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Arlic0
Caldari Elite Storm Enterprises Storm Armada
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Posted - 2007.05.29 19:57:00 -
[1]
So the other day I decided to see just how long it would take to indeed level every skill in Eve to level 5. My brother and I suspected more than six or seven yearsbut we were not prepared for the actual result. Using Eve-Mon, I added every skill to the list, and optimized it by taking Eve-Mon's advice to put learning first (of course). I used a brand-new character that whose attributes could've been optimized to some degree no doubt. The main reason that I am posting this, however, I because i thought people might find it interesting that to complete every skill in eve would take someone who just started more than 26 years (9606 days, 1770 skills). This is all done without any implants.
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Adam C
0utbreak
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Posted - 2007.05.29 19:58:00 -
[2]
hehe
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Judas Lonestar
Ganja Labs Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2007.05.29 19:58:00 -
[3]
Hell, you can probably cut a year or two off with implants.
Got Snickers?
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Wylker
Caldari Pyrrhus Sicarii Aftermath Alliance
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Posted - 2007.05.29 19:58:00 -
[4]
I agree, you should definately be able to create characters with all skills maxxed out. That way you can skip the pesky choices about what to train and get right to camping lowsec in a mothership.
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Blane Xero
Amarr The Firestorm Elite
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Posted - 2007.05.29 19:59:00 -
[5]
sadly, thats old news the mods shall not have my sig, if they do i'll kill CCP's hamsters.
kill 'em! we have backup gerbils - Deckard *kills any rodents of any kind for good measure* ha! |
Ralara
Caldari Exanimo Inc Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.05.29 19:59:00 -
[6]
Yup that is accurate. And it's why Eve is great. a 4 year old character with 60m SP still is... what, only 20% of the way to "end game", and even then, assuming Eve is up for the next 2, 3 years at a minimum (god i hope so) then it'll likely get up to 30-40 years of stuff.
No one can be the best at *everything*.
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DrAtomic
Atomic Heroes The OSS
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Posted - 2007.05.29 20:05:00 -
[7]
Jup and then they add more skills with every major patch prolonging it even further and then some. Players found the solution to it however, use mulitple characters and specialize everyone of them into a different path silly as it may be.
When I started playing it would have taken a player 4 years to complete the tree, somewhere somehow somebody went nuts however.
The idea behind the skill system is nice, but it's current implementation is starting to see more flaws then ever, in 2 years time you'll need +20 implants to every attribute in order to be able to finish the skilltree within 10 years. -----------------------------------------------
Originally by: CCP Sharkbait we are screwed.
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Zhenli
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Posted - 2007.05.29 20:07:00 -
[8]
I totally agree and love it like this. Rather than have a whole server full of super powerful maxed out characters like in WoW with massive Titans and Dreadnaughts at every orbit, players still need to continue to execute their 'external-veteran' play practices, than rely completely on their epic 'purple'/tier 2+ gear and internal-skill points.
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Saint Lazarus
C R Y O FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.05.29 20:08:00 -
[9]
Well that'd be maxing out 4 races to which would be pretty pointless lol
Unless you wanna fly a Minni, Amarr, Caldari AND Galletean Titan :P
So to "finish" EvE takes like 1/3 (cause there still is alot of cross race skills and what not) of that really which is still a dam long time but not impossible
And its maxing out industrail AND PvP, Social skillz, science...
So how long does it take to actually finish 1 Char? pick a carear and how long does it take him to get "perfect" at it? Im guessin ALOT less
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Janu Hull
Caldari Order of Z Industries
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Posted - 2007.05.29 20:19:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Saint Lazarus Well that'd be maxing out 4 races to which would be pretty pointless lol
Unless you wanna fly a Minni, Amarr, Caldari AND Galletean Titan :P
So to "finish" EvE takes like 1/3 (cause there still is alot of cross race skills and what not) of that really which is still a dam long time but not impossible
And its maxing out industrail AND PvP, Social skillz, science...
So how long does it take to actually finish 1 Char? pick a carear and how long does it take him to get "perfect" at it? Im guessin ALOT less
Which is part of the reason I think the "veteran advantage" is a bit of a myth.
After a few years, new skills at the high end take MONTHS to train for one level. In practical terms, even an unimplanted newb will make up a vast swath of the lead before they too run into massive training times on skills.
