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Tressith Sefira
The Scope Gallente Federation
213
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Posted - 2017.05.10 06:24:45 -
[1] - Quote
Sorry about this!
The word Gallente doesn't mean anything. No, you think it does, but it does not - and it especially doesn't mean anything to the people or ideas you're labelling as "Gallente."
Gallente is a language.1 More than one, actually; Interstellar Gallente, Garouni, Lyacian Gallente, more. 9 Gallente is a collection of peoples; that is the generic word used to describe all peoples who live in the Federation, and that means the Mannar, the Jin-Mei, the Intaki, the Raata Caldari,5 the Vox, and all those Minmatar, too.2 That's the generic word for all Federation citizens, used by the Federation, mostly, because no one who lives planetside in the Federation identifies first as being a Federation citizen; loyalty to your member-state is by far the most important influence in a citizen's identity.3 Gallente refers to all systems and territories owned by the Federation, but it also means all of those places and organisations that operate independent of Federation borders that once had Federation origins - Scope,8 Quafe7. It means the foods, the fashions, like the business suits the ethnic Gallente invented, or t-shirts6 -
But wait, no, you OBVIOUSLY mean the ETHNIC Gallente? Well, that makes things a bit clearer, I suppose, but you must know that the phrase "ethnic Gallente" as the ethnic Gallente define it is an ethnicity and not a race, right? What you understand to be an Amarrian man - in appearance, in bloodline - can come to the Federation, say he is ethnic Gallente, then be treated as such.41011
Oh, wait, do you mean the RACE of the ethnic Gallente, not the other "races" who "just claim" to be ethnic Gallente? Funny story, that. That hasn't existed in over a hundred years. We are a "harmoniously mongrelised" peoples; we've interbred so much, so often, that we don't have a distinct bloodline or genetic heritage anymore. Most ethnic Gallente have a respectable chunk of Caldari in them (heh heh) as well as Mannar, Intaki.1012 And don't get me started on what happened to our diversity on Gallentia. Don't get me started.
("Harmoniously mongrelised" is the academic term. Leave me alone.)
Hold on, you mean I'm making it too complicated? Ok, let me make it easier... Let's do this by region. When you're talking about ethnic Gallente, do you mean Solitude ethnic Gallente - those second union throwbacks?13 Do you mean Sinq Liason ethnic Gallenteans with more of a mercantile streak since Dodixie became our major trade hub?14 Or do you mean the et... |
Tressith Sefira
The Scope Gallente Federation
213
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Posted - 2017.05.10 06:25:08 -
[2] - Quote
Reserved. |
Tressith Sefira
The Scope Gallente Federation
213
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Posted - 2017.05.10 06:26:56 -
[3] - Quote
I have no idea how much space this is going to take but it's a doozy. Reserved. |
Tressith Sefira
The Scope Gallente Federation
214
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Posted - 2017.05.10 06:42:52 -
[4] - Quote
Am I going to need ANOTHER one of these? |
Dusklit Thistle
State War Academy Caldari State
15
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Posted - 2017.05.10 07:06:28 -
[5] - Quote
Informative!
Shady gentleman with a shady plan
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Charles Cambridge Schmidt
The Scope Gallente Federation
448
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Posted - 2017.05.10 07:12:18 -
[6] - Quote
Tressith Sefira wrote:TL;DR upgrade your racism with this one EASY trick But if I am a better racist than other racists, they'll accuse me of oppressing them by having homogenized their own skills! And we can't have that.
Good posts, though, T. Any time someone doesn't get what I'm trying to get at when I say Gallente they'll just get a big fat link here instead and I'll make them sit here and read this and they'll complain and I'll say, tough stuff, buddy, this is your mistake.
I don't care what you think, as long as it's about me.
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Tressith Sefira
The Scope Gallente Federation
232
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Posted - 2017.05.10 07:19:10 -
[7] - Quote
Charles Cambridge Schmidt wrote: Any time someone doesn't get what I'm trying to get at when I say Gallente they'll just get a big fat link here instead and I'll make them sit here and read this and they'll complain and I'll say, tough stuff, buddy, this is your mistake.
To be fair to them, though, it's stupid complicated and it doesn't make much sense when you try to talk about it. Even living inside the Federation and identifying as ethnic Gallente doesn't guarantee a fluent understanding of it. "What do you mean, you're ethnic Gallente just because you say so? You're clearly Khanid! Look at your skin!" - "Oh, I see you're a racist." It's all a touch comical. |
Mizhir
TURN LEFT HYDRA RELOADED
75212
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Posted - 2017.05.10 10:42:13 -
[8] - Quote
People put too much effort into labeling each other.
