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Kassimila
Macabre Votum Northern Coalition.
42
|
Posted - 2017.06.07 00:02:50 -
[1] - Quote
So I'm only going off Pyfa here, so if I'm incorrect on this please feel free to correct me. Why can't an orca fit a stasis grappler? I realize it's in this weird halfway spot between battleship and capital ship, but either of those ship classes can fit the module. Why not the orca? |
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
3616
|
Posted - 2017.06.07 00:10:04 -
[2] - Quote
Why should an Orca be able to? It's a mining support vessel.
If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
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Kassimila
Macabre Votum Northern Coalition.
42
|
Posted - 2017.06.07 00:16:01 -
[3] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:Why should an Orca be able to? It's a mining support vessel.
I mean....A force aux can. It's a support vessel. Maybe I want to battle orca, you don't know me. |
Rawketsled
Generic Corp Name
522
|
Posted - 2017.06.07 00:42:40 -
[4] - Quote
Wait, FAXes can fit Grapplers?
How did I not know about this? |
Kassimila
Macabre Votum Northern Coalition.
42
|
Posted - 2017.06.07 00:44:45 -
[5] - Quote
Rawketsled wrote:Wait, FAXes can fit Grapplers?
How did I not know about this?
Right click - Show info is a hard skill to master :) |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Shadow Cartel
11693
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Posted - 2017.06.07 00:46:52 -
[6] - Quote
OP has a point.
I support this.
How did you Veterans start?
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Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
1243
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Posted - 2017.06.07 03:07:48 -
[7] - Quote
why should it?
"lol, why not?" isn't a reason |
grgjegb gergerg
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
46
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Posted - 2017.06.07 03:14:12 -
[8] - Quote
Kassimila wrote:So I'm only going off Pyfa here, so if I'm incorrect on this please feel free to correct me. Why can't an orca fit a stasis grappler? I realize it's in this weird halfway spot between battleship and capital ship, but either of those ship classes can fit the module. Why not the orca? Well, they're ORE hulls, I wouldn't expect mining vessels to have that kind of thing going? Maybe it required military-class mounts that are only found in combat hulls, and the Orca structure can't take the forces?
Sure, the technical answer is that CCP clicked the "battleships and caps" line of checkboxes, ofc.
As to whether it should be able to fit them... I dunno. One one side, succeed or fail, battle Orcas would generate hilarious killmails. On the other, it doesn't quite make lore-sense?
I don't think it really matters either way. An Orca can't mount a large MJD either. And THAT would be far more useful. |
Kassimila
Macabre Votum Northern Coalition.
43
|
Posted - 2017.06.07 03:29:05 -
[9] - Quote
grgjegb gergerg wrote:Kassimila wrote:So I'm only going off Pyfa here, so if I'm incorrect on this please feel free to correct me. Why can't an orca fit a stasis grappler? I realize it's in this weird halfway spot between battleship and capital ship, but either of those ship classes can fit the module. Why not the orca? Well, they're ORE hulls, I wouldn't expect mining vessels to have that kind of thing going? Maybe it required military-class mounts that are only found in combat hulls, and the Orca structure can't take the forces? Sure, the technical answer is that CCP clicked the "battleships and caps" line of checkboxes, ofc. As to whether it should be able to fit them... I dunno. One one side, succeed or fail, battle Orcas would generate hilarious killmails. On the other, it doesn't quite make lore-sense? I don't think it really matters either way. An Orca can't mount a large MJD either. And THAT would be far more useful.
Lets add that to the thread as well.
Allow orca to fit Large MJD, and Stasis grappler! |
Kassimila
Macabre Votum Northern Coalition.
43
|
Posted - 2017.06.07 03:30:51 -
[10] - Quote
Sonya Corvinus wrote:why should it?
"lol, why not?" isn't a reason
Sonya Corvinus not reading and trolling yet another thread. I'm shocked. |
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Tessa Sage
Legion of the Wicked Way ChaosTheory.