This is my sig, there are many others just like it. With me, my sig is worthless. Without (or with even) my sig, I am worthless... |
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SiJira
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Posted - 2007.05.29 20:20:00 -
[11]
yeah if you take into account that implants add 25 attributes points
all maxed learning skills = 88 total attribute points
with +5 implants you have 115
(learning skill% is added up there)
then you realize that you do not need to specialize in every single race 1/4 the time (roughly)
then you realize that you do not need to fly industrial or mining ships
then you realize that you need not train in specialized frigates if you will fly battleships
or cruisers etc
then you realize you do not need to specialize in most weapon types
then you realize that you do not need all the research / manufacturing / social / trading / corporation skills on one character (or any in most cases)
so i am going to say that it takes roughly 4 years to max out a character that specailizes (ie uses all the skills that they have when flying their ship/ship class)
4 years is really being generous because some skills make almost no difference for that 1 level to 5 and then most people arent using +5 attributes all the time and even the best misses some time between skills
so all those guys playing 3+ years with 5+ accounts have already won eve
____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore
miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some |
SiJira
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Posted - 2007.05.29 20:23:00 -
[12]
so when eve is 8 years old even if they add skills people will have already maxed characters - they only add varying branches to the entire skill tree that have little to no effect on current maxed skilled folk
:)
and yes i know most people dont have 5+ accounts but there are a lot with 2 accounts and that gives them enough for a carebear and a pvper ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore
miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some |
Ryas Nia
Minmatar Stormriders Fimbulwinter
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Posted - 2007.05.29 20:25:00 -
[13]
Originally by: SiJira so all those guys playing 3+ years with 5+ accounts have already won eve
NO.
Recruiting Terrorists |
Derovius Vaden
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Posted - 2007.05.29 20:27:00 -
[14]
Players with nothing to train don't play for much longer. Look at WoW, they hit their level ceiling and the only way to keep them entertained is to do some graphics touchups and encourage them to gank each other (as much gank as there is in WoW, mind you.)
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DrAtomic
Atomic Heroes The OSS
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Posted - 2007.05.29 20:28:00 -
[15]
Originally by: SiJira so i am going to say that it takes roughly 4 years to max out a character that specailizes (ie uses all the skills that they have when flying their ship/ship class).
That's exactly the reasoning CCP uses, however the reasoning is flawed, let's take the example of say a PvP pilot for 4 years, you lock out the player or limit his ability of all other content such as, exploring, missioning, mining, trading, hauling, capitals, researching, producing, etc.
The solution? People create new accounts; one for production, one for mining, one for exploration, one for capitals and so on.
Commercially sound, but flawed from a customer perspective who wants to experience the game in it's full. -----------------------------------------------
Originally by: CCP Sharkbait we are screwed.
My Top 10 List |
DrAtomic
Atomic Heroes The OSS
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Posted - 2007.05.29 20:33:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Derovius Vaden
Players with nothing to train don't play for much longer. Look at WoW, they hit their level ceiling and the only way to keep them entertained is to do some graphics touchups and encourage them to gank each other (as much gank as there is in WoW, mind you.)
Poor example. Look at DAOC, players hit level cap at about 2-3 months and end up playing for 2-4 years on average, reason? Awesome end game. EvE is not finished with a maxed out character, you still loose ships, you still need to refill that wallet, corps to build, corps to break, territory to conquer, to loose, alliances to build, to defeat, people to lead, people to train, you have lots to play for, in WoW... well once you're done grinding you'll find that it lacks end-game and will find yourself uninstalling with a maxed out character in DAOC or EvE, you won't because they are way better designed in that department. -----------------------------------------------
Originally by: CCP Sharkbait we are screwed.
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Estel Arador
Minmatar AFK
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Posted - 2007.05.29 20:57:00 -
[17]
Originally by: DrAtomic (...) however the reasoning is flawed, let's take the example of say a PvP pilot for 4 years, you lock out the player or limit his ability of all other content such as, exploring, missioning, mining, trading, hauling, capitals, researching, producing, etc.
You don't have to do everything with perfect skills. I'm one year old and I can do half of the things you mentioned. With only a little more training (another year at most), I can do pretty much all of those except capitals.
