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Marek Kanenald
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
16
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Posted - 2017.06.11 10:51:53 -
[1] - Quote
We all know that local chat is an almost infallible source of intel and has a huge impact on the game.
I do not think removing local is a realistic goal and the consequences of doing so would be huge, however I do think the game would benefit from a reduction in power of local intel.
I propose adding a delay, 15-30 seconds or so to the time it takes to appear on local after entering a system.
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Do Little
Virgin Plc Evictus.
1284
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Posted - 2017.06.11 11:46:23 -
[2] - Quote
I sincerely doubt there will be any changes until CCP is ready to start talking about the Observatory Arrays which will likely become the primary intel source for people living in a region.
At that point, roaming gangs will probably be crying to keep local because they would otherwise be flying blind while the locals know what's going on! |
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
1260
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Posted - 2017.06.11 12:55:18 -
[3] - Quote
-1 - local needs to stay and it needs to stay instant in high and low since it is an integral part of staying safe in those areas especially since there are no practical options for solo players and small groups. If / when CCP changes that and gives solo and small groups an affordable option for setting up their own version of local then we can revisit this idea for high and low.
For nul sec I still do not think delayed local will work out the way you think it will. Attacking or defending a 15 - 30 second head start is a huge advantage in a section of space where it only takes a few seconds to have a very large fleet sitting on top of you. Besides I am not so sure I want to see the oceans of tears that the carebear nul sec ratters will cry when they start dying to roaming groups they did not even know were in the system with them.
DoLittle mentions the observatory arrays and there is an opportunity in those to be able to remove local at least in nul sec. However that will depend on what they actually become when they enter the game. If they are small, easy and quick to set up they may work because both defenders and attackers have the opportunity to use them. If they are expensive, difficult to set up or take a long period of time (more than a few minutes) to anchor and come online then these arrays would give an advantage to the defenders that would be extremely difficult to overcome. To be honest that would be an advantage the larger groups in nul sec do not need. |
Rivr Luzade
Kenshin. DARKNESS.
3061
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Posted - 2017.06.11 13:06:20 -
[4] - Quote
Marek Kanenald wrote:I propose adding a delay, 15-30 seconds or so to the time it takes to appear on local after entering a system. Obviously, during those 15-30 seconds you don't see who is in local either because the gate network can't access your ship's computer during that time. Flying blind for everyone.
UI Improvement Collective
My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
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Marek Kanenald
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
16
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Posted - 2017.06.11 14:39:08 -
[5] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:Marek Kanenald wrote:I propose adding a delay, 15-30 seconds or so to the time it takes to appear on local after entering a system. Obviously, during those 15-30 seconds you don't see who is in local either because the gate network can't access your ship's computer during that time. Flying blind for everyone.
No objection. |
Marek Kanenald
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
16
|
Posted - 2017.06.11 14:43:35 -
[6] - Quote
Donnachadh wrote:-1 - local needs to stay and it needs to stay instant in high and low since it is an integral part of staying safe in those areas especially since there are no practical options for solo players and small groups. If / when CCP changes that and gives solo and small groups an affordable option for setting up their own version of local then we can revisit this idea for high and low.
For nul sec I still do not think delayed local will work out the way you think it will. Attacking or defending a 15 - 30 second head start is a huge advantage in a section of space where it only takes a few seconds to have a very large fleet sitting on top of you. Besides I am not so sure I want to see the oceans of tears that the carebear nul sec ratters will cry when they start dying to roaming groups they did not even know were in the system with them.
DoLittle mentions the observatory arrays and there is an opportunity in those to be able to remove local at least in nul sec. However that will depend on what they actually become when they enter the game. If they are small, easy and quick to set up they may work because both defenders and attackers have the opportunity to use them. If they are expensive, difficult to set up or take a long period of time (more than a few minutes) to anchor and come online then these arrays would give an advantage to the defenders that would be extremely difficult to overcome. To be honest that would be an advantage the larger groups in nul sec do not need.
