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Khara Hirl
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
3
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Posted - 2017.05.22 22:11:57 -
[31] - Quote
[quote=Shawn en Tilavine]BREAKING NEWS: CCP makes the game; players make the rules. Whatever rule CCP chooses to impose, good players will find ways to exploit it to their benefit. Nothing new here. Works as intended.
Uh no... I am a Senior Game Moderator and have been for 3 years on another mmorpg and no matter how much you want to think that you make the rules as a player, I can tell you the Dev team has the final say on everything. Also this is clearly not working as intended, if it is, ccp is out of their minds thinking this is even close to tolerable in an mmorpg in 2017. Times have changed, and I will stick by my original statement it's abusing a game mechanic that maybe they didn't realize would happen.
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Khara Hirl
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
3
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Posted - 2017.05.22 22:14:31 -
[32] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:Citadels should be or not be accessible, not may or may not be accessible.
There should be an easy way to check it remotely and in the show info panel, and there should be time delay when switching modes, and it should be visible as sheduling in show info panel. Every real, not trollish system works like that. EVE is a game about griefing. All new system must be designed so it allows the gratuitous griefing of someone. That's the real spirit of EVE, and CCP are the largest griefers of all.
No.. eve is not about griefing in fact I know this because you can't be racist in this game and you can't harass people or you can banned. this right here is proof positive the game is not designed to grief people or the point of the game is to grief people. I am not asking this game turn into a carebear world of warcraft, and neither did I ever get scammed. but I can tell you this is a serious issue and it's not fair or realistic that a new player can lose all their money they earned over 3 months from 1 contract that they didn't understand because some jack ass locked them out of a citadel because the game allows that to happen.
You don't see this game punishing other professions in this manner, no other profession through a game mechanic such as this at a citadel can lose billions of isk at one time, not one other single profession takes as much of a risk as haulers do, and by god damn it we need protected, this is bullshit. |
ISD Max Trix
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1860
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Posted - 2017.05.22 22:29:00 -
[33] - Quote
It has been the same with contracts for years now. This same situation you describe has been experienced by traders in various nullsec stations across new eden.
ISD Max Trix
Lieutenant
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
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Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
33902
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Posted - 2017.05.22 22:47:07 -
[34] - Quote
Maybe you could use another character made by you to access the citadel and then contract all stuff to that character so he can do something with it.
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Revis Owen
The Conference Elite CODE.
514
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Posted - 2017.05.22 22:50:32 -
[35] - Quote
Khara Hirl wrote:I am a Senior Game Moderator and have been for 3 years on another mmorpg
Welp that's it boys, she wins the argument.
Agent of the New Order
http://www.minerbumping.com/p/the-code.html
If you do not have a current Mining Permit, please contact me for issuance.
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Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6492
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Posted - 2017.05.22 22:51:37 -
[36] - Quote
Khara Hirl wrote:[quote=Shawn en Tilavine]BREAKING NEWS: CCP makes the game; players make the rules. Whatever rule CCP chooses to impose, good players will find ways to exploit it to their benefit. Nothing new here. Works as intended.
Uh no... I am a Senior Game Moderator and have been for 3 years on another mmorpg and no matter how much you want to think that you make the rules as a player, I can tell you the Dev team has the final say on everything. Also this is clearly not working as intended, if it is, ccp is out of their minds thinking this is even close to tolerable in an mmorpg in 2017. Times have changed, and I will stick by my original statement it's abusing a game mechanic that maybe they didn't realize would happen.
EVE is not like other games. The Devs leave loopholes like this in on purpose. The Devs are not hear to hold your hand and pat your poo-poo. They will, in all likelihood, point and laugh though.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
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Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6492
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Posted - 2017.05.22 22:57:22 -
[37] - Quote
Khara Hirl wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:Citadels should be or not be accessible, not may or may not be accessible.
