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met worst
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
3
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Posted - 2012.01.01 21:37:00 -
[1] - Quote
This is more an observation and a query regarding PI.
TL;DR : Lowsec is even deader than before due to POCO's. One less reason to bother with it.
The elaboration:-
As a player who has done lowsec PI for a long long time, the motivation to setup ninja POS's and float around lowsec gathering resources was both fun and interesting and on many occasions quite challenging (if not downright scarey). It made a modest profit and was almost a full-time Eve occupation in itself.
It required regular logins and made me invest in RL money to run my 5 accounts. There's simply not enough profit in PI to plex it all. And now, there's even less to be had due to POCO monopolies starting to rear their ugly heads.
So today I unanchored my last tower out of lowsec and closed up all my PI. The massive time, RL money and isk investment training 5 perfect PI chars with blockade runner skills is now wasted. The cost to do PI for personal towers and a small amount of manufacturing is on the verge of pointless.
Of course, the usual banter about go kill POCO's and install your own etc. will be bandied around and sure, I can join some alliance and do just that but that just reinforces my point about monopolisation of the game. I know what the "do this" solution is but I also know the reality - as do most players who do/did PI in lowsec.
IMO, it's a case of yet another nail-in-the-coffin for lowsec players who WANT lowsec, are prepared to RISK it in lowsec but have absolutely no incentive to be there unless they start a whole new alliance and spend 5 years building it into yet another monopoly.
I am seriously at a "wtf do I do now" moment after almost 4 years of trying it all.
Has anyone else struck the same sense of "where the **** is this game going" frustration? |
1-Up Mushroom
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1645
|
Posted - 2012.01.01 21:39:00 -
[2] - Quote
It's classic CCP 5 Senses In A Person... 4 Seasons In A Year... 3 Colors In A Stoplight... 2 Poles On The Earth... ONLY 1-UP MUSHROOM!!!-á If You Like My Sig, Like Me! |
Mentat Cthulhu
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
6
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Posted - 2012.01.01 21:54:00 -
[3] - Quote
I think it is fair change.
You could make very good money from PI and there was pretty much no risk especially doing it in low sec.
I wonder, did you have your poses in low sec? |
Cipher Jones
285
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Posted - 2012.01.01 22:01:00 -
[4] - Quote
TL;DR OP spelled blows wrong.
See what happens when fat neckbeards try to ride little ponies? The ponies die. |
Krixtal Icefluxor
Bison - Ammatar Thunder Thundering Herd
208
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Posted - 2012.01.01 22:02:00 -
[5] - Quote
Excellent Post
If you Bio me, you wil see that I even disbanded my Low sec PI Corp back in November.
Same situation. Same investment, but 4 toons.
Not worth it and WAY too expensive. Like getting my P1 Products out of Jail or something.
No RL industrialist or Business person would tolerate a 30% tax on ANYTHING, tobacco and booze excepting.
Yup, this was one absolutely Unnesessary Mechanic change and a BAD move by CCP.
Very true that Low Sec is officially IN IT'S COFFIN. Even PI is for Sh-- there now.
I'm not sure where things are heading either...............................but my ass has heading straight back to mission grinding and mining. Oh boy. OMG He Spent His Free-áAURUM ! God is simply-áthe very extraordinary power of the Universe to organize Itself as percieved. -á-á- Lee Smolin "Three Roads to Quantum Gravity" |
Krixtal Icefluxor
Bison - Ammatar Thunder Thundering Herd
208
|
Posted - 2012.01.01 22:03:00 -
[6] - Quote
Mentat Cthulhu wrote:I think it is fair change.
You could make very good money from PI and there was pretty much no risk especially doing it in low sec.
I wonder, did you have your poses in low sec?
Still does not explain the NEED or WANT for that change.............there WAS none.
Another CCP PipeDream (Trademark). OMG He Spent His Free-áAURUM ! God is simply-áthe very extraordinary power of the Universe to organize Itself as percieved. -á-á- Lee Smolin "Three Roads to Quantum Gravity" |
met worst
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
4
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Posted - 2012.01.01 22:09:00 -
[7] - Quote
Mentat Cthulhu wrote:I think it is fair change.
