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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Zoey Quickpoke
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2017.06.09 13:20:06 -
[151] - Quote
JC Mieyli wrote:Cartheron Crust wrote:Heh all this crying about BUT I JUST TRAINED/BOUGHT NOW WHY YOU NERF?!!1 One of the things I first learned/read about in EVE was don't FOTM chase. As it will get nerfed when you least want it too. Even more so now if you are going to go out and buy injectors to fly that FOTM stuff. :AdaptOrDie: [EDIT] - I for one will enjoy seeing less pirate BS as the norm. Even though it's going to take a while to churn through the, what I imagine, are massive stockpiles. eh theyre not being nerfed theyre just putting more isk into rich player hands is all and nerfing mining so to increase the value further and now nerfing ratting so their isk becomes more valuable this has nothing to do with game balance or health of the economy it comes down to 2 things 1 - get rich players even richer and screw the economy 2 - get everyone flying t3cs to make more $$$ from sp extractors
Maybe you haven't the t3 focus group but T3C's are on the operating table too! big changes are coming! |
JC Mieyli
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
78
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Posted - 2017.06.09 13:58:01 -
[152] - Quote
yeah but removal of sp loss isnt one of them lol |
Jehle
Cruisers Crew Badfellas Inc.
1
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Posted - 2017.06.09 15:03:06 -
[153] - Quote
This is ********. Why mess with the "player run" economy at all? |
SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
3167
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Posted - 2017.06.09 15:43:05 -
[154] - Quote
Jehle wrote:This is ********. Why mess with the "player run" economy at all?
Because it's actually a simulated economy and, unlike a real economy, there's an effectively limitless influx of new resources instead of a finite amount of material in the universe and, consequently, the flow rate of this influx periodically requires management.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
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Amarth X
Homicidal Suicidal IT'S ONLY PIXELS
16
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Posted - 2017.06.09 15:49:01 -
[155] - Quote
Did you consider that pirate battleships might be cheap simply because battleships in general are? Which in turn can be explained by their weakness in large scale fleet fights.
Most alliances have been favouring HAC and T3 doctrines for many years, simply because they are that much better. They have far smaller sig, they apply damage better, they are faster on grid and in warp.
While the advantages of BS are very few. They do not provide a lot of extra EHP and the extra they get does not make up for the significantly larger sig radius. They do more damage but apply it worse. The only real benefit of BS are that utility slots are much easier to fit, plus the ability to use a few oddball BS-only modules.
This is the root of the problem. Pirate/faction battleships are about the only BS that make sense to use for doctrines, since they overall have larger bonuses than t1. So maybe fix the root of the problem: make BS useful in fleet pvp.
Their main weaknesses are sig radius and warp speed. They are supposed to be big and slow so that's fine. But maybe compensate this by actually giving them higher damage and better tank than cruisers? Right now BS are pretty low on the food chain, having to fear anything from stealth bombers, to sig tanking T3, to blap dreads.
---
In addition, I don't believe there is such a big relation between the amount of BPCs dropped and the ships on market. Likely, industrialists aim to get BPCs for ships that give the greatest profit. Supply and demand dictates that the ships that are used the most will get built the most.
The by far best BS for large scale fleet fights is the Machariel, which is also likely the reason why it is currently expensive compared to the other pirate BS. While the Bhaalgorn is cheapest by far, since it is useless for anything but small gang pvp.
---
Overall, I wish CCP could focus their endless re-balancing projects on things that are fundamentally broken, rather than on things that presently work somewhat well. Instead of tinkering with pirate BS and T3, why not focus on fixing completely broken things such as the bumping mechanics, the cloak mechanics and the nullsec sov system.
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Jonathon Rodriguez
SUNDER. Clouds Of War
0
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Posted - 2017.06.09 16:57:44 -
[156] - Quote
JC Mieyli wrote:increase material cost and lower bpc means less availability for pirate bs this means all the industrialists get to build pirate bs early and stockpile screws over the young industiralist again
how about for once instead of increasing cost to benefit veteran industrialist try lowering the cost of everything else to help the young industrialist and screw the rich fatcat players would be niceto see this happen for a change
THIS is the truth. |
Max Deveron
Deveron Shipyards and Technology
384
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Posted - 2017.06.09 17:07:22 -
[157] - Quote
Jonathon Rodriguez wrote:JC Mieyli wrote:increase material cost and lower bpc means less availability for pirate bs this means all the industrialists get to build pirate bs early and stockpile screws over the young industiralist again
how about for once instead of increasing cost to benefit veteran industrialist try lowering the cost of everything else to help the young industrialist and screw the rich fatcat players would be niceto see this happen for a change THIS is the truth.
hmmm, the truth.......???
