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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 6 post(s) |
Fofalus
Slanik Corp
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Posted - 2007.05.27 22:14:00 -
[31]
Originally by: CCP kieron
Originally by: Fofalus Also the response to the deleted petition a separate issue or is just being buried with this one?
It is not possible for a GM or Developer to delete petitions. Those tools quite simply, do not exist. Claims of petitions being deleted are therefore utter fabrication and completely groundless.
I would beg to argue thats its impossible to delete a petition. Claiming tools do not exist when I can think of more than a handful of ways without even working for CCP. A gm could answer the petition and then close it without response. I am sure the petitions are stored in a database somewhere that could be accessed and manipulated. Your entire stance on this is that DS1 is lying about everything and that we need to trust CCP when they have proven in the past that it is not possible to blindly trust CCP.
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Slickoo
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Posted - 2007.05.27 22:15:00 -
[32]
Originally by: CCP Arkanon
UPDATE: For further clarification, the petition (Petition #631627) which prompted CCP Sharkbait to join the corporation was created on the 6th of May. Note that our policies prohibit us from releasing details of the petition, as well as who filed it. After GMs were unable to fix the issue, an email was sent out asking for developer help. CCP Sharkbait reported the matter as resolved the same day, on the 9th of May.
CCP Arkanon
I know I am new to the game and out of boredom I have been reading this issue so bare with me.
The best I can figure is the incident in question happened yesterday(25th or 26th) but the petition was issued on the 6th. From what I have been reading the time that his happened was not a good one for some battle was going on. Why would it take that long to address a petition and why was this time chosen?
I am new and may not understand, but this seems a little fishy to me. If this is typical timming then it makes more sense to me.
Thanks,
-Slickoo
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Merc998
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Posted - 2007.05.27 22:22:00 -
[33]
Quote: It is not possible for a GM or Developer to delete petitions. Those tools quite simply, do not exist. Claims of petitions being deleted are therefore utter fabrication and completely groundless.
So are you saying that the CEO of DS1 is lying when he said he petitioned this and the petition disappeared
*snip* Don't discuss moderation and don't troll -Eldo ([email protected])
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Kyle Hammer
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Posted - 2007.05.27 22:23:00 -
[34]
Then they just disappear in database cleanups?
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Ben Derindar
Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2007.05.27 22:24:00 -
[35]
Excellent news.
/Ben
How to fix Eve |
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CCP kieron
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Posted - 2007.05.27 22:25:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Slickoo I know I am new to the game and out of boredom I have been reading this issue so bare with me.
The best I can figure is the incident in question happened yesterday(25th or 26th) but the petition was issued on the 6th. From what I have been reading the time that his happened was not a good one for some battle was going on. Why would it take that long to address a petition and why was this time chosen?
I am new and may not understand, but this seems a little fishy to me. If this is typical timming then it makes more sense to me.
The petition was submited on the 6th of May, Sharkbait acted on the 9th of May and the petition was successfuly closed a few days later. The question that you should be asking is why this became an issue with the corporation three weeks after their player submitted a petition.
kieron Community Manager, EVE Online, CCP Games Email/Netfang Look Ma, I'm in a Dev thread! Oh wait... |
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MotherMoon
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Posted - 2007.05.27 22:26:00 -
[37]
"I am forbidden to give out any details concerning you as a player, unless I am contacted by a law enforcement agent."
so if someone say, the ISD member wanted to be know and you wouldn't let him and he had a law enforcement member call CCP then you'd have to release names?
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Andrus Delai
Trinity Inc
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Posted - 2007.05.27 22:29:00 -
[38]
Originally by: CCP kieron
Originally by: Fofalus Also the response to the deleted petition a separate issue or is just being buried with this one?
It is not possible for a GM or Developer to delete petitions. Those tools quite simply, do not exist. Claims of petitions being deleted are therefore utter fabrication and completely groundless.
Or it could be an issue with terminology. Perhaps the petition was closed without comment? Have you tried to talk to DS1 before calling them liars?
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Kyle Hammer
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Posted - 2007.05.27 22:30:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Shobon Welp I'm glad to hear that Sharkbait does not appear to have committed any misconduct, and that it seems his brief joining of DS1 and granting of senior roles to himself was a necessary function of his job.