You could make very good money from PI and there was pretty much no risk especially doing it in low sec.
I wonder, did you have your poses in low sec? I used to setup "disposable" ninja POS's in lowsec out of a blockade runner, work an area for awhile and then move so as not to "attract attention". I had a cloaky Muninn providing escort support in case of rogue gate campers but generally moving around smartly made for fairly safe transitions.
Now many POCO's are taxed to infinity and in some cases the Interbus Offices have been destroyed and not replaced. At 100m+ a pop to replace and no way to defend them, had to take the loss and move on. Planetary launches are a total waste of time.
It's another case of most of the infrastructure ingame being owned by a very few and now lowsec has been made even less inviting. All for what? An FPS game on a completely different platform? Appeasement of nullsec alliances who think no-one else should be allowed to make a living.
Getting to the point it's nullsec or nothing and nothing is starting to look very attractive. |
Mentat Cthulhu
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
11
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Posted - 2012.01.01 22:10:00 -
[8] - Quote
WAS no NEED or WANT except DUST release APPROACHING and TOO many PEOPLE making TOO much ISK with TOO little RISK |
TuonelanOrja
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
155
|
Posted - 2012.01.01 22:13:00 -
[9] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Mentat Cthulhu wrote:I think it is fair change.
You could make very good money from PI and there was pretty much no risk especially doing it in low sec.
I wonder, did you have your poses in low sec? Still does not explain the NEED or WANT for that change.............there WAS none. Another CCP PipeDream (Trademark).
CCP just want get rid of paying customers.
what you think next will happen now |
met worst
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
9
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Posted - 2012.01.01 22:16:00 -
[10] - Quote
Mentat Cthulhu wrote:WAS no NEED or WANT except DUST release APPROACHING and TOO many PEOPLE making TOO much ISK with TOO little RISK I'm confused by this belief that there was too much isk to be made.
I ran an experiment maxing 5 chars to make Robotics only. The most I could make on *5* chars was 100m a day - if - the market prices held above 60k each. And the amount of clickwork to do that was stupid.
For mine, it can only be a Dust 514 motivation and I am simply not interested in FPS so where does that leave me. Back mining or missioning? Sucking it up in some nullsec alliance? It was my last vestige of "fun".
The question remains, is CCP prepared to lose me - an RL money player with 5 accounts - to pick up a twitch speed teenager with ADHD who will quit for something else within a few months? |
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Mentat Cthulhu
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
11
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Posted - 2012.01.01 22:20:00 -
[11] - Quote
Have you tried moving elsewhere? Or use different planets? I know where I live plasma planet were all snatched up quickly but nobody really bothered with the others unless they really need the stuff. |
Xearal
SOL Industries Black Thorne Alliance
217
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Posted - 2012.01.01 22:21:00 -
[12] - Quote
So.. howcome I'm still making 500M+ a month with my PI, and only need to check my planets every 4 days or so, and haul once a week?
Oh.. and ofcourse, ever consider making a deal with those 'monopolies'? I saw a certain big alliance setting up some POCO's somewhere, and though I had no interest in setting up PI in that system, I chatted with em and asked howmuch tax they would charge me if I set up on 'their' planets.
They were quite willing to cut me a profitable deal that while I'd still be paying them taxes ( and thus giving them free money :) ), I would still be making a good profit on my PI.
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met worst
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
9
|
Posted - 2012.01.01 22:25:00 -
[13] - Quote
Xearal wrote:So.. howcome I'm still making 500M+ a month with my PI, and only need to check my planets every 4 days or so, and haul once a week?
Oh.. and ofcourse, ever consider making a deal with those 'monopolies'? I saw a certain big alliance setting up some POCO's somewhere, and though I had no interest in setting up PI in that system, I chatted with em and asked howmuch tax they would charge me if I set up on 'their' planets.
