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Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
3357
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Posted - 2017.05.25 15:54:58 -
[61] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:CCP only "earn" your money when the PLEX are used. All hoarded PLEX are still pending usage for the associated money to become "income" by CCP. Jenn aSide wrote:Also, the way CCPs accounting works, the income is not actually added to their books until the PLEX is consumed. So in a very real sense, as soon as someone clicks the button to activate the plex, CCP receives bacon (cash). Yes. Ergo: CCPs earnings are sitting in PLEX stockpilers pockets and dependant on their actions. Stockpilers control the ingame PLEX market via isk, and by extension, CCP's earning via cash. 1) If they withhold PLEX, CCP's income goes up, as supply decreases and incentive to sub/buy PLEX increases. 2) If they dump PLEX, CCP's income goes down, as supply increases and incentive to sub/buy PLEX decreases. He whom controls the PLEX, controls EVE.Shareholders may have control of CCP, but PLEX stockpilers control CCP's income.
That's like saying the miners hold EVE by the balls because no ship can exist without minerals. |
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
34037
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Posted - 2017.05.25 16:39:28 -
[62] - Quote
I have suspicions that they are not holding CCP by the balls, it may look so, but in fact its pleasurable fondlling. Else CCP would not boast about record earnings and develop different games.
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Clandestiny
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
37
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Posted - 2017.05.25 16:51:15 -
[63] - Quote
Sonya Corvinus wrote:$10.95/mo is so much cheaper than plex is now from a time perspective ("grinding for money" IRL compared to griding for ISK) I don't see why anyone would ever actually buy plex in game.... May I ask where you live? I live in the Mid-South, USA.
5/23/17 CROSS BORDER FEE Miscellaneous/Bill Pay (BP)-$0.30 5/23/17 CCP GAMES ORDERID:3718 Amusement & Entertainment-$14.95
So I'd like the $10.95 fee vs $15.25.
Thanks
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=ƒÄ»GåÆ=ƒÜÇ
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Clandestiny
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
37
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Posted - 2017.05.25 17:00:32 -
[64] - Quote
As opposed to 500 PLEX:
5/11/17 CROSS BORDER FEE Miscellaneous/Bill Pay (BP)-$0.40 5/11/17EVE ONLINE ITEMS Amusement & Entertainment-$19.99
$20.39 for PLEX or $15.25 for a 1-month sub?
$15.25 is 39% higher than $10.95.
$20.39 is 34% higher than $15.25.
What gives?
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=ƒÄ»GåÆ=ƒÜÇ
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Salvos Rhoska
2944
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Posted - 2017.05.25 17:04:09 -
[65] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:CCP only "earn" your money when the PLEX are used. All hoarded PLEX are still pending usage for the associated money to become "income" by CCP. Jenn aSide wrote:Also, the way CCPs accounting works, the income is not actually added to their books until the PLEX is consumed. So in a very real sense, as soon as someone clicks the button to activate the plex, CCP receives bacon (cash). Yes. Ergo: CCPs earnings are sitting in PLEX stockpilers pockets and dependant on their actions. Stockpilers control the ingame PLEX market via isk, and by extension, CCP's earning via cash. 1) If they withhold PLEX, CCP's income goes up, as supply decreases and incentive to sub/buy PLEX increases. 2) If they dump PLEX, CCP's income goes down, as supply increases and incentive to sub/buy PLEX decreases. He whom controls the PLEX, controls EVE.Shareholders may have control of CCP, but PLEX stockpilers control CCP's income. That's like saying the miners hold EVE by the balls because no ship can exist without minerals.
Yes.
Without minerals, no ships can be built.
Did you have a point?
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Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
11194
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Posted - 2017.05.25 17:49:45 -
[66] - Quote
Clandestiny wrote:Sonya Corvinus wrote:$10.95/mo is so much cheaper than plex is now from a time perspective ("grinding for money" IRL compared to griding for ISK) I don't see why anyone would ever actually buy plex in game.... May I ask where you live? I live in the Mid-South, USA.
