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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Kenrailae
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
769
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Posted - 2017.06.08 23:37:23 -
[91] - Quote
So the real question is are you going to rebalance/recalculate ALL pirate NPC ship build reqs incorporating the faction build mats that were introduced with the pirate caps(even though yes you'll have to add in new materials for subcaps and the pirate caps you haven't done yet), as you should, or just piecemeal it hope it works out?
Also, while we're at it, can we consider carrying this into the Navy stuff as well, with possible segway into caps, keeping consideration for the LP market. I'd be just as excited about a Roden or Federation Moros as a Serpentis Moros.
The Law is a point of View
The NPE IS a big deal
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Jason Galente
Tempest Legion
1205
|
Posted - 2017.06.08 23:39:28 -
[92] - Quote
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Making pirate ships cost more isn't going to "fix" any problems - Those who can afford them will still use them
Am I correct in saying that you think a massive price increase of 2-3x current prices is going to result in the number of people "who can afford them" remaining approximately the same? Because if that's indeed what you think, you're insane. And if that's not what you meant, then the change has meaning and you don't really have a point.
Only the liberty of the individual assures the prosperity of the whole.
And this foundation must be defended.
At any cost
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FearlessLittleToaster
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
202
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Posted - 2017.06.08 23:47:58 -
[93] - Quote
As an (ex) explorer I have to say the change to escalations doesn't make me sad. I did exploration as my sole PvE activity from 2010 until early this year. The thrill of running gate camps, scouting with an alt, and the big find where one site paid for Eve for a month on a good drop was really the hook that got me into Eve. I liked it so much I've written articles about it, taught classes to Goons on it, and held it up as the right balance between risk and reward to anyone who asked. And, as of the start of the year, drops from anom escalations devalued the rewards to much they drove me out of it.
I tried like hell to keep going too. I figured out site spawn theory and started exploring in dangerous areas where others weren't brave enough to go since that got me more sites. I went from two alts to four, from a couple T1 battleships to three spider tanking Domis to three bling-fit rattlesnakes to three sins and a covops-cyno/prober scout to get more efficient at finding sweet sweet deadspace sites. But the value of the drops just kept going down. In the end, even with the sins running sites almost non-stop and the scout doing archeology the whole time, it just didn't pay anymore.
There is more Isk and less risk in almost any other PvE activity, to include active anom ratting in a carrier or faction battleship... and selling the escalations to a site running service. And yes, I could have just bought sites, but it wasn't grinding out 10/10s all day I really loved. It was moving between systems, running sites in hostile space with a red in local and daring them to come in and get me, it was the finding of a system crammed full of signatures after working out where others explored and daring to go where they wouldn't.
As an explorer who misses the PvE that made Eve awesome every minute I sit on rocks and watch my drones grind out spod, I support these changes. I actually have more Isk now, but earning is is a lot less fun. So maybe this change will do a bit to save nullsec exploration from being devalued into the new belt ratting. I can only hope.
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Draqolas Windfury
CBC Interstellar Goonswarm Federation
0
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Posted - 2017.06.08 23:48:36 -
[94] - Quote
Just another "brillant" CCP idea. Make something bad even worse. Bhaalgorn BPC prize have just rised from 70m to 300m!! CCP congrats. Soon machariel hull 1b. I think it will be cheaper to swap for carriers
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SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
3161
|
Posted - 2017.06.08 23:56:46 -
[95] - Quote
Sgt Ocker wrote:SurrenderMonkey wrote:Vash Bloodstone wrote:Something about this rubs me the wrong way.
I haven't played a lot recently, but why is this proliferation of pirate battleships considered a problem? Maybe someone can clarify for me? Sure. Quote:Are there too many gangs of pirate battleships roaming around? Gangs? Try mainline fleet doctrines. T1 and navy BS have been almost completely supplanted by pirate BS. Do you really not see why that's a problem? T1 BS are shite in comparison, which IS the problem. If there was a viable alternative for the Mach it wouldn't automatically be the go to. As for Navy versions, being LP based as soon as one sees more than average use the price goes up to match and demand will always outstrip supply. Napocs were a thing but got priced out of usefulness.. Making pirate ships cost more isn't going to "fix" any problems - Those who can afford them will still use them, those who can't or don't want to spend the extra will keep complaining - Devs will keep increasing costs and reducing supply until they once again become a rarely used niche class of ships.