Forcing more contact is one of the reasons I proposed this.
Local is currently the only intel tool you need to pack your ratting/mining gear and go hide in a station. It is extremely passive and almost foolproof.
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Max Deveron
Deveron Shipyards and Technology
386
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Posted - 2017.06.11 17:27:59 -
[7] - Quote
nope, quit being a pansy ass then and just go do it.
Also post with your main or GTFO and take this shite up to the AFK sticky thread where it belongs. |
Marek Kanenald
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
16
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Posted - 2017.06.11 17:31:46 -
[8] - Quote
Max Deveron wrote:nope, quit being a pansy ass then and just go do it.
Also post with your main or GTFO and take this shite up to the AFK sticky thread where it belongs.
Triggered
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Max Deveron
Deveron Shipyards and Technology
386
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Posted - 2017.06.11 17:41:39 -
[9] - Quote
Marek Kanenald wrote:Max Deveron wrote:nope, quit being a pansy ass then and just go do it.
Also post with your main or GTFO and take this shite up to the AFK sticky thread where it belongs. Triggered
you are? good. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Viziam Amarr Empire
21536
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Posted - 2017.06.11 18:53:35 -
[10] - Quote
Marek Kanenald wrote:Max Deveron wrote:nope, quit being a pansy ass then and just go do it.
Also post with your main or GTFO and take this shite up to the AFK sticky thread where it belongs. Triggered
Quote:This thread comes up on almost a weekly basis. In fact, I'd be surprised if there wasn't a nerf cloaking thread in the first 2 pages on this forum section. Almost every single one of them goes like this:
1. OP posts a post with a new (lol) idea that always boils down to some variation of the following: - "There's a big meanie who is sitting in my system and not doing anything, but I don't know where he is and I can't ever just go next door. I can't find said meanie and even though I know that he's probably at work and poses no threat at all, I wont do anything in my system that I absolutely can't leave ever because he might not be at work and I might lose a ship. CCP please stop the meanie from being able to do nothing to me because he's probably at work"
2. Thread gets trolled because its been done literally to death. This horse has been beaten so hard and so often that it's little more than a memory of a memory of a red smear on the grass, and yet it STILL WONT DIE! In fact it's been done so many times that this particular horse is now undead; even if it does die, it will still be remembered and parodied.
3. Someone comes along and suggests that AFK cloakers can't hurt you, because they are, by their very definition, AFK. No one ever lost a ship to someone who ISN'T PLAYING THE GAME.
4. Someone else comes along and points out that while the cloaker might be AFK, he might not be, and so we have Schrodinger's Hot Dropper. The cyno pilot who might be AFK... but he might not be as well, and you will only know for sure when he decloaks, points and lights his candle. (Yes, I know this isn't how the cat works)
5. Someone else comes along and suggests that you use bait and setup a TARP. Or have a defence fleet on standby. Heaven forbid you have to actually fight to defend your space.
6. A further person comes along and suggests that the problem isn't cloaking AFK in your system that you can't possibly leave ever, but that you KNOW that the person is AFK in your system... and perhaps local should be removed because free 100% accurate intel is probably not the best thing in the game and if you didn't know that the big meanie was in your system, you wouldn't be worried about leaving the undock/POS.
7. Then another person pokes their head in and complains that local is 100% NEEDED because D-Scan and probing are such bad mechanics, and IF YOU TAKE MY LOCAL AWAY IM QUITTING FOREVER AND NO YOU CAN'T HAVE MY STUFF!
8. Someone asks if they can have 7's stuff.
We end up with another thread which goes on for pages and pages between complains about local, defence fleets, inability to just go next door, people who aren't playing the game but are playing the meta, lots of bickering and in the end nothing gets solved. CCP wont remove cloaking because it would mess with waaay too many things and it creates content (which is a good thing) by removing content (which is a bad thing) but they can't really think of any way to do it without a complete overhaul of the local and scanning systems.
Now that I've had this entire thread's conversation, can we just let it die? Please?
