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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Valdr Auduin
CatPack
6
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Posted - 2017.06.12 11:08:49 -
[691] - Quote
PlayboyBunnyWabbit wrote:It really seems CCP is chasing symptoms not causes. The invisible hand suggests players will flow into whichever isk making area which gives the most return. Swinging the nerf bat here just means the stated too much isk problem will pop up in some other area. It also suggests no matter how much you swing the problem will always come back.
This, you can't shut pandora's box, the evil is already out and hope is maimed, they aren't going to fix these problems and put evil back in the box without a whole lot more effort than it took creating the problem. |
Andrew Freecss
The 1st Regiment Brotherhood of Spacers
0
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Posted - 2017.06.12 15:09:18 -
[692] - Quote
Dear CCP!
Did you see your own statistics? Or you just dont care about the fact? I'll write to you, to save you 5 mins:
FACTS! - from May 2017
Only Delve alone minded 22,49% of the WHOLE EVE mined value Deklein 5,38% Impass 4,96% Querious 4,25%
So in all, 4 regions mined 37,08% of whole game value. Is it fair to punish everybody else because few nolifers?
(Just an easy stupid solution to your problem: if there are 31+ excavator mining drons in space for more than 5 mins in a system, the whole system gets 25% TIDI for 30 mins. )
You know where your problem comes from, but you refuse to solve it properly.
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Graabeerd Khagah
MoonFyre BattleGroup Holdings
181
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Posted - 2017.06.12 16:53:09 -
[693] - Quote
Well, considering I haven't gotten to the upper tiers of mining ships, I can declare without fault I have won Eve.
The only true nerf I have seen is the respawn timers of ice anoms which is every four (4) hours after the last rock has been depleted. All these other changes to the Roaqual and mining excavators are now no longer on my list of goals I have set.
@CCP Fozzie, I can understand these nerfs you are putting in Tuesday, but you failed to mention this would affect ALL of Nulsec, both Sov/NPC. NOT just a small area from what I am reading as you say. However I will give you the benefit of the doubt as far as this goes.
Thank you and have a great week 07. |
John Thickmusk
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
0
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Posted - 2017.06.12 17:52:18 -
[694] - Quote
cant wait for star citizen...i literally cant |
Nick Bison
Serenity Engineering and Transport Company Circle-Of-Two
331
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Posted - 2017.06.12 18:28:51 -
[695] - Quote
I see some adjustments to the carrier/super fighter nerfs, and I guess that's okay.
I also figure that the industrialist community didn't whine and cry hard enough (also no CSM give a sh*t) to stop nerfing the excavators. Keep the respawn rates for the anoms, that's probably going to accomplish most of the "delve" imbalance.
Please stand with me a pour more mining tears and maybe we'll be heard ...
Nothing clever at this time.
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Grognard Commissar
Splinter Cell Operations inPanic
27
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Posted - 2017.06.12 20:40:02 -
[696] - Quote
the problem si not these superawesome ships... it's the fact that... well... there's not as much destruction in the economy. citadels are a PITA to take out. mebbe huses/raitarus should only get one reinforce timer? |
Grognard Commissar
Splinter Cell Operations inPanic
27
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Posted - 2017.06.12 20:45:57 -
[697] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Radious Servasse wrote:CCP is nerfing mining. "The economy is unhealthy." 32 pages of rage in a week. CCP is nerfing carrier ratting. 51 pages of rage in a day.
CCP thinks the economy is in bad health because of too much isk. You don't nerf rorqs and carrier ratting at the same time. Rorqs account for most of the mining done in New Eden and now they are being nerved because of the bad economy. CCP has not changed a thing, just ruined the amount of isk that is to be made. Since ore has subjective value based on supply and demand, rorqs in the long term won't be too bad off as ore prices rise (Except for the new tears involved in mining). Carrier ratting on the other hand are going to be screwed.
Looks like CCP is delibratly trying to kill it's long-term players. A rapid rise in the money supply can be bad for an economy. It can lead to inflation. Now while there is not much inflation at the moment, letting this go until prices start rising dramatically is probably not a good thing. As for minerals the mineral price index has been falling for the past 13 months. This suggests that ALOT of minerals are entering the markets and depressing prices. Both of these are two macro trends are troubling at the very least. Now, perhaps if you cut out the hysterics and engaged your brain a bit you'd see that these while unfortunate for rorqual and carrier/super pilots, these changes should probably be made. you realize it's literally your alliance that's responsible, riiight? |
Terminal Insanity
Mosquito Squadron The-Culture
1019
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Posted - 2017.06.13 03:37:53 -
[698] - Quote
im pretty sure the only thing ccp took into account with the nerfs is how many new mining accounts youll open up to maintain the same isk level that your single rorqual could have mined.