It's supposed to be the case that those who can afford/feel they're worth it use them. Those who don't will use something cheaper. That isn't a problem, especially when the general premise is linear power gains for exponential increases in cost.
The problem is that, right now, the list of people who can afford them and feel they're worth it is... basically everyone, because the pricing, at present, offers linear power gains for linear increases in cost.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
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Ebony Texas
The Alabaster Albatross Sev3rance
20
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Posted - 2017.06.08 23:58:51 -
[96] - Quote
Grenouile wrote:How about you nerf Citadels first?
bullchit.. citadels above all needs to be given proper bonus..\
fozzie how about you just remove or update a fortizar's freaking point defenses and citadel's overall defenses!... the fighters are a fawking joke! |
Novor Drethan
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
8
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Posted - 2017.06.09 00:06:39 -
[97] - Quote
Romvex wrote:Querns wrote:T-B0NE wrote:So if you have a specific problem you want to address, then address it in a way that is specific to only that problem (AKA increase the mineral price of the ship or nerf the drop rate of the BPC). By nerfing escalation chances you effectively nerf EVERY module that comes from those escalations not just the BPC you are attempting to nerf. Heaven forbid X-Type hardeners be an actual expense rather than an afterthought. basically this, both pirate battleships and blue mods are too cheap for the benefit they provide Should a 5% improvement come with a 500% increase in value?
I'd say that's too expensive for the benefit they provide. |
Vash Bloodstone
Chiaotzu's Revenge
36
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Posted - 2017.06.09 00:11:59 -
[98] - Quote
SurrenderMonkey wrote: Sure.
Gangs? Try mainline fleet doctrines. T1 and navy BS have been almost completely supplanted by pirate BS.
Do you really not see why that's a problem?
There's two problems here I think. 1.) One is that just increasing the cost of Pirate Battleships won't solve the fundamental problem. 2). This issue is mostly being looked at from a PvP perspective and ignoring any PvE issues.
What I suggest is that CCP come up with a way to counter a fleet of Pirate Battleships. I've always thought that being apart of a large fleet was OP. I think there needs to be more ways to counter this. Currently, In my opinion, you can either bring in more ships to counter a big fleet of Pirate BS or maybe you can try to use stealth bombers. Of course, this actually requires creative work and intelligence. I might suggest something like a new ship, a Cruiser sized Stealth bomber that can shoot multiple bombs? Could this counter Pirate Battleships? How about large mines that only blow up when it detects a BS or larger? Its just one idea, the point is, this would represent an actual attempt to balance the game, instead of trying to micromanage the economy or other similar schemes. (that won't work) Players are very adaptive, people will find a way around this, you'll only annoy them, which will ultimately decrease satisfaction and make the game less fun.
Also, I know most won't care but increasing the cost of Pirate Battleship could hurt PvE a lot. Pirate BS are big in pve, i believe, and this will hurt those guys a lot more than those who just go for pvp. You have more options in PVP, but a lot of pve content benefits tremendously from being able to use pirate bs.
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Gilbaron
Free-Space-Ranger Northern Coalition.
1917
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 00:15:39 -
[99] - Quote
Novor Drethan wrote:Romvex wrote:Querns wrote:T-B0NE wrote:So if you have a specific problem you want to address, then address it in a way that is specific to only that problem (AKA increase the mineral price of the ship or nerf the drop rate of the BPC). By nerfing escalation chances you effectively nerf EVERY module that comes from those escalations not just the BPC you are attempting to nerf. Heaven forbid X-Type hardeners be an actual expense rather than an afterthought. basically this, both pirate battleships and blue mods are too cheap for the benefit they provide Should a 5% improvement come with a 500% increase in value? I'd say that's too expensive for the benefit they provide.
that's the way eve always has been and always should be. |
Kenrailae
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
769
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 00:27:13 -
[100] - Quote
Novor Drethan wrote:Romvex wrote:Querns wrote:T-B0NE wrote:So if you have a specific problem you want to address, then address it in a way that is specific to only that problem (AKA increase the mineral price of the ship or nerf the drop rate of the BPC). By nerfing escalation chances you effectively nerf EVERY module that comes from those escalations not just the BPC you are attempting to nerf. Heaven forbid X-Type hardeners be an actual expense rather than an afterthought. basically this, both pirate battleships and blue mods are too cheap for the benefit they provide Should a 5% improvement come with a 500% increase in value? I'd say that's too expensive for the benefit they provide.
