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Salvos Rhoska
2921
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Posted - 2017.05.18 15:07:51 -
[1] - Quote
Currently at 1.4-1.5bil.
Surprised?
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Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
33609
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Posted - 2017.05.18 15:23:14 -
[2] - Quote
Not at all. I have now 12500 (after conversio) that I bought before the change. And I have account PLEXed to the end of may 2020.
Future looks bright for me.
ߦçߦáߦç-Ç-ŠߦÿߦÇ-Çߦ¢ ߦÅ-ô ß¦Ç +óߦÇߦìߦç -£ß¦ç-ƒß¦ÿs ߦ¢ß¦Å ߦ¢ß¦ç-ƒ-ƒ ß¦Ç sߦ¢ß¦Å-Ç-Å =ƒôò
ߦí-£ß¦ç-Çߦç +¬s ߦÇ+¦+ó-Ç-ŠߦäߦÅ+¦ß¦äߦÅ-Çߦà +óߦ£-Šߦí-£ß¦ç+¦ -ÅߦÅߦ£ +¦ß¦çߦçߦà -£+¬ß¦ì
ߦÅsߦÿ-Çߦç-Å =ƒÜÇ
GëíGïüGëí GÖÑ
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Loki Yamaguchi
Level 42 Industries
11
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Posted - 2017.05.18 15:32:51 -
[3] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Surprised?
Disappointed. |
Spc One
The Chodak Void Alliance
318
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Posted - 2017.05.18 15:51:31 -
[4] - Quote
Nah, i'll just stop playing for 12 months, lets see what happens in 1 year. if it's still more than 2.5mil i'll stop playing forever.
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Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
11090
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Posted - 2017.05.18 15:51:50 -
[5] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Currently at 1.4-1.5bil.
Surprised? Nope. Not at all.
Player run economy. Though CCP could do some slight manipulation as they have in the past by doing a legit sale instead of the cash grab scam they're offering right now.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
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Eager Fusillade
Beans On Low Heat Night Council
14
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Posted - 2017.05.18 15:57:22 -
[6] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Currently at 1.4-1.5bil.
Surprised?
It irks me a little, but doesn't surprise me. The price of PLEX is like fuel. Ever rising in price. |
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
15844
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Posted - 2017.05.18 16:03:35 -
[7] - Quote
I'm quite enjoying it even though it's making my in game expenses go up (it now costs 6 bil a month to plex my 4 accounts, 200 mil a day). I'm enjoying it because of all the crying that's coming from the entitled fools who don't understand that plex is a luxury and that no one (including CCP) owes anyone cheap plex. |
Lulu Lunette
Savage Moon Society
1609
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Posted - 2017.05.18 16:14:22 -
[8] - Quote
I'm counting all my pennies but it's looking like I won't be able to afford to buy a PLEX to keep my PI going lol. I'm projecting I'll be around 1.3b in my wallet in 8 days when the time runs out.
I could probably subscribe again
@lunettelulu7
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Matthias Ancaladron
Wrath of Angels Solitaire.
296
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Posted - 2017.05.18 16:15:40 -
[9] - Quote
No I said this week's ago that prices would skyrocket. Just wait for them to reach 4mil per Plex.
Theyre making it impossible for newer characters to Plex. There should have been a 1b ceiling implemented to prevent this. |
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
3033
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Posted - 2017.05.18 16:26:57 -
[10] - Quote
looking at the isk faucet graphs I'm not surprised at all, we have more isk than ever, and stuff is cheap so we don't have a lot to spend it on. Plex has been on a long upward trend, sure it drops every now and then but almost always finds a new peak. Nothing like a big market shakeup to drive it even higher.
Jenn aSide wrote:I'm quite enjoying it even though it's making my in game expenses go up (it now costs 6 bil a month to plex my 4 accounts, 200 mil a day). I'm enjoying it because of all the crying that's coming from the entitled fools who don't understand that plex is a luxury and that no one (including CCP) owes anyone cheap plex. as an established player the cost doesn't really bother me, I can make something like 200-300 mil an hour actively grinding, that said I'm making most of my isk semi passively trading/building stuff right now
selling officer BCUs! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6872141
@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
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Don Pera Saissore
131
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Posted - 2017.05.18 16:52:20 -
[11] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:I'm quite enjoying it even though it's making my in game expenses go up (it now costs 6 bil a month to plex my 4 accounts, 200 mil a day). I'm enjoying it because of all the crying that's coming from the entitled fools who don't understand that plex is a luxury and that no one (including CCP) owes anyone cheap plex.
Luxury? No. But a necessity. I dont expect plex to be cheap (when i say cheap i mean around 600 mil) but im not paying 1.5 bil even though i can afford way more than that. Get off your high horse, he is tired let him rest. |
Sky Marshal
Core Industry. Blades of Grass
151
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Posted - 2017.05.18 17:03:38 -
[12] - Quote
Well, Plex are now sold by CCP by packs of 110/240/440 (with 0/20/60 more offered for the moment). A player who want to add 30 days in his account needs 500 of them. 440, it is less than before (1 Plex = 30 days) but for the same price.
So CCP stealthy raised the price, and the market is correcting itself. There isn't any "player driven market" in this situation, CCP is the responsible of that.
It was obvious it would be going up if the real price is going up too. Couldn't do anything else. It is a dangerous move for CCP, I doubt that an higher price in ISK won't "cost" some players. |
Alhira Katserna
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
2461
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Posted - 2017.05.18 17:03:44 -
[13] - Quote
Spc One wrote:Nah, i'll just stop playing for 12 months, lets see what happens in 1 year. if it's still more than 2.5mil i'll stop playing forever.
Can i haz you stuff? Just to watch over it for you, of course... |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
11092
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Posted - 2017.05.18 17:04:29 -
[14] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:I'm quite enjoying it even though it's making my in game expenses go up (it now costs 6 bil a month to plex my 4 accounts, 200 mil a day). I'm enjoying it because of all the crying that's coming from the entitled fools who don't understand that plex is a luxury and that no one (including CCP) owes anyone cheap plex. All the crying?
One thread and with five responses before you post your scathing indictment of the EVE player base. Out of how many hundreds of thousands of players?
Don't be such a drama queen.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
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Do Little
Virgin Plc Evictus.
1197
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Posted - 2017.05.18 17:09:13 -
[15] - Quote
Numbers from Eve Central are interesting. SELLING 2.89 M 5% / 3.22 M wavg / 3.00 M median (0.18 M units) BUYING 2.85 M 5% / 2.51 M wavg / 2.67 M median (1.76 M units)
10 times as many PLEX sold to buy orders as purchased from sell orders and buy/sell spread is essentially 0
It would seem that competition between buyers is driving up the price! |
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
15846
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Posted - 2017.05.18 17:09:43 -
[16] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:I'm quite enjoying it even though it's making my in game expenses go up (it now costs 6 bil a month to plex my 4 accounts, 200 mil a day). I'm enjoying it because of all the crying that's coming from the entitled fools who don't understand that plex is a luxury and that no one (including CCP) owes anyone cheap plex. All the crying? One thread and with five responses before you post your scathing indictment of the EVE player base. Out of how many hundreds of thousands of players? Don't be such a drama queen. Mr Epeen
You do know that there are other places than here right? Did I say "All the crying on the EVe General Discussion forum"? No, I said "all the crying", meaning just that, from multiple place/forums/ discord, teamspeak etc.
Dude, understand something, You don't like me and I sure as hell don't like your trolling butt so I expect some disagreement, but your ignorant nit picking of my posts isn't worthy of someone who claims to be an adult. At least try to get it right if you want to discuss something, and if you don't like what I'm saying (even after you do get it right), feel free to use the ignore function.
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Lulu Lunette
Savage Moon Society
1609
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Posted - 2017.05.18 17:15:08 -
[17] - Quote
The bottom line is CCP's bottom line benefits the most
@lunettelulu7
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Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
15846
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Posted - 2017.05.18 17:15:16 -
[18] - Quote
Don Pera Saissore wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:I'm quite enjoying it even though it's making my in game expenses go up (it now costs 6 bil a month to plex my 4 accounts, 200 mil a day). I'm enjoying it because of all the crying that's coming from the entitled fools who don't understand that plex is a luxury and that no one (including CCP) owes anyone cheap plex. Luxury? No. But a necessity. I dont expect plex to be cheap (when i say cheap i mean around 600 mil) but im not paying 1.5 bil even though i can afford way more than that. Get off your high horse, he is tired let him rest.
Case in point. No one owes you a certain plex price. Plex is a way for people with enough in game wealth to trade that wealth to others (usually people who are time poor or who hate in game wealth generating activities) in a mutually beneficial way. It's a slick move by CCP to combat golf farmers.
But it's not some kind of space-constitutional right. I'm not on a high horse, I'm on the common sense (which is generally lacking from society these days) horse.
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Loki Yamaguchi
Level 42 Industries
11
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Posted - 2017.05.18 17:35:12 -
[19] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Plex is a way for people with enough in game wealth to trade that wealth to others (usually people who are time poor or who hate in game wealth generating activities) in a mutually beneficial way.
PLEX for most is a goal; to play for free. At your level, sure you can play the wealth-trading game but for the vast majority of players, earning enough to PLEX your account is THE goal of EVE.
I'm borderline as to being able to PLEX my account but that's getting harder and harder as it's requiring more and more time to get the ISK together. I don't mind paying for game time but if the goal of PLEX'ing becomes unreachable with an acceptable time investment then EVE will have to be put aside. |
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
15847
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Posted - 2017.05.18 17:52:41 -
[20] - Quote
Loki Yamaguchi wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Plex is a way for people with enough in game wealth to trade that wealth to others (usually people who are time poor or who hate in game wealth generating activities) in a mutually beneficial way. PLEX for most is a goal; to play for free. At your level, sure you can play the wealth-trading game but for the vast majority of players, earning enough to PLEX your account is THE goal of EVE. I'm borderline as to being able to PLEX my account but that's getting harder and harder as it's requiring more and more time to get the ISK together. I don't mind paying for game time but if the goal of PLEX'ing becomes unreachable with an acceptable time investment then EVE will have to be put aside.