They were quite willing to cut me a profitable deal that while I'd still be paying them taxes ( and thus giving them free money :) ), I would still be making a good profit on my PI.
500m a month. You're new here yeah? An Incursion runner or a mission runner can do that in a few days.
You seem to have also missed my point about the monopolisation of even lowsec now. You either have to suck it up or **** off. |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
95
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Posted - 2012.01.01 22:37:00 -
[14] - Quote
met worst wrote:Xearal wrote:So.. howcome I'm still making 500M+ a month with my PI, and only need to check my planets every 4 days or so, and haul once a week?
Oh.. and ofcourse, ever consider making a deal with those 'monopolies'? I saw a certain big alliance setting up some POCO's somewhere, and though I had no interest in setting up PI in that system, I chatted with em and asked howmuch tax they would charge me if I set up on 'their' planets.
They were quite willing to cut me a profitable deal that while I'd still be paying them taxes ( and thus giving them free money :) ), I would still be making a good profit on my PI.
500m a month. You're new here yeah? An Incursion runner or a mission runner can do that in a day or two. You seem to have also missed my point about the monopolisation of even lowsec now. You either have to suck it up or **** off.
You kill your argument comparing PI to incursions. Apples and oranges.
I'm making about 2.2bil net per month from PI. Don't like the monopolization of LS. Find a nice C1 for your small corp. Easy PI isk. |
SilentSkills
Back Breaker Battalion Back Breaker Brigade
80
|
Posted - 2012.01.01 22:41:00 -
[15] - Quote
Mentat Cthulhu wrote:I think it is fair change.
You could make very good money from PI and there was pretty much no risk especially doing it in low sec.
I wonder, did you have your poses in low sec?
you sir, are an idiot, lowsec may be dead, but its far more dangerous than bluefested,cynojammed,intel-ridden 0.0 |
Emiko Luan
Ekchuah's Shrine Comporium
23
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Posted - 2012.01.01 22:42:00 -
[16] - Quote
Join a corp that can defend your poco. WH space is viable for small groups if you find an out of the way wh to pos up. +welcome to my world+ http://venomzer0.deviantart.com |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4206
|
Posted - 2012.01.01 22:43:00 -
[17] - Quote
met worst wrote:500m a month. You're new here yeah? An Incursion runner or a mission runner can do that in a day or two. So? We're not talking about incursions here, but PI. So the point remains relevantGǪ
Quote:You seem to have also missed my point about the monopolisation of even lowsec now. You either have to suck it up or **** off. No, he addressed that quite specificallyGǪ
It seems you're creating a problem where there doesn't really have to be one. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
Mentat Cthulhu
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
11
|
Posted - 2012.01.01 22:46:00 -
[18] - Quote
SilentSkills wrote:Mentat Cthulhu wrote:I think it is fair change.
You could make very good money from PI and there was pretty much no risk especially doing it in low sec.
I wonder, did you have your poses in low sec? you sir, are an idiot, lowsec may be dead, but its far more dangerous than bluefested,cynojammed,intel-ridden 0.0 haha yepp maybe...except when you do stuff like run mission in unprobeable ship (which got nerfed) and farm PI in cloaky hauler (also got nerfed) |
met worst
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
9
|
Posted - 2012.01.01 22:53:00 -
[19] - Quote
Derath Ellecon wrote:met worst wrote:Xearal wrote:So.. howcome I'm still making 500M+ a month with my PI, and only need to check my planets every 4 days or so, and haul once a week?
Oh.. and ofcourse, ever consider making a deal with those 'monopolies'? I saw a certain big alliance setting up some POCO's somewhere, and though I had no interest in setting up PI in that system, I chatted with em and asked howmuch tax they would charge me if I set up on 'their' planets.
They were quite willing to cut me a profitable deal that while I'd still be paying them taxes ( and thus giving them free money :) ), I would still be making a good profit on my PI.