No, as has been said, that is the way things should be. Certainly not the only one, but I remember using vindi's as a doctrine when they were still 1.3b/hull. That extra 5% we paid all the extra isk for helped us counter the much larger fleets of hostiles we would fight at the time. These days, everyone can afford a vindi, everyone uses (insert pirate BS) and everyone can make crap loads of isk in no time, so the extra 5% that used to have meaning, just doesn't anymore, because everyone uses it. The small skill/quality over quantity groups are pretty much almost all gone now, because everyone can afford to use the fits(or close enough) they could use anyway, AND bring crap loads more mans as well.
The Law is a point of View
The NPE IS a big deal
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Novor Drethan
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
8
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Posted - 2017.06.09 00:35:04 -
[101] - Quote
Kenrailae wrote:Novor Drethan wrote:Romvex wrote:Querns wrote:T-B0NE wrote:So if you have a specific problem you want to address, then address it in a way that is specific to only that problem (AKA increase the mineral price of the ship or nerf the drop rate of the BPC). By nerfing escalation chances you effectively nerf EVERY module that comes from those escalations not just the BPC you are attempting to nerf. Heaven forbid X-Type hardeners be an actual expense rather than an afterthought. basically this, both pirate battleships and blue mods are too cheap for the benefit they provide Should a 5% improvement come with a 500% increase in value? I'd say that's too expensive for the benefit they provide. No, as has been said, that is the way things should be. Certainly not the only one, but I remember using vindi's as a doctrine when they were still 1.3b/hull. That extra 5% we paid all the extra isk for helped us counter the much larger fleets of hostiles we would fight at the time. These days, everyone can afford a vindi, everyone uses (insert pirate BS) and everyone can make crap loads of isk in no time, so the extra 5% that used to have meaning, just doesn't anymore, because everyone uses it. The small skill/quality over quantity groups are pretty much almost all gone now, because everyone can afford to use the fits(or close enough) they could use anyway, AND bring crap loads more mans as well. You're already paying more isk for faction ships and modules, so the question isn't whether they should be more expensive, but by how much.
Barghests are 700m right now, and no one uses them. Increase that to 1.4b, and still no one will use them. If you increase Machariels to 1.4b, people will still use them.
So the issue isn't the value of these ships, but the fact that they outclass every other hull their size. |
Kenrailae
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
770
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 00:39:01 -
[102] - Quote
Novor Drethan wrote: You're already paying more isk for faction ships and modules, so the question isn't whether they should be more expensive, but by how much.
Barghests are 700m right now, and no one uses them. Increase that to 1.4b, and still no one will use them. If you increase Machariels to 1.4b, people will still use them.
So the issue isn't the value of these ships, but the fact that they outclass every other hull their size.
Then it sounds like there is an issue with the barghest that needs that ship rebalanced. 1.4b for a Mach is a fair price, for everything that ship is capable of doing.
The Law is a point of View
The NPE IS a big deal
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Max Deveron
Deveron Shipyards and Technology
382
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 00:44:30 -
[103] - Quote
Pirate Battleships are supposed to be expensive. Navy types are supposed to be more expensive than their non-navy counterparts
Why are people complaining about the price? are you dumb?
Like another poster already stated. I feel all Faction ships should be obtained from their respective LP stores, With that said, maybe adding in chips like for the Astero/Stratios/Nestor would be all right, but you still need for the most part to use the LP store. You want the ships/prints, grind for them or have some one that likes doing that do it and pay them for it. FFS where do you think a lot of those implants come from (crystals, slaves etc), or Barge BPO's (well most ORE gear).... It comes from the LP stores and the people doing the PVE. Imho, allowing for more diverse cultures on the PVE side of things will fuel the Combat PvP side of things.
Just think about it for a minute or two CCP, if you really want to balance the Playing Field here...quit allowing for these prints to drop in sites and let the Hunters/Prey do their little menagerie of dances for this. |
Novor Drethan
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
8
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Posted - 2017.06.09 00:45:28 -
[104] - Quote
Kenrailae wrote:Novor Drethan wrote: You're already paying more isk for faction ships and modules, so the question isn't whether they should be more expensive, but by how much.
Barghests are 700m right now, and no one uses them. Increase that to 1.4b, and still no one will use them. If you increase Machariels to 1.4b, people will still use them.