11
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Posted - 2017.06.07 03:34:15 -
[11] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:Why should an Orca be able to? It's a mining support vessel. When the Orca is your dedicated booster, you need a bulky enough hauler to move the ice off grid. The heavy grappler is great to give your hauler toon an insta-warp effect once it has begun its align. It also allows fleet better damage potential against warp scramming rats which usually zip around and jam as if you're an npc Sotiyo defense fleet. |
Old Pervert
Perkone Caldari State
105
|
Posted - 2017.06.07 16:31:44 -
[12] - Quote
Sonya Corvinus wrote:why should it?
"lol, why not?" isn't a reason
In a game where "hey we didn't think of that. Cool!" is something that has been specifically said by the Devs, "why not" is in fact the perfect reason.
Letting players come up with unexpected uses for things is the spice of life in this game. Let the spice flow. |
Kassimila
Macabre Votum Northern Coalition.
47
|
Posted - 2017.06.07 21:27:54 -
[13] - Quote
Old Pervert wrote:Sonya Corvinus wrote:why should it?
"lol, why not?" isn't a reason In a game where "hey we didn't think of that. Cool!" is something that has been specifically said by the Devs, "why not" is in fact the perfect reason. Letting players come up with unexpected uses for things is the spice of life in this game. Let the spice flow.
Just ignore Sonya. She doesn't play the game, she just trolls the forums. |
Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
1243
|
Posted - 2017.06.07 22:27:35 -
[14] - Quote
Kassimila wrote:Sonya Corvinus not reading and trolling yet another thread. I'm shocked.
Give me a reason it needs to be in game. You kind of left that out. Why do you want the orca to be able to do this?
Kassimila, posting crazy suggestions with no reason. I'm shocked.
Old Pervert wrote:In a game where "hey we didn't think of that. Cool!" is something that has been specifically said by the Devs, "why not" is in fact the perfect reason.
Letting players come up with unexpected uses for things is the spice of life in this game. Let the spice flow.
Post with your main please. It looks like you haven't actually played this game. |
Kassimila
Macabre Votum Northern Coalition.
47
|
Posted - 2017.06.07 22:35:12 -
[15] - Quote
Sonya Corvinus wrote:Kassimila wrote:Sonya Corvinus not reading and trolling yet another thread. I'm shocked. Give me a reason it needs to be in game. You kind of left that out. Why do you want the orca to be able to do this? Kassimila, posting crazy suggestions with no reason. I'm shocked. Old Pervert wrote:In a game where "hey we didn't think of that. Cool!" is something that has been specifically said by the Devs, "why not" is in fact the perfect reason.
Letting players come up with unexpected uses for things is the spice of life in this game. Let the spice flow. Post with your main please. It looks like you haven't actually played this game.
Stop crying about mains when you haven't so much as killed something in a year. You are in breach of the forum rules, knock it off.
5. Trolling is prohibited.
Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive, and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote. |
Dior Ambraelle
University of Caille Gallente Federation
64
|
Posted - 2017.06.07 22:43:23 -
[16] - Quote
Orca is a "large" ship, I don't see why it shouldn't have the ability to fit modules that other ships of it's size can. Wether or not it's actually useful would depend on the players as usual. I support both the grappler and the large MJD.
If you want an intelligent argument, please do, I'm up for it!
But if you want a trolling contest, I will win it by simply not participating.
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Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
1243
|
Posted - 2017.06.07 22:48:25 -
[17] - Quote
Kassimila wrote:Stop crying about mains when you haven't so much as killed something in a year. You are in breach of the forum rules, knock it off.
5. Trolling is prohibited.
Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive, and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote.
This is my main. I do mainly PvE any more. I was talking to a person without a single entry on a killboard. Learn to read kiddo.