If someone lets "getting enough isk to buy plex to keep getting enough isk to buy plex" be their goal, couldn't they just buy a real life treadmill and be just as happy (and lose weight)?
It's no one's fault if people get it wrong about what a thing is, but they should expect some kind of magical intervention from the powers that be to help them keep that misunderstanding going.
The actual problem with plex is that plex was cheap enough that people could get it with just a few hours per month of PVE activities (which got them hooked on the idea that they could easily "play for free. Now that plex is approaching a more reasonable price level, the people who got hooked on cheap plex are reacting like cut off drug addicts.
This has happened with a lot of things in game, High sec lvl 5 missions, the original insane isk spewing incursions, 400 mil per hour FW missioning, Tracking Titan/Scimitar combined with the original frigless Forsaken Hubs in null sec that paid out 500+ bil per hour, high end wormhole farming that was even more insane till CCP nerfed them with Drifters etc etc. People get used to unbalanced advantages really quick and they always react strongly when you take them away. PLEX is actually just the latest examples.
One day this will also happen with skill injectors, and the withdrawals from that are going to be something to see. |
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Blade Darth
Room for Improvement Limited Expectations
138
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Posted - 2017.05.18 17:58:22 -
[21] - Quote
Not at all, happens always after a stock split or currency change.
"old" plex was over 1b, people looked at it and said "hmm 1b, that's a lot", Now it's a few million and you have to multiply by 500 so small difference of "0.2 mil", which is hard to see, adds up.
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David Therman
CAStabouts
180
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Posted - 2017.05.18 21:48:00 -
[22] - Quote
Well, it's easier to drop a bit of ISK into PLEX as an investment instead of forking out over a billion each time. Then there's the unification between old PLEX/Aurum into NuPlex (I believe that's the term) meaning that there's higher demand for PLEX due to ship skins/extractors e.t.c (the stuff that was previously covered by Aurum).
Finally I would imagine there's also a fair bit of speculation going on in regards to the upcoming secret auction for the AT, as well as what I've listed above.
So no reason to get the pitchforks out just yet |
Mike Azariah
The Scope Gallente Federation
3742
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Posted - 2017.05.18 22:15:01 -
[23] - Quote
/me shrugs.
I subscribe and the Bus only give out plex on special occasions so this is not a lake I have a boat in. Yes, things are more expensive . . . but all that triggers is a 'back when I was a kid . . . ' talk from us old players.
Inflation happens. In Eve, the economic system is a decent player driven microcosm and I would expect things to steadily grown more expensive. Thus, I am not sure what the whining is about unless it is the same whining I do when I go shopping for groceries or go to a bar and see current prices.
so I subscribe, I play, I enjoy the game
I am weird, that way
m
Mike Azariah Gö¼GöÇGöÇGö¼n++ ¯|(pâä)/¯
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Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
1191
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Posted - 2017.05.18 22:55:45 -
[24] - Quote
Dont be a leach pay for sub or sell plex and benefit from prices.
You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear
Because >>I is too hard
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Obsidian Blacke
Oberon Confederation
25
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Posted - 2017.05.18 23:46:46 -
[25] - Quote
Sky Marshal wrote:Well, Plex are now sold by CCP by packs of 110/240/440 (with 0/20/60 more offered for the moment). A player who want to add 30 days in his account needs 500 of them. 440, it is less than before (1 Plex = 30 days) but for the same price.
So CCP stealthy raised the price, and the market is correcting itself. There isn't any "player driven market" in this situation, CCP is the responsible of that.
It was obvious it would be going up if the real price is going up too. Couldn't do anything else. It is a dangerous move for CCP, I doubt that an higher price in ISK won't "cost" some players.
It's not "for the moment". Those are permanent. People are stupid. They don't math "good". So the "bonus" is CCPs way of telling people how much extra they get by buying in bulk. |
Algarion Getz
Aideron Corp
369
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Posted - 2017.05.19 00:10:52 -
[26] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Currently at 1.4-1.5bil.
Surprised? No. 2-3 mill per PLEX is much more accesible than 1+ bill per PLEX. Before the PLEX change, only the richer players could use PLEX as gold item, now everybody can. Demand has increased a lot.
There are traders who already had serveral trillions invested in PLEX before the change. These guys are now using ISK as toilet paper. |
HydrogenBond Shaishi
C-H-C
13
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Posted - 2017.05.19 03:15:05 -
[27] - Quote
nope that's why I bought a bunch before the patch. |
Salvos Rhoska
2922
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Posted - 2017.05.19 06:17:33 -
[28] - Quote
Im not surprised either. I expected a 2-300mil increase in the immediate aftermath. Calling it at 1.6bil by end of summer. Maybe even 1.8 bil by Chrstimas, depending on how the injector situation goes.
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March rabbit
Mosquito squadron The-Culture
2177
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Posted - 2017.05.19 07:18:10 -
[29] - Quote
Lulu Lunette wrote:The bottom line is CCP's bottom line benefits the most Not when they have no idea what to spend it for (read: VR and other 'funny' but 'dead right from the start' stuff).
To OP: yes, i am surprised that PLEX is skyrocketed. Actually i expected PLEX to get cheaper at least for some time: all these PLEX from nowhere (from aurum noone used)... But yeah, i'm always bad at market speculation so i'm not surprised that i failed.
The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
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Salvos Rhoska
2923
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Posted - 2017.05.19 07:24:27 -
[30] - Quote
Just yet another change that ended up screwing over the isk poor little guy.
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Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
33643
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Posted - 2017.05.19 07:25:43 -
[31] - Quote
Now demand is so big because every alpha want to have some piece of EVE's analogue of real life's gold. Every spare ISK laying around is converted for future and for those sweeeeet New Eden Store deals.
I am even thinking the contracts will include PLEX as the currency in some rare deals.
ߦçߦáߦç-Ç-ŠߦÿߦÇ-Çߦ¢ ߦÅ-ô ß¦Ç +óߦÇߦìߦç -£ß¦ç-ƒß¦ÿs ߦ¢ß¦Å ߦ¢ß¦ç-ƒ-ƒ ß¦Ç sߦ¢ß¦Å-Ç-Å =ƒôò
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Xianax
Nordic Hawks
0
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Posted - 2017.05.19 07:36:04 -
[32] - Quote
The price increase bothered me till I found an activity that got met 700 mil in 3 hours. I plan on doing this all day on saturday to Plex both my accounts for the next at least 2 months. I also need to get dual training going on to set up both my accounts with full PI abilities to supplement my income as I prepare for Nullsec. |
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
1634
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Posted - 2017.05.19 07:40:38 -
[33] - Quote
I subscribe. EVE is a hobby. Plexing EVE feels like a second job to me. No need of that.
It's a solid investment though. Plex was at 200m when I started playing 6 years ago. So it's been up 200-250m on average each year.
Remove standings and insurance.
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JC Mieyli
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
19
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Posted - 2017.05.19 07:42:28 -
[34] - Quote
Spc One wrote:Nah, i'll just stop playing for 12 months, lets see what happens in 1 year. if it's still more than 2.5mil i'll stop playing forever. well it will be more than 2.5 in a year look at the inflation on plex since it first came out |
Salvos Rhoska
2923
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Posted - 2017.05.19 08:02:22 -
[35] - Quote
Injector price hasnt reacted in proportion yet.
Buy those as an investment instead.
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Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
33650
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Posted - 2017.05.19 10:03:48 -
[36] - Quote
High sec is where the fun and future is, Null sec will be full of no lifes that will grind all the time and blueballing themselves to the boring end.
ߦçߦáߦç-Ç-ŠߦÿߦÇ-Çߦ¢ ߦÅ-ô ß¦Ç +óߦÇߦìߦç -£ß¦ç-ƒß¦ÿs ߦ¢ß¦Å ߦ¢ß¦ç-ƒ-ƒ ß¦Ç sߦ¢ß¦Å-Ç-Å =ƒôò
ߦí-£ß¦ç-Çߦç +¬s ߦÇ+¦+ó-Ç-ŠߦäߦÅ+¦ß¦äߦÅ-Çߦà +óߦ£-Šߦí-£ß¦ç+¦ -ÅߦÅߦ£ +¦ß¦çߦçߦà -£+¬ß¦ì
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Don Pera Saissore
133
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Posted - 2017.05.19 11:38:41 -
[37] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote: Caveat: If NS recruits really hard, some of that attrition may be retained as players potentially find the means to PLEX via NS activity/income, but this will be at most some few %.
I strongly encourage everyone to consider moving into NS or established WH corps this summer. Its "that time" now to make the move.
HS/LS and low WH content income is not going to be adequate to PLEX without a great deal of activity ingame earning. The isk is in NS and WHs, and to an extent, LS if you play hard.
Sending players in to null to grind isk wont help with the retention, they wil quit as soon as they realise that its a crappy job. I also strongly disagree with your claim that lowsex cant provide enough income for a normal healthy lifestile. |
Steijn
Quay Industries
1104
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Posted - 2017.05.19 13:18:15 -
[38] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Currently at 1.4-1.5bil.
Surprised?
nope not surprised at all.
What it means for me is i'll just stop playing and let my accounts go dormant again as anything above 1.2bn just makes the game seem like a job and wheres the fun in that. |
Nicolai Serkanner
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
693
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Posted - 2017.05.19 13:47:20 -
[39] - Quote
Matthias Ancaladron wrote:No I said this week's ago that prices would skyrocket. Just wait for them to reach 4mil per Plex.
