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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Starkiller Kashuken
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
0
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Posted - 2017.06.09 13:52:09 -
[391] - Quote
Wow ccp has zero clue about there own game lets take 2 k dps away from a super whos fighters cant brake ******* 4 t2 logi just just take supers and carrier out of this game at this point cause there ******* useless anyway seeing as they cant defend them self's after this patch
way to go ccp good job knowing anything |
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
16069
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:52:47 -
[392] - Quote
Panther X wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Count Basie Thellere wrote:Not impressed. Every time I spend ages training to get into a ship with good specs CCP nerfs them. Makes me wonder why I waste my time with this game. Smart people learn that following the Flavor of the month is bad. While everyone around me was ratting with Carriers or afking with ishtar's, I stuck to my MJD Rattlesnake. I told my bros "they are going to nerf those you know". Find something you like that works but isn't the FotM. Those things always get the axe. Happens in PVP too, which is why I never got to fond of the Orthrus, because they are going to nerf those things lol. Carriers were never FOTM. I've been ratting in carriers for years. Subcaps just take too long to move on. Maybe I have too short an attention span, I don't know, but carrier ratting has been around a lot longer than the last expansion you know. Flavour of the Month, indeed.
Don't be ignorant. You know (or should know) that not as many people were carrier/super ratting before the fighter changes. People across EVE were more likely to use AFKtars with multiple characters.
Have you looked at CCPs economic report? Would you like for me to post the one before the fighter changes and the one right after the fighter changes that show a spike in null sec bounties? Would you like to see the zkill stats for the same period that shows more carriers dying with npcs on the KM after the fighter changes (meaning more carriers in anoms)?
Yes carriers and supers became the FOTM for ratting, the proof is available in the places I mentioned if you don't believe this. |
Panther X
High Flyers Northern Coalition.
132
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:53:16 -
[393] - Quote
Geanos wrote:The simplest solution would be to put a tax on bounties for carriers, supers or any other ship class you fancy. Bounties are calculated at 15 minutes, right? So if you add a formula for carrier/super ratting like this - total bounties per tick (tbt) = tbt - (tbt * 20) / 100 - the server extra load would be negligible. Having the ability to put a bounty tax on certain classes of ships would also help you in the future.
I think this is way better than straight up nerfing. And with a tax on bounties you won't have touch the PVP capabilities of ships "because of ISK".
You're right, server load would be negligible, as they do it right now in hisec anyway. The autotax on NPC corps...that goes to CCP does it not? I make my own corp and set corp tax at %5, that comes automatically with each tick. Add a CONCORD tax to bounties, and a year end income tax payable by personal, corporate and alliance income taxes.
My Titan smells of rich Corinthian Leather...
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Sam Khanid
Ascendance Goonswarm Federation
0
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Posted - 2017.06.09 13:53:40 -
[394] - Quote
Who hasn't experienced the sheer joy and glee of catching a carrier ratting an anom too? Whose going to want to take that risk vs reward gamble now? Just such a novice, unthoughtful move. |
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
16069
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Posted - 2017.06.09 13:53:52 -
[395] - Quote
FT Diomedes wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Sassura wrote:[That doesn't mean that there won't be frustration and backlash when they introduce heavy nerfs to fix problems that, essentially, they have caused.
I've been saying this to CCP on these forums for years. They create their own problems by not understanding that they have to be careful about giving people stuff that is too powerful, because people get used to it and feel like you took something away when you balance it. My 1st brush with this was high sec lvl 5 missions. CCP introduced lvl 5 missions to give people incentive to go to low sec, but a bug let you spawn the actual mission in high sec if you were in a low sec system that bordered high sec. A whole high sec lvl 5 community spawned around this. And CCP took YEARS to fix it. So when they did the cry was "why did you remove lvl 5s from high sec?!?!?!?". They tried to explain that they should have never been there in the 1st place but it was too late, the anger was already there. CCP did this again and again, lately with ratting carriers and rorqs. You can see by this thread and others how it's being perceived. CCP, stop putting OP stuff in in the 1st place and this won't happen. I cannot wait to see the outcry when the T3 changes finally come through.
Not enough popcorn in the world for that one.
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ArmyOfMe
Hull Breach.
635
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 13:54:03 -
[396] - Quote
All those goon tears, all worth it
GM Guard > I must ask you not to use the petition option like this again but i personally would finish the chicken sandwich first so it won´t go to waste. The spaghetti will keep and you can use it the next time you get hungry. Best regards.