Murderers of Negotiable Motivations
=]|[=
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Marek Kanenald
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
16
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Posted - 2017.06.11 19:24:51 -
[11] - Quote
It isn't even about afk cloakers in the place. |
Dracvlad
Tactically Challenged Tactical Supremacy
3218
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Posted - 2017.06.11 20:03:45 -
[12] - Quote
Marek Kanenald wrote:It isn't even about afk cloakers in the place.
It is because you don't want to get into something small that warps fast and work with others, so instead you call for a change that just makes it so easy to hunt it is laughable. If you want easy kills like this go play a FPS.
People have to hunt in this game catching the inattentive and those they have conditioned to make a mistake. They have made it easier and easier to catch people with interceptors that warp very fast and ships that do not show up on D-scan, and now you want a 30 second delay, pathetic....
When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.
Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
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ISD Stall
ISD STAR
35
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Posted - 2017.06.11 20:17:08 -
[13] - Quote
Quote:3. Ranting is prohibited.
A rant is a post that is often filled with angry and counterproductive comments. A free exchange of ideas is essential to building a strong sense of community and is helpful in development of the game and community. Rants are disruptive, and incite flaming and trolling. Please post your thoughts in a concise and clear manner while avoiding going off on rambling tangents.
8. Use of profanity is prohibited.
The use of profanity is prohibited on the EVE Online forums. This includes the partial masking of letters using numbers or alternate symbols, and any attempts at bypassing the profanity filter.
23. Post constructively.
Negative feedback can be very useful to further improve EVE Online provided that it is presented in a civil and factual manner. All users are encouraged to honestly express their feelings regarding EVE Online and how it can be improved. Posts that are non-constructive, insulting or in breach of the rules will be deleted regardless of how valid the ideas behind them may be. Users are also reminded that posting with a lack of content also constitutes non-constructive posting.
I have removed the post breaking these rules, and the subsequent posts that quote it.
ISD Stall
Support Training and Resources (STAR)
Community Communications Liaison (CCL)
Interstellar Services Department.
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Max Deveron
Deveron Shipyards and Technology
386
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Posted - 2017.06.11 21:10:13 -
[14] - Quote
ISD Stall wrote:Quote:3. Ranting is prohibited.
A rant is a post that is often filled with angry and counterproductive comments. A free exchange of ideas is essential to building a strong sense of community and is helpful in development of the game and community. Rants are disruptive, and incite flaming and trolling. Please post your thoughts in a concise and clear manner while avoiding going off on rambling tangents.
8. Use of profanity is prohibited.
The use of profanity is prohibited on the EVE Online forums. This includes the partial masking of letters using numbers or alternate symbols, and any attempts at bypassing the profanity filter.
23. Post constructively.
Negative feedback can be very useful to further improve EVE Online provided that it is presented in a civil and factual manner. All users are encouraged to honestly express their feelings regarding EVE Online and how it can be improved. Posts that are non-constructive, insulting or in breach of the rules will be deleted regardless of how valid the ideas behind them may be. Users are also reminded that posting with a lack of content also constitutes non-constructive posting. I have removed the post breaking these rules, and the subsequent posts that quote it.
ok sure Stall, how about locking this thread according to the sticky above rules since we all know what this really about. And no, I was not ranting.
Seriously because the same argument over the past 2 weeks in that sticky thread about delay for local to counter AFK cloaking or not has been going on in that thread. I wanted the OP to use his main from that argument instead of making a new thread. So I will leave this here as well as report this this thread for redundancy. |
Ragnar Danskjold
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
6
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Posted - 2017.06.11 21:33:52 -
[15] - Quote
Marek Kanenald wrote:We all know that local chat is an almost infallible source of intel and has a huge impact on the game.
I do not think removing local is a realistic goal and the consequences of doing so would be huge, however I do think the game would benefit from a reduction in power of local intel.
I propose adding a delay, 15-30 seconds or so to the time it takes to appear on local after entering a system.