Theyre making it impossible for newer characters to Plex. There should have been a 1b ceiling implemented to prevent this.
Bollocks.
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Steijn
Quay Industries
1104
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Posted - 2017.05.19 14:32:31 -
[40] - Quote
Nicolai Serkanner wrote:Matthias Ancaladron wrote:No I said this week's ago that prices would skyrocket. Just wait for them to reach 4mil per Plex.
Theyre making it impossible for newer characters to Plex. There should have been a 1b ceiling implemented to prevent this. Bollocks.
which part is bollocks? |
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Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
11105
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Posted - 2017.05.19 14:42:28 -
[41] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:No "EVE IS DYING", but I think this may be the worst summer yet for EVE, and the tipping point towards an accelerated decline in activity. I tend to play less, if at all, during the summer. That coupled with the PLEX increase has led me to test out this claimed ghost training.
I have four Omegas that I'm going to let lapse in the next few weeks with training queues between 20 days and nearly a year. But I'll check in at the end of Aug and see what PLEX has stabilized at. I'll keep my two builders in Omega but I rarely log them in as they're primarily building capitals and only need to looked at once or twice a month.
So yeah. No "EVE Is Dying", but for me anyway, EVE is taking a back burner for a while.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
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Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
15858
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Posted - 2017.05.19 15:07:49 -
[42] - Quote
Steijn wrote:Nicolai Serkanner wrote:Matthias Ancaladron wrote:No I said this week's ago that prices would skyrocket. Just wait for them to reach 4mil per Plex.
Theyre making it impossible for newer characters to Plex. There should have been a 1b ceiling implemented to prevent this. Bollocks. which part is bollocks?
He can speak for himself, but for me it's the whole idea of an artificial ceiling. PLEX should cost what people in game will pay for it, because EVE has a PLAYER RUN economy and that should not change because you want cheap PLEX to keep from hainvg to spend the 50 cents USD per day it takes to play EVE.
---
Everytime Plex changes you get these crazy examples of how 'off' and 'entitled' some EVE players are. You got people sitting on hundreds of billions of isk and assets loudly proclaiming that they are cutting back on EVE because of the price of plex, you get freak outs all over the place, "the plex is too damn high" memes on reddit, and all of this over an ingame item that right now costs 46 million isk per day per account
One of my characters flying an Ishtar and doing anomalies makes 60 mil isk in an hour of me barely watching the screen. A Carrier in null take s more work but makes money 3+ times faster than that ishtar. If you live in high sec and get set up right, following this burner mission guide will let you buy 720 hours (one month) of game time in exchange for 7.2 hours of game play.
Thats right, 1% of a month for a full month of video game...because you're too cheap to spend 50 real life cents per day (the actual cost of EVE online at it's most expensive month by month rate) for said video game. Hell, 46 mil isk per day is like 2 or 3 lvl 4 missions and then selling the lp for something cheap like 500 isk per LP...
You guys telling me that 2 or 3 lvl 4 missions (5-15 minutes if you learn how to blitz) a day is somehow a bridge too far for 24 hours worth of game time?
I think some folks need to reexamine their priorities and their perspectives, because something in there is screwed up if plex prices are bothering you. |
Gustav Mannfred
Summer of Mumuit
164
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Posted - 2017.05.19 15:19:37 -
[43] - Quote
The advantage of the new system is that ccp can easily reduce plex cost for omega time when the price goes out of controll. Wouldnt be surprised when omega time will cost 300 plex instead of 500 in some time
i'm REALY miss the old stuff.-á
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=24183
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Inactive Seller
Hedion University Amarr Empire
22
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Posted - 2017.05.19 15:30:43 -
[44] - Quote
Don Pera Saissore wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote: Caveat: If NS recruits really hard, some of that attrition may be retained as players potentially find the means to PLEX via NS activity/income, but this will be at most some few %.
I strongly encourage everyone to consider moving into NS or established WH corps this summer. Its "that time" now to make the move.
HS/LS and low WH content income is not going to be adequate to PLEX without a great deal of activity ingame earning. The isk is in NS and WHs, and to an extent, LS if you play hard.
Sending players in to null to grind isk wont help with the retention, they wil quit as soon as they realise that its a crappy job. I also strongly disagree with your claim that lowsex cant provide enough income for a normal healthy lifestile.
i agrree with both points. If u have many characteres, high sec is the option for some, and not grind more in nul..
Selling some inactive pilots ...Goal for final phase : 18 pilots at 2017-jun-30 at the moment 32 pilots
High sec is where the fun and future is, people who pay subscription with real money. Null sec will be full of no lifes that will grind.
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Zanar Skwigelf
Boa Innovations Brothers of Tangra
193
|
Posted - 2017.05.19 16:27:25 -
[45] - Quote
Wasn't PLEX consumption the natural end point of rorq mining to build a super and then ratting in your super? 300m/hr and the only thing ratters do is buy PLEX and deadspace/officer equipment. |
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
33666
|
Posted - 2017.05.19 16:43:11 -
[46] - Quote
And the price will go higher and higher and higher, because they will get more and more and more ISK, and they will buy more and more and more PLEX, that will cost more and more and more ISK.
Untill price willl level out on a ridiculous level that will basically make people watch it and tell: what did I become? What happened to my life? Why?
ߦçߦáߦç-Ç-ŠߦÿߦÇ-Çߦ¢ ߦÅ-ô ß¦Ç +óߦÇߦìߦç -£ß¦ç-ƒß¦ÿs ߦ¢ß¦Å ߦ¢ß¦ç-ƒ-ƒ ß¦Ç sߦ¢ß¦Å-Ç-Å =ƒôò
ߦí-£ß¦ç-Çߦç +¬s ߦÇ+¦+ó-Ç-ŠߦäߦÅ+¦ß¦äߦÅ-Çߦà +óߦ£-Šߦí-£ß¦ç+¦ -ÅߦÅߦ£ +¦ß¦çߦçߦà -£+¬ß¦ì
ߦÅsߦÿ-Çߦç-Å =ƒÜÇ
GëíGïüGëí GÖÑ
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Inactive Seller
Hedion University Amarr Empire
22
|
Posted - 2017.05.19 16:51:52 -
[47] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:And the price will go higher and higher and higher, because they will get more and more and more ISK, and they will buy more and more and more PLEX, that will cost more and more and more ISK. Untill price willl level out on a ridiculous level that will basically make people watch it and tell: what did I become? What happened to my life? Why?
Your past comment about null and hi sec make me think myself in shrink to six accounts, are the only ones i need in high sec.
Selling some inactive pilots ...Goal for final phase : 18 pilots at 2017-jun-30 at the moment 32 pilots
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Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6479
|
Posted - 2017.05.19 17:08:50 -
[48] - Quote
Matthias Ancaladron wrote:No I said this week's ago that prices would skyrocket. Just wait for them to reach 4mil per Plex.
Theyre making it impossible for newer characters to Plex. There should have been a 1b ceiling implemented to prevent this.
PLEX for new players are so that they can acquire ISK without the horrible grind, not to play for "free".
Why is it every EVE player gets opportunity cost when it comes to "I mine my own minerals" but totally fail in applying that logic everywhere else?
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
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Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6479
|
Posted - 2017.05.19 17:10:37 -
[49] - Quote
Don Pera Saissore wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:I'm quite enjoying it even though it's making my in game expenses go up (it now costs 6 bil a month to plex my 4 accounts, 200 mil a day). I'm enjoying it because of all the crying that's coming from the entitled fools who don't understand that plex is a luxury and that no one (including CCP) owes anyone cheap plex. Luxury? No. But a necessity. I dont expect plex to be cheap (when i say cheap i mean around 600 mil) but im not paying 1.5 bil even though i can afford way more than that. Get off your high horse, he is tired let him rest.
PLEX as a necessity yet you refuse to buy one. Whatever.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
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Vortexo VonBrenner
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
2868
|
Posted - 2017.05.19 17:16:46 -
[50] - Quote
Spc One wrote:Nah, i'll just stop playing for 12 months, lets see what happens in 1 year. if it's still more than 2.5mil i'll stop playing forever. Well then, you might as well quit now if that's going to be your redline...because the price of PLEX is not going to go in a downward direction (has it ever over time?) I'd love to have your stuff since you won't be needing it.
EvE security zones in pictures
EvE quick reference pdf
EvE links
|
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Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6479
|
Posted - 2017.05.19 17:25:03 -
[51] - Quote
Sky Marshal wrote:Well, Plex are now sold by CCP by packs of 110/240/440 (with 0/20/60 more offered for the moment). A player who want to add 30 days in his account needs 500 of them. 440, it is less than before (1 Plex = 30 days) but for the same price.
So CCP stealthy raised the price, and the market is correcting itself. There isn't any "player driven market" in this situation, CCP is the responsible of that.
It was obvious it would be going up if the real price is going up too. Couldn't do anything else. It is a dangerous move for CCP, I doubt that an higher price in ISK won't "cost" some players.
CCP is the supplier....players are the consumers--i.e. the demand side. You cannot have a market without both sides. So it is driven by both...but that aside, you are largely correct. The previous $ to ISK conversion was around 62,531,265.6. You need to buy 4.545454 of the 110 PLEX Packs at $4.99 which translates out to $22.68 which when we convert it back to ISK works out to roughly 1,418,322,797.76 ISK.
I have never understood the "PLEX are too expensive I'm quitting!" Response. The cheapest way to to pay for an account is to buy a year in advance where the costs is something like $11/month. So people grind for hours on end so that they can pay $19.99/month before the change and now $21-23/month after the change. I could see it if you really like grinding, but otherwise yet another failure in applying the notion of opportunity cost. When you buy a PLEX you are converting the time you spend playing the game and earning ISK into a PLEX. If you have a ton of ISK or have a substantial income stream I can see buying a PLEX. But active grinding for hours on end? Even if you can make 300 million ISK/hour you'll have to spend 4 2/3rd to 5 hours grinding. Look at your after tax take home pay on an hourly basis. If it is more than $4.2 or unless you love that grinding....your kinda mining your own minerals.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
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Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6482
|
Posted - 2017.05.19 17:36:27 -
[52] - Quote
Matthias Ancaladron wrote:No I said this week's ago that prices would skyrocket. Just wait for them to reach 4mil per Plex.
