT ME IM DEFENSELESS" sign...
The jam cooldown is so that perma-jamming is impossible. And the guy wearing a 'shoot me i'm defenseless' sign is the guy who is perma-jammed, not the guy who flies around perma-jamming people and therefore who can't even be shot at.
Quote: 2) They already have falloff. I assure you that even the universally-hated falcon isn't jamming so much as a cormorant at over 80km. I tested that.
The point was to move from an RNG-based 'all or nothing' proposition to some kind of smooth curve-based proposition. If they currently have falloff, the mechanics are completely different than what I'm proposing.
Quote:1) So now you want jams to hit every time? Wouldn't that be a bit too powerful?
It certainly would be without the cooldown and effectiveness modifiers. |
Marika Sunji
Dark-Rising Wrecking Machine.
16
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Posted - 2017.05.12 16:02:17 -
[106] - Quote
Beast of Revelations wrote: The jam cooldown is so that perma-jamming is impossible. And the guy wearing a 'shoot me i'm defenseless' sign is the guy who is perma-jammed, not the guy who flies around perma-jamming people and therefore who can't even be shot at.
You do realize there are usually multiple people on-grid and that you cannot jam everyone? Further, you do realize that optimizing the game around small gang pvp would be a complete and unmitigated disaster?
Beast of Revelations wrote: The point was to move from an RNG-based 'all or nothing' proposition to some kind of smooth curve-based proposition. If they currently have falloff, the mechanics are completely different than what I'm proposing.
The falloff simply reduces jam chance. ECM is an all-or-nothing mechanic, it cannot work part-way. There are no instances of you losing 73.5% of your locks...
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Beast of Revelations
Hedion University Amarr Empire
200
|
Posted - 2017.05.12 16:20:01 -
[107] - Quote
Marika Sunji wrote: Further, you do realize that optimizing the game around small gang pvp would be a complete and unmitigated disaster?
Optimizing it around large gang PvP is also a complete and unmitigated disaster.
My proposition is neutral to both styles of play, and works the same way in each case.
Quote: The falloff simply reduces jam chance.
Under my proposition, the falloff would reduce jam time. Is this so terrible?
Quote: ECM is an all-or-nothing mechanic, it cannot work part-way. There are no instances of you losing 73.5% of your locks...
Currently, the proposition is binary. You are jammed, or you are not jammed. It is also RNG-based, which is a dumb, stupid, asinine mechanic.
Under my proposition, you are always jammed some percent of a cycle. But you are also NOT jammed some percent of a cycle. Time jammed vs unjammed per cycle would depend on distance (optimal, falloff, etc), and depend on cooldown. |
Marika Sunji
Dark-Rising Wrecking Machine.
16
|
Posted - 2017.05.12 16:48:49 -
[108] - Quote
Beast of Revelations wrote: Currently, the proposition is binary. You are jammed, or you are not jammed. It is also RNG-based, which is a dumb, stupid, asinine mechanic.
Under my proposition, you are always jammed some percent of a cycle. But you are also NOT jammed some percent of a cycle. Time jammed vs unjammed per cycle would depend on distance (optimal, falloff, etc), and depend on cooldown.
So, what you're saying is that giving me a "iwin-lol-ecksdee" card that I wave at the HIC pointing my titan and get away scot-free will be more fair and balanced than the current mechanics? Well... okay... |
Coralas
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
112
|
Posted - 2017.05.12 16:57:13 -
[109] - Quote
Beast of Revelations wrote:
Currently, the proposition is binary. You are jammed, or you are not jammed. It is also RNG-based, which is a dumb, stupid, asinine mechanic.
Under my proposition, you are always jammed some percent of a cycle. But you are also NOT jammed some percent of a cycle. Time jammed vs unjammed per cycle would depend on distance (optimal, falloff, etc), and depend on cooldown.
You have to reestablish locks after a jam, and then also certain ships will deal with the time available far more effectively. ie its an extremely favourable mechanic for ishtars and vexors to be even more powerful against jams, but its particularly unfavorable to turret battleships that probably can't lock anything with part of a jam cycle.
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Beast of Revelations
Hedion University Amarr Empire
200
|
Posted - 2017.05.12 17:20:34 -
[110] - Quote
Marika Sunji wrote:
So, what you're saying is that giving me a "iwin-lol-ecksdee" card that I wave at the HIC pointing my titan and get away scot-free will be more fair and balanced than the current mechanics? Well... okay...
Sorry... I don't follow ??? |
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Marika Sunji
Dark-Rising Wrecking Machine.
16
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Posted - 2017.05.12 17:55:29 -
[111] - Quote
Beast of Revelations wrote:Marika Sunji wrote:
So, what you're saying is that giving me a "iwin-lol-ecksdee" card that I wave at the HIC pointing my titan and get away scot-free will be more fair and balanced than the current mechanics? Well... okay...
Sorry... I don't follow ???
If ECM always lands, even for a second, which, under your idea, it does, then an aligned titan has to use its ecm just once to get the hic to drop the infinipoint and for the titan to enter warp and be invulnerable (since it can cloak on a safe or jump to safety). |
Algathas
Wraithguard. The Wraithguard.
86
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Posted - 2017.05.12 18:48:24 -
[112] - Quote
Marika Sunji wrote:Beast of Revelations wrote:Marika Sunji wrote:
So, what you're saying is that giving me a "iwin-lol-ecksdee" card that I wave at the HIC pointing my titan and get away scot-free will be more fair and balanced than the current mechanics? Well... okay...