this is just about forcing people to multibox more
"War declarations are never officially considered griefing and are not a bannable offense, and it has been repeatedly stated by the developers that the possibility for non-consensual PvP is an intended feature." - CCP
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Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6648
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Posted - 2017.06.13 05:07:37 -
[699] - Quote
Sgt Ocker wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:BESTER bm wrote:Hroovitnir wrote:My suggested Change is that the Industrial Core creates some form of Fatigue after Prolonged use that will greatly diminish the mining yields. The idea i have is that it will function as a sort of Jump Fatigue that will exponentially grow and affect the mining yields of the drones. This ill in turn make the economy balance back out and keep the risk to reward ration as high as possible.
Wait, what? Someone who actually thinks this through and comes up with what seems to be a viable and functional alternative to the endless nerf stream? But don't worry, CCP will ignore anything they did not come up with themselves. They will just push through what they think works even if it is proven to be broken. It is still a nerf.... And will it accomplish it's goal? Suppose a players go from mining a couple, say, times a week for 3 hours at a time to mining 6 times a week for 1 hour and thereby avoid the fatigue and the negative effect on mining output? We are back where we started. Seriously? The problem isn't the guys who mine a few hours a week as you suggest, it is those who have 40 or 50 or more Rorquals sitting in anoms for 12 to 14 hours per day and if adding a fatigue mechanic to Rorquals would help fix that then i say GO FOR IT. Fix the problem without nerfing the little guy.
40 to 50 Rorquals...yeah, sure.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
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Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6648
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Posted - 2017.06.13 05:10:35 -
[700] - Quote
Grognard Commissar wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Radious Servasse wrote:CCP is nerfing mining. "The economy is unhealthy." 32 pages of rage in a week. CCP is nerfing carrier ratting. 51 pages of rage in a day.
CCP thinks the economy is in bad health because of too much isk. You don't nerf rorqs and carrier ratting at the same time. Rorqs account for most of the mining done in New Eden and now they are being nerved because of the bad economy. CCP has not changed a thing, just ruined the amount of isk that is to be made. Since ore has subjective value based on supply and demand, rorqs in the long term won't be too bad off as ore prices rise (Except for the new tears involved in mining). Carrier ratting on the other hand are going to be screwed.
Looks like CCP is delibratly trying to kill it's long-term players. A rapid rise in the money supply can be bad for an economy. It can lead to inflation. Now while there is not much inflation at the moment, letting this go until prices start rising dramatically is probably not a good thing. As for minerals the mineral price index has been falling for the past 13 months. This suggests that ALOT of minerals are entering the markets and depressing prices. Both of these are two macro trends are troubling at the very least. Now, perhaps if you cut out the hysterics and engaged your brain a bit you'd see that these while unfortunate for rorqual and carrier/super pilots, these changes should probably be made. you realize it's literally your alliance that's responsible, riiight?
No. Yes Goons rat alot and mine alot, but they are not the sum total of the problem. If you think this you are simply delusional. And in any event. Nerf these things. The money supply growth rate needs to be brought under control, and mineral prices should be allowed to continue to decline.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
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Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6648
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Posted - 2017.06.13 05:12:07 -
[701] - Quote
Terminal Insanity wrote:im pretty sure the only thing ccp took into account with the nerfs is how many new mining accounts youll open up to maintain the same isk level that your single rorqual could have mined.
this is just about forcing people to multibox more
So if your employer cuts your pay, you work 2x the number of hours right?
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
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alex tow
Real One Corp Axiom Vocation Alliance
3
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Posted - 2017.06.13 10:02:34 -
[702] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Terminal Insanity wrote:im pretty sure the only thing ccp took into account with the nerfs is how many new mining accounts youll open up to maintain the same isk level that your single rorqual could have mined.
this is just about forcing people to multibox more So if your employer cuts your pay, you work 2x the number of hours right?
Well, if you need minerals, some will do :)
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Jamu Sarain
Serenity Cartel The Bastion
0
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Posted - 2017.06.13 11:33:12 -
[703] - Quote
So correct me if I am wrong here.
You put Rorqs on grid in Ascension, I have no issues there what so ever, as they should be on grid, you gave rorq pilots immense mining abilities to compensate for the risk/cost factor, again great no issues.