Theyre making it impossible for newer characters to Plex. There should have been a 1b ceiling implemented to prevent this.
Yes, because not having any PLEX is sooo much better.
Please don't go full idiot.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
|
Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6482
|
Posted - 2017.05.19 17:41:30 -
[53] - Quote
Loki Yamaguchi wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Plex is a way for people with enough in game wealth to trade that wealth to others (usually people who are time poor or who hate in game wealth generating activities) in a mutually beneficial way. PLEX for most is a goal; to play for free.
Yes, I stopped reading there. Paying with PLEX is not playing for free, especially if you have to grind. Back up stream there is a guy who is going to trade an entire Saturday so he can buy enough PLEX for 2 months. Now maybe that is his idea of a good Saturday, but chances are he makes enough in 1 hour of work to pay for both months if he used a subscription at the yearly level. That way he'd have those 2 months paid for AND he could have his Saturday back to do some other stuff too.
The only way to play the game for free is to go ALPHA. Other than that you are paying. Either in cash or via your time.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
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Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
11111
|
Posted - 2017.05.19 17:53:12 -
[54] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Loki Yamaguchi wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Plex is a way for people with enough in game wealth to trade that wealth to others (usually people who are time poor or who hate in game wealth generating activities) in a mutually beneficial way. PLEX for most is a goal; to play for free. Yes, I stopped reading there. Paying with PLEX is not playing for free, especially if you have to grind. Back up stream there is a guy who is going to trade an entire Saturday so he can buy enough PLEX for 2 months. Now maybe that is his idea of a good Saturday, but chances are he makes enough in 1 hour of work to pay for both months if he used a subscription at the yearly level. That way he'd have those 2 months paid for AND he could have his Saturday back to do some other stuff too. The only way to play the game for free is to go ALPHA. Other than that you are paying. Either in cash or via your time. I certainly agree that paying with PLEX is not playing for free.
But I'm of two minds about comparing paying with grinding in real life or paying with grinding in game. It really depends on how much you enjoy whatever it is you do to collect that ISK. For instance, I'd rather run missions or whatever for a day than pull an extra shift shoveling **** at the zoo.
On the other hand, I'd rather work a few hours overtime giving erotic massages than sitting in an ice belt spamming d-scan for two solid days.
I guess what I'm saying is it's not such a good comparison when it's so situational. You can't really generalize.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
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Vortexo VonBrenner
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
2870
|
Posted - 2017.05.19 18:09:16 -
[55] - Quote
Erotic massages at the Zoo what? I maybe should train reading comp past 1.
EvE security zones in pictures
EvE quick reference pdf
EvE links
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Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
15864
|
Posted - 2017.05.19 18:17:55 -
[56] - Quote
I don't have multiple in game income streams, I enjoy ratting and doing complexes. Sometimes after plexing I might have like 2-300 mil in my wallet, or less. People think I'm rich but the in game value thing says my 5 accounts amount to less than 25 billion isk after 10 years of playing (because I spend isk like its going out of style and i blow up a lot).
The difference between me and folks like me and the people who lose their damn minds every time something happens with plex is that I KNOW plex is a luxury and act accordingly. I know it's only going to go up while my ratting income stays the same (or declines like with DED loot)
Because I know plex is unstable and a luxury I don't own more accounts than I could pay for with real life cash if something happens to PLEX. Right at the moment I can plop down the 60 bucks it would take to keep my accounts in Omega, and if something happened where I could not do that, regardless of the cost of plex I'd start shedding accounts. That's how i personally do it and I don't expect anyone else to, but it's damn stupid to depend on plex when you know it's not stable.
---
There is , of course, a real life correlation that comes to mind. 22 years ago I worked at a County Jail. The jail didn't have enough jailers, so there was plenty of overtime. Too much in fact. Jailers were working doubles (16 hours) and even TRIPLES (24 hours) before the overtime policy changed due to one jailer falling dead from a heart attack he suffered while working his 2nd triple in one week.
In the orientation class the instructor said "there will be lots of overtime, but never forget that OT is a luxury, it's extra money, it lets you pay off bills faster and maybe pay for a better vacation than what you had last year. But it is not your salary, you are not entitled to it, the County can come in at any moment and cut it off, and it's automatically gets cut off if you take sick leave or come under investigation for something. Do not ever let yourself become dependent on it."
Most people listened. But some didn't. Some used it to buy nice cars, big ass trucks (it's Texas of course), fancy things, jewelry, even a bigger house than what they could normally afford...
...Then OF COURSE the County decided it was spending too much money and hired more jailers since that is less expensive than overtime. And it all came crashing down. Within a couple months the department had to station a Deputy at the employee parking lot to keep all the repo trucks out. People lost their nice homes they should never have bought. And fights broke out between veteran kailers and recruit jailers, because of course it was the new recruits' fault the vet jailers grew dependent on overtime they were told to not become dependent on. The department's employee mental health section got swamped by people in crisis because they couldn't pay their bills and/or their significant other was threatening to leave with the kids (or worse, with the big ass truck).
That taught me a lesson: don't live above my means, and don't depend on a luxury something that can go away or change at a moments notice for essential needs.
Apply that to EVE and plex and I bet some of yall will be less upset the next time the plex prices change. |
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
15864
|
Posted - 2017.05.19 18:32:30 -
[57] - Quote
Oh, and just a flashback, if anyone else thinks people complaining about the cost of plex and game time etc is silly, well I remember the time that this actually happened here |
KaarBaak
Squirrel Team
428
|
Posted - 2017.05.19 18:59:45 -
[58] - Quote
Vortexo VonBrenner wrote:Erotic massages at the Zoo what? I maybe should train reading comp past 1.
This thread just took an interesting turn...
Dum Spiro Spero
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Tricia Killnu
The Horn
4
|
Posted - 2017.05.19 19:16:06 -
[59] - Quote
Vortexo VonBrenner wrote:Erotic massages at the Zoo what? I maybe should train reading comp past 1.
Send me Isk ingame and I will make this dream a reality
1 bil an hour for the best wettest sloppiest erotic zoo massage of your lifetime!!!!!
I will even double and if your really lucky quadruple that isk!!!!!!
Sometimes you just have to realized you undocked and you suck. . .
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Vortexo VonBrenner
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
2870
|
Posted - 2017.05.19 19:21:26 -
[60] - Quote
Tricia Killnu wrote:Vortexo VonBrenner wrote:Erotic massages at the Zoo what? I maybe should train reading comp past 1.
Send me Isk ingame and I will make this dream a reality 1 bil an hour for the best wettest sloppiest erotic zoo massage of your lifetime!!!!! I will even double and if your really lucky quadruple that isk!!!!!! SUH-WEET! It's my lucky day! I'm gonna be spacerich and in furry bliss! I...I love you.
EvE security zones in pictures
EvE quick reference pdf
EvE links
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Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
11114
|
Posted - 2017.05.19 19:32:01 -
[61] - Quote
Vortexo VonBrenner wrote:Tricia Killnu wrote:Vortexo VonBrenner wrote:Erotic massages at the Zoo what? I maybe should train reading comp past 1.
Send me Isk ingame and I will make this dream a reality 1 bil an hour for the best wettest sloppiest erotic zoo massage of your lifetime!!!!! I will even double and if your really lucky quadruple that isk!!!!!! SUH-WEET! It's my lucky day! I'm gonna be spacerich and in furry bliss! I...I love you. I do manage to inadvertently derail threads on occasion, don't I?
Not intentional, I can assure you.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
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Vampyr
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2017.05.19 20:08:17 -
[62] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:I'm quite enjoying it even though it's making my in game expenses go up (it now costs 6 bil a month to plex my 4 accounts, 200 mil a day). I'm enjoying it because of all the crying that's coming from the entitled fools who don't understand that plex is a luxury and that no one (including CCP) owes anyone cheap plex. All the crying? One thread with five responses before you post your scathing indictment of the EVE player base. Out of how many hundreds of thousands of players? Don't be such a drama queen. Mr Epeen
You think EVE has 'hundreds of thousands' of players? |
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
33675
|
Posted - 2017.05.19 20:48:24 -
[63] - Quote
Vampyr wrote:Mr Epeen wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:I'm quite enjoying it even though it's making my in game expenses go up (it now costs 6 bil a month to plex my 4 accounts, 200 mil a day). I'm enjoying it because of all the crying that's coming from the entitled fools who don't understand that plex is a luxury and that no one (including CCP) owes anyone cheap plex. All the crying? One thread with five responses before you post your scathing indictment of the EVE player base. Out of how many hundreds of thousands of players? Don't be such a drama queen. Mr Epeen You think EVE has 'hundreds of thousands' of players? It had last time they said how much subscribers they had. But it was long time ago, when active players numbers were around 50k in the peak activity hours. When f2p was ridiculed and nearly everyone was saying it will never happen.