There should be an easy way to check it remotely and in the show info panel, and there should be time delay when switching modes, and it should be visible as sheduling in show info panel. Every real, not trollish system works like that. EVE is a game about griefing. All new system must be designed so it allows the gratuitous griefing of someone. That's the real spirit of EVE, and CCP are the largest griefers of all. No.. eve is not about griefing in fact I know this because you can't be racist in this game and you can't harass people or you can banned. this right here is proof positive the game is not designed to grief people or the point of the game is to grief people. I am not asking this game turn into a carebear world of warcraft, and neither did I ever get scammed. but I can tell you this is a serious issue and it's not fair or realistic that a new player can lose all their money they earned over 3 months from 1 contract that they didn't understand because some jack ass locked them out of a citadel because the game allows that to happen. You don't see this game punishing other professions in this manner, no other profession through a game mechanic such as this at a citadel can lose billions of isk at one time, not one other single profession takes as much of a risk as haulers do, and by god damn it we need protected, this is bullshit.
It is your responsibility to manage and mitigate your risk. You have learned a valuable lesson and you have been given a strategy to avoid that risk in the future. To be quite honest this topic should be closed now. The devs need do nothing here.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
28282
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Posted - 2017.05.22 22:58:12 -
[38] - Quote
Khara Hirl wrote:Uh no... I am a Senior Game Moderator and have been for 3 years on another mmorpg Completely irrelevant, you're not a senior game moderator here nor is Eve that other MMO. Different games have different rules, being able to lock somebody out of a citadel is within the rules of this particular game.
Oh, and it's also a fallacy, argumentum ad verecundiam.
Quote: and no matter how much you want to think that you make the rules as a player, I can tell you the Dev team has the final say on everything. While you're correct in saying that the Dev team have the final say, it is also correct for us to claim that we make some of the rules using the tools that CCP have given us; such is the nature of the sandbox.
Quote:Also this is clearly not working as intended, if it is, ccp is out of their minds thinking this is even close to tolerable in an mmorpg in 2017. You've been told by an official CCP representative and forum moderator that it is working as intended, what you think is irrelevant in the face what CCP say is and is not working as intended.
Quote:Times have changed, and I will stick by my original statement it's abusing a game mechanic that maybe they didn't realize would happen. Of course they realised, it's been happening for years with player owned outposts, if CCP considered it to be abuse of a game mechanic they would have done something years ago.
While times may have indeed changed, Eve has never followed the norm for other MMO's; that's a large part the appeal of Eve FFS.
If you don't like or can't accept Eve for what it is then vote with your wallet, just like the hundreds of thousands before you that didn't like or couldn't accept Eve for what it is. It's not a game for everyone, and you appear to fall smack bang in the middle of the group that Eve isn't for.
In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.
New Player FAQ
Feyd's Survival Pack
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
28282
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Posted - 2017.05.22 23:01:44 -
[39] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:EVE is not like other games. The Devs leave loopholes like this in on purpose. The Devs are not hear to hold your hand and pat your poo-poo. They will, in all likelihood, point and laugh though. If anybody finds Eve holding their hand, they're about to lose an arm; and any accompanying jewellery that is attached to it and its extremities.
In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.
New Player FAQ
Feyd's Survival Pack
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Aedaxus
Digital Zone Corp
58
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Posted - 2017.05.22 23:09:15 -
[40] - Quote
Shawn en Tilavine wrote:BREAKING NEWS: CCP makes the game; players make the rules. Players don't make the rules, CCP made the rules in the EULA and the Terms of Service. You'll learn after a few permabans.
The contract system is risky but at least offers a sign at the player owned structure contracts, so stop taking them. Let the POS owners complain and ragequit. CCP starts to care once their income dwindles.
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
28285
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Posted - 2017.05.22 23:12:50 -
[41] - Quote
Aedaxus wrote:Shawn en Tilavine wrote:BREAKING NEWS: CCP makes the game; players make the rules. Players don't make the rules, CCP made the rules in the EULA and the Terms of Service. You'll learn after a few permabans. The contract system is risky but at least offers a sign at the player owned structure contracts, so stop taking them. Let the POS owners complain and ragequit. CCP starts to care once their income dwindles. CCP provide a fairly loose set of basic rules for us to play hard and fast with, things like no racism, sexism, RL threats etc are common sense rules; outside of those basic rules we make our own, normally at the end of a gun.