I am one of those rich fatcat vet indy guys that builds everything else......please do on reducing the costs. |
Mhari Dson
Lazy Brothers Inc
127
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Posted - 2017.06.09 17:11:13 -
[158] - Quote
in regards to all of this ^^^
Escalation nerf for anomalies would be an ok idea, but apply it across the board not just to top grade anomalies.
Faction BPC droprate: can't say I run nullsec sites so best I could offer there is to not theorycraft on what i don't know. an alternative suggestion would be allow limited numbers of faction newb ship bpc's to drop.
Build cost changes: I don't agree with special materials requirements unless the material droprates are also increased to compensate for the increased load, instead normalizing them to require similar materials to their T1 counterparts (for all not just BS) would be in line.
Rebalance: it's not the faction BS's that need a balance pass, it's the T1's. Fitting is tighter and they can't compete well.
As for fleet doctrine usage..... as long as there is a supply, there will be usage. |
JC Mieyli
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
84
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Posted - 2017.06.09 17:26:40 -
[159] - Quote
Max Deveron wrote:Jonathon Rodriguez wrote:JC Mieyli wrote:increase material cost and lower bpc means less availability for pirate bs this means all the industrialists get to build pirate bs early and stockpile screws over the young industiralist again
how about for once instead of increasing cost to benefit veteran industrialist try lowering the cost of everything else to help the young industrialist and screw the rich fatcat players would be niceto see this happen for a change THIS is the truth. hmmm, the truth.......??? I am one of those rich fatcat vet indy guys that builds everything else......please do on reducing the costs. glad you agree those markets should become more accessible i find your selfless disregard for your own source of income quite commendable
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Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
1209
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Posted - 2017.06.09 18:06:26 -
[160] - Quote
this is not nerf to pirate ships this is padding certain ppl wallets in game
faction ship need to be looked up TFI especially it should get range bonus like mach or vargur to be stepping stone to those ships without tank like varg or warp speed and general mobility like mach it wont step on them but will be at least viable to do dmg where those ship can project.
Insted being saddest of tempest hulls faction battleship even with lowest dmg output among all minmatar battleship while having dual friking dmg bonus.
I like my X-Type stuff but that shiet need to have price tag on it(as in rare) and not be traded for pocket change.
You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear
Because >>I is too hard
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Gallente Citizen 92008988
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2017.06.09 18:47:59 -
[161] - Quote
IMO
Should start with changing the building materials amounts first. It only makes sense, but CCP has a history of doing the wrong things for the benefit of the few.
Loving the free to play aspect of the game
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Kay Bold
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2017.06.09 18:59:16 -
[162] - Quote
Once again ccp pandering to Null cry babies and screwing everybody over. Pirate ships unbalanced? as if they had T3C resists... nope.
And thanks for releasing this info before the changes, all we wanted was for more market manipulation to happen. Couse u'know plex reaching 1,5Bi is totally fine.
"Balance". This will just ****-block the poorest and small groups. I don't see any of eve's empires struggling to pay 1Bi in a ship hull to build a fleet. And it only benefits the same empires that hold the territories in order to farm the bloody BPs
T1 and faction Battleships suck, how about some buffs on them??? |
Pegs Thiesant
The Draconis Combine Deus Vult.
0
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Posted - 2017.06.09 19:08:53 -
[163] - Quote
JC Mieyli wrote:Alekseyev Karrde wrote:JC Mieyli wrote:increase material cost and lower bpc means less availability for pirate bs this means all the industrialists get to build pirate bs early and stockpile screws over the young industiralist again
how about for once instead of increasing cost to benefit veteran industrialist try lowering the cost of everything else to help the young industrialist and screw the rich fatcat players would be niceto see this happen for a change "Instead of rebalancing one part of the game that's out of alignment, please change literally everything else about the EVE economy." yup is that a problem and tbh its not the one part of the game thats out of alignment the whole economy is out of alignment because of players taking advantage of mineral cost increases and thats what is going to happen here too
Hmmmm how about this: Eve is a true reflection of real life, it is as corrupt, full of spongers, con artists, and people just trying to screw you out of your isk, either through scams or multifaceted corps making the price fixing. (can't wait to hear the responses)
But also as in real life there are some honest, reliable and trustworthy people in this game. You either except that or you dont, we all have a choice. |
SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
3169
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Posted - 2017.06.09 19:12:07 -
[164] - Quote
Kay Bold wrote:Once again ccp pandering to Null cry babies
Really, you think this is at the request of null pilots?
The ones fielding machs as mainline doctrines?
Really?