But certainly informative. Even for someone who grew up in the big melting pot.
Death rides a fast C4mel
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Ereka Nihil
Faded Light
31
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Posted - 2017.05.10 11:12:50 -
[9] - Quote
The important question, though, is whether you still get pinged by your equipment whenever someone says Gallente, Triss...
Gallente Gallente Gallente... |
Tressith Sefira
The Scope Gallente Federation
242
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Posted - 2017.05.10 11:23:03 -
[10] - Quote
Ereka Nihil wrote:The important question, though, is whether you still get pinged by your equipment whenever someone says Gallente, Triss...
Gallente Gallente Gallente...
My one weakness!
Yeah, I still have my neocom set to ping me whenever someone says "Gallente." Because I hate myself, and I deserve to suffer. |
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Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3512
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Posted - 2017.05.10 13:04:42 -
[11] - Quote
... and this is why the Federation must be destroyed.
(Come ON, people, it took until the 10th reply? None of you jumped on this first so she can't do it? Disappointing.) |
Pieter Tuulinen
Akagi Initiative Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
7549
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Posted - 2017.05.10 15:19:41 -
[12] - Quote
I approve of the detail, but the annotations make me tingly.
For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead
in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a
hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
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Saccade Amir
University of Caille Gallente Federation
29
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Posted - 2017.05.10 16:17:25 -
[13] - Quote
hell **** yes on an open face **** sandwich, you even got the ****** bathhouses in there. Someday.
and cause somebody has to: CAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIIILLE FOR LIIIIIIIIIIIIIFE |
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
3800
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Posted - 2017.05.10 16:50:02 -
[14] - Quote
Uh ... so, Triss? I'm grateful for the history lesson and the nuance, but, to add a little from the other side....
If it's called the "Gallente Federation," which it mostly is, and what most of us see of it is its metaculture (as seen through a telescope) and its foreign policy, and if those things aren't really traceable to any single group within the Federation, but appear plain as day to people outside it, AND "the Gallente" isn't very meaningful inside the Federation but appears pretty clear to those of us living at a distance from you and in radically different cultures....
Doesn't that basically mean that "the Gallente" is still useful, but maybe as a catch-all term for Federal entities and policies, and especially those originating in the Federation's metaculture or something? |
Tressith Sefira
The Scope Gallente Federation
257
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Posted - 2017.05.10 17:05:45 -
[15] - Quote
First, thanks for responding, Aria. You're forever a gem.
Second, no, because these supposed Federation "entities," "policies," and singular "metaculture" doesn't exist as foreigners understand them, and there ain't no point in being racist against something that don't exist. Really, this term "the Gallente" is far more useful in showing that the speaker in question don't got no clue about what he's talking about or is an expert satirical producer. There's a fine, if debatable line.
When I'm not delirious in bed with sleep deprivation I'll drop another text tank about how those things don't exist with full citations. I think I can manage that in a single post without hitting the text limit.
Saccade, I love you and also you suck.
Pieter, sometimes I have private thoughts and then make mental citations for them in the CLA format. We have a spiritual connection. |
Valerie Valate
Church of The Crimson Saviour Sani-Sabik
2163
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Posted - 2017.05.10 17:11:36 -
[16] - Quote
I feel compelled to point out, that alternative guides to Gallente culture exist.
Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.
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Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
3802
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Posted - 2017.05.10 17:35:12 -
[17] - Quote
Tressith Sefira wrote:First, thanks for responding, Aria. You're forever a gem.
Second, no, because these supposed Federation "entities," "policies," and singular "metaculture" doesn't exist as foreigners understand them, and there ain't no point in being racist against something that don't exist. Really, this term "the Gallente" is far more useful in showing that the speaker in question don't got no clue about what he's talking about or is an expert satirical producer. There's a fine, if debatable line. Only, Triss? If these things don't exist, how come the Caldari (mostly) experience of them is so, well, vivid? It's not just State propaganda, I don't think? For decades, the Federation has exported a certain vision of itself, and a certain moral sensibility, through its media, which gets exported basically everywhere. The stereotypes the rest of us have about the Federation mostly come from such things, I think, and it's not like federal policy is an incoherent thing, or very out of tune with those images.