5/23/17 CROSS BORDER FEE Miscellaneous/Bill Pay (BP)-$0.30 5/23/17 CCP GAMES ORDERID:3718 Amusement & Entertainment-$14.95
So I'd like the $10.95 fee vs $15.25.
Thanks
There is no $10.95 option. There is a $131.40 option. If you want a months playtime for $10.95, it'll cost you a yearly sub.
But admitting that inconvenient truth sort of defeats the argument put forward.
Just ignore Sonya.
Mr Epeen
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Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
3072
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Posted - 2017.05.25 18:50:57 -
[67] - Quote
Clandestiny wrote: As opposed to 500 PLEX:
5/11/17 CROSS BORDER FEE Miscellaneous/Bill Pay (BP)-$0.40 5/11/17EVE ONLINE ITEMS Amusement & Entertainment-$19.99
$20.39 for PLEX or $15.25 for a 1-month sub?
$15.25 is 39% higher than $10.95.
$20.39 is 34% higher than $15.25.
What gives?
plex can be used for more than subbing an account and it is an in game tradable item so it sells for a premium. If you just want to sub you can pay for the sub directly for $15 per month. and as pointed out the 10.95 is the monthly rate when you sub for a full year at a time.
selling officer BCUs! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6872141
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Defecanda
Ice Mining Boys Requiem Eternal
57
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Posted - 2017.05.25 21:50:02 -
[68] - Quote
Where did all these virtual economists get their credentials?
[i][b]CCP Zulu.....-á-á-á-á-á
Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience.-á[/b](i like to steal sigs)[/i]
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Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
3073
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Posted - 2017.05.25 22:06:19 -
[69] - Quote
Defecanda wrote:Where did all these virtual economists get their credentials? eve taught me more on economics than school did.
selling officer BCUs! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6872141
@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
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Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
1213
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Posted - 2017.05.25 23:28:24 -
[70] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:There is no $10.95 option. There is a $131.40 option. If you want a months playtime for $10.95, it'll cost you a yearly sub. But admitting that inconvenient truth sort of defeats the argument put forward. Just ignore Sonya. Mr Epeen
Ah yes, today I learned a year's subscription divided by 12 months doesn't make sense. Not only are you an as*hole, but bad at math too.
But hey, you showed how big your epeen is with a forum alt, so we should take you super seriously
Good god the stupidity....
Try to hide your trolling harder, tiger. |
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Shallanna Yassavi
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
540
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Posted - 2017.05.25 23:58:03 -
[71] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:CCP only "earn" your money when the PLEX are used. All hoarded PLEX are still pending usage for the associated money to become "income" by CCP. Jenn aSide wrote:Also, the way CCPs accounting works, the income is not actually added to their books until the PLEX is consumed. So in a very real sense, as soon as someone clicks the button to activate the plex, CCP receives bacon (cash). Yes. Ergo: CCPs earnings are sitting in PLEX stockpilers pockets and dependant on their actions. Stockpilers control the ingame PLEX market via isk, and by extension, CCP's earning via cash. 1) If they withhold PLEX, CCP's income goes up, as supply decreases and incentive to sub/buy PLEX increases. 2) If they dump PLEX, CCP's income goes down, as supply increases and incentive to sub/buy PLEX decreases. He whom controls the PLEX, controls EVE.Shareholders may have control of CCP, but PLEX stockpilers control CCP's income. Detail: PLEX in somebody's stockpile is considered as "services paid for but not rendered."
If the stockpilers dump and people actually use the PLEX, CCP can consider services paid for and rendered. CCP can't just go use the whole worth of all the PLEX because they have to consider what happens if the hoarders unsub a lot of accounts and start burning their stockpile for game time.
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Spc One
Sulek Nolich 03
318
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Posted - 2017.05.26 00:16:47 -
[72] - Quote
Thomas Lot wrote:Prediction: Before the winter, it will cost 2 Billion ISK for one month of Game Time. And alot of players will stop playing.
