Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Brigadine Ferathine
The Valiant Vanguard The Volition Cult
198
|
Posted - 2017.05.20 03:02:04 -
[1] - Quote
The Porpise uses the same hull and with max skills can carry just under 61,000 m3. Why on earth is the noctis limited to a few hundred? It is a salvaging ship. It should be able to carry a Havens worth of loot, salvage and an mtu instead it can only carry 1/3 of that. Dumb. It really is a useless ship. The bonuses aren't really worth the cost. I can just go out in a catalyst and use it like a noctis and it targets things better. CCP please fix. |
Eternus8lux8lucis
Primus Inc. LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
1562
|
Posted - 2017.05.20 03:27:52 -
[2] - Quote
Brigadine Ferathine wrote:The Porpise uses the same hull and with max skills can carry just under 61,000 m3. Why on earth is the noctis limited to a few hundred? It is a salvaging ship. It should be able to carry a Havens worth of loot, salvage and an mtu instead it can only carry 1/3 of that. Dumb. It really is a useless ship. The bonuses aren't really worth the cost. I can just go out in a catalyst and use it like a noctis and it targets things better. CCP please fix. LOL NO!
Have you heard anything I've said?
You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?
That's right.
Had to end sometime.
|
Brigadine Ferathine
The Valiant Vanguard The Volition Cult
198
|
Posted - 2017.05.20 03:31:55 -
[3] - Quote
Eternus8lux8lucis wrote:Brigadine Ferathine wrote:The Porpise uses the same hull and with max skills can carry just under 61,000 m3. Why on earth is the noctis limited to a few hundred? It is a salvaging ship. It should be able to carry a Havens worth of loot, salvage and an mtu instead it can only carry 1/3 of that. Dumb. It really is a useless ship. The bonuses aren't really worth the cost. I can just go out in a catalyst and use it like a noctis and it targets things better. CCP please fix. LOL NO! Care to elaborate? |
Xianax
Nordic Hawks
0
|
Posted - 2017.05.20 05:58:01 -
[4] - Quote
My Noctis has about 4500 m3 of space. I can run 5-6 level 4 missions and still not be full. |
Brigadine Ferathine
The Valiant Vanguard The Volition Cult
199
|
Posted - 2017.05.20 06:21:20 -
[5] - Quote
Xianax wrote:My Noctis has about 4500 m3 of space. I can run 5-6 level 4 missions and still not be full. uh what? That is not mathematically possible. It only has 3 low slots for expanders... |
Alhira Katserna
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
2461
|
Posted - 2017.05.20 06:53:02 -
[6] - Quote
Yes and 3 rig slots in which Medium Cargohold Optimization can fit. Noctis has 4602m-¦ space with 3 Expanded Cargoholds and 3 rigs. |
Nicolai Serkanner
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
694
|
Posted - 2017.05.20 08:00:22 -
[7] - Quote
Brigadine Ferathine wrote:The Porpise uses the same hull and with max skills can carry just under 61,000 m3. Why on earth is the noctis limited to a few hundred? It is a salvaging ship. It should be able to carry a Havens worth of loot, salvage and an mtu instead it can only carry 1/3 of that. Dumb. It really is a useless ship. The bonuses aren't really worth the cost. I can just go out in a catalyst and use it like a noctis and it targets things better. CCP please fix.
No.
|
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
1637
|
Posted - 2017.05.20 08:07:17 -
[8] - Quote
I support this. Imagine the wailing when a Noctis with a 20k cargohold full of loot and salvage blows up. And it's all the fault of the nasty gankers attacking defenseless and innocent ships.
Remove standings and insurance.
|
Piugattuk
Lima beans Corp
625
|
Posted - 2017.05.20 08:44:39 -
[9] - Quote
Mara Pahrdi wrote:I support this. Imagine the wailing when a Noctis with a 20k cargohold full of loot and salvage blows up. And it's all the fault of the nasty gankers attacking defenseless and innocent ships.
Me too, Je supporte le coq. |
Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
1218
|
Posted - 2017.05.20 08:46:27 -
[10] - Quote
Yes they visually look the same, yet the Porpoise and the Noctis serve two entirely different roles, so that answers the question about hold sizes and why one has way more than the other. As for questioning whether the Noctis has enough at all for it's job, it has plenty. A Noctis with a typical load-out can sweep several L4's worth before hitting max cargo. Many missions don't even match the Noctis' stock cargo cap.
The irony is the OP claiming the use of a dessy fitted to loot and salvage would be better in his mind. Thats exactly what the Noctis was introduced to replace: loot-dessies and slavage 'canes. And it does that just fine.