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michaeltward
Digital Chess Session Moral Ambiguity
4
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Posted - 2017.06.09 13:55:20 -
[397] - Quote
Carriers are already kind of suck in pvp as it is especially in wormholes where they are in low nubers and ecm screws them so hard so congrats on making them completely useless. |
realmkiller
Occidendi Apocalypse Now.
8
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Posted - 2017.06.09 13:57:11 -
[398] - Quote
Its CCP's way to screw over its player base and try and make some more money before everyone quits and starts playing star citizen when its released |
Dengdeng Xiao
Dragon Can Surf Silent Infinity
0
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Posted - 2017.06.09 13:57:36 -
[399] - Quote
so, i see ....this game is, if you don't have three or four account ,then you fxxk off ?
why you just nerf carriers? the mutiple players using smart bomb ratting has been ignored? let em go?
ok, ccp, u win .
i'm out. |
JC Mieyli
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
78
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Posted - 2017.06.09 13:59:13 -
[400] - Quote
realmkiller wrote:Its CCP's way to screw over its player base and try and make some more money before everyone quits and starts playing star citizen when its released thats how it seems to me its called a death rattle i believe |
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Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
16070
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 14:00:03 -
[401] - Quote
Dengdeng Xiao wrote:so, i see ....this game is, if you don't have three or four account ,then you fxxk off ?
why you just nerf carriers? the mutiple players using smart bomb ratting has been ignored? let em go?
ok, ccp, u win .
i'm out.
Smartbomb ratting havens takes multiple characters and ONLY works on a couple of anom types (good luck smart bomb ratting a Gas Cloud Haven lol). |
Panther X
High Flyers Northern Coalition.
133
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Posted - 2017.06.09 14:00:05 -
[402] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Panther X wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Count Basie Thellere wrote:Not impressed. Every time I spend ages training to get into a ship with good specs CCP nerfs them. Makes me wonder why I waste my time with this game. Smart people learn that following the Flavor of the month is bad. While everyone around me was ratting with Carriers or afking with ishtar's, I stuck to my MJD Rattlesnake. I told my bros "they are going to nerf those you know". Find something you like that works but isn't the FotM. Those things always get the axe. Happens in PVP too, which is why I never got to fond of the Orthrus, because they are going to nerf those things lol. Carriers were never FOTM. I've been ratting in carriers for years. Subcaps just take too long to move on. Maybe I have too short an attention span, I don't know, but carrier ratting has been around a lot longer than the last expansion you know. Flavour of the Month, indeed. Don't be ignorant. You know (or should know) that not as many people were carrier/super ratting before the fighter changes. People across EVE were more likely to use AFKtars with multiple characters. Have you looked at CCPs economic report? Would you like for me to post the one before the fighter changes and the one right after the fighter changes that show a spike in null sec bounties? Would you like to see the zkill stats for the same period that shows more carriers dying with npcs on the KM after the fighter changes (meaning more carriers in anoms)? Yes carriers and supers became the FOTM for ratting, the proof is available in the places I mentioned if you don't believe this.
Don't be insulting because you are behind the meta. I have known about carrier ratting and super ratting for years. and have made billions on it. More people have been doing it lately, yes, but that doesn't make it Flavour of the Month. Rorquals, now that is a different story.
There's no need to be rude because you are stuck in your own little world and are afraid to try something else. I was carrier and super ratting long before carriers and fighters were changed and will continue to do so. Who knows? I may start ratting in my titan again and getting even more dank ticks.
Don't think you can look down your nose at anyone because you think your way is best though.
My Titan smells of rich Corinthian Leather...
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Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
16070
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 14:01:36 -
[403] - Quote
Panther X wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Panther X wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Count Basie Thellere wrote:Not impressed. Every time I spend ages training to get into a ship with good specs CCP nerfs them. Makes me wonder why I waste my time with this game. Smart people learn that following the Flavor of the month is bad. While everyone around me was ratting with Carriers or afking with ishtar's, I stuck to my MJD Rattlesnake. I told my bros "they are going to nerf those you know". Find something you like that works but isn't the FotM. Those things always get the axe. Happens in PVP too, which is why I never got to fond of the Orthrus, because they are going to nerf those things lol. Carriers were never FOTM. I've been ratting in carriers for years. Subcaps just take too long to move on. Maybe I have too short an attention span, I don't know, but carrier ratting has been around a lot longer than the last expansion you know. Flavour of the Month, indeed. Don't be ignorant. You know (or should know) that not as many people were carrier/super ratting before the fighter changes. People across EVE were more likely to use AFKtars with multiple characters. Have you looked at CCPs economic report? Would you like for me to post the one before the fighter changes and the one right after the fighter changes that show a spike in null sec bounties? Would you like to see the zkill stats for the same period that shows more carriers dying with npcs on the KM after the fighter changes (meaning more carriers in anoms)? Yes carriers and supers became the FOTM for ratting, the proof is available in the places I mentioned if you don't believe this. Don't be insulting because you are behind the meta. I have known about carrier ratting and super ratting for years. and have made billions on it. More people have been doing it lately, yes, but that doesn't make it Flavour of the Month. Rorquals, now that is a different story. There's no need to be rude because you are stuck in your own little world and are afraid to try something else. I was carrier and super ratting long before carriers and fighters were changed and will continue to do so. Who knows? I may start ratting in my titan again and getting even more dank ticks. Don't think you can look down your nose at anyone because you think your way is best though.