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Rena Skjem
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
4
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Posted - 2017.05.26 13:55:04 -
[73] - Quote
Sonya Corvinus wrote:I moved 1000 miles You just moved from one city to another. But you moved INSIDE country. You didnt need to get a VISA\greencard\whatever to move there or learn new language.
"moving" is difficult. Especially if it is not from one city to another inside country. You were able to do it? Good for you, but dont assume that everyone is living in america and have a 10$/hour minimum wage.
Some places got 85$/month minimum wage. woah. LESS THEN A DOLLAH. And those ppl can play BECAUSE they can convert real life time into gametime. So plex prices going up will make them quit and thats kinda bad.
But who am i? I dont live in America and i didnt move 1000miles so my opinion doesnt matter, amirite? |
Salvos Rhoska
2950
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Posted - 2017.05.26 14:06:51 -
[74] - Quote
Rena Skjem wrote: Some places got 85$/month minimum wage. woah. LESS THEN A DOLLAH. And those ppl can play BECAUSE they can convert real life time into gametime. So plex prices going up will make them quit and thats kinda bad.
Absolutely correct.
EVE is global.
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Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
15915
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Posted - 2017.05.26 14:42:09 -
[75] - Quote
The last time CCP gave us demographics information was 2008, but there is no reason to think that this has shifted majorly.
The majority of EVE players come from places where EVE Online is easily affordable, the idea that *something*, some kind of intervention by someone (coughCCPLEASEcough) is just the same old self serving "I don't like plex prices but I don't want to use real money" BS that always happens when plex prices rise.
Oddly enough, it is the second reply in the last link that is spot on:
Mr Epeen wrote:Here's the solution in one sentence: If you find the price too high, don't buy it. Glad I could help. Mr Epeen |
Salvos Rhoska
2950
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Posted - 2017.05.26 15:03:14 -
[76] - Quote
Players buying PLEX ingame creates demand. PLEX, and hence CCPs income from PLEX sales, depends on it.
If players are priced out of the ingame PLEX market, it is guaranteed to result in less player activity.
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Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
15915
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Posted - 2017.05.26 15:26:43 -
[77] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Players buying PLEX ingame creates demand. PLEX, and hence CCPs income from PLEX sales, depends on it.
If players are priced out of the ingame PLEX market, it is guaranteed to result in less player activity.
Poor players (IRL) play to PLEX.
They may not contribute to CCPs funds directly, but they do keep activity/content alive, as paid for by some IRL richer player.
If that segment of players is priced out of the market, and drops out of EVE, it will have some pretty severe repercussions for EVE and CCP.
Furthermore, these players love EVE as much as any of us, despite their IRL income being less than ours. Its not good to lose them, even though they pay with isk rather than cash, for the same experience. \
Remember what was said in this thread, go back and look through some videos of the 2015 fanfest, not a lot of people relatively speaking use PLEx for game time. Most people paid subs before the 'clone states' change allowed free to play. And plex was cheaper 2 years ago so there is no reason to think this has changed.
It's much ado about nothing, just like the "omg isboxer is going away, subs will plummet!" histeria that people use to cover up the fact that they are space rich ISK-misers that don't like spending more space money on plex.
Right now game time for EVE only costs 45 million isk per day in game (or 50 cents USD per day out of game for a month to month sub). That's 40-45 minutes of afking an Ishtar in an anomaly in null sec one time per day, or following this Burner mission guide in high sec for 15 minutes a day, or joining an incursion fleet and doing TWO sites with the fleet once per day (average 15 minute wait to get in fleet and 30 minutes to do 2 HQ sites with the communities I run with).