"Tomahawks?"
"----in' A, right?"
"Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each."
"----, you pay me half that and I'll hump in some c4 and blow the ---- out of it my own damn self."
|
|
Dotaros Kolar
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2017.05.20 14:23:53 -
[11] - Quote
Mara Pahrdi wrote:I support this. Imagine the wailing when a Noctis with a 20k cargohold full of loot and salvage blows up. And it's all the fault of the nasty gankers attacking defenseless and innocent ships.
It's not?
The gankers should not be allowed to live their strange hobby in high sec.....so they have to be punished.....i do not see why this is to discuss,this opinion has no alternative....
Just leave non pvp people alone...it's not THAT hard.... |
Archibald Thistlewaite III
The Royal Society for the Prevention of Miners
1203
|
Posted - 2017.05.20 15:17:04 -
[12] - Quote
Dotaros Kolar wrote:
Just leave non pvp people alone...it's not THAT hard....
Sadly its the non pvp people who are really pvp people that are the problem. Pvp is more than ship on ship combat. If you don't want to pvp go play on the test server where all pvp is purely consensual. Of course anything you accomplish on the test server is also worthless.
If I can't shoot your ship, then you shouldn't be able to undercut my market orders.
User of 'Bumblefck's Luscious & Luminous Mustachio Wax'
|
Brigadine Ferathine
The Valiant Vanguard The Volition Cult
199
|
Posted - 2017.05.20 17:14:40 -
[13] - Quote
Sobaan Tali wrote:Yes they visually look the same, yet the Porpoise and the Noctis serve two entirely different roles, so that answers the question about hold sizes and why one has way more than the other. As for questioning whether the Noctis has enough at all for it's job, it has plenty. A Noctis with a typical load-out can sweep several L4's worth before hitting max cargo. Many missions don't even match the Noctis' stock cargo cap.
The irony is the OP claiming the use of a dessy fitted to loot and salvage would be better in his mind. Thats exactly what the Noctis was introduced to replace: loot-dessies and slavage 'canes. And it does that just fine. Id didn't say I looted with the dessy. I loot in a different ship. Why bother using the noctis? I have to change ships 3 times to clear a site anyway. Ratting ship ---> looting ship---->salvaging ship. |
Dotaros Kolar
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2017.05.20 17:16:08 -
[14] - Quote
Archibald Thistlewaite III wrote:Dotaros Kolar wrote:
Just leave non pvp people alone...it's not THAT hard....
Sadly its the non pvp people who are really pvp people that are the problem. Pvp is more than ship on ship combat. If you don't want to pvp go play on the test server where all pvp is purely consensual. Of course anything you accomplish on the test server is also worthless. If I can't shoot your ship, then you shouldn't be able to undercut my market orders.
Disturbing a game via unwanted pvp and disturbing your market orders are two completely different things......
Number 1 is an act of agression that harasses the victim ,as it forces the victim in something it don't want,number 2 is just money loss and so not relevant...
Don't compare apples with pears |
Brigadine Ferathine
The Valiant Vanguard The Volition Cult
199
|
Posted - 2017.05.20 17:21:19 -
[15] - Quote
Sobaan Tali wrote:Yes they visually look the same, yet the Porpoise and the Noctis serve two entirely different roles, so that answers the question about hold sizes and why one has way more than the other. As for questioning whether the Noctis has enough at all for it's job, it has plenty. A Noctis with a typical load-out can sweep several L4's worth before hitting max cargo. Many missions don't even match the Noctis' stock cargo cap.
The irony is the OP claiming the use of a dessy fitted to loot and salvage would be better in his mind. Thats exactly what the Noctis was introduced to replace: loot-dessies and slavage 'canes. And it does that just fine. My point is that propulsion systems, life support, power generation and all other basic ship systems that that porpise has can fit inside the same shell. The shell makes it the same ship. There is clearly internal volume for more. the additional medium hardpoints do not take up 58,000 m3 of INTERNAL space. Does the noctis have that much wasted room within the bulkheads? |
Bjorn Tyrson
EVE University Ivy League
629
|
Posted - 2017.05.20 17:26:46 -
[16] - Quote
Sobaan Tali wrote:Yes they visually look the same, yet the Porpoise and the Noctis serve two entirely different roles, so that answers the question about hold sizes and why one has way more than the other. As for questioning whether the Noctis has enough at all for it's job, it has plenty. A Noctis with a typical load-out can sweep several L4's worth before hitting max cargo. Many missions don't even match the Noctis' stock cargo cap.
The irony is the OP claiming the use of a dessy fitted to loot and salvage would be better in his mind. Thats exactly what the Noctis was introduced to replace: loot-dessies and slavage 'canes. And it does that just fine.