For the third time, why is this needed? Give a reason or stop posting ridiculous things. Why is it hard for you to explain why you think this change needs to happen? |
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
3616
|
Posted - 2017.06.07 22:54:21 -
[18] - Quote
Tessa Sage wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote:Why should an Orca be able to? It's a mining support vessel. When the Orca is your dedicated booster, you need a bulky enough hauler to move the ice off grid. The heavy grappler is great to give your hauler toon an insta-warp effect once it has begun its align. It also allows fleet better damage potential against warp scramming rats which usually zip around and jam as if you're an npc Sotiyo defense fleet. Fair enough, though I also had it in my head they used 2k power grid.
If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
|
mkint
1806
|
Posted - 2017.06.07 23:06:45 -
[19] - Quote
Sonya Corvinus wrote:Kassimila wrote:Stop crying about mains when you haven't so much as killed something in a year. You are in breach of the forum rules, knock it off.
This is my main. I do mainly PvE any more. I was talking to a person without a single entry on a killboard. Learn to read kiddo. For the third time, why is this needed? Give a reason or stop posting ridiculous things. Why is it hard for you to explain why you think this change needs to happen? "need" is a strong word. The pertinent question is whether or not it's appropriate. Personally, I'm not terribly happy with the idea of size-restricted modules. Restricted modules to fill a role is one thing, but otherwise I feel like more general use modules should be restricted by CPU/PG limits. That's a personal opinion obviously so that's obviously not a justification in itself. On the grounds of combat vs support, it's not an inappropriate change as an orca can already fit any standard ewar, smartbombs, combat drones, etc. That makes it feel more like this is an oversight rather than an intentional design. And of course, any combat ship can fit RR's and other support modules, so an arbitrary hard barrier between combat and support is otherwise nonexistent.
imo, the only reason to NOT allow it is if it would introduce some game breaking imbalance. Would it? "Why not" might actually be a sufficiently adequate reason for this to push through. The "why" being "because cool stuff might happen" is more than sufficient. After all, "cool stuff might happen" is the entire reason for pretty much everything in EVE, and the only real reason to play EVE to begin with.
Maxim 6. If violence wasnGÇÖt your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.
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Kassimila
Macabre Votum Northern Coalition.
47
|
Posted - 2017.06.07 23:20:35 -
[20] - Quote
Ignore this. |
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Kassimila
Macabre Votum Northern Coalition.
47
|
Posted - 2017.06.07 23:21:20 -
[21] - Quote
mkint wrote:Sonya Corvinus wrote:Kassimila wrote:Stop crying about mains when you haven't so much as killed something in a year. You are in breach of the forum rules, knock it off.
This is my main. I do mainly PvE any more. I was talking to a person without a single entry on a killboard. Learn to read kiddo. For the third time, why is this needed? Give a reason or stop posting ridiculous things. Why is it hard for you to explain why you think this change needs to happen? "need" is a strong word. The pertinent question is whether or not it's appropriate. Personally, I'm not terribly happy with the idea of size-restricted modules. Restricted modules to fill a role is one thing, but otherwise I feel like more general use modules should be restricted by CPU/PG limits. That's a personal opinion obviously so that's obviously not a justification in itself. On the grounds of combat vs support, it's not an inappropriate change as an orca can already fit any standard ewar, smartbombs, combat drones, etc. That makes it feel more like this is an oversight rather than an intentional design. And of course, any combat ship can fit RR's and other support modules, so an arbitrary hard barrier between combat and support is otherwise nonexistent. imo, the only reason to NOT allow it is if it would introduce some game breaking imbalance. Would it? "Why not" might actually be a sufficiently adequate reason for this to push through. The "why" being "because cool stuff might happen" is more than sufficient. After all, "cool stuff might happen" is the entire reason for pretty much everything in EVE, and the only real reason to play EVE to begin with.
Well said. To add to this the grappler would be useful to slow down annoying tackle so you can pummel it with your drones. You could have 2 orcas on field and web them off field faster. You could web your rorq out. I mean it's a pretty cut and dry module, it's uses are apparent. The orca is a heavy vessel, this module was designed for heavy vessels to use. The lack of it being able to use it seems like an oversight.