In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.
New Player FAQ
Feyd's Survival Pack
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Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6492
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Posted - 2017.05.22 23:13:23 -
[42] - Quote
Aedaxus wrote:Shawn en Tilavine wrote:BREAKING NEWS: CCP makes the game; players make the rules. Players don't make the rules, CCP made the rules in the EULA and the Terms of Service. You'll learn after a few permabans. The contract system is risky but at least offers a sign at the player owned structure contracts, so stop taking them. Let the POS owners complain and ragequit. CCP starts to care once their income dwindles.
Yes, CCP created the EULA and TOS, but every other "norm", "standard", "rule", whatever you want to call it is a result of players interacting.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
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Shawn en Tilavine
Unity of Suns Warped Intentions
18
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Posted - 2017.05.22 23:48:25 -
[43] - Quote
Aedaxus wrote:Shawn en Tilavine wrote:BREAKING NEWS: CCP makes the game; players make the rules. Players don't make the rules, CCP made the rules in the EULA and the Terms of Service. You'll learn after a few permabans Yeah, ok. Lol. I would think you would know better, having been around for so long.
"The world ain't fair, there is no Santa Claus, and not everyone gets a F'n trophy just for showing up. Welcome to the real world. Welcome to Eve."
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Coralas
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
131
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Posted - 2017.05.22 23:59:04 -
[44] - Quote
Khara Hirl wrote:Mr Epeen wrote:If this becomes a big problem, people will simply stop taking those contracts. It's self correcting. No need to howl for CCP because you don't bother to check the drop off location and get blapped. Mr Epeen No no, see what you're not getting isn't that I can't pay attention to contracts, my point is that a mechanic is in place that lets people REJECT your entry even after you have a courier contract going to that citadel, this can be fixed by allowing deliveries outside the citadel.
Contract -> issuer -> contracts -> finished contracts.
No no, see what you are not getting, is that you are not paying attention to the most important detail in the contract.
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Lulu Lunette
Savage Moon Society
1615
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Posted - 2017.05.23 00:36:15 -
[45] - Quote
I have to agree with the OP that it's very abusive.
@lunettelulu7
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Eve Griefer
Paper Cats
14
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Posted - 2017.05.23 02:46:01 -
[46] - Quote
I should post on the appropriate character (i.e. hauler capable), but there is a channel (Hauler's Channel) and they are (maybe were?) maintaining whitelists and blacklists for HS citadels. Also, using two characters for handling contracts (as was pointed out) is sensible. Lastly, let the contract timeout rather than fail early. You may get lucky and it may annoy the scammer. |
Mr Mieyli
Hedion University Amarr Empire
620
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Posted - 2017.05.23 02:56:09 -
[47] - Quote
Wanda Fayne wrote:because choosing "not to play" should never be a design goal...
Ha, good luck getting anyone to agree to that statement here. Sometimes I seriously believe that the 'leave-everything-as-it-is' crowd is just depressed and hopeless that EVE could ever grow large. Its either that or playing eve feeds a superiority complex, but in truth EVE is easy, you guys are no different or better than any other MMO community.
A case for more AoE in EvE
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Kaeden 3142
State Protectorate Caldari State
9
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Posted - 2017.05.23 03:30:39 -
[48] - Quote
Being a courier contract should be just that and the accessibility of the station should be known . But given the hive of villainy of eve it doesn't surprise me. |
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
15881
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Posted - 2017.05.23 03:35:55 -
[49] - Quote
Mr Mieyli wrote:Wanda Fayne wrote:because choosing "not to play" should never be a design goal... Ha, good luck getting anyone to agree to that statement here. Sometimes I seriously believe that the 'leave-everything-as-it-is' crowd is just depressed and hopeless that EVE could ever grow large. Its either that or playing eve feeds a superiority complex, but in truth EVE is easy, you guys are no different or better than any other MMO community.
