|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Scialt
Universal Sanitation Corporation
194
|
Posted - 2017.07.20 17:22:11 -
[1] - Quote
I don't have an issue with Drone Aggro at the moment. But I do wish there were some indicator that would let me know if one of my drones were being targeted instead of waiting to see that damage is being applied.
Maybe something like the yellow box/red box we have with rats/players targeting/aggressing us but rather put the yellow/red box around the drone in the drone window that shows that my drone is being targeted by someone other than me or is being aggressed.
|
Scialt
Universal Sanitation Corporation
200
|
Posted - 2017.07.24 17:17:34 -
[2] - Quote
Donnachadh wrote:Daichi Yamato wrote:
[quote=Scialt]I don't have an issue with Drone Aggro at the moment. But I do wish there were some indicator that would let me know if one of my drones were being targeted instead of waiting to see that damage is being applied.
Maybe something like the yellow box/red box we have with rats/players targeting/aggressing us but rather put the yellow/red box around the drone in the drone window that shows that my drone is being targeted by someone other than me or is being aggressed.
People been asking for this since I started in 2010 so don't expect it to change anytime soon. On the other hand this is simply not needed all you have to do is ask yourself one simple question. Do I have drones outside my ship? Yes - they WILL HAVE agro so take all appropriate actions to help minimize damage or loss. No - then you do not need an indicator to tell you they are being targeted. There you go targeting question answered quickly, simply and no changes to the game are needed and this has the added benefit that you are taking preventative measure from the moment you launch your drones.
Actually, I don't get aggro on my drones unless I screw up (at least not on my drone ratting ships).
There are actual ways to control aggro... particularly when you realize that NPC rats absolutely HATE E-war when it comes to aggro. Sometimes though if you screw up the trigger for the next wave you do get aggro by accident. That's where a little extra warning that your drones are being targeted would be useful. Also useful for PvP of course. |
Scialt
Universal Sanitation Corporation
200
|
Posted - 2017.07.24 17:27:18 -
[3] - Quote
Mike Voidstar wrote:Daichi Yamato wrote:No it doesn't need 'reliable' tool. What you're asking for is a switch that when fit, says 'my drones are immune to npc's'
Not going to happen. You already have ai that prioritises ewar and remote reps, so a simple target painter is likely to get them to switch target. You can already remote repair drones and only certain types of rats go for drones frequently.
Using drones has huge advantages. The price of this power? They get shot at.
If drone aggro was so bad why is everyone using them? Ishtars, VNI's, Rattlers, gilas, domi's and even the op with a drone proteus...
OP just needs to learn how to use drones. Man, I love it when you overdose on the hyperbole. Having a reliable tool does not mean it's a one shot solution that requires no further action or sacrifice. I know people say the AI prioritizes Ewar and reps... but that has never been my experience in any kind of useful way. When the AI decides drones must die, it focuses on drones, period. You can pull them back in, but as soon as you put them out it switches right back, no matter what kind of ewar and repping you are doing... often focusing on the same drone they were shooting when you pulled them in. I use target painters all the time, as it's one of the few useful ewars in PvE and benefits both my ship and the drones, but at no point have I ever seen anything switch to me over it. Ewar in general needs a solid look for use in PvE anyway, in most cases it's entirely useless. But drones were originally designed and balanced without AI aggroing them except in special circumstances, and making the change to what we have now without addressing methods of dealing with it was irresponsible and lazy development.
Target painter is the wrong tool.
From what I can tell (and this is just my personal experience, not sure-fire knowledge of the mechanics), ewar targeted at one enemy does little to impact drone aggro (as you seem to have experienced with a target painter).
E-war and reps that target your drones do work. The problem with reps as the range... and the fact that it seems the drones need to be damaged for it to impact aggro. It works well when I use sentries (I generally do get aggro from enemies when I start repping my sentry drones that are damage... though often it's easier just to recall, relaunch and then rep)
Range becomes the main issue. But there is one e-war module that you can use to target your drones (as opposed to enemies) that has a fairly long range and a small capacitor use. Doesn't help you all that much... but since I've started using it I get almost no aggro on my drones (again... unless I screw up triggers).
|
Scialt
Universal Sanitation Corporation
202
|
Posted - 2017.07.25 16:26:46 -
[4] - Quote
Okay... I'll simply spell it out.
Remote sensor booster.
Work at long range (though they are less likely to "connect" at longer ranges). Don't cost much cap.
Warp in. Wait for ships to aggro your ship. Pop drones. Target a drone. Activate remote sensor booster. Send drones to wipe out ships.
You will NEVER get drone aggro as long as you don't trigger the next wave of a site before killing all the ships in the current wave.
So if you are running an anomaly where the next wave doesn't spawn until the current wave is gone... you will never have your drones get aggro. The remote sensor booster doesn't really help all that much... but you aren't running it for the boost, you're running it to control aggro.