Slowly you are removing the great mining abilities, so now with this current patch, the Rorq has only a slightly better yield than 1 Hulk, oh but it boosts as well, big deal. Soon it will just be the same old Rorq as pre-ascension only on grid, so essentially will just be a 10b useless sitting duck.
A 10b-12b fitted rorq on grid that gives boosts and mines the same as 1 hulk, yep I see the logic
WTS Rorq, buying a hulk...costs less, gets into warp quicker....mines as good as a rorq for a fraction of the cost.
So much for the beast of a miner you boasted about in your Ascension expansion notes hey CCP.
Concerned for the eve economy, sounds more like concerned for the CCP wallet IMO!! |
Millpucky
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
4
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Posted - 2017.06.13 11:36:58 -
[704] - Quote
This is hilariously obscene. |
Rexxar Santaro
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
26
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Posted - 2017.06.13 12:25:26 -
[705] - Quote
Poor mining goonsGǪ |
Hoko Sal
Fearless Tiger. Tactical Narcotics Team
0
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Posted - 2017.06.13 12:31:08 -
[706] - Quote
20 minutes for the Small Asteroid Cluster 1 hour for the Medium Asteroid Cluster 2 hours for the Large Asteroid Cluster variants 4 hours for the Enormous Asteroid Cluster variants 5 hours for the Colossal Asteroid Cluster variants
OMG!! now we can finally get EVERY nullsec system 's col belt to Onyx Ochre only! as no one is gonna mine it to clear a belt that well.... wont exist while they wait to go to sleep.
That's your plan isn't in Fozzie? sadistic and childish self achievements? ... come on, be honest with me...
*Cancels Eve for Netflix subscription for same price*
Ohhh!!! maybe your leaving the Dev team to work for Netflixs....clearly need to rethink my game plan here... |
Brem Thellere
Inter-com
0
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Posted - 2017.06.13 16:03:15 -
[707] - Quote
I find it interesting that you guys don't take into consideration the very Cost of the ships, vs their income. |
Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6649
|
Posted - 2017.06.13 17:12:59 -
[708] - Quote
alex tow wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Terminal Insanity wrote:im pretty sure the only thing ccp took into account with the nerfs is how many new mining accounts youll open up to maintain the same isk level that your single rorqual could have mined.
this is just about forcing people to multibox more So if your employer cuts your pay, you work 2x the number of hours right? Well, if you need minerals, some will do :)
It is sad that EVE players do not grasp the concept of opportunity cost.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
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Sharnhorst von Deathwish
STK Scientific The Initiative.
29
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Posted - 2017.06.13 23:52:08 -
[709] - Quote
Day 1..
Colossal belt has ochre and a handfull of spod. Euro had 12 hours to clear it.
It's 8pm my time. Sure I could. Then play again at 1am.. because you know, I don't need sleep for work.
Mission accomplished. CCP demonstrates euro tz best tz.
Here's my two cent.
-,I,, |
PurpleKush
Ascendance Goonswarm Federation
0
|
Posted - 2017.06.14 00:54:45 -
[710] - Quote
@ CCP Fozzie is there a dislike button? I just cannot seem to find it.
Anyways, just want to say Europe loves you... You apparently hate the American continents, and I'm sure you'll find our love at a loss for you in the near future.
Totally was going to write more, however, I concluded that you really could care less seeing as you have yet to respond to any of the previous post. Of which a lot of their comments are valid from my point of view as a pay to play account on this game.
So, knowing that you have my email already, feel free to write me if you would like some feed back from us little guys.... You know, the majority of us who actually have jobs and pay to play this game... Yeah those guys, the ones that are now wearing those new awesome hats! That look like ****....
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Dorn Val
Art Of Explosions
184
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Posted - 2017.06.14 06:32:16 -
[711] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:We are also making some more small adjustments to the Excavator drones themselves. In June the changes are: - About 9% less yield for Ore Excavators
- 12.5% lower speed for Ore Excavators
- About 11% longer cycle time for Ice Excavators
- 10% lower speed for Ice Excavators
We will continue observing the economy after these changes and making adjustments as necessary to keep it healthy for all our players.
How about creating more incentive for peeps to blow each other up so demand catches up with supply?...
Sandbox: An enclosed area filled with sand for children engaged in open-ended, unstructured, imaginative play. Also a place for cats to urinate and defecate...
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Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
4029
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Posted - 2017.06.14 06:52:13 -
[712] - Quote
Sharnhorst von Deathwish wrote:Day 1..
Colossal belt has ochre and a handfull of spod. Euro had 12 hours to clear it.
It's 8pm my time. Sure I could. Then play again at 1am.. because you know, I don't need sleep for work.