ߦçߦáߦç-Ç-ŠߦÿߦÇ-Çߦ¢ ߦÅ-ô ß¦Ç +óߦÇߦìߦç -£ß¦ç-ƒß¦ÿs ߦ¢ß¦Å ߦ¢ß¦ç-ƒ-ƒ ß¦Ç sߦ¢ß¦Å-Ç-Å =ƒôò
ߦí-£ß¦ç-Çߦç +¬s ߦÇ+¦+ó-Ç-ŠߦäߦÅ+¦ß¦äߦÅ-Çߦà +óߦ£-Šߦí-£ß¦ç+¦ -ÅߦÅߦ£ +¦ß¦çߦçߦà -£+¬ß¦ì
ߦÅsߦÿ-Çߦç-Å =ƒÜÇ
GëíGïüGëí GÖÑ
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Nicolai Serkanner
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
694
|
Posted - 2017.05.19 21:01:32 -
[64] - Quote
Vampyr wrote:Mr Epeen wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:I'm quite enjoying it even though it's making my in game expenses go up (it now costs 6 bil a month to plex my 4 accounts, 200 mil a day). I'm enjoying it because of all the crying that's coming from the entitled fools who don't understand that plex is a luxury and that no one (including CCP) owes anyone cheap plex. All the crying? One thread with five responses before you post your scathing indictment of the EVE player base. Out of how many hundreds of thousands of players? Don't be such a drama queen. Mr Epeen You think EVE has 'hundreds of thousands' of players?
Paid for accounts. |
Tika Mishunga Cannis
Area-52 La Federacion.
0
|
Posted - 2017.05.19 23:04:03 -
[65] - Quote
The plex is too much for me. Unfortunately I will happen to be a casual player. And my other accounts will go to standby. There are too many factors in this game that will not let you do ISK. Wars and removals. |
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
3036
|
Posted - 2017.05.20 00:20:12 -
[66] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Caveat: If NS recruits really hard, some of that attrition may be retained as players potentially find the means to PLEX via NS activity/income, but this will be at most some few %.
I strongly encourage everyone to consider moving into NS or established WH corps this summer. Its "that time" now to make the move.
HS/LS and low WH content income is not going to be adequate to PLEX without a great deal of activity ingame earning. The isk is in NS and WHs, and to an extent, LS if you play hard. if people go to null/wh and start farming more that just shoots the plex price even higher, OPE, bounties, and blue loot inject a ton of isk into the game.
selling officer BCUs! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6872141
@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
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Salvos Rhoska
2929
|
Posted - 2017.05.20 06:51:55 -
[67] - Quote
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Caveat: If NS recruits really hard, some of that attrition may be retained as players potentially find the means to PLEX via NS activity/income, but this will be at most some few %.
I strongly encourage everyone to consider moving into NS or established WH corps this summer. Its "that time" now to make the move.
HS/LS and low WH content income is not going to be adequate to PLEX without a great deal of activity ingame earning. The isk is in NS and WHs, and to an extent, LS if you play hard. if people go to null/wh and start farming more that just shoots the plex price even higher, OPE, bounties, and blue loot inject a ton of isk into the game.
Yes.
But look at market reports on isk introduction in NS as is.
The higher PLEX price rises, the more incentive there is to move to the rich farming fields of NS.
I will finally make the move to NS this summer. Tbh should have made the jump ages ago. Hopefully I wont get completely destroyed there by people Ive pissed off here on the boards! :D
PvE v PvP
<>
Old School Exploration
<>
CODE Licenses
<>
CODE Special Agent
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Beta Maoye
156
|
Posted - 2017.05.20 08:46:40 -
[68] - Quote
Before plex change, players need at least 1B to push the ingame market price up 0.01 isk. but now players need only 0.003B to push the price up 0.01 isk. It has never been easier to move the price. The cost of buy-low-sell-high game is so low that the price can be pushed up to a ridiculous level before the bubble collapse. |
Artemis Ellery Sazas
Shock and Awe Inc.
103
|
Posted - 2017.05.20 09:43:23 -
[69] - Quote
It costs me $21/month for a 3 month sub after currency conversion. I used to be able to toss in 3 or 4 PLEX over the span of a year, to make my gaming time a little cheaper.
I am a casual player, the kind of player CCP would rather ignore and wishes would go away. I am not a rich player either, so yearly or 6 month subs are out for me. To be able to PLEX my account once every 3 or 4 months, even at 1.2 bil, I have to give up some of the things I enjoy, like low sec pvp.
At the current rate PLEX is rising, almost 1.5 bil, and the fact subbing my account with RL money is quite expensive (for a game), it's a hard choice for sure. I have cancelled my accounts for the summer at least, hoping PLEX will at least stabilize or my exchange rate gets better, though neither look very optimistic.
It's just sad that the PLEX price has become so volatile and I will predict it will have negative results for the game, especially with casual players like myself. |
Kisar
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2017.05.20 11:01:53 -
[70] - Quote
I too may cancel some accounts. The price of PLEX is ridiculous now since the change.
It's no doubt caused by how easy CCP have made it to buy and hoarde market PLEX due to the smallest unit now being just 2-3 million isk. Players buying and hoarding PLEX so they could sell it for more later has always been a problem with causing inflated PLEX prices and now with smaller units making it far easier to do, they've made the problem even worse.
Probably going to cost them players if it's not resolved soon. |
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Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
3998
|
Posted - 2017.05.20 11:34:10 -
[71] - Quote
Vampyr wrote: You think EVE has 'hundreds of thousands' of players?
Statistically EVE has somewhere between 200k & 300k players. Average accounts per player is about 1.5 per CCP's released stats a year or so ago, and per their financial reports they have somewhere between 300k & 400k accounts, people crunched numbers. So yes actually, EVE does.
If memory serves CCP at some point also released information which indicated that only about 10% of accounts paid by plex. Was somewhere around the same time as they released the stats on how many times a plex typically changed hands before actually getting used. |
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
15869
|
Posted - 2017.05.20 18:48:08 -
[72] - Quote
Kisar wrote:
Probably going to hit their account numbers if they don't do something to stabilize PLEX prices.
People who use plex for game time tend to over estimate how many people do the same. The last time CCP told us about it, it was less than 10%. Same for multiboxers, most people don't have multiple accounts so people shedding alt accounts wouldn't hurt much.
PLEX changes/price rises are in this way just like ISBoxer, many a isbox multiboxer predicted that EVE's pcu and sub numbers would take a hit if they banned isboxer, but that never happened, because despite the visibility of those guys (like the guy who could solo incursions), they were really only a very small part of the population.
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Algarion Getz
Aideron Corp
384
|
Posted - 2017.05.21 00:48:19 -
[73] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Kisar wrote:
Probably going to hit their account numbers if they don't do something to stabilize PLEX prices.
People who use plex for game time tend to over estimate how many people do the same. The last time CCP told us about it, it was less than 10%. Same for multiboxers, most people don't have multiple accounts so people shedding alt accounts wouldn't hurt much. PLEX changes/price rises are in this way just like ISBoxer, many a isbox multiboxer predicted that EVE's pcu and sub numbers would take a hit if they banned isboxer, but that never happened, because despite the visibility of those guys (like the guy who could solo incursions), they were really only a very small part of the population. When did CCP say this? I find it hard to believe. EVE with just 1 account must be so tedious. No scanner, no scout, no hauler, no neutral, no salvager, no booster, ... How can you even do anything effectively?
From what i have seen, EVE players love alts. Even for simple or silly tasks. I have seen people create alts just because they wanted a capspray (a cheap, expendable osprey giving them cap at all times).
What was the saying again ... somthing like: EVE is played by 12 people and their alts. |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
11139
|
Posted - 2017.05.21 01:04:00 -
[74] - Quote
Algarion Getz wrote: When did CCP say this?
Way before the Alpha/Omega release.
You'll likely need to wait for the next fanfest to get legitimate statistics for this year. And then you get to watch the forum explode as various personalities try to spin it to suit their agenda.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
|
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
15870
|
Posted - 2017.05.21 03:44:00 -
[75] - Quote
Algarion Getz wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Kisar wrote:
Probably going to hit their account numbers if they don't do something to stabilize PLEX prices.
People who use plex for game time tend to over estimate how many people do the same. The last time CCP told us about it, it was less than 10%. Same for multiboxers, most people don't have multiple accounts so people shedding alt accounts wouldn't hurt much. PLEX changes/price rises are in this way just like ISBoxer, many a isbox multiboxer predicted that EVE's pcu and sub numbers would take a hit if they banned isboxer, but that never happened, because despite the visibility of those guys (like the guy who could solo incursions), they were really only a very small part of the population. When did CCP say this? I find it hard to believe. EVE with just 1 account must be so tedious. No scanner, no scout, no hauler, no neutral, no salvager, no booster, ... How can you even do anything effectively? From what i have seen, EVE players love alts. Even for simple or silly tasks. I have seen people create alts just because they wanted a capspray (a cheap, expendable osprey giving them cap at all times). What was the saying again ... somthing like: EVE is played by 12 people and their alts.
http://targetcaller.blogspot.com/2015/09/players-and-accounts-courtesy-of-ccp.html
I can't find the fanfest presentation with the plex thing, ill keep looking. But 2/3rds of EVE payes have only 1 account and 94% of players have 3 or fewer accounts. I have 4 accounts (5 if you count the one I let lapse and don't use) which puts me in the 6% with more than 3.
But I didn't need CCP Quant to tell me that most players don't multibox at all, its easy to see if you don't look at people as if they are all the same as you. I multibox because I too think EVE can be really tedious without alts, but that's me, I know many people don't play like I do.
EVE is not 12 people and their alts, it's a couple hundred thousand people and 12 guys who think those other people are alts. |
Mr Mieyli
Hedion University Amarr Empire
620
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Posted - 2017.05.21 14:48:57 -
[76] - Quote
Beta Maoye wrote:Before plex change, players need at least 1B to push the ingame market price up 0.01 isk. but now players need only 0.003B to push the price up 0.01 isk. It has never been easier to move the price. The cost of buy-low-sell-high game is so low that the price can be pushed up to a ridiculous level before the bubble collapse.
Linked to this is the fact that plex prices are rising largely because people expect them to rise. Any slack in the demand side of the equation is filled by investors who expect more isk in return later down the line. I doubt it is possible for plex to naturally come down in price even if supply was way over demand.