If the country you are in is so poor that you can't generate 50 cents (USD) per day to pay a sub, and you are so pitiful at EVE PVE that you can't spend 15-45 minutes generating the 45 mil per day you need to play as an Omega without spending 50 cents per day, you shouldn't be playing EVE (or owning a computer at all) in the 1st place. |
Nicolai Serkanner
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
698
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Posted - 2017.05.26 15:47:25 -
[78] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Players buying PLEX ingame creates demand. PLEX, and hence CCPs income from PLEX sales, depends on it.
If players are priced out of the ingame PLEX market, it is guaranteed to result in less player activity.
Poor players (IRL) play to PLEX.
They may not contribute to CCPs funds directly, but they do keep activity/content alive, as paid for by some IRL richer player.
If that segment of players is priced out of the market, and drops out of EVE, it will have some pretty severe repercussions for EVE and CCP.
Furthermore, these players love EVE as much as any of us, despite their IRL income being less than ours. Its not good to lose them, even though they pay with isk rather than cash, for the same experience.
PLEX is the gold standard of EVE.
The higher PLEX rises, it invariably, and deterministically draws up the price index of everything else.
The more players are priced out of the PLEX market, and who are otherwise unable/unwilling to sub, the less market demand there is in EVE for anything, as well as less supply.
PLEX prices will not drop as a result of reduced demand by loss of these IRL players, it will increase in proportion to the attrition of these players whom actively bought PLEX and whom had the greatest demand for it. The remaining PLEX market will be among the rich, both ingame and without.
IRl poor players constitute a completely different market segment, with different characteristics.
They play to PLEX. They need PLEX inorder to remain ingame. Whereas to us, subbing and isk is trivial, to them its like oxygen. If they cant make it to a PLEX in a month, they run out of oxygen, and die ingame.
These are the players whom buoy the PLEX market. They buy PLEX every single month, out of necessity. They are the largest segment of PLEX CONSUMERS.
They play very hard, very actively and very passionately inorder to achieve that.
Losing them, and the content they provide, is not good for EVE.
What a bunch of utter crap! And no, I am not going to explain why, figure it out yourself.
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Scialt
Universal Sanitation Corporation
150
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Posted - 2017.05.26 15:49:42 -
[79] - Quote
Clandestiny wrote:Sonya Corvinus wrote:$10.95/mo is so much cheaper than plex is now from a time perspective ("grinding for money" IRL compared to griding for ISK) I don't see why anyone would ever actually buy plex in game.... May I ask where you live? I live in the Mid-South, USA.
5/23/17 CROSS BORDER FEE Miscellaneous/Bill Pay (BP)-$0.30 5/23/17 CCP GAMES ORDERID:3718 Amusement & Entertainment-$14.95
So I'd like the $10.95 fee vs $15.25.
Thanks
If you buy a year at a time, it's 10.95 per month.
I bought a year when I cam back to go from Alpha to Omega (which still appears to be active). It cost 100 dollars (or maybe it was 99). That's 8.34 a month.
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Salvos Rhoska
2952
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Posted - 2017.05.26 15:50:30 -
[80] - Quote
You underestimate the fragility of the PLEX system.
Its primary CONSUMERS are people that play to PLEX.
Once they are priced out of the market, not only will activity rates drop, but the PLEX market will go haywire.
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Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
15922
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Posted - 2017.05.26 16:26:25 -
[81] - Quote
People say this every time, the PLEX market is at risk. I could link "omg plex prices" posts here all day from 2013 on up. And not just from this forum.
Very simply question then. WHY hasn't it happened yet? People claim that terrible things are going to happen because PLEX is too expensive. So when is the big fall going to happen?
Why didn't EVE just explode on November 19, 2014?
Donima wrote:Plex on the marker in eve has just reached 1 billion isk. The increase in price if this commodity is outrageous. Especially when you consider that just 2 years ago it was only 500mil. And back in 2009 it was just under 200mil. That means it grew 300 mil over 3 years and then 500 mil in just under 2yrs with nearly 200mil of that being just in the last month or 2.