Why couldn't the necessary info be requested/obtained without granting themselves access the titles. If they truly needed access to said info the CEO should have wanted to give it to them and would have given it to them with out the appearance of inpropriety. I think the big thing CCP is missing is it is not wether or not there has been inappropriate actions here but the the appearance that there has been. One of the portions of the EULA is that it is a two way agreement.
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Penny Golding
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Posted - 2007.05.27 22:30:00 -
[40]
The basic principle of the capitalist economy and society is "caveat emptor", or "let the buyer beware".
Given that we are buying something from CCP, it would be against the most basic principle of capitalist consumer activism for us to just blindly trust them, or indeed to trust them at all.
This is not to say that the folks at CCP are dishonest, only that we have no way to know, and for our own protection, we must assume they are.
Certainly there exists adequate precedent within the industry for game companies dealing with their customers in a less-than-completely-forthright manner.
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Blight1
Caldari The Clearwater Society Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.05.27 22:34:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Blight1 on 27/05/2007 22:32:39 meh
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Kalestra Cable
Caldari Faust Industries
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Posted - 2007.05.27 22:35:00 -
[42]
Originally by: CCP kieron
Originally by: Fofalus Also the response to the deleted petition a separate issue or is just being buried with this one?
It is not possible for a GM or Developer to delete petitions. Those tools quite simply, do not exist. Claims of petitions being deleted are therefore utter fabrication and completely groundless.
Erm.
I'm not saying anyone did delete a petition and can't imagine why anyone would bother to be honest but what tools do you think a developer would require to delete a petition??
You guys run a MSSQL backend and it's not exactly hard to write a query to remove anything you like from the database.
With any level of access to the underlying database given Microsoft's own internal sloppy stored procedures and bad coding practices it's not hard to gain full access to do whatever you want in the any SQL DB.
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Popsikle
Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance
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Posted - 2007.05.27 22:37:00 -
[43]
Im pretty sure the goons owe sharkbait an apology for attempting to slander his name, Kieron and Ark an apology for making them work thru the night on a holiday weekend, and the general eve forum population for shutting down the forums when it wasn't needed.
__________________________________________
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Andrus Delai
Trinity Inc
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Posted - 2007.05.27 22:38:00 -
[44]
Originally by: CCP kieron
Originally by: Slickoo I know I am new to the game and out of boredom I have been reading this issue so bare with me.
The best I can figure is the incident in question happened yesterday(25th or 26th) but the petition was issued on the 6th. From what I have been reading the time that his happened was not a good one for some battle was going on. Why would it take that long to address a petition and why was this time chosen?
I am new and may not understand, but this seems a little fishy to me. If this is typical timming then it makes more sense to me.
The petition was submited on the 6th of May, Sharkbait acted on the 9th of May and the petition was successfuly closed a few days later. The question that you should be asking is why this became an issue with the corporation three weeks after their player submitted a petition.
They said they filed a petition to find out what happened. For those of us without MSN access, petitions take a while.
And it was only slightly more than two weeks from incident to them completely losing their cool about this. It's not an unreasonable time frame if they were attempting to conact CCP through other avenues as they claim.
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Merc998
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Posted - 2007.05.27 22:38:00 -
[45]
Kieron.
If, as I think we can all agree Sharkbait was doing legitmate business within DS1.
Given the current mistrust of CCP and the very high concerns over CCP employees relationships with BoB since the T20 affair, Do you not agree it was crass stupidity of the highest order for a CCP employee to appoint himself a director of a corps currently at war with BoB, without letting the CEO of that corps what was happening.
Even more do you agree it was bordering on negligent to "LOSE" the petition asking why the DEV had appointed himself director(wether deleted or closed without a response) when it must have been apparent to even the biggest dullard that doing so would create this situation.