So the issue isn't the value of these ships, but the fact that they outclass every other hull their size.
Then it sounds like there is an issue with the barghest that needs that ship rebalanced. 1.4b for a Mach is a fair price, for everything that ship is capable of doing. It depends. Are you basing that 1.4b price tag off the fact that it's seeing such great usage? Because a great deal of that depends on void bombs being kept as oppressive as they currently are. If CCP nerfs void bombs, Machariels won't be nearly as great, and that 1.4b price tag then seems unreasonable because the practical value of the ship has dropped. |
Ruby Gnollo
22
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Posted - 2017.06.09 00:49:37 -
[105] - Quote
Hendrink Collie wrote:Huydo wrote:What do you think about make other Ships more viable for fleets than nerf it? Power creep is bad.
Just have so-called pirates behave abit smarter. Like, warpout with their loot when their fight is turning bad |
Kenrailae
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
770
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 00:50:23 -
[106] - Quote
Novor Drethan wrote:Kenrailae wrote:Novor Drethan wrote: You're already paying more isk for faction ships and modules, so the question isn't whether they should be more expensive, but by how much.
Barghests are 700m right now, and no one uses them. Increase that to 1.4b, and still no one will use them. If you increase Machariels to 1.4b, people will still use them.
So the issue isn't the value of these ships, but the fact that they outclass every other hull their size.
Then it sounds like there is an issue with the barghest that needs that ship rebalanced. 1.4b for a Mach is a fair price, for everything that ship is capable of doing. It depends. Are you basing that 1.4b price tag off the fact that it's seeing such great usage? Because a great deal of that depends on void bombs being kept as oppressive as they currently are. If CCP nerfs void bombs, Machariels won't be nearly as great, and that 1.4b price tag then seems unreasonable because the practical value of the ship has dropped.
No, I'm basing that on experience with the ship, it's strengths and weaknesses, and a time when the Evecosystem was more balanced between the small/large groups. Granted, I don't know if CCP is ever going to try to find a balance between large/small scale again, that isn't just summed up with 'well at least you got asset safety, right?', but before their prices started the downward dip they've been on until today, that is about where they were. Pirate BS still were purchased and used(the barghest wasn't around at the time), but they were not everywhere all the time. Also balancing one problem based on another problem isn't a good strategy.
The Law is a point of View
The NPE IS a big deal
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Shaqil
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
2
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Posted - 2017.06.09 01:09:21 -
[107] - Quote
Pirate BSs were fine for the price they were. CCP screwed it with BPC drop rates, now going to nerf bat them into oblivion. This is ridiculous. |
Max Deveron
Deveron Shipyards and Technology
382
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 01:17:19 -
[108] - Quote
Shaqil wrote:Pirate BSs were fine for the price they were. CCP screwed it with BPC drop rates, now going to nerf bat them into oblivion. This is ridiculous.
again why are you crying? they are not be nerfed, CCP is attempting re-initiate their high cost value....though i think this proposed method is flawed an nothing more than a bandaid on a wound that requires tourniquet and some stitches. |
Shinji Katsuragi
Y.G.G.D.R.A.S.I.L. Branch
7
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Posted - 2017.06.09 01:23:56 -
[109] - Quote
This is definitely NOT GOOD. |
Helene Fidard
CTRL-Q
55
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Posted - 2017.06.09 01:36:48 -
[110] - Quote
Finally!
Now remove guided void bombs :)
Hey! I don't know about you
but I'm joining CTRL-Q
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Vix Sparda
Boa Innovations Brothers of Tangra
1
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Posted - 2017.06.09 02:14:30 -
[111] - Quote
heres an idea fozzie. stop doing anything. |
Romvex
Furnace Thermodynamics
592
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Posted - 2017.06.09 02:23:23 -
[112] - Quote
seems to be alot of unintelligent posters in here who can't understand how important this change is. |
RedHand
Endless Defiance
2
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Posted - 2017.06.09 02:30:27 -
[113] - Quote
Thank you. Admittedly, I love pirate battleships and getting them for as cheap as they are, but they seem so easy to throw away for what's supposed to be a high impact ship.
Although, please don't **** with the Barghest's price too much, it's expensive compared to the rest already... |
xXxNIMRODxXx
Crusader Brewery
46
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Posted - 2017.06.09 02:43:58 -
[114] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:MechaJeb Kerman wrote:Trespasser wrote:honestly i disagree with this approach.