For the MJD: Because it's a good module, and again battleships/battlecruisers get it. The orca is this weird battleship/capital without a jump drive hybrid thing. It can't fit capital mods. It can dock in an asta, so I lean towards battleship. It would make sense that it should be able to use the module. Being able to go 100km -> that way is useful. |
Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
1243
|
Posted - 2017.06.07 23:57:41 -
[22] - Quote
Kassimila wrote:mkint wrote:Sonya Corvinus wrote:Kassimila wrote:Stop crying about mains when you haven't so much as killed something in a year. You are in breach of the forum rules, knock it off.
This is my main. I do mainly PvE any more. I was talking to a person without a single entry on a killboard. Learn to read kiddo. For the third time, why is this needed? Give a reason or stop posting ridiculous things. Why is it hard for you to explain why you think this change needs to happen? "need" is a strong word. The pertinent question is whether or not it's appropriate. Personally, I'm not terribly happy with the idea of size-restricted modules. Restricted modules to fill a role is one thing, but otherwise I feel like more general use modules should be restricted by CPU/PG limits. That's a personal opinion obviously so that's obviously not a justification in itself. On the grounds of combat vs support, it's not an inappropriate change as an orca can already fit any standard ewar, smartbombs, combat drones, etc. That makes it feel more like this is an oversight rather than an intentional design. And of course, any combat ship can fit RR's and other support modules, so an arbitrary hard barrier between combat and support is otherwise nonexistent. imo, the only reason to NOT allow it is if it would introduce some game breaking imbalance. Would it? "Why not" might actually be a sufficiently adequate reason for this to push through. The "why" being "because cool stuff might happen" is more than sufficient. After all, "cool stuff might happen" is the entire reason for pretty much everything in EVE, and the only real reason to play EVE to begin with. Well said. To add to this the grappler would be useful to slow down annoying tackle so you can pummel it with your drones. You could have 2 orcas on field and web them off field faster. You could web your rorq out. I mean it's a pretty cut and dry module, it's uses are apparent. The orca is a heavy vessel, this module was designed for heavy vessels to use. The lack of it being able to use it seems like an oversight. For the MJD: Because it's a good module, and again battleships/battlecruisers get it. The orca is this weird battleship/capital without a jump drive hybrid thing. It can't fit capital mods. It can dock in an asta, so I lean towards battleship. It would make sense that it should be able to use the module. Being able to go 100km -> that way is useful.
Responding to both of you, thanks for finally giving a reason. Getting one was like pulling teeth.
We need less powerful large ships, not more. Mining is entirely too easy as it is today, and we want to now buff the Orca? Please no. Kass, the Orca isn't a combat ship. It's a mining support ship. Why should you get more of an 'I win' button for your PvE-ing like you are asking for?
If you want to protect your mining fleet, get friends to fly support. Literally every one of your posts is "I want the game to be easier". That's why I respond the way I do. I don't agree with that. |
Kassimila
Macabre Votum Northern Coalition.
47
|
Posted - 2017.06.08 00:34:59 -
[23] - Quote
Sonya Corvinus wrote:
Responding to both of you, thanks for finally giving a reason. Getting one was like pulling teeth.
We need less powerful large ships, not more. Mining is entirely too easy as it is today, and we want to now buff the Orca? Please no. Kass, the Orca isn't a combat ship. It's a mining support ship. Why should you get more of an 'I win' button for your PvE-ing like you are asking for?
If you want to protect your mining fleet, get friends to fly support. Literally every one of your posts is "I want the game to be easier". That's why I respond the way I do. I don't agree with that.
Seeming that you just sit in high sec 'pveing' for the last year. I'm pretty sure it's you who actually wants the game easier, and are risk adverse.
Less powerful large ships? Really? Considering the current most used/imbalanced ships are currently the Claw, T3 dessies. I'm pretty sure small ships are in a really great spot. Small gang battleship roams have been long dead for quite a while. You would know this if you actually left high sec.