I'm sorry you continue to be unhappy with EVE and apparen'ty unhappy about the fact that more people aren't jumping on your 'progress' bandwagon, but that's a personal problem.
Some of us like what it is and want that continue rather than watch CCP stupidly chase the masses that won't come no matter what they try to do. Our experience so far with EVE (and other games) is that the choice is not between more people or less people, it's between people who like what EVE (and other sandboxy adult oriented games) is (which is a unique game that isn't for everyone one), and no people at all. |
Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6494
|
Posted - 2017.05.23 03:40:32 -
[50] - Quote
Mr Mieyli wrote:Wanda Fayne wrote:because choosing "not to play" should never be a design goal... Ha, good luck getting anyone to agree to that statement here. Sometimes I seriously believe that the 'leave-everything-as-it-is' crowd is just depressed and hopeless that EVE could ever grow large. Its either that or playing eve feeds a superiority complex, but in truth EVE is easy, you guys are no different or better than any other MMO community.
Nobody agrees with it because it is patently false. Just because you can't complete a given contract you can't do anything else in game...at all?
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
8482
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Posted - 2017.05.23 03:43:29 -
[51] - Quote
Was there a good reason to lock the hauler out of the station?
Or was it done SOLELY for the purpose of griefing?
Or maybe it's done by people who hate citadels? Just like not honoring ransoms (and spreading the "common sense" that nobody honored them) with the intent to wreck lowsec piracy?
Those would be my questions.
Meanwhile the usual answers from the usual people. Nothing new there.
We all know how the game is affected when mechanics favor one side over the other, right? But the usual suspects are not trying to play the game to win it, they want to destroy it. Too bad Tyler Durden never really existed. He won't be giving awards.
Were it up to meGäó, hauling contracts would be dead anyway. Let them give a griefing that nobody shows up for.
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
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Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6494
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Posted - 2017.05.23 03:44:07 -
[52] - Quote
Kaeden 3142 wrote:Being a courier contract should be just that and the accessibility of the station should be known . But given the hive of villainy of eve it doesn't surprise me.
Risk....the notion of risk should be present and as has been pointed out there is a warning that the destination station may not be accessible. You take a risk...and it didn't work out...oh well, learn from your mistake.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
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Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6494
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Posted - 2017.05.23 03:51:16 -
[53] - Quote
Eve Griefer wrote:I should post on the appropriate character (i.e. hauler capable), but there is a channel (Hauler's Channel) and they are (maybe were?) maintaining whitelists and blacklists for HS citadels. Also, using two characters for handling contracts (as was pointed out) is sensible. Lastly, let the contract timeout rather than fail early. You may get lucky and it may annoy the scammer.
Why not do this? Go to the Market Discussion forum and create a list there. Put these guys on it as your first entrant. As others post their experiences you can add to the list, both the good and the bad.
Instead we get the usual whining about wanting CCP to do their work for them so they don't have face any actual risk.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
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Kaeden 3142
State Protectorate Caldari State
9
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Posted - 2017.05.23 04:04:11 -
[54] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Kaeden 3142 wrote:Being a courier contract should be just that and the accessibility of the station should be known . But given the hive of villainy of eve it doesn't surprise me. Risk....the notion of risk should be present and as has been pointed out there is a warning that the destination station may not be accessible. You take a risk...and it didn't work out...oh well, learn from your mistake.
agreed. Though, those contract conditions were meant for player own stations in Nul sec, A hi sec courier contract you could assume its of lower risk. It places all courier contracts to player own citadels at high risk. |
Wanda Fayne
600
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Posted - 2017.05.23 04:12:27 -
[55] - Quote
where's my facepalm emoji...