And yet. Salvage dessies are still widely considered to be the better and safer option. So clearly the noctis has failed in its intended purpose.
Personally my issue isn't with the cargo bay size itself. Rather the balance between cargo, align time, and tank. A salvage cane has more tank, better align time, and if fit for cargo a comparable hold. A salvage dessie might have less tank, but aligns much faster and costs a fraction as much.
The only place I ever see the noctis get used is HS level 4s and even there it only barely justifies it's price tag. So clearly the ship is in need of some sort of rebalancing. |
Bjorn Tyrson
EVE University Ivy League
629
|
Posted - 2017.05.20 17:30:57 -
[17] - Quote
Dotaros Kolar wrote:Archibald Thistlewaite III wrote:Dotaros Kolar wrote:
Just leave non pvp people alone...it's not THAT hard....
Sadly its the non pvp people who are really pvp people that are the problem. Pvp is more than ship on ship combat. If you don't want to pvp go play on the test server where all pvp is purely consensual. Of course anything you accomplish on the test server is also worthless. If I can't shoot your ship, then you shouldn't be able to undercut my market orders. Disturbing a game via unwanted pvp and disturbing your market orders are two completely different things...... Number 1 is an act of agression that harasses the victim ,as it forces the victim in something it don't want,number 2 is just money loss and so not relevant... Don't compare apples with pears
Loosing a ship to unexpected pvp is just a loss of time and isk as well. So the comparison is perfectly apt. The big difference is that if I loose a ship I can quickly and easily buy a new one. People constantly undercutting my orders however disrupts my cash flow. Which affects every aspect of my game play. Making it a much more aggressive act |
mkint
1768
|
Posted - 2017.05.20 17:42:12 -
[18] - Quote
Bjorn Tyrson wrote: The only place I ever see the noctis get used is HS level 4s and even there it only barely justifies it's price tag. So clearly the ship is in need of some sort of rebalancing.
That's not a point of balance. Cost of highsec PVE (along with certain other parts of the game) is not an investment, it's a barrier to entry. A noctis could cost a billion isk, and as long as it makes you 1 extra isk per second, it will pay for itself over a long enough timeline given that risk of loss is essentially zero.
Should the noctis be rebalanced? Everything is worth consideration, but the answer is probably no, it does not. There might be room for a destroyer sized version that is more along the lines of existing salvage dessies (e.g. dessie sized cargo and mobility, 8 highs, bonus to salvaging but not tractors.) But the noctis itself is probably fine.
Maxim 6. If violence wasnGÇÖt your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.
|
Archibald Thistlewaite III
The Royal Society for the Prevention of Miners
1203
|
Posted - 2017.05.20 18:06:18 -
[19] - Quote
Dotaros Kolar wrote:
Disturbing a game via unwanted pvp and disturbing your market orders are two completely different things......
Both are pvp. If you don't want people to be able to shoot your ships, then I don't want people to be able to undercut my market orders. Also you shouldn't be able to earn any LP as that reduces my profits as well.
Dotaros Kolar wrote:Number 1 is an act of agression that harasses the victim ,as it forces the victim in something it don't want,number 2 is just money loss and so not relevant... If someone is harassing you file a support ticket. Blowing up spaceships in a game about blowing up spaceships is no more forcing someone to do something they don't want, than if I shoot you in a FPS game.
Oh and undercutting my market orders forces me to have to update my own orders, something I don't want to have to do.
If you don't want pvp go play on the test server where no-one can bother you.
User of 'Bumblefck's Luscious & Luminous Mustachio Wax'
|
Brigadine Ferathine
The Valiant Vanguard The Volition Cult
199
|
Posted - 2017.05.20 20:02:40 -
[20] - Quote
This has strayed so far away from the original post ISD please save us. |
|
Wanda Fayne
591
|
Posted - 2017.05.20 20:17:34 -
[21] - Quote
Brigadine Ferathine wrote:This has strayed so far away from the original post ISD please save us.
And move it to the appropriate forum Player Features and Ideas Discussion
You know better than to post this in GD.
your comments just confirms this whole idea is totally pathetic
-Lan Wang-
-
Locator Agents cease to function on Offline Players:
|
ISD Bubblemoon
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
67
|
Posted - 2017.05.20 21:29:14 -
[22] - Quote
Moved to Player Features and Ideas Discussion
ISD Bubblemoon
Lieutenant
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
|
Shallanna Yassavi
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
534
|
Posted - 2017.05.20 22:34:30 -
[23] - Quote
mkint wrote:Bjorn Tyrson wrote: The only place I ever see the noctis get used is HS level 4s and even there it only barely justifies it's price tag. So clearly the ship is in need of some sort of rebalancing.