As for the Orca not being a combat ship. Every ship in Eve online is a combat ship. Giving the ship the ability to fit modules that it clearly should be able to fit is in no way an 'I win' button. It would however give you additional options other than clicking warp and counting out the 40 second align time. It might even cause people to use the orca in places like low/null sec. Instead of the current meta which is mostly high sec, some wormhole. I'm pretty sure the wormholers would agree that this change would make the Orca a more viable platform for "mining fleet support" in WHs as well. |
mkint
1806
|
Posted - 2017.06.08 00:48:03 -
[24] - Quote
Sonya Corvinus wrote:If you want to protect your mining fleet, get friends to fly support. Literally every one of your posts is "I want the game to be easier". That's why I respond the way I do. I don't agree with that. Combat support fleet for mining never has been, nor ever will be a viable option, not without a) making mining incur enough losses enough to justify the expense b) expensive enough barrier of entry to justify the expense and c) lucrative enough to actually pay the expense. All of those conditions would be a bad thing. I wish people would let that argument die off.
The "too easy" reason for "why not" I think has some validity, but I think if that extra *perception* of security lures significant numbers of miners into lowsec then maybe it's actually not only acceptable but desirable. I guess I'm not sure where the yield values for different sec bands currently sit or if lowsec ores would need to be buffed/highsec nerfed, but I'd be pretty thrilled if lowsec mining losses significantly increased even if highsec mining losses saw a decrease. Even though that wasn't the stated goal in the OP, this feels like a solid part of increasing overall risk exposure and interesting content.
I'm not usually too thrilled with OP's ideas either. Or really, most F&I ideas. :P But this one feels like it could be part of something cool. Unless, of course, it breaks everything.
Maxim 6. If violence wasnGÇÖt your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.
|
Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
1243
|
Posted - 2017.06.08 00:52:40 -
[25] - Quote
Kassimila wrote:Seeming that you just sit in high sec 'pveing' for the last year. I'm pretty sure it's you who actually wants the game easier, and are risk adverse.
Less powerful large ships? Really? Considering the current most used/imbalanced ships are currently the Claw, T3 dessies. I'm pretty sure small ships are in a really great spot. Small gang battleship roams have been long dead for quite a while. You would know this if you actually left high sec.
As for the Orca not being a combat ship. Every ship in Eve online is a combat ship. Giving the ship the ability to fit modules that it clearly should be able to fit is in no way an 'I win' button. It would however give you additional options other than clicking warp and counting out the 40 second align time. It might even cause people to use the orca in places like low/null sec. Instead of the current meta which is mostly high sec, some wormhole. I'm pretty sure the wormholers would agree that this change would make the Orca a more viable platform for "mining fleet support" in WHs as well.
I've lived in null and WHs for years, for the last year living solo in WHs. I honestly don't know much about HS living. Let me know how it is though. You seem about as carebear as it gets, hitting F1 in fleets and not taking any risks.
The irony though....I've lived in WHs for years and disagree with nearly 100% of the threads you make as a nullbear who just wants an easier game. You take 40 seconds to align with an Orca? Have you ever actually played this game?
And yes, we need less caps, less massive ships, and more challenging play. Nearly all of your ideas go against that thought process.
Honest question, why did you assume I spend any time in HS? I haven't lived there since 2012. |
Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
1243
|
Posted - 2017.06.08 00:56:53 -
[26] - Quote
mkint wrote:Combat support fleet for mining never has been, nor ever will be a viable option, not without a) making mining incur enough losses enough to justify the expense b) expensive enough barrier of entry to justify the expense and c) lucrative enough to actually pay the expense. All of those conditions would be a bad thing. I wish people would let that argument die off.