500m a month. You're new here yeah? An Incursion runner or a mission runner can do that in a day or two. You seem to have also missed my point about the monopolisation of even lowsec now. You either have to suck it up or **** off. You kill your argument comparing PI to incursions. Apples and oranges. I'm making about 2.2bil net per month from PI. Don't like the monopolization of LS. Find a nice C1 for your small corp. Easy PI isk. The comparison was to debunk the "too much isk in PI" argument.
And you ain't making 2.2b a month in lowsec unless you got 5 chars or more. As for WH - yes, that is an option and yes I've done it. I also made much more doing it in nullsec but now it's just more coinage to the barons leaving no motivation to even bother.
Regardless, I didn't do it solely for the money - I also did it for the kicks. Poking around systems in a cloaky scaring the life out of ratters, passing on "scaps on standby" intel and having a laugh while doing enough to fuel my POS's was my motivation.
But now, with some POCO's with variable tax rates, maxed tax or even locked out, it's a headfuck finding out who owns what and what they'll do for me and my little band of merry-men.
It's PI for christsake, not a Tech moon.
The question remains as to why CCP put the mockers on yet another lowsec profession? |
Lili Lu
96
|
Posted - 2012.01.01 22:55:00 -
[20] - Quote
There were lots of people predicting this in the deve blog thread. Made no difference, as with many changes CCP makes. The comments threads most of the time are an exercise in futility. It was very apparent that they wanted this for DUST. Hope they know what they're doing with that. In the meantime yeah, fewer people in lowsec. |
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met worst
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
9
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Posted - 2012.01.01 22:57:00 -
[21] - Quote
Tippia wrote:met worst wrote:500m a month. You're new here yeah? An Incursion runner or a mission runner can do that in a day or two. So? We're not talking about incursions here, but PI. So the point remains relevantGǪ Quote:You seem to have also missed my point about the monopolisation of even lowsec now. You either have to suck it up or **** off. No, he addressed that quite specificallyGǪ It seems you're creating a problem where there doesn't really have to be one. Do me a favour Tippia and **** off. I'm not getting into a pointless merry-go-round quote fest with you like you do with everyone else.
I didn't "create" any problem. I'm stating first-hand my experiences after YEARS of doing it and asking others if they have or do suffer from the same lack of motivation and why CCP made lowsec even less attractive than it was.
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met worst
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
9
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Posted - 2012.01.01 22:59:00 -
[22] - Quote
Emiko Luan wrote:Join a corp that can defend your poco. WH space is viable for small groups if you find an out of the way wh to pos up. Yes, yes. Of course. I s'pose someone had to say it. Might as well be you. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4206
|
Posted - 2012.01.01 23:05:00 -
[23] - Quote
met worst wrote:Do me a favour Tippia and **** off. How about, instead, you go and boil your head?
Quote:I'm not getting into a pointless merry-go-round quote fest with you like you do with everyone else. So you've run out of arguments before we've even begun? That's nice.
Quote:I didn't "create" any problem. Yes you did. You are the one who just concludes that lowsec PI is dead just because you don't want to deal with the realities of losec PI. You are the one who just gives up, when there are in fact plenty of solutions to your supposed problem. If you choose to, the difference in what you do can be reduced to almost zero compared to before the expansion, but you've chosen another route. That is your choice, and no-one's fault but your own.
Quote:I'm stating first-hand my experiences after YEARS of doing it Lol no. For a very simple reasonGǪ can you guess what it is? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
met worst
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
9
|
Posted - 2012.01.01 23:09:00 -
[24] - Quote
Tippia wrote:met worst wrote: I'm stating first-hand my experiences after YEARS of doing it
Lol no. For a very simple reasonGǪ can you guess what it is?
And it was highlighted especially to give you yet another paragraph to quote you dipshit. Now **** off ******. |
Wyke Mossari
Staner Industries
145
|
Posted - 2012.01.01 23:10:00 -
[25] - Quote
You might think people are being harsh but you choose to play a small aspect of the game and you've burnt yourself out.