Now some may say this is due to inflation or increasing avenue for income stream. But nowhere of those explain why Plex prices have skyrocketed so drastically while every other commodity has practically stayed stagnant.
Many players rely on the ability to pay isk to play because they can't afford to pay with real money such as broke college students or others affected by a down turned economy. But these prices are making it extremely difficult for these people to afford the time to be able to afford to Plex their account.
My concern is that if CCP doesn't do something about this soon, they will be losing a lot of their more consistent player basis and we as capsuleers might be losing a lot of our industrial friends.
I ask CCP to consider this market commodity as an exploited market item right now and look for a way to fix it as soon as possible.
Any day now, PLEX prices are gonna kill EVE!!!!!!
Edit: I like how that post tried to make it sound like it wasn't that the poster was mad about plex prices for herself but rather the poster's concern for "broke college students and folks hurt by the economic downturn" lol.
It's great that we have now evolved to being concerned that some people now live in countries where the minimum wage is $1.50 U.S. per hour.... It's like history repeats itself over and over and over again. |
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
3080
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Posted - 2017.05.26 19:26:06 -
[82] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Any day now, PLEX prices are gonna kill EVE!!!!!!
OH NOES!!!1!~
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Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
15922
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Posted - 2017.05.26 19:32:42 -
[83] - Quote
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Any day now, PLEX prices are gonna kill EVE!!!!!! OH NOES!!!1!~
It's true, I seen it!
I would love to coin a new phrase based off the number 1 rule of EVE. "Don't fly what you can't afford to lose" should be joined by "if you can't afford to pay, don't even PLEX" (because plex will go up and you will feel really bad). |
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
3358
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Posted - 2017.05.26 20:40:28 -
[84] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Chainsaw Plankton wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Any day now, PLEX prices are gonna kill EVE!!!!!! OH NOES!!!1!~ It's true, I seen it! I would love to coin a new phrase based off the number 1 rule of EVE. "Don't fly what you can't afford to lose" should be joined by "if you can't afford to pay, don't even PLEX" (because plex will go up and you will feel really bad).
While it might be bad for CCP, anyone who can't afford to play should probably leave anyway and burn their time on something more productive for them than pixel submarines. EVE is relatively cheap as entertainment but it's still a luxury after all. |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
5860
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Posted - 2017.05.27 07:23:25 -
[85] - Quote
Sonya Corvinus wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Probably next time he shouldn't be born in places like Serbia, Bulgaria, Bolivia or Brazil, where the minimal wage is about 1.50 USD per hour. ...silly 'muricans... Today I learned it's impossible for people to move. Did you miss the part where I moved thousands of miles to have a shot at a good job? I moved thousands of miles with only what I could carry with me. One more time, if you can't afford $10.95/mo, stop playing video games and focus on your life. But I forgot, I'm american, so there's no possibility I had a **** life for decades.
Moving within your country is not "moving". Also there's a well known fact that people who start down and reach to the top usually suffer from survivorship bias ("If I made it, why they don't try?"), forgetting the random opportunities they enjoyed.
And by the way, a person can have a perfectly focused life (like having an appartment and a internet connection and a computer) and yet be stupid if they spent money in videogames they can pay with just gametime. |
Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6512
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Posted - 2017.05.27 07:41:35 -
[86] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Sonya Corvinus wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Probably next time he shouldn't be born in places like Serbia, Bulgaria, Bolivia or Brazil, where the minimal wage is about 1.50 USD per hour. ...silly 'muricans... Today I learned it's impossible for people to move. Did you miss the part where I moved thousands of miles to have a shot at a good job? I moved thousands of miles with only what I could carry with me. One more time, if you can't afford $10.95/mo, stop playing video games and focus on your life. But I forgot, I'm american, so there's no possibility I had a **** life for decades. Moving within your country is not "moving". Also there's a well known fact that people who start down and reach to the top usually suffer from survivorship bias ("If I made it, why they don't try?"), forgetting the random opportunities they enjoyed. And by the way, a person can have a perfectly focused life (like having an appartment and a internet connection and a computer) and yet be stupid if they spent money in videogames they can pay with just gametime.