I said earlier people would rather work jobs than play eve, it seems most of the replies actually agree with this statement. Only a few have noticed that earning isk in a game can actually be fun and so some people might prefer that instead of working extra hours at their job. The high plex prices to me indicate few people are willing to trade their farmed isk for gametime, and on the flipside equally many people would rather work IRL than play eve.
A case for more AoE in EvE
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Blade Darth
Room for Improvement Limited Expectations
154
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Posted - 2017.05.21 15:40:42 -
[77] - Quote
It says something about the game when you would rather work then play it XDDD
Omen Navy Issue Tutorial
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Demica Diaz
SE-1
419
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Posted - 2017.05.21 16:58:16 -
[78] - Quote
No supprise there. Happens in every game that does this kind of thing. Warcraft's token cost 20k last expansion. Now price is 250k. Same happens to EVE, though not as fast. Overall it comes down to players will to pay ingame money to extrent their sub. When that becomes impossible, I suspect that many quit the game rather than go back to real money subscription. But I base it on my own and long list of friends experience with WoW and a bit of EVE, so not exact science here.
Overall I hope CCP keeps game "worth to pay to play" on casual level or else none but hardcore fans be logging in. |
Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6491
|
Posted - 2017.05.21 20:22:09 -
[79] - Quote
Vampyr wrote:Mr Epeen wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:I'm quite enjoying it even though it's making my in game expenses go up (it now costs 6 bil a month to plex my 4 accounts, 200 mil a day). I'm enjoying it because of all the crying that's coming from the entitled fools who don't understand that plex is a luxury and that no one (including CCP) owes anyone cheap plex. All the crying? One thread with five responses before you post your scathing indictment of the EVE player base. Out of how many hundreds of thousands of players? Don't be such a drama queen. Mr Epeen You think EVE has 'hundreds of thousands' of players?
If the average number of players logging in over the course of the day is say 25,000 that suggests that yes, there are hundreds of thousands of players. Crude "Bubba" math would suggest an upper bound of around 600,000. Note I used the term upper bound. Based on this I would not be surprised if there are 300,000-400,000 subscribers that pay in some fashion.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
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Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6491
|
Posted - 2017.05.21 20:25:41 -
[80] - Quote
Beta Maoye wrote:Before plex change, players need at least 1B to push the ingame market price up 0.01 isk. but now players need only 0.003B to push the price up 0.01 isk. It has never been easier to move the price. The cost of buy-low-sell-high game is so low that the price can be pushed up to a ridiculous level before the bubble collapse.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
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JC Mieyli
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
33
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Posted - 2017.05.21 20:32:26 -
[81] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Beta Maoye wrote:Before plex change, players need at least 1B to push the ingame market price up 0.01 isk. but now players need only 0.003B to push the price up 0.01 isk. It has never been easier to move the price. The cost of buy-low-sell-high game is so low that the price can be pushed up to a ridiculous level before the bubble collapse. its how the inflation conspiracy works were all in on it for a fee of 500m i can get you in on it too |
Shallanna Yassavi
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
536
|
Posted - 2017.05.23 09:20:03 -
[82] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Kisar wrote:
Probably going to hit their account numbers if they don't do something to stabilize PLEX prices.
People who use plex for game time tend to over estimate how many people do the same. The last time CCP told us about it, it was less than 10%. Same for multiboxers, most people don't have multiple accounts so people shedding alt accounts wouldn't hurt much. PLEX changes/price rises are in this way just like ISBoxer, many a isbox multiboxer predicted that EVE's pcu and sub numbers would take a hit if they banned isboxer, but that never happened, because despite the visibility of those guys (like the guy who could solo incursions), they were really only a very small part of the population. I heard lots of the alts were repurposed into injector farms.
A signature :o
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Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
33906
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Posted - 2017.05.23 09:39:54 -
[83] - Quote
People had alts and they used to PLEX those accounts, so as PLEX prices were steadily going up and PLEXing them was harder, and CCP decided to monetize on delivering SP extractors, they extracted those SP and sold it, to buy more PLEX for less account, PLEXing into the future, to the moon and back again. They can now play Omega clones for free, for like.... ever?
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KaarBaak
Squirrel Team
430
|
Posted - 2017.05.24 16:21:38 -
[84] - Quote
As the F2P bubble finally subsides and we move back into the lower (steadily declining) concurrent player population, it will be interesting to see the net effect of both changes on prices and gameplay.
I believe the math dictates that the net effect on CCPs bottom-line has to be "not good." If the number of concurrent players is the same as it was prior to F2P being introduced, and a portion of those current players are just on Alphas, the total paying population has to have taken a significant hit.
The microtransactions/PLEX purchasing is being used to shore-up that loss, but for how long?
KB
Dum Spiro Spero
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Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
11178
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Posted - 2017.05.24 16:38:47 -
[85] - Quote
Shallanna Yassavi wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Kisar wrote:
Probably going to hit their account numbers if they don't do something to stabilize PLEX prices.
People who use plex for game time tend to over estimate how many people do the same. The last time CCP told us about it, it was less than 10%. Same for multiboxers, most people don't have multiple accounts so people shedding alt accounts wouldn't hurt much. PLEX changes/price rises are in this way just like ISBoxer, many a isbox multiboxer predicted that EVE's pcu and sub numbers would take a hit if they banned isboxer, but that never happened, because despite the visibility of those guys (like the guy who could solo incursions), they were really only a very small part of the population. I heard lots of the alts were repurposed into injector farms. You heard correctly.
It's a lot more efficient, with some exceptions, to make extractor monkeys than developing characters for sale.
What I see happening is that eventually the number of players with characters SP injected to where they want will max out. This will make all the extractor monkeys pointless and not needed. So active accts will drop significantly and CCP will have to come up with a legit scheme to attract new players. Not the false active acct narrative they are currently trying to sell to those that can't look beyond the now.
Mr Epeen |
March rabbit
Mosquito squadron The-Culture
2185
|
Posted - 2017.05.25 14:42:05 -
[86] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Shallanna Yassavi wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Kisar wrote:
Probably going to hit their account numbers if they don't do something to stabilize PLEX prices.
People who use plex for game time tend to over estimate how many people do the same. The last time CCP told us about it, it was less than 10%. Same for multiboxers, most people don't have multiple accounts so people shedding alt accounts wouldn't hurt much. PLEX changes/price rises are in this way just like ISBoxer, many a isbox multiboxer predicted that EVE's pcu and sub numbers would take a hit if they banned isboxer, but that never happened, because despite the visibility of those guys (like the guy who could solo incursions), they were really only a very small part of the population. I heard lots of the alts were repurposed into injector farms. You heard correctly. It's a lot more efficient, with some exceptions, to make extractor monkeys than developing characters for sale. What I see happening is that eventually the number of players with characters SP injected to where they want will max out. This will make all the extractor monkeys pointless and not needed. So active accts will drop significantly and CCP will have to come up with a legit scheme to attract new players. Not the false active acct narrative they are currently trying to sell to those that can't look beyond the now. Mr Epeen The problem is that it could be already late at that point
The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
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Salvos Rhoska
2941
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Posted - 2017.05.25 15:04:05 -
[87] - Quote
The slippery slope has begun and will pick up speed.
The result being players like me who care enough and earn enough to sub, and those with so much isk to PLEX indefinately, as the remainder of players.
Activity and accounts are going to drop like flies this summer.
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Scialt
Universal Sanitation Corporation
145
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Posted - 2017.05.25 15:46:29 -
[88] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:The slippery slope has begun and will pick up speed.
The result being players like me who care enough and earn enough to sub, and those with so much isk to PLEX indefinately, as the remainder of players.
Activity and accounts are going to drop like flies this summer.
You can't plex unless someone buys the plex to sell.
So I wonder how that second group works going forward to be honest. If they've already collected the plex... they're good. But if they just have the isk... if people aren't buying plexes it won't matter.
We have players buying plex with real funds to get in game funds. If the interest in doing that shrinks too much... the game is in trouble. If the players who want to play using in-game funds but never spend real money declines too much... the game is in trouble.
The number of players is important only so far as it drives plex purposes and subscriptions. Losing numbers who aren't paying real money doesn't actually matter for the health of CCP... unless their leaving makes players who are subscribing stop doing so or makes the isk price of plex go down to the point that people aren't getting enough isk to warrant the real world financial cost of plex.
I'm not willing to predict anything yet... it's an interesting situation to watch. |
Salvos Rhoska
2943
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Posted - 2017.05.25 16:02:43 -
[89] - Quote
There is already so much unused PLEX in stockpiles (especially after Aurum stockpiles where converted), that it has skewed the market.
CCP produces PLEX, but players own, and have stockpiled, PLEX (and Aurum, as converted to PLEX now, making them even richer), WAAY beyond the rate of PLEX introduction and use per month.
The hidden supply of PLEX held by players, is unfathomable. Presumptuously, thousands upon thousands held by concentrated/deliberate entities.
CCP may control the introduction of PLEX into the game, but its these entities ingame that control its value ingame.
CCP cannot/will not control the price of PLEX, it is entirely in the hands of those with PLEX stockpiles ingame.
Ergo: CCPs sub/PLEX sales are reliant on the actions of PLEX stockpilers ingame. Thus, these PLEX stockpilers not only control the price of PLEX ingame, but also the value of subbing/buying PLEX from CCP.
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Skorpynekomimi
682
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Posted - 2017.05.25 17:21:23 -
[90] - Quote
I figure that as PLEX rises, then supply will increase as people get tempted to buy them with real money. Supply increases, prices drop.
Economic PVP
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Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6510
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Posted - 2017.05.25 17:27:57 -
[91] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
CCP may control the introduction of PLEX into the game, but its these entities ingame that control its value ingame.