Try something new from this: What to do in Eve. |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
95
|
Posted - 2012.01.01 23:13:00 -
[26] - Quote
met worst wrote:The comparison was to debunk the "too much isk in PI" argument.
And it is still a lousy argument. I net 2.2 bil a month in a WH (yes I have 3 toons doing PI, same account). I spend about 40min every 4 days managing all of the planets, so say 5 hours a month. Lets be generous and say I spend another 5 hours a month just hauling the PI to market. So 10 hours a month. or about 220mil/hr. Even if it took me twice as long, I'm still above the average 100mil/hr for HS incursions. And that doesn't include the downtime associated with incursions (fleet forming, flying to the incursion system etc).
met worst wrote:And you ain't making 2.2b a month in lowsec unless you got 5 chars or more. As for WH - yes, that is an option and yes I've done it. I also made much more doing it in nullsec but now it's just more coinage to the barons leaving no motivation to even bother.
Right, I said in a WH.
met worst wrote:Regardless, I didn't do it solely for the money - I also did it for the kicks. Poking around systems in a cloaky scaring the life out of ratters, passing on "scaps on standby" intel and having a laugh while doing enough to fuel my POS's was my motivation.
I have the same fun. My C1 WH has a LS static. I get to pop out in to new areas of LS every day. I can play there doing all kinds of fun, PVE or PVP.
That being said I'm still not a fan of the new POCO's either. But I'm adapting to them.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4206
|
Posted - 2012.01.01 23:13:00 -
[27] - Quote
met worst wrote:And it was highlighted especially to give you yet another paragraph to quote you dipshit. Now **** off ******. No. It was especially highlighted to demonstrate that maybe you don't quite have all your facts straightGǪ
You don't have years of experience of doing lowsec PI.
Oh, and abuse is a poor substitute for actual argumentsGǪ GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
met worst
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
9
|
Posted - 2012.01.01 23:22:00 -
[28] - Quote
Tippia wrote:met worst wrote:And it was highlighted especially to give you yet another paragraph to quote you dipshit. Now **** off ******. No. It was especially highlighted to demonstrate that maybe you don't quite have all your facts straightGǪ You don't have years of experience of doing lowsec PI. Oh, and abuse is a poor substitute for actual argumentsGǪ In all my time baiting you on the forums on many different chars you still haven't learned how to contribute to a post other than to disseminate, dissect and disrupt the flow. It is a very simple process to "preselect" which paragraphs you will paraphrase for your merry-go-round debates Tippia.
It's that sanctimonious self-belief that you yourself fall for. I'm convinced you have half of your responses pre-typed because so many of your "contributions" say exactly the same thing reagrdless of topic.
You're a sucker for it ain't you?
Welcome to 2012 and yet another year of Tippia QuoteFests. Sheesh.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4206
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Posted - 2012.01.01 23:29:00 -
[29] - Quote
met worst wrote:In all my time baiting you Ah. So this is is a troll thread. Well, that explains a lot of things.
Among them your continual lack of argumentation. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
met worst
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
9
|
Posted - 2012.01.01 23:35:00 -
[30] - Quote
Wyke Mossari wrote:You might think people are being harsh but you choose to play a small aspect of the game and you've burnt yourself out. Try something new from this: What to do in Eve. Actually I don't find anyone being harsh. It's an expected behaviour and one I am well conversant with. I subscribe fully to "sandbox" and "This is Eve" etc.
It's more about the neccessity to do so and the impact on players. PI is a legitimate profession. It was a happy medium for highseccers and lowseccers with tax profits ultimately getting sunk out of game.
Much of those profits and planets now go into the hands of the big alliances putting even less control in the hands of the thousands of small corps/players. I think it's a legitimate complaint.
IMHO, (and it is only an opinion), the game is ultimately being taken away to satisfy the needs of a few and/or some remote (potentially vapourware) offering of a completely different genre/platform.
I am positive there are more and more empirists getting fed-up. Burned-out? Possible but 4 years of investment in the game having tried everything only to have something I was happy with removed yet again...
More like frustration.
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