The "too easy" reason for "why not" I think has some validity, but I think if that extra *perception* of security lures significant numbers of miners into lowsec then maybe it's actually not only acceptable but desirable. I guess I'm not sure where the yield values for different sec bands currently sit or if lowsec ores would need to be buffed/highsec nerfed, but I'd be pretty thrilled if lowsec mining losses significantly increased even if highsec mining losses saw a decrease. Even though that wasn't the stated goal in the OP, this feels like a solid part of increasing overall risk exposure and interesting content.
I'm not usually too thrilled with OP's ideas either. Or really, most F&I ideas. :P But this one feels like it could be part of something cool. Unless, of course, it breaks everything.
Bullsh*t. Why hold space in sov null if you don't have standing defense fleets 24/7? How hard is it for your fellow ratters and miners to immediately re-ship to combat ships when someone attacks? You are in a fleet and on comms the entire time you're online and PvE-ing, right?
Making null be as safe as HS for carebears is a bad thing, which is what most of OP's posts want to do. |
Kassimila
Macabre Votum Northern Coalition.
47
|
Posted - 2017.06.08 01:49:56 -
[27] - Quote
Sonya Corvinus wrote: Honest question, why did you assume I spend any time in HS? I haven't lived there since 2012.
Sonya Corvinus wrote: This is my main. I do mainly PvE any more. I was talking to a person without a single entry on a killboard. Learn to read kiddo.
You literally said this is your main, I lookup that character on the killboards last kill Sept 27th, last loss May 7th...2016. So it really doesn't seem like your version of playing the game involves leaving a station. |
Kassimila
Macabre Votum Northern Coalition.
47
|
Posted - 2017.06.08 02:08:35 -
[28] - Quote
Sonya Corvinus wrote:
Bullsh*t. Why hold space in sov null if you don't have standing defense fleets 24/7? How hard is it for your fellow ratters and miners to immediately re-ship to combat ships when someone attacks? You are in a fleet and on comms the entire time you're online and PvE-ing, right?
Making null be as safe as HS for carebears is a bad thing, which is what most of OP's posts want to do.
Oh and your "It takes you 40 seconds to align in an orca? Are you a noob?". Open pyfa, orca, all lvl 5s 36.5 second align you ape.
As for your comment that 'all I want to do is make null sec safer for pve'. You seem to care a lot about pvp for someone that doesn't actually do it. My actual opinions however are as follows.
- Add a 30 second delay on local in null sec. - Boot every afk idiot. Afk cloakers KILL gameplay, they don't create content. You'll make the argument that they are paying for their account. Then I will point out that an unimplanted character generates 1.7 million SP per month, which is enough to sell and pay for the account. So it's basically a buffed up alpha clone.
You complain about null sec being 'too safe' as it is when it is where most of the ship losses in the game occur. Meanwhile high sec incursion runners are PRINTING isk with impunity.
As for your reshipping comment, it really depends on the type of pvp that occurs. Roaming gang? Sure you can form up and get in some pew. Wormhole opened within a jump of you? They leap in get kills, and vanish before you can really form a response. Covert afk cyno dropper? Only way to deal with that is have you own cyno and a titan bridge on standby. Even if you're in a standing fleet, they simply would never be able to respond in time otherwise.
As for you questioning what I've done in the game. I've been playing since 2005, remember full damage to everything torpedoes that you could outrun? I do. Remember a time before capitals? I do. I've lived in HS, Nullsec, WHs, I've been a low-sec pirate. I've lead a team to the semi finals of the alliance tournament. So if that makes me a "F1 monkey" as you call it. Sure dude. |
Rawketsled
Generic Corp Name
523
|
Posted - 2017.06.08 02:54:29 -
[29] - Quote
lol. It takes seven seconds to align an Orca if you fit it correctly. No rigging required. |
Kassimila
Macabre Votum Northern Coalition.
47
|
Posted - 2017.06.08 03:07:34 -
[30] - Quote
Rawketsled wrote:lol. It takes seven seconds to align an Orca if you fit it correctly. No rigging required.
Cloak/mwd shinnangians? |
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