In retrospect can we agree that this was handled with a degree of care that we wouldnt expect from a 5 year old much less professionals running a highly succesful MMPORG
*snip* Don't discuss moderation and don't troll -Eldo ([email protected])
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Slickoo
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Posted - 2007.05.27 22:40:00 -
[46]
Originally by: CCP kieron The petition was submited on the 6th of May, Sharkbait acted on the 9th of May and the petition was successfuly closed a few days later. The question that you should be asking is why this became an issue with the corporation three weeks after their player submitted a petition.
Having more information helps.
You are right, if this issue happened 3 weeks ago, I do not understand why people are upset now. Why wait 3 weeks? Now this does not pass my sniff test.
Thanks for the added info.
-Slickoo
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LymeM
Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.05.27 22:41:00 -
[47]
Originally by: CCP kieron
The petition was submited on the 6th of May, Sharkbait acted on the 9th of May and the petition was successfuly closed a few days later. The question that you should be asking is why this became an issue with the corporation three weeks after their player submitted a petition.
The community would appreciate a substantiation of this statement by the posting of the petition in question, with who petitioned it.
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Overdone
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Posted - 2007.05.27 22:42:00 -
[48]
Originally by: CCP kieron
Originally by: Fofalus Also the response to the deleted petition a separate issue or is just being buried with this one?
It is not possible for a GM or Developer to delete petitions. Those tools quite simply, do not exist. Claims of petitions being deleted are therefore utter fabrication and completely groundless.
According to the Ceo of Darkstar his own queries were never answered. This is a simple answer, was he given this answer? The petitions would of course need to be seperated by which petition we're talking about here; on the one hand we have one about POS bugs, apparentley delt with, and the follow up about why a CCP employee was required to become a Director to fix it, apparently unanswered.
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Ciras Shelby
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Posted - 2007.05.27 22:43:00 -
[49]
Originally by: CCP kieron The petition was submited on the 6th of May, Sharkbait acted on the 9th of May and the petition was successfuly closed a few days later. The question that you should be asking is why this became an issue with the corporation three weeks after their player submitted a petition.
CCP is suggesting the questions that should be asked instead of answering those posed to them?
The answer to the question "Was this ethical?" should not begin with another question "How long did they wait to report this?".
Maybe they were awaiting your response, which typically takes forever anyhow.
My personal opinion is your reputation is now beyond repair. For many of us we are not waiting to see IF unethical things happened, we just wait in amusement to see how you handle it.
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Kaplanelle
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.05.27 22:43:00 -
[50]
Originally by: CCP kieron The question that you should be asking is why this became an issue with the corporation three weeks after their player submitted a petition.
Whoa, back up there pal. That's not the tone you take with paying customers, ever. People can have honest misunderstandings, and CCP shouldn't be alledging anything different unless they have absolute proof otherwise.
This was a customer service failure on CCPs part by not having enough customer contact. Why you're takings such a customer hostile stance makes me wonder what your employer is thinking allowing the community manager take up that kind of attitude.
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Frug
Zenithal Harvest
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Posted - 2007.05.27 22:43:00 -
[51]
Originally by: CCP kieron It is not possible for a GM or Developer to delete petitions. Those tools quite simply, do not exist. Claims of petitions being deleted are therefore utter fabrication and completely groundless.
That does not surprise me very much. There goes their credibility entirely. The entire DS1 involvement in all of this is down the drain right now.
I would not be surprised if a number of CCP employees are actually mad about this. What a stupid, pointless mess to start. Sometimes I like the goons, but this is shameful.
- - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Hey, my marbles |
Cyan Nuevo
The Blackguard Wolves
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Posted - 2007.05.27 22:49:00 -
[52]
The community very well may, but it's pointless asking since you know they will never do that.
Maybe they could just confirm that it was a DS1 member though?
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Kaplanelle
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.05.27 22:52:00 -
[53]
Originally by: CaffCeo
Originally by: Kaplanelle
Originally by: CCP kieron The question that you should be asking is why this became an issue with the corporation three weeks after their player submitted a petition.
Whoa, back up there pal. That's not the tone you take with paying customers, ever. People can have honest misunderstandings, and CCP shouldn't be alledging anything different unless they have absolute proof otherwise.
This was a customer service failure on CCPs part by not having enough customer contact. Why you're takings such a customer hostile stance makes me wonder what your employer is thinking allowing the community manager take up that kind of attitude.