No local needs to be removed entirely everywhere. The intel it provides makes asymmetric warfare against larger entities basically impossible. This is why there is so little fighting in Null. This is just as much a problem in High Sec as it is in null, when it comes to massive wardec alliances picking on carebears. Wormholes have demonstrated that it is quite possible to play the game without local. D-scan is a powerful tool in itself. There should be no mechanic that gives away a players location for free like local does. |
Max Deveron
Deveron Shipyards and Technology
386
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Posted - 2017.06.11 21:51:06 -
[16] - Quote
Ragnar Danskjold wrote:Marek Kanenald wrote:We all know that local chat is an almost infallible source of intel and has a huge impact on the game.
I do not think removing local is a realistic goal and the consequences of doing so would be huge, however I do think the game would benefit from a reduction in power of local intel.
I propose adding a delay, 15-30 seconds or so to the time it takes to appear on local after entering a system.
No local needs to be removed entirely everywhere. The intel it provides makes asymmetric warfare against larger entities basically impossible. This is why there is so little fighting in Null. This is just as much a problem in High Sec as it is in null, when it comes to massive wardec alliances picking on carebears. Wormholes have demonstrated that it is quite possible to play the game without local. D-scan is a powerful tool in itself. There should be no mechanic that gives away a players location for free like local does.
LOL wut???? Local provides free combat probes? when did that happen??
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Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
4014
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Posted - 2017.06.11 22:10:19 -
[17] - Quote
Just remove local, & default everyone into constellation instead. It's already delayed and also not precise. It also means that markets create a bit of noise & sprawl near them, which while annoying with the spam bots in Jita would be a good thing for the more regional market hubs that aren't on the same scale. |
Ragnar Danskjold
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
6
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Posted - 2017.06.11 22:16:15 -
[18] - Quote
Max Deveron wrote:Ragnar Danskjold wrote:Marek Kanenald wrote:We all know that local chat is an almost infallible source of intel and has a huge impact on the game.
I do not think removing local is a realistic goal and the consequences of doing so would be huge, however I do think the game would benefit from a reduction in power of local intel.
I propose adding a delay, 15-30 seconds or so to the time it takes to appear on local after entering a system.
No local needs to be removed entirely everywhere. The intel it provides makes asymmetric warfare against larger entities basically impossible. This is why there is so little fighting in Null. This is just as much a problem in High Sec as it is in null, when it comes to massive wardec alliances picking on carebears. Wormholes have demonstrated that it is quite possible to play the game without local. D-scan is a powerful tool in itself. There should be no mechanic that gives away a players location for free like local does. LOL wut???? Local provides free combat probes? when did that happen?? Combat probes and d-scan do not give player information, they give ship information. you don't know who you have probed or d-scanned. The only things in game which tell you a players location without being on grid or in station are local and locator agents. |
Max Deveron
Deveron Shipyards and Technology
386
|
Posted - 2017.06.11 22:18:38 -
[19] - Quote
Ragnar Danskjold wrote:Max Deveron wrote:Ragnar Danskjold wrote:Marek Kanenald wrote:We all know that local chat is an almost infallible source of intel and has a huge impact on the game.
I do not think removing local is a realistic goal and the consequences of doing so would be huge, however I do think the game would benefit from a reduction in power of local intel.
I propose adding a delay, 15-30 seconds or so to the time it takes to appear on local after entering a system.
No local needs to be removed entirely everywhere. The intel it provides makes asymmetric warfare against larger entities basically impossible. This is why there is so little fighting in Null. This is just as much a problem in High Sec as it is in null, when it comes to massive wardec alliances picking on carebears. Wormholes have demonstrated that it is quite possible to play the game without local. D-scan is a powerful tool in itself. There should be no mechanic that gives away a players location for free like local does. LOL wut???? Local provides free combat probes? when did that happen?? Combat probes and d-scan do not give player information, they give ship information. you don't know who you have probed or d-scanned. The only things in game which tell you a players location without being on grid or in station are local and locator agents.
oh Im sorry i misunderstood........ players location.....hmm if local did that then CCP would be guilty of doxing. |
Ragnar Danskjold
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
6
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Posted - 2017.06.11 22:27:25 -
[20] - Quote
Max Deveron wrote:Ragnar Danskjold wrote:Max Deveron wrote:Ragnar Danskjold wrote:Marek Kanenald wrote:We all know that local chat is an almost infallible source of intel and has a huge impact on the game.