Thought I'd stop by and highlight the one part that makes something FOTM. |
Sam Khanid
Ascendance Goonswarm Federation
0
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Posted - 2017.06.09 14:02:03 -
[404] - Quote
It's not just the nerf, its the size and scope of it as well -- damage coupled with increased targeting from rats -- I didn't believe people when they were telling me about it. I thought, no way they're that rash to nerf two different contributors at the same time but such huge margins...
Guess I was wrong, and as a principle of program design--this is something we are warned in class not to ever do. Don't change multiple variables simultaneously by large margins. Bad things happen. |
James Kestrel
Everyone vs Everything THE R0NIN
2
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Posted - 2017.06.09 14:02:45 -
[405] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Faruzen en Divalone wrote:
The problem here is the devaluation of ISK, when group of players generate way too much of it. Players who do not generate that much then suffer and are poor. And its getting worse, when ISK sinks do not remove the excess ISK from game. Scissors are opening wider. Its quite complicated, thats why they have economist in the team.
Perfectly well said. What carriers and supers have done is devalue isk, meaning that you have to rat even longer even with a carrier or super to make enough for a plex. In addition to that, soooo many escalations meant that the deadspace loot was near worthless. A lot of players are too young in the game to remember when doing a DED site and getting a good drop meant you had enough isk for 2 months of game time (when plex was 500 mil and a Mach blueprint would get you 1 bil, getting that BPc was HITTING THE LOTTERY). Now you have to do like 10 DED 10/10s to get enough loot to turn into ONE month of game time.
vid maker **| **swagmaster | "Don't be yolo and fly solo!"
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Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
3379
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 14:03:32 -
[406] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Count Basie Thellere wrote:Not impressed. Every time I spend ages training to get into a ship with good specs CCP nerfs them. Makes me wonder why I waste my time with this game. Smart people learn that following the Flavor of the month is bad. While everyone around me was ratting with Carriers or afking with ishtar's, I stuck to my MJD Rattlesnake. I told my bros "they are going to nerf those you know". Find something you like that works but isn't the FotM. Those things always get the axe. Happens in PVP too, which is why I never got to fond of the Orthrus, because they are going to nerf those things lol.
CCP essentially gave us a paint suppliers to paint them in corners every time they create a gravy train with skill injectors too. Every time they mess up, a large number of player can inject up to the new fad and milk it while it used to be a rather slow process unless you hit the bazaar for a character someone somehow pre-trained for that new niche by accident or were trained for it already for some reason. To avoid backlash from the player base, they really need to get the balancing engine into high gear soon so they can intervene on any badly balanced things they create faster than months after people invested into it. |
Total Newbie
Hogyoku Goonswarm Federation
119
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 14:03:37 -
[407] - Quote
Finally, the guide to how CCP Developers create this game:
http://i.imgur.com/NTsj8ts.png |
Niraia
Starcakes Shadow Cartel
531
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 14:03:38 -
[408] - Quote
What is wrong with you?
GÖÑ
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Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners ChaosTheory.
16070
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 14:03:38 -
[409] - Quote
Sam Khanid wrote:It's not just the nerf, its the size and scope of it as well -- damage coupled with increased targeting from rats -- I didn't believe people when they were telling me about it. I thought, no way they're that rash to nerf two different contributors at the same time but such huge margins...
Guess I was wrong, and as a principle of program design--this is something we are warned in class not to ever do. Don't change multiple variables simultaneously by large margins. Bad things happen.
You didn't know that CCP does multiple nerfs at a time? Like they have since 2003?
You must be really new lol.