HEY POT. MEET THE KETTLE.
We can only see part of the picture compared to them, we don't have read access to the databases. It's impossible standard for anyone on the outside to have--one that would have allowed t20s shennanigans to go unchecked and still have a few illegal BPOs in circulation.
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She Storm
Minmatar The Taining corp Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2007.05.27 22:54:00 -
[54]
Quote: You are right, if this issue happened 3 weeks ago, I do not understand why people are upset now. Why wait 3 weeks? Now this does not pass my sniff test.
Ummm because 2 to 3 weeks is the standard time it usually takes to get an answer back on any other petition then a stuck petition... If you ever get a reply back at all.
Oh and if you file it under "stuck" and ccp feels it isn't a stuck issue you are told to file the other petition types.
As someone who only recently filed their first petitions I have found that sometimes you wait quite a while, and sometimes you never get an answer at all, not even a "No you're wrong about this issue" reply.
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LymeM
Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.05.27 22:56:00 -
[55]
Originally by: CCP kieron
Originally by: Fofalus Also the response to the deleted petition a separate issue or is just being buried with this one?
It is not possible for a GM or Developer to delete petitions. Those tools quite simply, do not exist. Claims of petitions being deleted are therefore utter fabrication and completely groundless.
You may want to consider opening a bug report to report the petition system miraculously loosing petitions.
Otherwise, you may want to consider not talking in absolutes when any sql developer knows that you do not need a tool to delete information from a database, a simply sql query window works just fine.
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Kramer Verone
Amarr TeamMX
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Posted - 2007.05.27 22:58:00 -
[56]
Arkanon, have you talked to the ceo of that corporation?
Why would you even hint that the corporation might be lying when it is highly likely that the reason they only mentioned the issue after that long is because no one in their right mind checks logs unless they notice assets missing?
Legit question.
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Gilbert Drillerson
DarkStar 1 GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.05.27 22:58:00 -
[57]
By talking to all our directors we have been unable to find anyone owning up to a petition from May 6. If it wouldnt be too much to ask, I would humbly ask that CCP makes a contact to our formal CEO character and reveal to him what the petition was about and who made it.
As it is right now, we have NO way of confirming this and no knowledge of any petition filed may 6. It may very well be a true story as we have almost 200 members, but given the amount of drama around this issue, I think we should follow through and get all the mystery revealed.
Gil CO-CEO Darkstar 1
Dont get mad - Get even |
Gurn
Minmatar Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2007.05.27 22:59:00 -
[58]
Originally by: CCP kieron While this issue may seem to be 'the most trivial' as one player stated, it was the first issue brought forward by the accusing player alliance and seemingly the root of their discontent.
I thought the root of discontent was that people believe that the devs are biased, that they spawn items, reward items via Roleplay events and fire reporters to the advantage of their "friends" on msn.
If there wasn't a belief of dev bias towards certain alliances then nobody would be surprised if a dev suddenly turns up in your corp one day, grants himself director access and then leaves.
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Ciras Shelby
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Posted - 2007.05.27 23:04:00 -
[59]
Originally by: CaffCeo
HEY POT. MEET THE KETTLE.
Flamebaiter.
The paying customers have a right to answers of obvious examples unethical relationships between devs and players of an MMO. Please stop attacking the paying customers who are upset over this situation - they have every right to be upset.
Even the tone of CCP in this thread is bullcrap. I see smokescreens and arrogance in my EVE future, which is why my account is not on renewal. Can you ever really trust these guys again? For me personally, the answer is no.
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Merc998
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Posted - 2007.05.27 23:04:00 -
[60]
Quote: If there wasn't a belief of dev bias towards certain alliances then nobody would be surprised if a dev suddenly turns up in your corp one day, grants himself director access and then leaves.
Too true, while I am happy to apologise to sharkbait for not trusting him over this issue, if he wants someone to blame I suggest he has a quiet word with T20 in the CCP playground at breaktime. I also suggest he learns some tact and communication skills when dealing with corporations that are at war with BoB as the level of mistrust runs deep amongst many players *snip* Don't discuss moderation and don't troll -Eldo ([email protected])
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