The assumption that you must have every skill and must have every skill maxed is flawed. What you must do is make choices. You can do one thing perfectly or a lot of things slightly less than perfectly. You can even be mediocre at everything if you make that choice. =AFK=
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Rutoo
Gallente Interstellar eXodus R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.05.29 20:59:00 -
[18]
Well Think of it this way,
When eve first came out after beta, They said it would take someone 3-5 Years to train all the skills to level 5.
Much has changed _________________________________________________________ My Second EvE Video Club Seals Not Sandwichs
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DrAtomic
Atomic Heroes The OSS
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Posted - 2007.05.29 21:13:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Estel Arador
Originally by: DrAtomic (...) however the reasoning is flawed, let's take the example of say a PvP pilot for 4 years, you lock out the player or limit his ability of all other content such as, exploring, missioning, mining, trading, hauling, capitals, researching, producing, etc.
You don't have to do everything with perfect skills. I'm one year old and I can do half of the things you mentioned. With only a little more training (another year at most), I can do pretty much all of those except capitals.
The assumption that you must have every skill and must have every skill maxed is flawed. What you must do is make choices. You can do one thing perfectly or a lot of things slightly less than perfectly. You can even be mediocre at everything if you make that choice.
21 million skillpoints here, 198 skills. For PvP there is quite a broad spectrum that you need maxed (or is highly desired), I can't fly: covops, hacs and above, have **** poor gunnery skills, etc, sure I can blob along but am I usefull enough in small roaming groups? So I find this exploration site (with my second account) which contains mercoxit.... Whooohooo... or not.... cant mine it... on neither account.
Ow well let's agree to disagree, im off toactually play the game instead of threadnaughting. -----------------------------------------------
Originally by: CCP Sharkbait we are screwed.
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DrAtomic
Atomic Heroes The OSS
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Posted - 2007.05.29 21:15:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Rutoo Well Think of it this way,
When eve first came out after beta, They said it would take someone 3-5 Years to train all the skills to level 5.
Much has changed
Thank you. -----------------------------------------------
Originally by: CCP Sharkbait we are screwed.
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Derovius Vaden
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Posted - 2007.05.29 21:17:00 -
[21]
Originally by: DrAtomic
Originally by: Derovius Vaden
Players with nothing to train don't play for much longer. Look at WoW, they hit their level ceiling and the only way to keep them entertained is to do some graphics touchups and encourage them to gank each other (as much gank as there is in WoW, mind you.)
Poor example. Look at DAOC, players hit level cap at about 2-3 months and end up playing for 2-4 years on average, reason? Awesome end game. EvE is not finished with a maxed out character, you still loose ships, you still need to refill that wallet, corps to build, corps to break, territory to conquer, to loose, alliances to build, to defeat, people to lead, people to train, you have lots to play for, in WoW... well once you're done grinding you'll find that it lacks end-game and will find yourself uninstalling with a maxed out character in DAOC or EvE, you won't because they are way better designed in that department.
Thats because DAoC is not so much focused on the player as they are the different factions. WoW has tried to emulate this with their capture the flag arenas, or whatever they are called. EVE has stepped well above this and allowed the players to draw the lines and make the teams.
I would still rather have a game with no level ceiling (atleast in terms of an obtainable ceiling) than one that had me maxed out and then doing the same old same old for the rest of my gaming experience.
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DrAtomic
Atomic Heroes The OSS
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Posted - 2007.05.29 21:21:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Derovius Vaden I would still rather have a game with no level ceiling (atleast in terms of an obtainable ceiling) than one that had me maxed out and then doing the same old same old for the rest of my gaming experience.
Which DAOC solved brilliantly with their Realm Points system (points, ranks and abilities awared based on PvP kills). -----------------------------------------------
Originally by: CCP Sharkbait we are screwed.