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wertolot
Wertolot-Yutani corp. Shadow of xXDEATHXx
23
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Posted - 2017.06.09 14:03:46 -
[410] - Quote
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Aernir Ridley
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
13
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Posted - 2017.06.09 14:04:12 -
[411] - Quote
Just... no. Look, the training time to get into any capital ship should justify their increased damage over subcaps (which in the grand scheme of things isn't really that much when you take into account how easy it is to kill fighters now). Also, while I can understand that super ratting may produce a relatively large increase in money gain, normal carriers before this update still make equal to or less than incursions for a higher CPM. You're paying 2+ billion isk to make roughly 50 mil/tick (150 mil/hour) in a 100% dedicated ratting nidhoggur/thanatos with near max skills. And that's also assuming you're a part of a sov nullsec entity which can support those operations.
With this update, not only will they be easier for both characters and NCPs to kill, but fighters will also do less damage per squadron than a single gecko on any drone ship with decent bonuses. It was already getting difficult to justify using carriers in combat with the fighter sig increase, but now with a TWENTY PERCENT decrease to light fighter damage you're talking about reducing the damage of a carrier from ~2500-3000 dps to ~2000-2400. That's a MASSIVE difference (especially when you're trying to break a fleet's logistics), and with it the only advantage to flying a carrier over a subcap will be their ability to tank enormous amounts of damage. Please for the love of god do not further kill the effectiveness of carriers!
"For most people, the sky's the limit... For those who love aviation, the sky, is home."
-Cheers! :D
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cameron123 oneil
UNITAS. ChaosTheory.
0
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 14:06:00 -
[412] - Quote
CCP Larrikin wrote:Hi Space Friends, Coming with our release on Tuesday, weGÇÖre significantly reducing the damage output of Fighters. Why:We are making this change because Carriers & Supercarriers are too strong in PvE, specifically anomaly ratting in Nullsec. As you may have seen in the May Monthly Economy Report, there is a significant upward trend in the Money Supply. This is primarily due to NPC Bounties. This trend is unsustainable. Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players. We also think that Carriers and Supercarriers are a bit too effective in PvP now. This change will significantly change the PvP balance, but weGÇÖre confident that Carriers and Supercarriers will remain powerful options for PvP. What:- Light Fighters (Space Superiority): No Change
- Light Fighters (Attack): 20% reduction to Basic Attack and Heavy Rocket Salvo damage.
- Support Fighters: No Change
- Heavy Fighters (Heavy Attack): 10% reduction to Basic Attack and Torpedo Salvo damage.
- Heavy Fighters (Long Range Attack): 30% reduction to Basic Attack damage.
- Heavy Fighters (Shadow): No Change
- NPCs are 15% more likely to shoot at fighters than they are currently.
We will continue to observe the economy after these changes and will make adjustments as necessary to keep it healthy for all our players.
The way you are going why don't you just remove all caps I didn't train for MONTHS to get vni-rattlesnake ticks with my carrier |
Blaad Booyashaka
Hotline K162 The Clown Car
30
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 14:07:05 -
[413] - Quote
Second good balance change in one relasse? Holy **** CCP, I forgive you pausing my skill queues. |
Sam Khanid
Ascendance Goonswarm Federation
0
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 14:07:06 -
[414] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Sam Khanid wrote:It's not just the nerf, its the size and scope of it as well -- damage coupled with increased targeting from rats -- I didn't believe people when they were telling me about it. I thought, no way they're that rash to nerf two different contributors at the same time but such huge margins...
Guess I was wrong, and as a principle of program design--this is something we are warned in class not to ever do. Don't change multiple variables simultaneously by large margins. Bad things happen. You didn't know that CCP does multiple nerfs at a time? Like they have since 2003? You must be really new lol.
I don't see them nerf a ship in multiple capacities often, and by such huge numbers--when does that happen? |
Wayne Silk
The Scope Gallente Federation
3
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 14:08:14 -
[415] - Quote
CCP are u on coffee break ??? |
Panther X
High Flyers Northern Coalition.
134
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 14:08:14 -
[416] - Quote
No it would be FOTM if it had NEVER been a viable source before, like the Rorqual situation. Carriers and Supers have ALWAYS been a viable source of income, but the game changed to make the level of investment much easier to handle; skill injectors, low ship prices, etc. If no one had ever done it before and now all the cool kids do it, that's FOTM. Like a one hit wonder band. THAT is FOTM. Lowering the investment level to get into a profit making device is just opening a PROVEN income stream to more people.
My Titan smells of rich Corinthian Leather...
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Mossyblog Barnes
Kenshin. DARKNESS.
3
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Posted - 2017.06.09 14:09:11 -
[417] - Quote
Imho you're basing a lot of bad product management decisions of quantitative metrics. If you bothered to look at this more holistically you'd likely rationalise the events of income increases to be more focused on a number of contributing events - specifically microtransaction(s).