I think a much better way would be to make pirate battleships use their faction components found in 0.0 data sites to build.
CCP can then control the drop rate of these components to increase or decrease the price as needed. This also removes the need to screw with any escalation or drop rate as the bottleneck to production will no longer be the amount of blueprints on the market, the bottleneck will be these components.
This would also finally make data sites worth doing as 99.9% of them are trash. This. Make data sites great again. It's rather ridiculous that they drop on average 5 times less than Relic sites. Also, pretty sure SAAR BPC drop rates were improved, but after literally hundreds of data and relic sites I haven't seen a single one. A 1 run copy dropped from a random faction rat though. This also, very good idea.
....this our only hope. |
Mykale Kwijybow
1
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Posted - 2017.06.09 03:23:54 -
[115] - Quote
I agree with the ideas posted here about making Data sites drop the BPCs or buying them from faction LP stores. The Data site idea brings Data sites back into relevance and the faction LP store idea allows CCP to control their value via LP costs which take time to farm.
"Give a man a bullet and he'll want a gun. Give a man a gun and he'll give away bullets"
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RushRushRush Aishai
Perkone Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2017.06.09 03:37:26 -
[116] - Quote
i dont care what it changed what i cared is:
THE CHANGE HAS BEEN LEAKED MORE THAN 10 DAYS
some pp bought hundreds of billions of bpc now,its price maybe doubled
dont know how it leaked but it happened how could we stand this?!! |
D'nara Atreidis
Sub--Zero The Bastion
0
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Posted - 2017.06.09 03:38:43 -
[117] - Quote
Pirate battle ships are not cheap for many people.... nor are the useful DED space modules.... of course the stupid ones are cheap... but the better ones are 50 mill+ with some dang near 1 billion isk... The only people that pirate battle ships are cheap for are the same ones who will have the isk to buy them regardless of the changes.... Nerf their stats and you get the end goal which is to widen ship choice... dont make them the price of a freaking carrier |
JC Mieyli
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
75
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Posted - 2017.06.09 04:34:54 -
[118] - Quote
putting impact on the economy and leak conspiracies to one side for a moment i wanna talk about power levels of pirate bs no one ever used to use bs for solo or small gang stuff because they are garbage the fact people even use pirate bs in these roles tells us one thing pirate bs are in the right place for where bs should be in terms of capability all bs should be rebalanced to where pirate bs are now because the pirate bs are the only bs that are in the right place |
Sylvia Kildare
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
75
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Posted - 2017.06.09 05:12:51 -
[119] - Quote
Mizhir wrote:Coelus Kugisa wrote:Hisec incursion tears will be extra salty. I doubt they will care much. They have already flown pirate BS for years and can easily afford the increase cost in the hull.
Not to mention that a lot of incursioners are still flying their same hulls from years ago. Incursion pirate BSes don't die every day. Hell, some spent 1.2 to 1.5 bil ISK on their Vindi or Mach hull and are still using it to this day.
I hope some middleground between the cheap 300-400 mil ISK hulls of the past year and the 1.2 to 1.5 range can be found. Maybe the 600-900 range or so?
I've gotten into Marauders in the past year or two and as the pirate BS prices dropped and Marauders stayed relatively stable (I know, t2 ship production costs are fairly high, especially above the cruiser size), it's always struck me that that gap is too high. And yes, the Navy BS prices were, in some cases, nearly double their comparable pirate BS prices.
Sanity is cool. But please don't overcompensate the other way, CCP. |
Lamajagarn McMyra
No Vacancies No Vacancies.
21
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Posted - 2017.06.09 05:13:12 -
[120] - Quote
JC Mieyli wrote:putting impact on the economy and leak conspiracies to one side for a moment i wanna talk about power levels of pirate bs no one ever used to use bs for solo or small gang stuff because they are garbage the fact people even use pirate bs in these roles tells us one thing pirate bs are in the right place for where bs should be in terms of capability all bs should be rebalanced to where pirate bs are now because the pirate bs are the only bs that are in the right place
Faction battleships are average now since pretty much everyone use them exclusively. Hell, put plat insurance on it and you're dealing with prices similar to t2 cruiser (2-400mil).
If t1 battleships were the norm, t1 would be considered okay and faction actually good. |
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