That's not a point of balance. Cost of highsec PVE (along with certain other parts of the game) is not an investment, it's a barrier to entry. A noctis could cost a billion isk, and as long as it makes you 1 extra isk per second, it will pay for itself over a long enough timeline given that risk of loss is essentially zero. Should the noctis be rebalanced? Everything is worth consideration, but the answer is probably no, it does not. There might be room for a destroyer sized version that is more along the lines of existing salvage dessies (e.g. dessie sized cargo and mobility, 8 highs, bonus to salvaging but not tractors.) But the noctis itself is probably fine. The usual suspects in hisec have ganked Noctis before. Noctis would be ganked more often if they cost 1B because shiny killmails and tears.
A signature :o
|
Dior Ambraelle
University of Caille Gallente Federation
59
|
Posted - 2017.05.21 02:10:45 -
[24] - Quote
Bjorn Tyrson wrote:Sobaan Tali wrote:Yes they visually look the same, yet the Porpoise and the Noctis serve two entirely different roles, so that answers the question about hold sizes and why one has way more than the other. As for questioning whether the Noctis has enough at all for it's job, it has plenty. A Noctis with a typical load-out can sweep several L4's worth before hitting max cargo. Many missions don't even match the Noctis' stock cargo cap.
The irony is the OP claiming the use of a dessy fitted to loot and salvage would be better in his mind. Thats exactly what the Noctis was introduced to replace: loot-dessies and slavage 'canes. And it does that just fine. And yet. Salvage dessies are still widely considered to be the better and safer option. So clearly the noctis has failed in its intended purpose. Personally my issue isn't with the cargo bay size itself. Rather the balance between cargo, align time, and tank. A salvage cane has more tank, better align time, and if fit for cargo a comparable hold. A salvage dessie might have less tank, but aligns much faster and costs a fraction as much. The only place I ever see the noctis get used is HS level 4s and even there it only barely justifies it's price tag. So clearly the ship is in need of some sort of rebalancing. I heard that MTUs made the Noctis useless. They have better reach and are automatically collecting and looting wrecks. If you need a battleship to do the site, you are probably able to take the loot that worth something, and salvage the wrecks with drones. If something on the Noctis needs a buff then it's not the cargo hold, but the tractor beam and probably the defense.
By the way am I the only one who can see the "Primae" sticker on both the Noctis and the Porpoise?
If you want an intelligent argument, please do, I'm up for it!
But if you want a trolling contest, I will win it by simply not participating.
|
grgjegb gergerg
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
35
|
Posted - 2017.05.21 02:27:13 -
[25] - Quote
Dior Ambraelle wrote:By the way am I the only one who can see the "Primae" sticker on both the Noctis and the Porpoise?
Haha. Yeah, I noticed that recently.
If the MTU was smaller, and could auto-salvage, you could just drop one or a few in each room, and a bookmark, and grab large amounts with a fast hauler, pretty much completely obsoleting the Noctis.
Maybe if the Noctis had convenience? Like a combination tractor-salvager hislot that only works on Noctis hulls. Target 8 wrecks, suck them in, and they automatically pull apart wrecks when they get close?
I never run into Noctis cargo problems, though, idk what the OP is talking about. |
mkint
1768
|
Posted - 2017.05.21 02:31:33 -
[26] - Quote
Dior Ambraelle wrote:Bjorn Tyrson wrote:Sobaan Tali wrote:Yes they visually look the same, yet the Porpoise and the Noctis serve two entirely different roles, so that answers the question about hold sizes and why one has way more than the other. As for questioning whether the Noctis has enough at all for it's job, it has plenty. A Noctis with a typical load-out can sweep several L4's worth before hitting max cargo. Many missions don't even match the Noctis' stock cargo cap.
The irony is the OP claiming the use of a dessy fitted to loot and salvage would be better in his mind. Thats exactly what the Noctis was introduced to replace: loot-dessies and slavage 'canes. And it does that just fine. And yet. Salvage dessies are still widely considered to be the better and safer option. So clearly the noctis has failed in its intended purpose. Personally my issue isn't with the cargo bay size itself. Rather the balance between cargo, align time, and tank. A salvage cane has more tank, better align time, and if fit for cargo a comparable hold. A salvage dessie might have less tank, but aligns much faster and costs a fraction as much. The only place I ever see the noctis get used is HS level 4s and even there it only barely justifies it's price tag. So clearly the ship is in need of some sort of rebalancing. I heard that MTUs made the Noctis useless. They have better reach and are automatically collecting and looting wrecks. If you need a battleship to do the site, you are probably able to take the loot that worth something, and salvage the wrecks with drones. If something on the Noctis needs a buff then it's not the cargo hold, but the tractor beam and probably the defense. By the way am I the only one who can see the "Primae" sticker on both the Noctis and the Porpoise? There are obviously different mission techniques, but imo, if you are looting and/or salvaging, sure drop a MTU in each room, but you've still got to come back to pick up the MTU. A noctis with 8 bonused salvagers can salvage wrecks almost as fast as it can lock them. No other ship can salvage as fast, whether you use tractors or not.