If these things are illusions, where are they coming from, and why do they seem so real?
Personally, I kind of try not to make too many assumptions about people just based on what they look like. I'm half Civire, myself, not that this inoculates me particularly. But, virtually all New Eden's cultures other than yours seem to be at least a little "racist." The Caldari, with their obsession with pure bloodlines, and the orthodox True Amarr supremacists are obvious, but also a lot of Matari can hardly stop carrying on about how clever the Sebiestor are.
Myself, I'm not completely sure: how much is ancestry, and how much is culture? Is my tendency toward introspection because my mother was an Achur, or because I was raised Achura? Is my reckless streak because I'm half Civire, or is it just me? Or is it maybe that I know my father was Civire, and Civire are expected to be aggressive?
So I hope you won't feel like I'm just looking to nail down something to call "Gallente" so that I can point to it and say, "Gallente are like thus-and-such." Even if such a group existed, it's something I'd be pretty ambivalent about.
Only ... hiking in the highlands, I found a rock high up on a peak. It wasn't anything particularly unusual for its surroundings, "just a chunk of granite," you might say, but patterned, cracked, and weathered in ways that probably made it unique in all the world, maybe in the whole universe. I left it there, and traveled on a ways. An hour or two later, when I looked back, all I could see was the mountain. |
Jason Galente
Tempest Legion
1126
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Posted - 2017.05.10 18:00:47 -
[18] - Quote
Still doesn't top the original, or as I should now call it: "Gallente" - without sources!
Only the liberty of the individual assures the prosperity of the whole.
And this foundation must be defended.
At any cost
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Valerie Valate
Church of The Crimson Saviour Sani-Sabik
2166
|
Posted - 2017.05.10 19:13:28 -
[19] - Quote
The "original", written by you, seven months after my article.
Quite.
Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.
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Jason Galente
Tempest Legion
1131
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Posted - 2017.05.10 22:37:03 -
[20] - Quote
Valerie Valate wrote:The "original", written by you, seven months after my article. Quite.
Oh, right.
I probably should've checked the year.
Only the liberty of the individual assures the prosperity of the whole.
And this foundation must be defended.
At any cost
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Valerie Valate
Church of The Crimson Saviour Sani-Sabik
2169
|
Posted - 2017.05.11 05:04:04 -
[21] - Quote
The article is comprehensively referenced, and makes a strong argument.
As an opinion piece, it is very good. As an academic piece, the conversational tone goes against convention, which would result in a penalty to grading.
Overall: GÿàGÿàGÿàGÿåGÿå
Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.
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Auriga Menkalinan
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
4
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Posted - 2017.05.11 12:26:27 -
[22] - Quote
Thank you for your interesting post. I agree with your main point.
Tressith Sefira wrote:The word Gallente doesn't mean anything. No, you think it does, but it does not - and it especially doesn't mean anything to the people or ideas you're labelling as "Gallente." Perhaps I am misunderstanding but this point does not seem to me to sit naturally with your later statements about homogenised culture on Gallentia and the wider Federation.
If our culture is so uniform, doesn't that undermine your argument? I would suggest that our cultural diversity is the main reason why your main point is true.
A culture is much more than political and social values and local culture can coexist alongside more universal values. As you say, there are restaurants to consider!
Thanks again, more of the same please. |
Veikitamo Gesakaarin
Kurilaivonen
2152
|
Posted - 2017.05.30 22:00:43 -
[23] - Quote
Tressith Sefira wrote:
The word Gallente doesn't mean anything. No, you think it does, but it does not - and it especially doesn't mean anything to the people or ideas you're labelling as "Gallente."
Now dear, that's just rude. Jason Galente means nothing? He might not to you, but he will forever be the mischievous rogue and rakish ne'er do 'ell to me!
That said, when the Gallente introduced themselves on the interplanetary stage they did so as Gallente. The Gallente even formed a committee, the ISC, to determine if they should be Gallente or something else and upon taking a vote the Gallente decided that if they wanted to be referred to by anything collectively then it would be Gallente. As such the Gallente decided upon their own initiative that they would all be Gallente from that point on and if others decide to call the Gallente the Gallente then I am unsure why Gallente would be offended being Gallente when they are, in fact, Gallente by virtue of their own decision to be the Gallente?