"your comments just confirms this whole idea is totally pathetic" -Lan Wang-
- -
"hub humping station gamey neutral logi warspam wankery" -Ralph King-Griffin-
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Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6494
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Posted - 2017.05.23 04:30:33 -
[56] - Quote
Kaeden 3142 wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Kaeden 3142 wrote:Being a courier contract should be just that and the accessibility of the station should be known . But given the hive of villainy of eve it doesn't surprise me. Risk....the notion of risk should be present and as has been pointed out there is a warning that the destination station may not be accessible. You take a risk...and it didn't work out...oh well, learn from your mistake. agreed. Though, those contract conditions were meant for player own stations in Nul sec, A hi sec courier contract you could assume its of lower risk. It places all courier contracts to player own citadels at high risk.
It is lower risk, it is not NS where you'll have 4 supers and a titan dropped on your JF.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
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Mr Mieyli
Hedion University Amarr Empire
621
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Posted - 2017.05.23 04:32:50 -
[57] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Mr Mieyli wrote:Wanda Fayne wrote:because choosing "not to play" should never be a design goal... Ha, good luck getting anyone to agree to that statement here. Sometimes I seriously believe that the 'leave-everything-as-it-is' crowd is just depressed and hopeless that EVE could ever grow large. Its either that or playing eve feeds a superiority complex, but in truth EVE is easy, you guys are no different or better than any other MMO community. I'm sorry you continue to be unhappy with EVE and apparen'ty unhappy about the fact that more people aren't jumping on your 'progress' bandwagon, but that's a personal problem. Some of us like what it is and want that continue rather than watch CCP stupidly chase the masses that won't come no matter what they try to do. Our experience so far with EVE (and other games) is that the choice is not between more people or less people, it's between people who like what EVE (and other sandboxy adult oriented games) is (which is a unique game that isn't for everyone one), and no people at all.
Jesus man how many times do I need to repeat to you that I don't want to ruin your game before it gets through to you. I have no power over the course of the games development more than my voice on these forums, here I can influence others.
Stop stalking me dude.
A case for more AoE in EvE
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FIX IT
Numbers Inc
20
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Posted - 2017.05.23 05:43:13 -
[58] - Quote
How about an option to not sell to citadels, and not deliver to citadels. A check mark - do not show sell orders in citadels, do not fulfill buy orders in citadels, do not show contracts to and from citadels.
Surely that is a fair option? If we are going to have a free market lets have a real free market, if I don't want to sell to someone I should not be forced to sell to them. If I don't want to deliver to any citadel, let me easily filter it out.
If they have an easy UI option to stop people from docking with their citadels we should have a similar UI option to black list them. |
Tuttomenui II
Aliastra Gallente Federation
617
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Posted - 2017.05.23 06:05:31 -
[59] - Quote
Gaia Ma'chello wrote:I actually like the idea of being able to have courier contracts completed without docking. It means I can have stuff delivered to me without having to worry that in doing so I would be letting an enemy dock in my station.
This is how that would look in Eve if it was implemented to fit in to Eve.
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Coralas
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
131
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Posted - 2017.05.23 06:12:38 -
[60] - Quote
Kaeden 3142 wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Kaeden 3142 wrote:Being a courier contract should be just that and the accessibility of the station should be known . But given the hive of villainy of eve it doesn't surprise me. Risk....the notion of risk should be present and as has been pointed out there is a warning that the destination station may not be accessible. You take a risk...and it didn't work out...oh well, learn from your mistake. agreed. Though, those contract conditions were meant for player own stations in Nul sec, A hi sec courier contract you could assume its of lower risk. It places all courier contracts to player own citadels at high risk.
(a) you can accept outbound contracts from within the citadel, which means you shouldn't get caught by starting points being inaccessible.
(b) the public courier contract list clearly indicates when the destination is a citadel, ie you don't have to click on a contract to see that its going to a citadel, so the time taken to avoid citadel destination contracts is trivial.
(c) the character issuing the contract has a public contract history for its public contracts.
(d) over time citadel destination contracts should raise in price, so it should become worth your time to sort through them to reduce the scam chance to very little by only taking contracts from issuers with good histories.
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