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ToxicFire
Phoenix Knights Dark Nebula Galactic Empire
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Posted - 2007.05.29 21:28:00 -
[23]
Most of that time is lvls on skills that aren't really needed if you want to see the skill endgame of eve go by requirements, train every skill in eve and for every item most of the higher level skills pull the lower levels up to lvl 5 as pre req's but the high end skills stay at lower levels as they don't serve as prerequisite, the true value is probably under a decade to succsfully train for every skill and item in eve. Sig removed as it lacks EVE-related content. Mail [email protected] if you have questions. -Hango
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Harotak
The Burning Orphans Exuro Mortis
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Posted - 2007.05.29 21:30:00 -
[24]
On one hand I think its cool that it takes so long to get your skills maxed, but on the other I see how as more skills are added it takes longer and longer before new players get to the point where they are competitive.
The thing I dislike the most are the learning skills. I would like to see the learning skills removed, everyone get +11 to all attributes (same as maxed learning), and for the people who did train learning to somehow get an "sp reimbursment", so that when they start training a skill it instantly gains the ammount of points they have reimbursed (or maybe it could be reimbursed as "training time" to relect the different speeds that the same char would train various skills)
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Derovius Vaden
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Posted - 2007.05.29 21:40:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Harotak On one hand I think its cool that it takes so long to get your skills maxed, but on the other I see how as more skills are added it takes longer and longer before new players get to the point where they are competitive.
The thing I dislike the most are the learning skills. I would like to see the learning skills removed, everyone get +11 to all attributes (same as maxed learning), and for the people who did train learning to somehow get an "sp reimbursment", so that when they start training a skill it instantly gains the ammount of points they have reimbursed (or maybe it could be reimbursed as "training time" to relect the different speeds that the same char would train various skills)
If and only if CCP gives me backdated time to use on skills I should have trained instead of my learning skills.
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squidgee
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.05.29 21:45:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Derovius Vaden
Players with nothing to train don't play for much longer. Look at WoW, they hit their level ceiling and the only way to keep them entertained is to do some graphics touchups and encourage them to gank each other (as much gank as there is in WoW, mind you.)
This is a pretty good line of reasoning in most MMOs, but not so much in EVE. EVE is a lot more about the meta-game. Scamming, PvP, Alliance vs Alliance, griefing, etc are the interesting parts of EVE, not leveling up. In something like WoW you play to make numbers go up. In EVE you play for the interactions that occur in the game. ----
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Major Stormer
Caldari Infinitus Odium
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Posted - 2007.05.29 22:00:00 -
[27]
I love this game
*sniff
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ToxicFire
Phoenix Knights Dark Nebula Galactic Empire
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Posted - 2007.05.29 22:01:00 -
[28]
Originally by: squidgee
Originally by: Derovius Vaden
Players with nothing to train don't play for much longer. Look at WoW, they hit their level ceiling and the only way to keep them entertained is to do some graphics touchups and encourage them to gank each other (as much gank as there is in WoW, mind you.)
This is a pretty good line of reasoning in most MMOs, but not so much in EVE. EVE is a lot more about the meta-game. Scamming, PvP, Alliance vs Alliance, griefing, etc are the interesting parts of EVE, not leveling up. In something like WoW you play to make numbers go up. In EVE you play for the interactions that occur in the game.
Though alot of pysch studies have shown that the simple ding for a level is more rewarding than complex systems or long term derived rewards.
In a way I spose you could say WoW's a game, EVE's a hobby Sig removed as it lacks EVE-related content. Mail [email protected] if you have questions. -Hango
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Arlic0
Caldari Elite Storm Enterprises Storm Armada
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Posted - 2007.05.29 22:11:00 -
[29]
Originally by: squidgee
Originally by: Derovius Vaden
Players with nothing to train don't play for much longer. Look at WoW, they hit their level ceiling and the only way to keep them entertained is to do some graphics touchups and encourage them to gank each other (as much gank as there is in WoW, mind you.)
This is a pretty good line of reasoning in most MMOs, but not so much in EVE. EVE is a lot more about the meta-game. Scamming, PvP, Alliance vs Alliance, griefing, etc are the interesting parts of EVE, not leveling up. In something like WoW you play to make numbers go up. In EVE you play for the interactions that occur in the game.
I agree. My brother is starting a new account, but if you think about the time, energy, and money it would take to start a new character in Eve, you're almost better off just buying a new one on the forums.
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Stitcher
Caldari DarkStar Armada
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Posted - 2007.05.29 22:26:00 -
[30]
Just an FYI -
There's no E in the word "Ridiculous"
-Stitcher, Grammar Godwin extraordinaire.
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