The Paradox of Thrift comes to mind here where you apparently aren't really factoring in player behaviours (qualitative). Some alliances and coalitions are right now actually coming out from under a "hoarding" behaviour, whereby they have been for the better part of month instructing members to "Krabbing" in order to get ready for larger PVP content next month.
Further to this, you have issues around CCP's introduction to microtransaction behaviour such as PLEX. This, in turn, has created a serious impact on the Eve economy on all product line(s). Moreover to the point the skill injector changes, in turn, has pushed pricing out further.
So now when you look at the said graph you've got a number of contributing variables that result in players likely more focused on PVE has given that's a likely easier route to liquidity in ISK which in turn feeds the aforementioned points (cause and effect).
Subtle effects introduced by CCP also IMHO hint strongly that you folks are opting towards removing the "Plex to Play" instead of heading towards "Pay to play". Things like selling Plex in a bundle of 240 via player purchases but then selling content such as skins for 250. You're effectively goading your player base to over buy in order to purchase, so either a player pays for the 500 ISK bundle or they pay 240 and 100 resulting in a 90 remainder. Its a form of economic affordance that's obviously similar to retail channels who put in place "minimum spend" targets on consumers.
The point I'm making is it's obvious you're attempting to draw further income from your player base in order to offset whatever investments you may be having as a company in either Eve Online or other product lines you're making.
Here's the reality though, you're not growing your market share at the moment and with these ongoing changes in passive income you're imposing a negative effect on the existing market share you have (therefore likely replenishing the market is less inclined).
Rorq mining is volatile at the moment due to anxiety about its changes (see 'Excavator' Mining Drone pricing indicative of its anxiety). Given your max reality for a Rorqual, a miner is approx 150m ISK per hour you in turn as a player may seek an alternative stream - in this case Super Ratting. De-invest in the Mining and re-invest back into PVE, but your buy-in is around 24billion+ for said super. This, in turn, means you'd need to grind for a month or maybe two in order to pay that investment back before you actually generate positive ISK.
Factor in now the risk(s) associated with super rating which is quite high, you've now got to then focus in around how larger corporation/alliances/coalitions protect their members within systems. In doing this they, in turn, localise their deployment strategies to ensure players centre around Keepstar(s) for responsive fleet strategies.
So what you graph don't show is Keepstar to System ratio(s) and where Super Ratting vs Deaths, as when you centre around these qualitative points you begin to have a better understanding of actual player behaviour(s) and why "super nerf" is required.
You haven't argued this point, instead, you've taken a bad sample of data and said something like "My dog barks loudly, therefore Cars need to be nerfed"... how do these two points relate? and suppressing the virtual economy right now is simply an incentive to de-invest play-time in the game.
Three months from now lets look at player login(s) per hour and compare results, I'll predict you'll see a reduction based on this ongoing behaviour to sweep the ISK creation.
Effectively you're suffering from the same spiral Ultima Online suffered when it introduced the Black Dye Tub - You've created a butterfly effect and you're imho not self-ware yet.
But you'll do what you want anyway, and thankfully we have CSM's there to protect us from behaviours that aren't player favoured -.....right?
Advocates...where are they again? |
Dengdeng Xiao
Dragon Can Surf Silent Infinity
1
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Posted - 2017.06.09 14:09:56 -
[418] - Quote
Fxxk you CCP, you'd better say "fxxk off losers we don't need you, we just need the player who have three or four accounts and ratting with the smartbomb." |
Hafwolf
StarHunt Mordus Angels
13
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 14:11:21 -
[419] - Quote
I remember when I started playing that sanctums took 3 or 4 battleships to run in a fleet. Now I can solo a sanctum or heaven in an Ishtar or most cruisers. Up the NPC stats not take down the ship stats. |
ALUCARD 1208
The Institution of Death Mercenary Coalition
458
|
Posted - 2017.06.09 14:12:31 -
[420] - Quote
CCP your new cash cow of extractors and injectors have caused this before them there was a natural progression as people trained into things.
Now we have your little baby and anyone can be in anything whenever they want, whatever becomes the highest isk source in game people will just extract and inject into or make alts and inject them to that.
The above is probably what you want to milk the already dwindling player base even more before the lights go out please get rid of the cancer guys like:-
Sean Decker- VP and ex EA Maria Sayans- Marketing exec and ex EA
since you have been taking on ex EA employees the game has gone to **** with so many micro transactions and nerfs to people incomes to try and force them to buy more plex with $$$ than with isk. And before the people who jump in say well hurr durr people have already paid ccp with the plex your paying isk for, yes this is true but if noone can achieve the isk/farm thats needed to do this its extra money in ccps pocket when they buy a a sub.
BEBOPS ODE TO PERUNGA
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