I do not think removing local is a realistic goal and the consequences of doing so would be huge, however I do think the game would benefit from a reduction in power of local intel.
I propose adding a delay, 15-30 seconds or so to the time it takes to appear on local after entering a system.
No local needs to be removed entirely everywhere. The intel it provides makes asymmetric warfare against larger entities basically impossible. This is why there is so little fighting in Null. This is just as much a problem in High Sec as it is in null, when it comes to massive wardec alliances picking on carebears. Wormholes have demonstrated that it is quite possible to play the game without local. D-scan is a powerful tool in itself. There should be no mechanic that gives away a players location for free like local does. LOL wut???? Local provides free combat probes? when did that happen?? Combat probes and d-scan do not give player information, they give ship information. you don't know who you have probed or d-scanned. The only things in game which tell you a players location without being on grid or in station are local and locator agents. oh Im sorry i misunderstood........ players location.....hmm if local did that then CCP would be guilty of doxing. pretty evident to anyone that isn't stupid I'm referring to in game location. Troll harder please.
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Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
3950
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Posted - 2017.06.11 23:38:54 -
[21] - Quote
Hopefully will be addressed with oa's and cloaky camping.
It's gonna be a messy thread however, unless ccp pull some amazing voodoo mechanic out of no where.
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"
Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
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ISD Bubblemoon
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
83
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Posted - 2017.06.12 01:23:20 -
[22] - Quote
Quote:5. Trolling is prohibited.
Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive, and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote.
12. Discussion of forum moderation is prohibited.
The discussion of EVE Online forum moderation actions generally leads to flaming, trolling and baiting of our ISD CCL moderators. As such, this type of discussion is strictly prohibited under the forum rules. If you have questions regarding the actions of a moderator, please file a support ticket under the Community & Forums Category.
23. Post constructively.
Negative feedback can be very useful to further improve EVE Online provided that it is presented in a civil and factual manner. All users are encouraged to honestly express their feelings regarding EVE Online and how it can be improved. Posts that are non-constructive, insulting or in breach of the rules will be deleted regardless of how valid the ideas behind them may be. Users are also reminded that posting with a lack of content also constitutes non-constructive posting.
Removed posts and those quoting them for the above reason.
ISD Bubblemoon
Lieutenant
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
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Old Pervert
Perkone Caldari State
113
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Posted - 2017.06.12 17:31:28 -
[23] - Quote
I'd totally support the delay, so long as the person entering local cannot see said local at all for the same period of time.
Once you realize that now you either have to hang out in system for x number of seconds to see if there's even something to hunt, or launch probes in every system to take a peek, you'll be begging for local to go back to how it was.
Your average 2 hour roam just turned into a 4 hour roam. You'll still end up on intel channels, and you'll still get blobbed by major alliances. |
Scialt
Universal Sanitation Corporation
159
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Posted - 2017.06.12 17:59:55 -
[24] - Quote
In the end... I think this would hurt hunters more than the hunted.
Alliances with decent intel channels will be sharing the location of the reds when they do show up in local. So a ratter (who's not asleep) will know when the hunter pops up in a neighboring system. The plan would likely change so that the ratters just warp to safety when reds are next door until waiting until they show up in local.
While that might result in lost ratting time... it would be the prudent response to the change.
Meanwhile, the hunters would be stuck waiting 30 seconds to see if there's even anyone in system (or waste time actively hunting in an empty system). They'd only have an increased chance of catching ratters who were not paying attention to intel. The thing is... those ratters probably weren't paying much attention to local before... so you probably would have the same opportunity to catch them as you did before. |
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