"I want it" isn't a good enough reason for a rebalance. Prove it needs it. Go sit outside a station at a mission hub, collect the best data you can, ask a CSM member to ask a dev for actual usage statistics. I'm seeing a whole lot of [citation needed] in this thread.
Maxim 6. If violence wasnGÇÖt your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.
|
Sir BloodArgon Aulmais
Fortis Fortuna Adiuvatt Dot Dot Dot
131
|
Posted - 2017.05.21 02:59:54 -
[27] - Quote
Alhira Katserna wrote:Yes and 3 rig slots in which Medium Cargohold Optimization can fit. Noctis has 4602m-¦ space with 3 Expanded Cargoholds and 3 rigs.
Brigadine Ferathine wrote:Xianax wrote:My Noctis has about 4500 m3 of space. I can run 5-6 level 4 missions and still not be full. uh what? That is not mathematically possible. It only has 3 low slots for expanders...
If you can't do this basic math, why should you determine how balanced a ship should be?
Also 3 ships to salvage? No. Just no. Drop MTU from the ratting ship. (or several) and come back to cleanup with the noctis. I used to be in your alliance, I ran those nullsec sites and did it in the above way, sometimes queing up 3 hubs to loot and salvage and I switched ships once.
You need to get gud and stop whining about how the game isnt adapted to suit YOU. |
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
1248
|
Posted - 2017.05.21 14:42:03 -
[28] - Quote
-1 to the OP the Noctis needs help but it does not need a larger cargo bay.
mkint wrote:Should the noctis be rebalanced? Everything is worth consideration, but the answer is probably no, it does not. There might be room for a destroyer sized version that is more along the lines of existing salvage dessies (e.g. dessie sized cargo and mobility, 8 highs, bonus to salvaging but not tractors.) But the noctis itself is probably fine. Yes it does need a re-balance.
Bringing the align time of the Noctis down into the range of all the other ships in the game with about the same mass would be a really good place to start.
Adding a better senor system would be another, why in the name of all things usable would a designer put a worse than battleship sensor system into a vessel designed specifically to salvage wrecks of all sizes is beyond imagination. Yes I know have to be careful here because someone may want to us a 70 million ISK ship as tackle so we can't go crazy here.
Better bonus to tractor range and speed would be appreciated as well, seems to me that a ship and fittings specifically designed for the salvage role should be able to reach at least the same distance as those on the MTU. |
mkint
1770
|
Posted - 2017.05.21 16:32:13 -
[29] - Quote
Donnachadh wrote:-1 to the OP the Noctis needs help but it does not need a larger cargo bay.
Yes it does need a re-balance.
[citation needed]
Quote: Bringing the align time of the Noctis down into the range of all the other ships in the game with about the same mass would be a really good place to start.
Adding a better senor system would be another, why in the name of all things usable would a designer put a worse than battleship sensor system into a vessel designed specifically to salvage wrecks of all sizes is beyond imagination. Yes I know have to be careful here because someone may want to us a 70 million ISK ship as tackle so we can't go crazy here.
Better bonus to tractor range and speed would be appreciated as well, seems to me that a ship and fittings specifically designed for the salvage role should be able to reach at least the same distance as those on the MTU.
"I want it" is not the same thing as "need".
There are a lot of good reasons to leave it alone, most of which can be classified under the Cobra Effect. Likewise, no one has said yet why it needs a buff. Begging for "I wannit" buffs just sound like toddlers throwing tantrums. From where I sit, I think the noctis and all the salvage-made-easy tools could probably use a bit of a nerf, based on the exact same argument of "I wannit." Shoot, I bet I can come up with better numbers suggesting a nerf would be better than a buff.
Maxim 6. If violence wasnGÇÖt your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.
|
Matthias Ancaladron
Wrath of Angels Solitaire.
305
|
Posted - 2017.05.21 19:22:35 -
[30] - Quote
I'm not enjoying the noctis.
Even with stabs its pretty slow. And 1400m3 of cargo isn't much at all. |
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |