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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 7 post(s) |
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CCP kieron
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Posted - 2007.05.26 18:17:00 -
[1]
In his Revelations 2 features blog, Oveur mentioned some changes to Player Owned Structure that are slated for deployment, but he did not go into a wealth of detail.
TomB is providing some of that detail. In his new blog, he explains the 'Starbase Revamp', elements of which are already on Singularity for preview and testing. Want to know more? Check out In Da Starbase - A Warfare Revamp.
kieron Community Manager, EVE Online, CCP Games Email/Netfang Look Ma, I'm in a Dev thread! Oh wait... |
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Verone
Gallente Veto Corp
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Posted - 2007.05.26 18:20:00 -
[2]
\o/ <3 Teh Kie
>>> THE BEAUTY OF NEW EDEN <<<
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Rhaegor Stormborn
Sturmgrenadier Inc R i s e
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Posted - 2007.05.26 18:23:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Rhaegor Stormborn on 26/05/2007 18:24:26 How exactly is it possible to balance the POS guns so they they do not insta-pop battleship size targets and below yet still work effectively against capital ships? The huge amount of hit points on the guns and other offensive structures will take forever in a gang of assault frigs, so I am assuming we will be at least able to use battleships to attack these structures, and well, battleships don't move fast and are not hard to track and lock really.
Can you give more details on exactly how this is going to work?
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R0ot
InNova Tech Inc Xelas Alliance
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Posted - 2007.05.26 18:25:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Rhaegor Stormborn How exactly can a small gang of small ships attack POS guns when they get insta popped by said guns as soon as they drop out of warp?
It takes a few seconds to lock me thinks. ------------------------------------------------------------------
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CCP TomB
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Posted - 2007.05.26 18:30:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Rhaegor Stormborn Edited by: Rhaegor Stormborn on 26/05/2007 18:24:26 How exactly is it possible to balance the POS guns so they they do not insta-pop battleship size targets and below yet still work effectively against capital ships? The huge amount of hit points on the guns and other offensive structures will take forever in a gang of assault frigs, so I am assuming we will be at least able to use battleships to attack these structures, and well, battleships don't move fast and are not hard to track and lock really.
Can you give more details on exactly how this is going to work?
This can now be tested on our testing server, find your answers there.
TomB Lead Designer EVE Online . |
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CCP TomB
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Posted - 2007.05.26 18:35:00 -
[6]
Blog has been updated: all these changes are now live on our test server, but not complete, enjoy.
TomB Lead Designer EVE Online . |
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Dal Thrax
Caldari Multiverse Corporation The Core Collective
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Posted - 2007.05.26 18:53:00 -
[7]
Will structures outside of the forcefield be able to survive 2+ DDD blasts without going offline? I'm thinking some groups with multiple Titan's could use one or two the nuke the POS defenses and still have two in reserve to drive off any support fleet that might come. This is particularly important as I believe that hardeners on the POS our now outside the FF and that they don't boost the structures shields so, hit the thing with an EM DDD follow up with Explosive and bye bye guns.
Dal
Things I learned playing PnP RPGs:
1)Always assume that the players will bring the maximum available firepower against a objective.
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Gai Servos
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Posted - 2007.05.26 19:00:00 -
[8]
If these things bug, will you be able to fix them without joining a player corp?
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Evelgrivion
Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.05.26 19:11:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Evelgrivion on 26/05/2007 19:13:36
Originally by: Dal Thrax Will structures outside of the forcefield be able to survive 2+ DDD blasts without going offline? I'm thinking some groups with multiple Titan's could use one or two the nuke the POS defenses and still have two in reserve to drive off any support fleet that might come. This is particularly important as I believe that hardeners on the POS our now outside the FF and that they don't boost the structures shields so, hit the thing with an EM DDD follow up with Explosive and bye bye guns.
Dal
50 ISK says CCP hasn't decided what they're going to do to deal with the present "issues" with Titans yet
But on topic, good blog, TomB. I'm glad to see a POS tower spam limiter is in the works - otherwise, with these changes, nobody would be able to take any system
This isn't the signature you're looking for. |
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CCP TomB
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Posted - 2007.05.26 19:33:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Evelgrivion Edited by: Evelgrivion on 26/05/2007 19:13:36
Originally by: Dal Thrax Will structures outside of the forcefield be able to survive 2+ DDD blasts without going offline? I'm thinking some groups with multiple Titan's could use one or two the nuke the POS defenses and still have two in reserve to drive off any support fleet that might come. This is particularly important as I believe that hardeners on the POS our now outside the FF and that they don't boost the structures shields so, hit the thing with an EM DDD follow up with Explosive and bye bye guns.
Dal
50 ISK says CCP hasn't decided what they're going to do to deal with the present "issues" with Titans yet
But on topic, good blog, TomB. I'm glad to see a POS tower spam limiter is in the works - otherwise, with these changes, nobody would be able to take any system
50.01 ISK says that CCP doesn't see it as an issue that it will take titans 6x DoomsDay activations to take out a small gun.
TomB Lead Designer EVE Online . |
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Bartholomeus Crane
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Posted - 2007.05.26 20:08:00 -
[11]
Just wondering, will I be able to sit inside the POS shield, remote repairing those small guns? That would get them 'capacitated' real quickly, making a 'raid' rather, well, pointless ... you'd have to be there, incapacitating those guns all the time while the sieging is going on (which give small ships something to do, but might not be the point).
I don't have access to POS on Sissi, so I can't test this for myself right now ... --
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Lumy
Eve University
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Posted - 2007.05.26 20:26:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Lumy on 26/05/2007 20:32:43
Originally by: Bartholomeus Crane Just wondering, will I be able to sit inside the POS shield, remote repairing those small guns? That would get them 'capacitated' real quickly, making a 'raid' rather, well, pointless ... you'd have to be there, incapacitating those guns all the time while the sieging is going on (which give small ships something to do, but might not be the point).
I don't have access to POS on Sissi, so I can't test this for myself right now ...
IIRC, guns willl get 'recapacitated' after they get up the 50% of structure. So if the attackers can keep them bellow 50% (maybe only with the fraction of their fleet), the gun is out of concerns.
If you give me some time, I'll try to find the thread.
EDIT: Here it is. - It's 100% structure, 100% armor and 50% shields.
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Stormers Girlfriend
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Posted - 2007.05.26 20:31:00 -
[13]
Originally by: CCP TomB
Originally by: Evelgrivion Edited by: Evelgrivion on 26/05/2007 19:13:36
Originally by: Dal Thrax Will structures outside of the forcefield be able to survive 2+ DDD blasts without going offline? I'm thinking some groups with multiple Titan's could use one or two the nuke the POS defenses and still have two in reserve to drive off any support fleet that might come. This is particularly important as I believe that hardeners on the POS our now outside the FF and that they don't boost the structures shields so, hit the thing with an EM DDD follow up with Explosive and bye bye guns.
Dal
50 ISK says CCP hasn't decided what they're going to do to deal with the present "issues" with Titans yet
But on topic, good blog, TomB. I'm glad to see a POS tower spam limiter is in the works - otherwise, with these changes, nobody would be able to take any system
50.01 ISK says that CCP doesn't see it as an issue that it will take titans 6x DoomsDay activations to take out a small gun.
Pwned. Nice job.
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Sarf
Asgard Industries Safe And Fun Environment
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Posted - 2007.05.26 20:33:00 -
[14]
Originally by: CCP TomB
50.01 ISK says that CCP doesn't see it as an issue that it will take titans 6x DoomsDay activations to take out a small gun.
From what i have read a gun goes off line as soon as 0.1% of the hull is damaged.
Correct me if i am wrong, but don't some weapons punch through armor and shields and cause hull damage. i AM sure i have killed npc structures when i destroyed there hull but they still had armor left. Does this mean if i get lucky and do a little bit of hull damage before taking down the shields and armor that it will off line?
Also you said 6+DD to take down a small tower, but how many dd until the gun isn't shooting back?
If a small fleet of cruisers and battleships can disable the guns, then what is stoppin g a dread from puling up and disabling all the guns and moving on. it seems like if a small fleet can disable guns then a dread will do it faster and cheaper than anything else.
I think it will also mean that unless the guns are able to do real damage to a dread they are going to saluter a BS or BC trying to disable them. But if the guns are balanced against smaller ships they aren't going to be a real threat to a dread fleet.
- Sarf CEO, Director of Freighter construction. Miner of small balls of dirt. |
Razor Jaxx
Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2007.05.26 20:57:00 -
[15]
This is great news. The idea that small ships are able to neutralize a POS's firepower, but it takes capitals to actually destroy it is a very good one.
I assume fine-tuning will take a little work to normalize damage according to ship size so that all ship classes actually have a shot at survival (though not guaranteed) when involved in POS warfare.
Cheers.
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Xeliya
Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.05.26 20:57:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Xeliya on 26/05/2007 20:59:00
I don't see how this will make POS warfare fun . . . Only thing that will change that will make it fun is if you can only have 1 tower to claim sov (have it marked too) and you cant put more then maybe 8 hardeners on the POS.
The reason it sucks now is because people feel the need to spam 20+ large Minmatar towers with 14-20 hardeners (i.e. what D2 used their Titan for this war and it was done by 1 person). Then we need to get a blob of dreads (30-40) to kill them and it still takes 3-4 (30-40min) cycles to reinforce.
If people had to defend POS's then it would be fun, this will change nothing.
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ICoraxI
Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.05.26 21:04:00 -
[17]
Edited by: ICoraxI on 26/05/2007 21:07:11 I can't see those changes effecting too much on POS warfare. You still need dreads to take out that tower, POS spamming works and killing POS is still as boring as it was before. For me those changes seems only as minor adjusting when we need major changes to POS warfare. What reason you have for killing those guns with smaller ships when you still need dreads to kill the tower and if those guns are not any danger for dreads?
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Bartholomeus Crane
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Posted - 2007.05.26 21:05:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Lumy Edited by: Lumy on 26/05/2007 20:32:43
Originally by: Bartholomeus Crane Just wondering, will I be able to sit inside the POS shield, remote repairing those small guns? That would get them 'capacitated' real quickly, making a 'raid' rather, well, pointless ... you'd have to be there, incapacitating those guns all the time while the sieging is going on (which give small ships something to do, but might not be the point).
I don't have access to POS on Sissi, so I can't test this for myself right now ...
IIRC, guns willl get 'recapacitated' after they get up the 50% of structure. So if the attackers can keep them bellow 50% (maybe only with the fraction of their fleet), the gun is out of concerns.
If you give me some time, I'll try to find the thread.
EDIT: Here it is. - It's 100% structure, 100% armor and 50% shields.
That's OK, but if I read the blog correctly, the structure will be increased a lot, and if the POS gun is 0.1% in structure it will be incapacitated.
Now, if I sit inside the POS shield with my remote hull repper and repair that 0.1& structure, the POS gun is now 'recapacitated' and starts blasting those cruisers and BC/BS again.
Throw in a remote armour and shield repper and the fun can begin.
Sure, it's a use for those logistics ships and all, but wasn't the point of all of this to make 'raids' worth while?
Pure theoretical I admit, but I wondering if this will actually work? --
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Bozse
Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.05.26 21:06:00 -
[19]
One: the maximum number a dreadnought can target is reduced to two - this is to prevent avoiding the long locking time of smaller sentries by locking 10 at a time.
That's one way to make laggy capital vs capital combat even more frustrating then it allready is, not to mention trying to pick of scrambling support with your drones.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE is designed to be a dark and harsh world
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Razor Jaxx
Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2007.05.26 21:09:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Bartholomeus Crane
Originally by: Lumy Edited by: Lumy on 26/05/2007 20:32:43
Originally by: Bartholomeus Crane Just wondering, will I be able to sit inside the POS shield, remote repairing those small guns? That would get them 'capacitated' real quickly, making a 'raid' rather, well, pointless ... you'd have to be there, incapacitating those guns all the time while the sieging is going on (which give small ships something to do, but might not be the point).
I don't have access to POS on Sissi, so I can't test this for myself right now ...
IIRC, guns willl get 'recapacitated' after they get up the 50% of structure. So if the attackers can keep them bellow 50% (maybe only with the fraction of their fleet), the gun is out of concerns.
If you give me some time, I'll try to find the thread.
EDIT: Here it is. - It's 100% structure, 100% armor and 50% shields.
That's OK, but if I read the blog correctly, the structure will be increased a lot, and if the POS gun is 0.1% in structure it will be incapacitated.
Now, if I sit inside the POS shield with my remote hull repper and repair that 0.1& structure, the POS gun is now 'recapacitated' and starts blasting those cruisers and BC/BS again.
Throw in a remote armour and shield repper and the fun can begin.
Sure, it's a use for those logistics ships and all, but wasn't the point of all of this to make 'raids' worth while?
Pure theoretical I admit, but I wondering if this will actually work?
It might, if there was such a thing as remote hull reps
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Lumy
Eve University
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Posted - 2007.05.26 21:15:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Razor Jaxx It might, if there was such a thing as remote hull reps
Don't you ever read anything? Originally by: CCP Nozh # Defensive structures get reactivated once their shield reaches 50% (they need full structure/armor also, remote structure repairers are being made available)
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RCI DeXTeR
REUNI0N Red Alliance
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Posted - 2007.05.26 22:41:00 -
[22]
Edited by: RCI DeXTeR on 26/05/2007 22:41:12
Quote: the maximum number a dreadnought can target is reduced to two - this is to prevent avoiding the long locking time of smaller sentries by locking 10 at a time.
and what we must do in luggy system with ~600 local ? when lock of one target can be from 5 to 20 minutes?
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Bartholomeus Crane
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Posted - 2007.05.26 22:51:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Lumy
Originally by: Razor Jaxx It might, if there was such a thing as remote hull reps
Don't you ever read anything? Originally by: CCP Nozh # Defensive structures get reactivated once their shield reaches 50% (they need full structure/armor also, remote structure repairers are being made available)
Thank you Lumy. Ofcourse remote repairers have to be made available, otherwise it would not be possible to bring POS guns online without unanchoring them and repairing them in a hangar.
The point is, that if you can remote restore POS guns from within the POS shield, a few logistics ships could, theoretically, maintain fire through the POS guns. This would remove the viability of the 'raiding'. What's the point of raiding a POS if the guns can be brought up again quickly.
Risk-reward balance? --
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Kerfira
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Posted - 2007.05.26 23:21:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Kerfira on 26/05/2007 23:20:58 I see a lot of changes that make it even HARDER to kill POS, but absolutely nothing that makes POS spamming harder....
Don't you people at CCP realise that what makes POS warfare BORING is the ease with which one can just keep spamming POS without any serious effort????? I.e. instead of having to fight your enemy for control of a system, you bore them to death to control the system....
Implement something that makes POS spamming a non-working tactic, then worry about new features later!!!
Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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Razor Jaxx
Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2007.05.26 23:27:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Lumy
Originally by: Razor Jaxx It might, if there was such a thing as remote hull reps
Don't you ever read anything? Originally by: CCP Nozh # Defensive structures get reactivated once their shield reaches 50% (they need full structure/armor also, remote structure repairers are being made available)
Ah, mea culpa, I was reacting merely on info provided by the blog itself, and remote hull reps weren't mentioned.
I'm curious to see, then, if structures outside the shield will be repairable from inside the shield, and, if indeed possible, if the remote modules range will actually cope with the distance between the shield and the structures' location outside the shield.
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Bartholomeus Crane
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Posted - 2007.05.26 23:36:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Razor Jaxx
Originally by: Lumy
Originally by: Razor Jaxx It might, if there was such a thing as remote hull reps
Don't you ever read anything? Originally by: CCP Nozh # Defensive structures get reactivated once their shield reaches 50% (they need full structure/armor also, remote structure repairers are being made available)
Ah, mea culpa, I was reacting merely on info provided by the blog itself, and remote hull reps weren't mentioned.
I'm curious to see, then, if structures outside the shield will be repairable from inside the shield, and, if indeed possible, if the remote modules range will actually cope with the distance between the shield and the structures' location outside the shield.
Brilliant question! I'm interested in exactly the same thing! Wonder why ... --
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Hon Kovell
Gallente Intaki Peace
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Posted - 2007.05.27 00:01:00 -
[27]
Quote: Optimal & Fall Off: ranges will be adjusted for the starbase weapon arrays, or let's just say reduced - this is to support the idea of moving the structures outside the force field thus needing to cover less range. Reduced range will also support the smaller ships changes, as they won't get hammered as badly by small, close range, damage dealing structures on the other side of the field.
Structures outside the force field need to cover even greater ranges. Guns positioned right by the tower are a similar distance to attackers as they to the tower. Normally you position them further apart to minimise transversal of small ships orbiting the pos, of course. Move the guns outside the shield and they are now further away from the far side of the pos. You've made small ships attacking the guns safe but you've also removed the limited area in which short range guns were effective.
In the past Pulse/AC/Blasters were of little use due to the 90km limit on range. Attackers could simply sit outside that range. Now their range has dropped even further. They will only be of use for close range support of other weapons outside the shield. The lowered tracking reduces their effectiveness there as well. Patient attackers can simply use a lone inty to circle a gun cluster and wait for the ammo to run out. Attackers can also now safely sit next to the pos and use short range ammo. Short range, high damage guns won't reach them and long range, low damage guns won't scratch them. |
Cadiz
Caldari No Quarter. Vae Victis.
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Posted - 2007.05.27 00:16:00 -
[28]
So, do, uh, those silo size bonuses work & persist properly yet? And if not, are Amarr & Gallente towers going to get some other benefit that actually does something? ------ Director, No Quarter "There is no problem that cannot be solved by the judicious application of violence." |
Chronus26
Gallente Team Laser Explosion Molotov Coalition
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Posted - 2007.05.27 00:18:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Hon Kovell
Quote: Optimal & Fall Off: ranges will be adjusted for the starbase weapon arrays, or let's just say reduced - this is to support the idea of moving the structures outside the force field thus needing to cover less range. Reduced range will also support the smaller ships changes, as they won't get hammered as badly by small, close range, damage dealing structures on the other side of the field.
Structures outside the force field need to cover even greater ranges. Guns positioned right by the tower are a similar distance to attackers as they to the tower. Normally you position them further apart to minimise transversal of small ships orbiting the pos, of course. Move the guns outside the shield and they are now further away from the far side of the pos. You've made small ships attacking the guns safe but you've also removed the limited area in which short range guns were effective.
In the past Pulse/AC/Blasters were of little use due to the 90km limit on range. Attackers could simply sit outside that range. Now their range has dropped even further. They will only be of use for close range support of other weapons outside the shield. The lowered tracking reduces their effectiveness there as well. Patient attackers can simply use a lone inty to circle a gun cluster and wait for the ammo to run out. Attackers can also now safely sit next to the pos and use short range ammo. Short range, high damage guns won't reach them and long range, low damage guns won't scratch them.
Spread your weapons around the circumerance of the shield? Force the attacker to work on your terms by using Mobile Bubbles/Dicters to draw them into the range of your defences? Why on earth would you knowingly let your guns run out of ammo? You could just, you know, fill them up? Or kill the Inty yourself? -----
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50 Isk
Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.05.27 01:26:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Evelgrivion Edited by: Evelgrivion on 26/05/2007 19:13:36
Originally by: Dal Thrax Will structures outside of the forcefield be able to survive 2+ DDD blasts without going offline? I'm thinking some groups with multiple Titan's could use one or two the nuke the POS defenses and still have two in reserve to drive off any support fleet that might come. This is particularly important as I believe that hardeners on the POS our now outside the FF and that they don't boost the structures shields so, hit the thing with an EM DDD follow up with Explosive and bye bye guns.
Dal
50 ISK says CCP hasn't decided what they're going to do to deal with the present "issues" with Titans yet
But on topic, good blog, TomB. I'm glad to see a POS tower spam limiter is in the works - otherwise, with these changes, nobody would be able to take any system
I know it's off topic, but I never said anything of the sort!
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