Mission accomplished. CCP demonstrates euro tz best tz.
Here's my two cent.
-,I,, So why is it CCP's fault that your Euro TZ players are asses and left you a bad anom. It would suck even before the changes having them cherry pick it and not clean it all for you anyway. I suggest getting better alliance mates. |
Gieriger Fuchs
Artic Ice Solution
37
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Posted - 2017.06.14 08:01:20 -
[713] - Quote
CCP wants to move the people to other systems????
CCP please ,what is the reason while miners go to some Systems with high SEcstatus?? Right..the miningyield
Please begin to play your own game. I leave Eve a few Month ago and when i see this Patchnotes i think it was a good dicision.
Remove this ******* Secstatus and the people will move to other unbusy Systems from itself.
CCP....many People gives you a Tip... hear on it...play your own Game.
Patch the Rorqaul out of game...its have the same affects like your fu... bullshitpatches.
at last..... cooldown for Miningbelts.... LoL
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Kist Shi
Generals Of Destruction Syndicate The Bastion
3
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Posted - 2017.06.14 18:12:08 -
[714] - Quote
Grognard Commissar wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Radious Servasse wrote:CCP is nerfing mining. "The economy is unhealthy." 32 pages of rage in a week. CCP is nerfing carrier ratting. 51 pages of rage in a day.
CCP thinks the economy is in bad health because of too much isk. You don't nerf rorqs and carrier ratting at the same time. Rorqs account for most of the mining done in New Eden and now they are being nerved because of the bad economy. CCP has not changed a thing, just ruined the amount of isk that is to be made. Since ore has subjective value based on supply and demand, rorqs in the long term won't be too bad off as ore prices rise (Except for the new tears involved in mining). Carrier ratting on the other hand are going to be screwed.
Looks like CCP is delibratly trying to kill it's long-term players. A rapid rise in the money supply can be bad for an economy. It can lead to inflation. Now while there is not much inflation at the moment, letting this go until prices start rising dramatically is probably not a good thing. As for minerals the mineral price index has been falling for the past 13 months. This suggests that ALOT of minerals are entering the markets and depressing prices. Both of these are two macro trends are troubling at the very least. Now, perhaps if you cut out the hysterics and engaged your brain a bit you'd see that these while unfortunate for rorqual and carrier/super pilots, these changes should probably be made. you realize it's literally your alliance that's responsible, riiight?
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Kist Shi
Generals Of Destruction Syndicate The Bastion
3
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Posted - 2017.06.14 18:20:32 -
[715] - Quote
I was on the understanding that this is a player led game and economy. The players don't want this , there are 35 pages on this forum that prove this . Ccp need to concentrate on creating more pvp opportunities like reducing reinforcement timers on structures so the isk being made gets spent . Yes I'm a miner , yes I have a rorqual but I1 thing I never have is isk as I reinvest it all to bpo's. it would be better to make bigger ships slower to warp off so they can be killed . Carriers and supers are gone soon as intel spikes . Rorquals are stuck . Also make cynosure not work in anoms so it's all manual warp ins at random points so more ships are at risk . Don't nerf the very things people like and enjoy doing |
SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
3204
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Posted - 2017.06.14 18:27:53 -
[716] - Quote
Kist Shi wrote:I was on the understanding that this is a player led game and economy.
Do people really think this is a clever or compelling argument?
When they initially announced their plans to introduce Excavators and turn the Rorqual into a mining behemoth, did you complain that you thought this was a player-run economy then?
I'm betting you didn't.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
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Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6674
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Posted - 2017.06.14 20:59:14 -
[717] - Quote
SurrenderMonkey wrote:Kist Shi wrote:I was on the understanding that this is a player led game and economy. Do people really think this is a clever or compelling argument? When they initially announced their plans to introduce Excavators and turn the Rorqual into a mining behemoth, did you complain that you thought this was a player-run economy then? I'm betting you didn't.
Heh, the irony.
And when an unbalanced ship appears, let it stay because of "player driven economy."
Yup, that is about a logical as a 3 year old.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
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Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
1396
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Posted - 2017.06.14 22:40:10 -
[718] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:SurrenderMonkey wrote:Kist Shi wrote:I was on the understanding that this is a player led game and economy. Do people really think this is a clever or compelling argument? When they initially announced their plans to introduce Excavators and turn the Rorqual into a mining behemoth, did you complain that you thought this was a player-run economy then? I'm betting you didn't. Heh, the irony. And when an unbalanced ship appears, let it stay because of "player driven economy." Yup, that is about a logical as a 3 year old. Not sure if either of you followed the threads leading up to Rorqual/Orca changes but CCP was warned over and over that their changes would cause problems - CCP went ahead regardless and are now in "oh Shite what did we do" mode.