Actually, yes moving within a country is still moving. Maybe not as stressful as moving to a foreign country, but at this point you are arguing over who is the tallest pygmy.
As for using game time to "pay", if you like "grinding" and thereby make enough ISK to PLEX your account, yes then that makes sense. However if grinding is in fact a real grind and you can afford a yearly subscription, then grinding makes little sense...that opportunity cost thing you know.
Nothing is free in life.
And excellent point on survival bias and selection bias in general.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Sylvia Kildare
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
65
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Posted - 2017.05.27 08:18:13 -
[87] - Quote
Marika Sunji wrote:Don Pera Saissore wrote:Sonya Corvinus wrote:I don't see why anyone would ever actually buy plex in game.... I wish i was stupid and privileged like you First off, way to escalate, wow. Second, where I live, a ****** minimum-wage job pays for subscription in under half the time it would take to grind a plex in-game, and that is with currency conversion.
However, some people keep more than one account going. If paid entirely in real world cash, that can add up fast. A lot of multiboxers use a mix of subs and PLEX to balance that out a bit, if they make enough money in game that they don't mind buying PLEX with some of it, that is. |
Sylvia Kildare
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
65
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Posted - 2017.05.27 08:28:35 -
[88] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:The reason people explain (and constantly have to re-explain) the fact that PLEX makes CCP more money than other forums of subscribing is because so many people demonstrate that they don't get it. They think that somehow them using PLEX is costing CCP money because they aren't personally giving CCP any money, when (again) PLEX use means MORE money for CCP.
True, but... that said, there are people who just will not sub. And if the PLEX price in-game becomes too expensive for them, they won't be PLEXing or subbing. If the demand for PLEX falls then the supply will stagnate and there will be less and less incentive for the people who make ISK out of buying PLEX for real cash to buy more of it... ofc, that's supposed to lower the ISK price enough to make it attractive enough for people to buy it to PLEX their accounts with again.
But some people just aren't going to come back. At least not anytime soon. The player count will continue to dip as people get turned off by the boom and bust cycles.
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March rabbit
Mosquito squadron The-Culture
2185
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Posted - 2017.05.27 08:29:27 -
[89] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: Moving within your country is not "moving". Also there's a well known fact that people who start down and reach to the top usually suffer from survivorship bias ("If I made it, why they don't try?"), forgetting the random opportunities they enjoyed.
Actually, yes moving within a country is still moving. Maybe not as stressful as moving to a foreign country, but at this point you are arguing over who is the tallest pygmy. One can say that flying to Mars is "not much different" from flying to Moon.... But some time you get exponential raise of difficulty by just adding one more step or condition....
But in general i agree: people CAN move if they really want it. The only thing that stops you - it is youself.
The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
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Indahmawar Fazmarai
5861
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Posted - 2017.05.27 13:47:25 -
[90] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: Moving within your country is not "moving". Also there's a well known fact that people who start down and reach to the top usually suffer from survivorship bias ("If I made it, why they don't try?"), forgetting the random opportunities they enjoyed.
Actually, yes moving within a country is still moving. Maybe not as stressful as moving to a foreign country, but at this point you are arguing over who is the tallest pygmy. One can say that flying to Mars is "not much different" from flying to Moon.... But some time you get exponential raise of difficulty by just adding one more step or condition.... But in general i agree: people CAN move if they really want it. The only thing that stops you - it is youself.
And frontiers. And the random but non-neglectable chance to die along the way if you're trying to move from a country where 1 month of subscription to EVE is a daily wage to one where it's a hourly wage.
Which is the thing that upset me about that stupid comment about "focusing" and "moving". An American moves to another city in the States and thinks he haves a effin clue on what it's like to move from a underdeveloped country to the "welcoming" and "open armed" developed ones. Very specially, the USA... |
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