Just as a point of interest here, To a large extent the OOG PLEX market is largely demand driven. The supply of PLEX is infinitely elastic--i.e. the supply curve is a horizontal line at whatever price CCP determines. Thus, demand is largely what determines the quantity of PLEX that shows up in game. As that demand curve moves around, the quantity will move around. This in turn will have an effect on the in-game price. If OOG demand flags, then supply in game will tighten. Yes that can be offset, possibly, by people who have stock piled PLEX but have not put them on the market, but that my not fully offset the effects on price.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
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Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
11194
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Posted - 2017.05.25 17:31:15 -
[92] - Quote
Skorpynekomimi wrote:I figure that as PLEX rises, then supply will increase as people get tempted to buy them with real money. Supply increases, prices drop. You'd think so, right? That's how it works in the real world after all. Yet not in this game.
Since introduction PLEX has only risen, with minor blips downward. Very minor. When it comes to PLEX, supply vs demand doesn't work. Probably because ISK is fabricated from nothing in massive amounts and is removed at such a small rate as to be negligible.
Ever see what happens in the real world when a country just starts printing money to try and dig themselves out of a hole? Massive failure every time. A lesson CCP has not yet learned.
Mr Epeen |
Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6510
|
Posted - 2017.05.25 17:48:30 -
[93] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Skorpynekomimi wrote:I figure that as PLEX rises, then supply will increase as people get tempted to buy them with real money. Supply increases, prices drop. You'd think so, right? That's how it works in the real world, after all. Yet not in this game. Since introduction, PLEX has only risen, with minor blips downward. Very minor. When it comes to PLEX, supply vs demand doesn't work. Probably because ISK is fabricated from nothing in massive amounts and is removed at such a small rate as to be negligible. Ever see what happens in the real world when a country just starts printing money to try and dig themselves out of a hole? Massive failure every time. A lesson CCP has not yet learned. Mr Epeen
Markets are dynamic, so while a rise in PLEX prices in game would, ceterius paribus, result in more people buying them out of game, that is not the only factor at work. For example, the price to get to 500 PLEX for game time has gone up. For example you have to buy slightly over 4.5 of the 110 PLEX pack to get to 500 PLEX to get 30 days of game time. That price increase is like shifting the supply curve up, which ceterius paribus, would indicate a drop in PLEX bought OOG and thus a reduction in IG supply of PLEX. So there are two counter acting effects.
Further, the current increase in PLEX prices in game could simply be the result of this supply effect--that is the OOG supply has shifted up (keep in mind the OOG supply graph will be a horizontal line at the price leve--e.g. a perfectly elastic supply graph) and thus in game supply has shifted inwards (the IG supply graph is most likely your typical upward slopping supply graph) resulting in higher prices.
Basically, one has to be careful when there is a shift in the demand (supply) curve vs. a movement along the demand (supply) curve. If demand shifts--i.e. every point on the demand curve moves left or right, then the supply side is a movement along the supply curve. Be careful reasoning from a price change, it can lead one astray.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
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Salvos Rhoska
2948
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Posted - 2017.05.25 17:55:57 -
[94] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:CCP may control the introduction of PLEX into the game, but its these entities ingame that control its value ingame. Thus, demand is largely what determines the quantity of PLEX that shows up in game.
I disagree.
Demand only determines the introduction of new PLEX, but that does not account for withheld PLEX.
If I sit on 10,000 PLEX, and have sufficient isk/income to maintain my enjoyment of EVE, I have no motivation to sell my PLEX.
As was pointed out by 2 other posters, when I withhold those 10k PLEX, I deny CCP its income from them for replacement.
I control the market, and CCPs income, by doing nothing except sitting on my 10k PLEX. This as a culminating effect of my originally, at better rates, having withdrawn 10k PLEX from the market in the first place.
The fact I withhold 10k PLEX from the market, is why the market supply/demand is what it is today. There is a 10k PLEX gap in the system, that was never used to sub, was never expended, sitting in my pocket.
Rates of PLEX introduction are not available to us, but it is certain that the more PLEX I withdraw from the market, and sit on, the greater the value of my existing stockpile.
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Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6510
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Posted - 2017.05.25 18:05:46 -
[95] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:CCP may control the introduction of PLEX into the game, but its these entities ingame that control its value ingame. Thus, demand is largely what determines the quantity of PLEX that shows up in game. I disagree. Demand only determines the introduction of new PLEX, but that does not account for withheld PLEX. If I sit on 10,000 PLEX, and have sufficient isk/income to maintain my enjoyment of EVE, I have no motivation to sell my PLEX. As was pointed out by 2 other posters, when I withhold those 10k PLEX, I deny CCP its income from them for replacement. I control the market, and CCPs income, by doing nothing except sitting on my 10k PLEX. This as a culminating effect of my originally, at better rates, having withdrawn 10k PLEX from the market in the first place. The fact I withhold 10k PLEX from the market, is why the market supply/demand is what it is today. Rates of PLEX introduction are not available to us, but it is certain that the more PLEX I withdraw from the market, and sit on, the greater the value of my existing stockpile.
I was referring to the OOG market. There CCP is the sole supplier and they can supply as many PLEX as customers want, there is is effectively no upper bound on the number of PLEX they could supply. Thus, it is demand that determines the amount of PLEX entering the game. CCP can have an effect, but only by lowering or raising the price. That is all I meant.
As for the stock in game, some of it may be effectively sunk out of the game in an account that is say, no longer subbed and the player is no longer logging in (for now at least). It is much like ISK in the wallets of those players. It is technically in game, but there is pretty much no way for it to be in circulation and having an effect on the economy.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
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Salvos Rhoska
2948
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Posted - 2017.05.25 18:35:13 -
[96] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:CCP may control the introduction of PLEX into the game, but its these entities ingame that control its value ingame. Thus, demand is largely what determines the quantity of PLEX that shows up in game. I disagree. Demand only determines the introduction of new PLEX, but that does not account for withheld PLEX. If I sit on 10,000 PLEX, and have sufficient isk/income to maintain my enjoyment of EVE, I have no motivation to sell my PLEX. As was pointed out by 2 other posters, when I withhold those 10k PLEX, I deny CCP its income from them for replacement. I control the market, and CCPs income, by doing nothing except sitting on my 10k PLEX. This as a culminating effect of my originally, at better rates, having withdrawn 10k PLEX from the market in the first place. The fact I withhold 10k PLEX from the market, is why the market supply/demand is what it is today. Rates of PLEX introduction are not available to us, but it is certain that the more PLEX I withdraw from the market, and sit on, the greater the value of my existing stockpile. I was referring to the OOG market. There CCP is the sole supplier and they can supply as many PLEX as customers want, there is is effectively no upper bound on the number of PLEX they could supply. Thus, it is demand that determines the amount of PLEX entering the game. CCP can have an effect, but only by lowering or raising the price. That is all I meant. As for the stock in game, some of it may be effectively sunk out of the game in an account that is say, no longer subbed and the player is no longer logging in (for now at least). It is much like ISK in the wallets of those players. It is technically in game, but there is pretty much no way for it to be in circulation and having an effect on the economy.
1) You avoided my impetus. 2) CCP is the supplier of PLEX for cash, but not its holder once issued. 3) Players hold PLEX, and they hold them in huge amounts, far exceeding monthly introduction of PLEX. 4) PLEX is a means to pay for sub/secondary services. 5) Players that leave EVE likely dont have PLEX, or they would use them to train their characters while away.
Result: - PLEX magnates control the supply of PLEX ingame, not CCP. -CCPs introduction of PLEX is dependent on player purchase. -BUT, PLEX magnates control that, because they control the INGAME market for isk equity.
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Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6510
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Posted - 2017.05.26 05:55:07 -
[97] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
1) You avoided my impetus. 2) CCP is the supplier of PLEX for cash, but not its holder once issued. 3) Players hold PLEX, and they hold them in huge amounts, far exceeding monthly introduction of PLEX. 4) PLEX is a means to pay for sub/secondary services. 5) Players that leave EVE likely dont have PLEX, or they would use them to train their characters while away.
Result: - PLEX magnates control the supply of PLEX ingame, not CCP. -CCPs introduction of PLEX is dependent on player purchase. -BUT, PLEX magnates control that, because they control the INGAME market for isk equity.
If someone sits on a 1-10k PLEX stack, this has long lasting repercussions on the market by omission, as they have been purchased, introduced, but not expended.
As was pointed out by two other posters, CCP only registers PLEX as income once they are expended. Yet there are entities sitting on thousands upon thousands of unexpended PLEXs, basically screwing CCP out of their money.
Then how come the price drops when CCP has a PLEX sale?
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
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Salvos Rhoska
2950
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Posted - 2017.05.26 06:13:37 -
[98] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:
1) You avoided my impetus. 2) CCP is the supplier of PLEX for cash, but not its holder once issued. 3) Players hold PLEX, and they hold them in huge amounts, far exceeding monthly introduction of PLEX. 4) PLEX is a means to pay for sub/secondary services. 5) Players that leave EVE likely dont have PLEX, or they would use them to train their characters while away.
Result: - PLEX magnates control the supply of PLEX ingame, not CCP. -CCPs introduction of PLEX is dependent on player purchase. -BUT, PLEX magnates control that, because they control the INGAME market for isk equity.
If someone sits on a 1-10k PLEX stack, this has long lasting repercussions on the market by omission, as they have been purchased, introduced, but not expended.
As was pointed out by two other posters, CCP only registers PLEX as income once they are expended. Yet there are entities sitting on thousands upon thousands of unexpended PLEXs, basically screwing CCP out of their money.
Then how come the price drops when CCP has a PLEX sale?
A better question would be how come the prices rise back even above the pre-sale price afterwards.