Now... if you kill a trigger ship mid wave and more ships arrive, the newly arriving ships MAY target your drones because of the damage the drones are doing before being drawn in by the booster. In that scenario you do have to recall the drones and then pop them out again and apply the sensor booster again. But that's an avoidable scenario. |
Scialt
Universal Sanitation Corporation
202
|
Posted - 2017.07.25 16:33:36 -
[5] - Quote
Donnachadh wrote:Mike Voidstar wrote:You cannot let drones get far enough from your ship to be useful. How far do they need to go to be useful? And I am asking that as a serious question. I never let heavies or the Gecko go out more than 8k to 10k because the larger slower targets you would use them on are easy prey for the Garde from there out to about 30k to 35k. I never let mediums go out more than 12k to 15k because at that range out to 30k to 35k the Garde can deal with them, and even if they can't then simply ignore them and work on other targets until they get closer. I rarely let lights go out more than 20k to 25k because on an average anything that is 20k to 25k or more out is usually moving in a straight line directly towards you so they are easy prey for the Garde. Again those that the Garde cannot hit you simply ignore them until they are closer in. At ranges past 30k to 35k the Garde start to have issues because they trade range to gain DPS and tracking. However at those ranges the Curator, Bouncer and Warden all start to come into their own and can easily pick off even fast moving frigates because most of them are heading straight towards you so there are very few tracking problems. And the answer is no this is not how I employ drones because of the new agro mechanics, this is how I have ALWAYS employed my drones because it has proven to be the best way to employ them. It has the added benefit that I did not need to make changes to adapt to the new agro mechanics. Yes I still spend most of my time flying drones ships with the Ishtar, Gila, Domi and Rattle getting the vast majority of that time. I do fly the Tristan a lot when running lower level missions etc with new players although I occasionally fly a Worm or Astero instead.
Tactics with sentry drones are very different than ships that are not sentry focused. It comes down to being stationary vs being in motion.
If I run a speed tanked ishtar or VNI... sentries aren't an option. My ship is orbiting something (usually a MTU) at high speed, the drones need to be able to operate within my orbit radius effectively. Drone aggro was a problem for me when I came back (didn't really exist when I left eve)... until I found the counter that kept aggo away. My heavies (with enough tracking to kill frigates) were getting targeted constantly and were slow enough that sometimes they'd get popped because my orbit had taken me 40-60km away from the target.
But... the remote sensor booster kept aggro on my ship. Completely fixed the issue. It just took me some experimentation with various e-war modules to find one that worked with my cap (so it can be perma-run) and effectively drew aggro.
|
Scialt
Universal Sanitation Corporation
202
|
Posted - 2017.07.26 13:14:52 -
[6] - Quote
Li Soikutsu wrote:Daichi Yamato wrote:Have people forgotten that the op is using a proteus? He can get as close as he wants and tank just fine. Yes I am using a Proteus. However I don't think most people reallise how bad drone aggro is in DED sites. Tommorrow If I'll find the time I will try to record the insane amount of aggression drones get in not anomalies but DED sites. according to some I should keep my heavys within 8km then drones are by far the worst weapon system.... There for i seriously doubt that CCP planned for drones to be used like that. I mean why get all these drone speed bonuses etc if they should be like right next to your ship what's the point.... Anyways incoming recording of DED site drone aggression ASAP. Also thanks for keeping the thread civil o/
It may be different for me in a Rattlesnake than a proteus is... but I've never had too much of a problem (even with not using any e-war for aggro control). Now that may be because the missiles from the snake help keep aggro a bit and my "heavy" drone system is a gecko rather than heavy drones... and with the 275% role bonus to drone HP the gecko is pretty darn tanky. I pretty much send out lights to kill frigates and destroyers (which don't get aggro from anything other than frigs and destroyers), then launch the gecko and tear through everything while my cruise missiles smash the larger ships who are further away.
I sometimes lose a light drone and once every 5-10 runs I may have to pull back my Gecko for a bit due to a worry about damage... but nothing even remotely like others describe. I'm mainly running 6/10 and 8/10... I hadn't been running sites all that long when CCP nerfed the escalation percentages from anoms into the ground (haven't gotten one in ages... probably 100-150 anom's run with no luck)
I generally run anoms in VNI/ishtar fits which use a remote sensor booster to control aggro. When I ran without one my drones would get targeted constantly. Since switching to use one I only get drone aggro if I trigger the next wave of an anomaly without clearing the current wave. If I trigger the wave properly, my drones sit until the rats aggro me (due to the remote sensor booster), then they attack and I never get drone aggro as long as the booster is running. |
Scialt
Universal Sanitation Corporation
203
|
Posted - 2017.07.27 15:00:13 -
[7] - Quote
Mike Voidstar wrote:Blasters easily go to 20k on a Battleship. With some longer range ammo you can get it out quite a bit further.
I didn't say they should not be shot at. I said their useful operational range should be in that area.
According to you their useful operational range is about 25km on the fastest variety, and at that I'm sure that those less god-like than you will be losing them consistently.
Drones aren't ammo. I can't load up 5000 of them for next to nothing and just blow them out into space. They need to be survivable in their intended useful envelope. That envelope should not be limited to 1/3 of their unaugmented range.
That means improving their survivability in some fashion, either by being able to handle the agro issues in some fashion, or improving it in other ways. The AI change was a straight up heavy nerf to drones, which were balanced just fine before the change. If they wanted to kill the AFK part I'm 100% behind that, but they should not have made the change without compensating the nerf with something that makes up for the usefulness that was lost.
I feel like you aren't reading what people are telling you in this thread.
Fit a remote sensor booster (takes up a mid slot). Turn it on (targeting a drone) after you get aggressed by the site. Make sure you don't trigger the next wave until the current wave is done (or be ready to recall the drones if you can't avoid it). In my experience this will keep your drones from becoming targeted. |
|
|
|