They made a lot of RL money from people injecting to get more Rorqual characters due to bad game design .
The problem now is CCP/Devs are not addressing the underlying problem with Rorquals and simply nerfing everyone due to the actions of a minority - Or in other words, doing the only thing this lot of Devs is capable of as they have no idea what "game balance" actually is or how to achieve it.
Reality is, we haven't had a player driven economy for a long time - It is closely monitored by CCP who will and do intervene when it suits them...
You can try to defend CCP as much as you like but they did wrong...
My opinions are mine.
If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - -
Just don't bother Hating - I don't care
It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
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SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
3215
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Posted - 2017.06.14 23:06:33 -
[719] - Quote
Sgt Ocker wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:SurrenderMonkey wrote: Do people really think this is a clever or compelling argument?
When they initially announced their plans to introduce Excavators and turn the Rorqual into a mining behemoth, did you complain that you thought this was a player-run economy then?
I'm betting you didn't.
Heh, the irony. And when an unbalanced ship appears, let it stay because of "player driven economy." Yup, that is about a logical as a 3 year old. Not sure if either of you followed the threads leading up to Rorqual/Orca changes but CCP was warned over and over that their changes would cause problems - CCP went ahead regardless and are now in "oh Shite what did we do" mode.
Mostly what I remember about the early rorqual change threads is a lot of hilarious crying about how they're still not worth putting on grid, and never will be, and the rorqual is dead and will never be used again.
Quote: Reality is, we haven't had a player driven economy for a long time - It is closely monitored by CCP who will and do intervene when it suits them...
If that distinction is your definition of "player driven economy" then, spoiler alert: Eve has NEVER had a player driven economy.
There has never been a single moment in the lifespan of Eve where anything introduced to the economy via a faucet wasn't subject to the possibility of tweaking. The entire point was the astonishing number of people who don't seem to realize that, and are making moronic, "B...but the player driven economy!!1!" arguments now.
Ore compositions have been rebalanced. Tiericide included huge ship material rebalancing. Bounties have been adjusted before. Gun mining was killed. Drone minerals went away. The plex market has seen direct intervention before. That's just a tiny fraction of examples. Remember when ore anomalies didn't exist? I sure do.
But, whoa, a completely necessary Rorqual yield adjustment? That's just totally over the line! Clutch your pearls, and wring your hands, because NOW is the time to get precious about the player driven economy.
Quote:You can try to defend CCP as much as you like but they did wrong...
It's not about defending CCP, it's just that blaming them doesn't ******* matter. Sure, it's entirely their fault, and back when they had an economist, they seemed to be keenly aware that a bigger, badder mining yield ship - especially a capital-grade mining ship - wouldn't actually be a good thing. I agree with that sentiment.
Now, tell me how that has any impact on the necessity of continuing to manage the influx of new material. What, CCP ****** up so they should just say, "Well, guess we done goofed. We'll just have to let this train run right off the rails, now, because it simply won't do to upset a bunch of FOTM chasers by rebalancing things now that we realize we made a mistake. It was a good run while it lasted."
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
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Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6674
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Posted - 2017.06.14 23:44:29 -
[720] - Quote
Sgt Ocker wrote: Not sure if either of you followed the threads leading up to Rorqual/Orca changes but CCP was warned over and over that their changes would cause problems - CCP went ahead regardless and are now in "oh Shite what did we do" mode.
And what does this prove, imply, even mean? CCP were warned, it went bad, but because they weren't warned we have to leave an unbalanced ship in the game?
Sgt Ocker wrote:They made a lot of RL money from people injecting to get more Rorqual characters due to bad game design .
The problem now is CCP/Devs are not addressing the underlying problem with Rorquals and simply nerfing everyone due to the actions of a minority - Or in other words, doing the only thing this lot of Devs is capable of as they have no idea what "game balance" actually is or how to achieve it.
Let me get this straight...people are upset because they spent RL money accelerating their training on a ship that you indicate was known to be unbalanced...and when CCP about faces people should be upset.
Here is an idea: If it looks too good to be true, it probably is. Stop chasing the latest fad and go with what works.
Sgt Ocker wrote:Reality is, we haven't had a player driven economy for a long time - It is closely monitored by CCP who will and do intervene when it suits them...
You can try to defend CCP as much as you like but they did wrong...
CCP takes a pretty hands off approach to the economy, IMO.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
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