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
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Maya Sakamoto
morti invictus dominus Evil.Tech
0
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Posted - 2017.06.09 19:46:48 -
[165] - Quote
SurrenderMonkey wrote:Kay Bold wrote:Once again ccp pandering to Null cry babies Really, you think this is at the request of null pilots? The ones fielding machs as mainline doctrines? Really?
What he/she's getting at is the this won't (necessarily) affect the pockets of those able to hang in null, but will definitely hurt new players/small corps and alliances. No need to deflect the point.
If anything, it's an attempt by CCP to drive plex sales up by "poorer" indy/pvp players to be able to stay in the current doctrines/metas to otherwise be competitive as well as being able to afford the cost increases. Meanwhile the veteran indy players will enjoy their added income along the way once this happens.
As suggested before, CCP could have ninja-nerfed the drop rates for the BPCs and be done with it. The price increases won't really raise so much until the current stockpiles of those BPCs start running dry, but you can bet some will jump on trying to make them raise before it's "necessary". |
O2 jayjay
Usque Ad Mortem Solyaris Chtonium
62
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Posted - 2017.06.10 02:56:16 -
[166] - Quote
This is a great change. Thank you CCP! We can get back to where large fights were T1 battleships. game was great and only the elite brought out faction battleships. Buff battleships and HAC and take away extreme buffer T3 crusiers and we will have a pretty nice balanced game. |
O2 jayjay
Usque Ad Mortem Solyaris Chtonium
62
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Posted - 2017.06.10 03:22:47 -
[167] - Quote
NightmareX wrote:SurrenderMonkey wrote:Really? It would be bad to let them be super expensive (if we're really calling a billion super-expensive )? Objectively bad, or just bad for you? Maybe poors should use something else for their "main" battleships? Yes, going over a billion isk for a Pirate Battleship is expensive. I had a Vindicator some years ago that did cost 1.3 bill isk which was really expensive. It would be bad for alot of us and not just me, even though alot of us isn't poor.
I had vindicators that were 1.3 bil per hull also. If they go back to 1.3 bil its no where near as expensive Like they were back then. First, there were no escalations from anoms. Second, after down time is when the russians and euros would fight for the 10/10. As you had to scan them down and they didnt respawn until downtime. So, if you wernt on after downtime, no 10/10's for you. Lastly, plex was 450mil. So a vindicator was almsot $60 compared to $20 if they were to reach 1.3bil today. I dont feel any pity because thats how I learned. I had to pay every month and wait for my skill que. Today yall can just kill inject if you want to fly something. Yall are spoiled but dont worry, This will make you stronger! |
Sethyrh Nakrar
203
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Posted - 2017.06.10 03:49:03 -
[168] - Quote
The problem with BS in general right now is, their ballance is a mess. Some are too expensive for what they can do(Scorpion Navy), some are realy specialized(Rokh), some where way too cheap(Machariel, Bhaalgorn) and some are now hillarious expensive(Barghest). And then the ones, who are very strange(Typhoon). Just increasing the ammount of minerals to build pirate-BS and lower the drops of their BPCs fixes nothing. It just messes everything more up. The navy-BS are in need of a re-work. Some of the T1 even more.
Praise the Omnissiah!
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Karmen Baric
State War Academy Caldari State
7
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Posted - 2017.06.10 04:47:09 -
[169] - Quote
People play this game to have lots of ships they can fly around and nerfing the ability to afford those ships means some players will simply leave the game.
Bad move. |
JC Mieyli
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
87
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Posted - 2017.06.10 05:56:58 -
[170] - Quote
Sethyrh Nakrar wrote:The problem with BS in general right now is, their ballance is a mess. Some are too expensive for what they can do(Scorpion Navy), some are realy specialized(Rokh), some where way too cheap(Machariel, Bhaalgorn) and some are now hillarious expensive(Barghest). And then the ones, who are very strange(Typhoon). Just increasing the ammount of minerals to build pirate-BS and lower the drops of their BPCs fixes nothing. It just messes everything more up. The navy-BS are in need of a re-work. Some of the T1 even more. like i said earlier it seems to me like the only bses in the right place are the pirate bses id like to see all non-t2 bses rebalanced to be on same power levels as pirate bses just give the pirate hulls a special pirate feature similar to mach warp speed or something and then navy hulls can have a unique feature maybe you cant lose sec status and standings and t1 are just as powerful just without the bonus features of the faction hulls i think this will bring bses back into the meta for all players for all reasons people might say they will be too powerful and kill small gang and small ship meta but pirate bses already do that in their current state and who cares small ships have had their fun killing larger metas for long enough imo |
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Kenrailae
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
771
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Posted - 2017.06.10 10:47:41 -
[171] - Quote
Karmen Baric wrote:People play this game to have lots of ships they can fly around and nerfing the ability to afford those ships means some players will simply leave the game.
Bad move.