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Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
800
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Posted - 2017.05.26 06:44:10 -
[99] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:
1) You avoided my impetus. 2) CCP is the supplier of PLEX for cash, but not its holder once issued. 3) Players hold PLEX, and they hold them in huge amounts, far exceeding monthly introduction of PLEX. 4) PLEX is a means to pay for sub/secondary services. 5) Players that leave EVE likely dont have PLEX, or they would use them to train their characters while away.
Result: - PLEX magnates control the supply of PLEX ingame, not CCP. -CCPs introduction of PLEX is dependent on player purchase. -BUT, PLEX magnates control that, because they control the INGAME market for isk equity.
If someone sits on a 1-10k PLEX stack, this has long lasting repercussions on the market by omission, as they have been purchased, introduced, but not expended.
As was pointed out by two other posters, CCP only registers PLEX as income once they are expended. Yet there are entities sitting on thousands upon thousands of unexpended PLEXs, basically screwing CCP out of their money.
Then how come the price drops when CCP has a PLEX sale? A better question would be how come the prices rise back even above the pre-sale price afterwards. supply/demand, with PLEX sale there is more PLEX on market when sale ends prices return to previous state. PLEX is like gold in RL. It's been rising in price since introducion. If I would invest my ISK into faction BS 2 years (machariel for example) it would be terrible loss. PLEX on the other hand...
"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville
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Salvos Rhoska
2950
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Posted - 2017.05.26 10:13:34 -
[100] - Quote
Teckos:
Just realised I answered your question with a question, which is disrespectful.
The answer to your question is that PLEX sales spur purchase of PLEX from CCP by players whom immediately sell them for isk. Supply on the market increases substantially and rapidly, as they compete each other down so as to get their isk as fast as possible.
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Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6511
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Posted - 2017.05.26 17:09:49 -
[101] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:
1) You avoided my impetus. 2) CCP is the supplier of PLEX for cash, but not its holder once issued. 3) Players hold PLEX, and they hold them in huge amounts, far exceeding monthly introduction of PLEX. 4) PLEX is a means to pay for sub/secondary services. 5) Players that leave EVE likely dont have PLEX, or they would use them to train their characters while away.
Result: - PLEX magnates control the supply of PLEX ingame, not CCP. -CCPs introduction of PLEX is dependent on player purchase. -BUT, PLEX magnates control that, because they control the INGAME market for isk equity.
If someone sits on a 1-10k PLEX stack, this has long lasting repercussions on the market by omission, as they have been purchased, introduced, but not expended.
As was pointed out by two other posters, CCP only registers PLEX as income once they are expended. Yet there are entities sitting on thousands upon thousands of unexpended PLEXs, basically screwing CCP out of their money.
Then how come the price drops when CCP has a PLEX sale? A better question would be how come the prices rise back even above the pre-sale price afterwards.
Because the sale has ended and the price OOG went back up and as a result the supply curve has shifted up, and quantity supplied in game goes down leading to a price increase.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
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Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6511
|
Posted - 2017.05.26 17:29:18 -
[102] - Quote
And to be clear, I do not subscribe to any sort of theory that there is some sort of plan/plot to raise PLEX prices by players. I don't doubt many players holding PLEX want the price to rise. And some may have bought PLEX awhile ago and have made alot of ISK (at least "on paper") doing so.
My view is that the increased use of PLEX for various things in game has been a contributing factor to the rise in PLEX. Also the recent increase in the price of PLEX for 30 days of game time. Using the 110 pack one needs to buy just over 4.5 of those which works out to around $22.65-ish (obviously you can't just buy 4.5, you'll need to buy 5 and have 50 PLEX left over). One can get that number lower by mixing and matching PLEX bundles for say, but it seems the price for 30 days of game time right now is around $21-$22 which is an increase over the old $19.99. Thus the supply curve moves up, and we slide back along the demand curve and we get less PLEX in game on the market and thus a higher price. As more things can be bought with PLEX, the more the price will continue to rise. As player wealth continues to rise, that will move the price higher. Players leaving the game will probably have a negative impact.
There are many factors here that can explain the rise in price without resorting to a secret cabal of players doing things to the PLEX market. Besides, even if they are...how do they cash out without crashing the market?
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
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Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
11201
|
Posted - 2017.05.26 18:11:09 -
[103] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:And to be clear, I do not subscribe to any sort of theory that there is some sort of plan/plot to raise PLEX prices by players. You are, of course, entitled to your opinion.
But ask yourself this. Why would PLEX manipulation by the EVE one percenters not happen when these same people manipulate every other commodity in the game? Or do you also not subscribe to the the theory that market manipulation is as common as PVP within a certain demographic of the player base?
I might even go so far as to say market manipulation is PVP in its purist form. Sitting on a gate shooting at haulers gets you a killmail. Sitting in Jita 4/4 lording over the Trit trade makes you king of The Forge.
Mr Epeen
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DaReaper
Net 7 Cannon.Fodder
2958
|
Posted - 2017.05.26 20:16:40 -
[104] - Quote
I presently have 5 acocunts, 4 i pay with money, one is paied with plex for 3 months. ATM i'm not playing as much as i should, but it would not take me too long to net the isk for a plex if i focus. I mean i cna make 45m or so per site in a c3 and clear them in about 10-15min. thats not including if i sell gas, ore, and the salvage. and any supplemental pi i setup. I mena getting isk for plex is simple stupid to do. Either you are too lazy to try, or you need ot rethink your play style. And if its too hard to grind, then buy game time with real money, which in california is 1 hour of work for 1 month.
OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!
Eve For life.
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DaReaper
Net 7 Cannon.Fodder
2958
|
Posted - 2017.05.26 21:21:25 -
[105] - Quote
in addition, the smaller plex makes it even easier to pay with plex. if for example you have enough isk for 400 plex, you could just on ccp's site. fork out a mere $5 and get the rest you need. giving you more options to pay less to play eve
OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!
Eve For life.
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Xavier Swades
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2017.05.27 00:31:05 -
[106] - Quote
Just joined eve, I love it, happy to pay the monthly fee to subscribe.
But let's face it - this is a long term hobby. And rising plex prices (which are price controlled recently, based a "share split" of old plex looks suspiciously like a cash grab on a lowering player trend) A little enlightenment as to where the devs are thinking of going would go a long way right now.
Simply my honest opinion, from a super nerd that loves spaceships and cats.
TLDR: good time for real direction dev blog. And maybe a dev stream on twitch, see paradox for how to engage an audience! |
Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6511
|
Posted - 2017.05.27 03:05:09 -
[107] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:And to be clear, I do not subscribe to any sort of theory that there is some sort of plan/plot to raise PLEX prices by players. You are, of course, entitled to your opinion. But ask yourself this. Why would PLEX manipulation by the EVE one percenters not happen when these same people manipulate every other commodity in the game? Or do you also not subscribe to the the theory that market manipulation is as common as PVP within a certain demographic of the player base? I might even go so far as to say market manipulation is PVP in its purist form. Sitting on a gate shooting at haulers gets you a killmail. Sitting in Jita 4/4 lording over the Trit trade makes you king of The Forge. Mr Epeen
Explain how you'd unwind that position without crashing the market?
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
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Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
11205
|
Posted - 2017.05.27 03:28:07 -
[108] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Mr Epeen wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:And to be clear, I do not subscribe to any sort of theory that there is some sort of plan/plot to raise PLEX prices by players. You are, of course, entitled to your opinion. But ask yourself this. Why would PLEX manipulation by the EVE one percenters not happen when these same people manipulate every other commodity in the game? Or do you also not subscribe to the the theory that market manipulation is as common as PVP within a certain demographic of the player base? I might even go so far as to say market manipulation is PVP in its purist form. Sitting on a gate shooting at haulers gets you a killmail. Sitting in Jita 4/4 lording over the Trit trade makes you king of The Forge. Mr Epeen Explain how you'd unwind that position without crashing the market? Ask your overlords to tell you about cornering the market on Technetium back when they were relevant. They can tell you about it in excruciating detail.
Mr Epeen
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Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6511
|
Posted - 2017.05.27 03:50:00 -
[109] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Mr Epeen wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:And to be clear, I do not subscribe to any sort of theory that there is some sort of plan/plot to raise PLEX prices by players. You are, of course, entitled to your opinion. But ask yourself this. Why would PLEX manipulation by the EVE one percenters not happen when these same people manipulate every other commodity in the game? Or do you also not subscribe to the the theory that market manipulation is as common as PVP within a certain demographic of the player base? I might even go so far as to say market manipulation is PVP in its purist form. Sitting on a gate shooting at haulers gets you a killmail. Sitting in Jita 4/4 lording over the Trit trade makes you king of The Forge. Mr Epeen Explain how you'd unwind that position without crashing the market? Ask your overlords to tell you about cornering the market on Technetium back when they were relevant. They can tell you about it in excruciating detail. Mr Epeen
That is a cartel and it has the same problem. You drive up the price by limiting supply. But that means you have a pile of technetium sitting there at the high price you don't dare sell lest the price crashes. Now at least with technetium they controlled production. And given that the demand for technetium is probably somewhat inelastic--i.e. you don't have much option if you are going to build T2 items that need technetium--they might end up with higher profits.
But PLEX is not like that. First the demand for PLEX is probably far more elastic. Price goes up, alot of players can switch back over to a paid sub. A paid sub for an entire year is close to half the PLEX price. Further, if the IG price goes up, players who need PLEX for things like character transfers can buy them OOG completely side stepping any sort of attempt to corner the PLEX market. Finally, even if you do buy up all the PLEX in game and set the price at 10 billion ISK, there is nothing you can do to stop somebody from buying PLEX OOG and putting them on the market for.....9.99 billion. To stop them you'd have to buy those PLEX for 9.99 billion each.
Other forms of manipulation do exist but are much more short term like churning, pump and dump, etc. These would not produce the long upward trend we have seen in PLEX prices.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
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