Now there might be more to being Gallente than just a Gallente, at least if you abide by the maxim: Just because I'm Gallente does not mean I believe in labels like Gallente. However in Interstellar Gallente the definition of Gallente is usually described as related to the peoples and nations of Gallente Prime or if you prefer Gallentia; associated with the member-states of the Gallente Federation; someone who identifies as culturally or racially Gallente.
As such I'm pretty sure according to the Gallente themselves when I label something Gallente then it's Gallente. Especially when using Interstellar Gallente which is used by the Gallente in the Gallente Federation among other Gallente languages. |
Claudia Osyn
Non-Hostile Target
2428
|
Posted - 2017.05.31 05:08:25 -
[24] - Quote
I don't even know what I am anymore.....
A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.
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Pieter Tuulinen
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd. Arataka Research Consortium
7710
|
Posted - 2017.05.31 05:37:13 -
[25] - Quote
Claudia Osyn wrote:I don't even know what I am anymore..... Gallente
For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead
in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a
hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
|
Halcyon Ember
Repracor Industries
415
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Posted - 2017.05.31 07:50:12 -
[26] - Quote
Claudia Osyn wrote:I don't even know what I am anymore..... A capsuleer. Or, in lay terms, someone with the freedom to identify however you wish and damn what anyone thinks.
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Charles Cambridge Schmidt
Schmidt's Sewing Suits and Spaceships
478
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Posted - 2017.05.31 09:22:56 -
[27] - Quote
Veikitamo Gesakaarin wrote:
Now dear, that's just rude. Jason Galente means nothing? He might not to you, but he will forever be the mischievous rogue and rakish ne'er do 'ell to me!
That said, when the Gallente introduced themselves on the interplanetary stage they did so as Gallente. The Gallente even formed a committee, the ISC, to determine if they should be Gallente or something else and upon taking a vote the Gallente decided that if they wanted to be referred to by anything collectively then it would be Gallente. As such the Gallente decided upon their own initiative that they would all be Gallente from that point on and if others decide to call the Gallente the Gallente then I am unsure why Gallente would be offended being Gallente when they are, in fact, Gallente by virtue of their own decision to be the Gallente?
Now there might be more to being Gallente than just a Gallente, at least if you abide by the maxim: Just because I'm Gallente does not mean I believe in labels like Gallente. However in Interstellar Gallente the definition of Gallente is usually described as related to the peoples and nations of Gallente Prime or if you prefer Gallentia; associated with the member-states of the Gallente Federation; someone who identifies as culturally or racially Gallente.
I'm pretty sure according to the Gallente themselves when I label something Gallente then it's Gallente. Especially when using Interstellar Gallente which is used by the Gallente in the Gallente Federation among other Gallente languages.
Aside from the tongue-in-cheek tone of this whole thing, one thing you are / have misinterpreted are political and ethnic definitions of what it means to be Gallente. While there is definitely a political definition of Gallente referring to the Federation as a whole vis a vis saying they're a Federal citizen, there's a critical implication that's understood to other Federal citizens in the fact that calling a Federal citizen blanket-Gallente is silly.
Not only to we got Intaki, Jin-Mei, lots of Mannar, but we have citizens of every ethnicity from every nation in vast quantities. They are, politically, Gallente. Ethnically or even ethically, the rate of deviation in the definition of "Gallente" is too extreme to properly blanket-quantify the populace as Gallente. And... that's just the people who are actually Federal citizens. There's the "Gallente" ethnicity everywhere. We're in your Civire. We're in your Sebbie. We're everywhere.
That being said, even for those who DO identify as Gallente, as Triss said, there's too much to go off. Identification is dependent on location as well as genetics as well as culture and more and more and more factors. Even at the most basic, people forget that the Kingdom of Garoun even exists. No amount of repeating the word "Gallente" for snarky comedic impact will change the fact that people are overly generalizing.
I don't care what you think, as long as it's about me.
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Elmund Egivand
Sebestacny Circle
2449
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Posted - 2017.05.31 09:30:38 -
[28] - Quote
So, we should be calling you guys as 'Mongrels' and 'Semi-Mongrels' instead?
A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
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Davlos
Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition
151
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Posted - 2017.05.31 12:57:03 -
[29] - Quote
A charmer as always, Cutestable Sefira. |
Claudia Osyn
Non-Hostile Target
2431
|
Posted - 2017.05.31 14:26:21 -
[30] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:Claudia Osyn wrote:I don't even know what I am anymore..... Gallente But, what even is that anymore?
A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.
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