Sorry... I don't follow ??? If ECM always lands, even for a second, which, under your idea, it does, then an aligned titan has to use its ecm just once to get the hic to drop the infinipoint and for the titan to enter warp and be invulnerable (since it can cloak on a safe or jump to safety).
In addition, if it always lands and the "cooldown" period is less than the lock time of a large target ship, or the target is also damped, then in effect they are perma jammed much easier than the current scenario. On top of that, someone could use multiple jams and stagger them such that during the cooldown of one jam, the other is activated.
That would make large ships effectively useless against any fleet that has one small ship with a jam vs the current scenario where larger ships are harder to jam. |
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
2688
|
Posted - 2017.05.12 19:18:07 -
[113] - Quote
So there is this game called chess and the people I play keep beating me because they use this thing that looks kind of like a horse and it moves funny and confuses me! These need to be removed from the game because I am too busy to learn how to do this chess thing!! Stupid game!! |
Beast of Revelations
Hedion University Amarr Empire
200
|
Posted - 2017.05.12 19:41:39 -
[114] - Quote
Marika Sunji wrote: If ECM always lands, even for a second, which, under your idea, it does, then an aligned titan has to use its ecm just once to get the hic to drop the infinipoint and for the titan to enter warp and be invulnerable (since it can cloak on a safe or jump to safety).
So you think having this controlled by RNG is a superior mechanic? How is my proposal worse? |
Beast of Revelations
Hedion University Amarr Empire
200
|
Posted - 2017.05.12 20:02:30 -
[115] - Quote
Algathas wrote: In addition, if it always lands and the "cooldown" period is less than the lock time of a large target ship, or the target is also damped, then in effect they are perma jammed much easier than the current scenario. On top of that, someone could use multiple jams and stagger them such that during the cooldown of one jam, the other is activated.
That would make large ships effectively useless against any fleet that has one small ship with a jam vs the current scenario where larger ships are harder to jam.
You believe RNG is superior? |
Algathas
Wraithguard. The Wraithguard.
86
|
Posted - 2017.05.12 20:10:37 -
[116] - Quote
Beast of Revelations wrote:Algathas wrote: In addition, if it always lands and the "cooldown" period is less than the lock time of a large target ship, or the target is also damped, then in effect they are perma jammed much easier than the current scenario. On top of that, someone could use multiple jams and stagger them such that during the cooldown of one jam, the other is activated.
That would make large ships effectively useless against any fleet that has one small ship with a jam vs the current scenario where larger ships are harder to jam.
You believe RNG is superior?
Far superior to the garbage you propose. |
Marika Sunji
Dark-Rising Wrecking Machine.
16
|
Posted - 2017.05.12 20:36:56 -
[117] - Quote
Beast of Revelations wrote:Marika Sunji wrote: If ECM always lands, even for a second, which, under your idea, it does, then an aligned titan has to use its ecm just once to get the hic to drop the infinipoint and for the titan to enter warp and be invulnerable (since it can cloak on a safe or jump to safety).
So you think having this controlled by RNG is a superior mechanic? How is my proposal worse?
Which part of "point-immune supercaps" sounds like a fair and balanced mechanic? I'm honestly curious on this one. |
Beast of Revelations
Hedion University Amarr Empire
200
|
Posted - 2017.05.12 20:48:03 -
[118] - Quote
Marika Sunji wrote: Which part of "point-immune supercaps" sounds like a fair and balanced mechanic? I'm honestly curious on this one.
But if it happens due to RNG that's fine?
I don't think it's a fair and balanced mechanic, and it's good to point out flaws like this which are easily fixable (I could fix the issue you present in two minutes, completely off the top of my head). But either way, the current RNG-based mechanic could cause the same phenomenon, and it's not any better. |
Old Pervert
Perkone Caldari State
70
|
Posted - 2017.05.12 21:53:34 -
[119] - Quote
Brigadine Ferathine wrote:It kills solo and small gang stuff man. The maximum number of targets should never be 0.
Am I right in assuming then that you normally PVP by splitting your guns across multiple targets? An ECM that reduces the number of targets to non-zero values is useless.
Brigadine Ferathine wrote: there is literally no counter to it. Option #1: Fit a Sebo and have an ECCM script Option #2: Fit a Sebo and have an ECCM script Option #3: Cry in the forums for the rest of us to enjoy
Two of those options are productive for you, one of them is not.
You would have no better luck in your cruiser against an RSD frigate, or a weapon disruption frigate. EWAR is effective when used as a force multiplier.
Interestingly, a Sebo has benefits under any and all circumstances. |
Blade Darth
Room for Improvement Limited Expectations
99
|
Posted - 2017.05.12 22:44:58 -
[120] - Quote
Brigadine Ferathine- pro small gang pvp tip: Bring a Keres with you. In addition to shutting down falcons before they can even lock, it makes enemy logi regret they agreed to fly logi. And lands 100% time.
I don't really understand solo pvp'ers crying about ecm. You go solo, you will die (more often), no matter what kind of ship enemy brings since it will most likely be 1vs3 or 5 or 10. ECM is one of the cheesiest options, but not the worst. Dropping a carrier or bringing a 1500 dps battleship to kill your cruiser is even worse. Yes, you can shoot, but you also get blapped in 3 hits. Neuts can be a pain too. Not only you loose tackle, but also possibly hardeners and damage. And get tickled to death afterwards. |
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