Eve isn't for everyone. Also bad is having ships which should require more investment, more 'risk for reward' be negligible on the 'risk' side, for a much larger reward.
The Law is a point of View
The NPE IS a big deal
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NextDarkKnight
Mental Disorders Inc. Guardians of the Asylum
59
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Posted - 2017.06.10 11:44:29 -
[172] - Quote
So by changing the minerals does that make them somewhat insurable? |
Ama Zing
Black Scorpions Inc Circle-Of-Two
22
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Posted - 2017.06.10 12:49:38 -
[173] - Quote
Hey Fozzie,
as this game is announced sandbox by CCP, what is your understanding of a sandbox?
As soon as there are market tendencies detected by you, you influence the market with the argument, that the market is manipulated by large entities! You shouldn't do that in a sandbox!
The more you do to "shield" the market, the more flexible the community responds. Do you really think, that an entitiy like the goons mine less with that rorqal **** over? Nope, because they can!
If you really think to nerf the Pirate BPC drops is going to influence, what ships are in future fleets, you are wrong again. The playerbase will adapt as always.
Stop being a sandbox lawyer and let the game develop itself without being directed. I know that you put a **** ton of work into this game and you have my respect for that. But influencing the game like you did with those last two patches, makes large entities even stronger and the smaller entities are not able to compete anymore.
If you want content, let the playerbase create it. If the vets stop playing, you can't do any "reverse engineering" to make them play again. Believe me!
cheers Ama Zing
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Mhari Dson
Lazy Brothers Inc
127
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Posted - 2017.06.10 14:46:50 -
[174] - Quote
NextDarkKnight wrote:So by changing the minerals does that make them somewhat insurable?
Depends on how much they get changed. |
Elithiel en Gravonere
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
10
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Posted - 2017.06.10 16:13:58 -
[175] - Quote
I personally am very happy about the changes. For too long, the price of Rattlesnakes and other pirate battleships was far too low. Suppliers like me got out of that market because, Jita Traders were playing silly buggers with the market and what should be a very expensive ship was going for a price point below what it actually costs to collect the BPC alone...
Now hopefully this puts BPC suppliers like myself back in the market. I'd also like to see more use of T1 battleships instead of everything being pirate ones and this helps do that. |
tasman devil
Puritans We want your ISK
86
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Posted - 2017.06.10 17:06:54 -
[176] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote: something something... Obviously the price isn't the only balance concern about a ship group as prominent and diverse as pirate battleships, and other factors such as the strength of Upwell structure energy neutralization weapons contribute to the dominance of the Machariel in particular. However after giving this situation some thought internally and engaging in plenty of community discussion through venues such as Fanfest and the CSM, we agree that price should be the target of the first set of changes.
whatever whatever
If you have problem with Machs then why not address that in the first place?!? Like Finally getting to the point of Projectile weapons actually needing capacitor to fire?!?!
(while you are at it, the same could be said for the missile launchers too)
I don't belive in reincarnation
I've never believed in it in my previous lives either...
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Cartheron Crust
Matari Exodus
217
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Posted - 2017.06.10 18:31:51 -
[177] - Quote
tasman devil wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote: something something... Obviously the price isn't the only balance concern about a ship group as prominent and diverse as pirate battleships, and other factors such as the strength of Upwell structure energy neutralization weapons contribute to the dominance of the Machariel in particular. However after giving this situation some thought internally and engaging in plenty of community discussion through venues such as Fanfest and the CSM, we agree that price should be the target of the first set of changes.
whatever whatever If you have problem with Machs then why not address that in the first place?!? Like Finally getting to the point of Projectile weapons actually needing capacitor to fire?!?! (while you are at it, the same could be said for the missile launchers too)
WTF? No just no.
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Spc One
The Chodak Void Alliance
321
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Posted - 2017.06.11 01:39:12 -
[178] - Quote
Can you please also intervene in PLEX prices ? as they're too high so please lower them.
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Spc One
The Chodak Void Alliance
321
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Posted - 2017.06.11 02:16:03 -
[179] - Quote
Ama Zing wrote:As soon as there are market tendencies detected by you, you influence the market with the argument, that the market is manipulated by large entities! You shouldn't do that in a sandbox! Exactly, players set the prices for all the items in game, ccp should not intervene.
If pirate battleships are too cheap, why is PLEX expenssive ? Maybe ccp should intervene in PLEX prices so we get cheaper plex too.
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Shinji Katsuragi
Y.G.G.D.R.A.S.I.L. Branch
8
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Posted - 2017.06.11 02:52:28 -
[180] - Quote
If you want people to use other ships-MAKE THEM WORTH USING AND COST EFFECTIVE. Buff t1,t2, t3 ships |
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