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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Etho Demerzel
Gallente Holy Clan of the Cone
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Posted - 2007.06.01 22:11:00 -
[1051]
Originally by: Jarrod White As I understand the ISD issue. An ISD reporter was doing something they shouldn't have. They had multiple complaints about activities previously. I would guess they were probably being closely supervised and got caught red handed. CCP fires them. So what is the question? They were doing wrong; they got fired. That's how it works in the real world.
You are right. Bumping a ship, IF he actually did that (and that is a big if), is much worse than spawning T2 bpos. Right?
How comes only those that go against BoB and their "friends" get the shaft? I can name at least 3 or 4 cases of volutaries and players who did something damaging to BoB and got banned. I defy you to find one name of a person who did something FOR BoB or against their enemies and got banned or fired for it...
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"If a member of the EVE community finds he or she cannot accept our current level of transparency, we bid you good luck in finding a company that meets your needs." - CCP kieron... |
Erika Strada
Minmatar Native Freshfood
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Posted - 2007.06.01 22:15:00 -
[1052]
Great to se that CCP show us what was going on for real. but one thing that realy was bad is that BOB have MSN to CCP workers not that i say they miss use it. just sound realy bad if you se to what happend whit the BPO's.
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Erika Strada
Minmatar Native Freshfood
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Posted - 2007.06.01 22:15:00 -
[1053]
Great to se that CCP show us what was going on for real. but one thing that realy was bad is that BOB have MSN to CCP workers not that i say they miss use it. just sound realy bad if you se to what happend whit the BPO's.
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Jarrod White
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Posted - 2007.06.01 22:24:00 -
[1054]
I would be pleased if someone would give specific names, dates, and places of cases so they can be verified. If CCP is messing up big time they need to know. It must be something that is more than allegation. Please give verifiable names, dates, and places. Thank you.
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Jarrod White
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Posted - 2007.06.01 22:24:00 -
[1055]
I would be pleased if someone would give specific names, dates, and places of cases so they can be verified. If CCP is messing up big time they need to know. It must be something that is more than allegation. Please give verifiable names, dates, and places. Thank you.
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Canis Velanic
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Posted - 2007.06.01 22:41:00 -
[1056]
Blah blah blah. How does any of this address the real issue of there being so many bugs and mechanics flaws in the game that it could be considered rediculous? Seems like a lot of resources could have been better spent. If you (CCP) were REALLY worried about your image you'd have everyone and their brother fixing bugs and broken mechanics or at least bringing coffee and donuts and giving foot rubs to the one's that are.
Less blah blah blah and more bug fixing please.
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Canis Velanic
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Posted - 2007.06.01 22:41:00 -
[1057]
Blah blah blah. How does any of this address the real issue of there being so many bugs and mechanics flaws in the game that it could be considered rediculous? Seems like a lot of resources could have been better spent. If you (CCP) were REALLY worried about your image you'd have everyone and their brother fixing bugs and broken mechanics or at least bringing coffee and donuts and giving foot rubs to the one's that are.
Less blah blah blah and more bug fixing please.
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Sethiol
Asha' Man
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Posted - 2007.06.01 22:49:00 -
[1058]
Originally by: Radar Rat I love the way internal affairs have succesfully sidestepped most of the issues.
sidestep 1. sharkbait, the issue was that he created suspicion by not giving the corporation any feedback when he entered the corp and gave himself director roles etc, which left an atmosphere of mistrust, yes he was found inocent but that doesn't address the manor in which he behaved while adressing the petition.
sidestep 2. the isd reporter, the issue isn't whether or not he was sacked, but how that sacking came about, specifically the abusive way in which BoB members treated the isd reporter and the threat to have him dealt with, and the speed at which BoB succeeded in carrying out that threat, also whether or not they had leverage over CCP, in other words whether or not BoB told CCP to sack the isd reporter regardless of if he was in trouble for previous mistakes.
sidestep 3. BoB and MSN, there has been NO attempt by internal affairs to answer this issue at all, and ironically this is the most damaging acusation of them all, if there is any truth at all over the statement made by dianabolic then it would mean that the game is in effect rigged in BoB's favor, allowing them intel and perks not available to anyone else.
It may be true that goonswarm have a bad reputation, and also that they handled this whole situation in the wrong way, but that doesn't make either CCP or BoB inocent, and i get the feeling that the threat of legal action against goonswarm is more of a threat against others that might expose coruption in the future than anything.
Ironically the worst damage wasn't caused by goonswarm but by dianabolic, and yet he/she and the rest of BoB has once again walked away untouched..
if dianabolic lied when making the claim about MSN links to CCP then surely that would mean a lifetime ban from eve..., on the other hand if its true then steps should be taken to remove those links and those involved should be punished ... but nothing.., couple that with the fact that BoB constantly seem to get away with events that would get anyone else a ban or at the very least a warning and its not surprising that there is very little trust left for CCP, by the players.
This has got to be the best response I have read yet. It is a concise and to-the-point post about what I think alot of people are still upset with CCP. This is just one persons opinion, but if CCP where to answer these questions and not attempt yet another sidestep, most players would drop it.
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Sethiol
Asha' Man
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Posted - 2007.06.01 22:49:00 -
[1059]
Originally by: Radar Rat I love the way internal affairs have succesfully sidestepped most of the issues.
sidestep 1. sharkbait, the issue was that he created suspicion by not giving the corporation any feedback when he entered the corp and gave himself director roles etc, which left an atmosphere of mistrust, yes he was found inocent but that doesn't address the manor in which he behaved while adressing the petition.
sidestep 2. the isd reporter, the issue isn't whether or not he was sacked, but how that sacking came about, specifically the abusive way in which BoB members treated the isd reporter and the threat to have him dealt with, and the speed at which BoB succeeded in carrying out that threat, also whether or not they had leverage over CCP, in other words whether or not BoB told CCP to sack the isd reporter regardless of if he was in trouble for previous mistakes.
sidestep 3. BoB and MSN, there has been NO attempt by internal affairs to answer this issue at all, and ironically this is the most damaging acusation of them all, if there is any truth at all over the statement made by dianabolic then it would mean that the game is in effect rigged in BoB's favor, allowing them intel and perks not available to anyone else.
It may be true that goonswarm have a bad reputation, and also that they handled this whole situation in the wrong way, but that doesn't make either CCP or BoB inocent, and i get the feeling that the threat of legal action against goonswarm is more of a threat against others that might expose coruption in the future than anything.
Ironically the worst damage wasn't caused by goonswarm but by dianabolic, and yet he/she and the rest of BoB has once again walked away untouched..
if dianabolic lied when making the claim about MSN links to CCP then surely that would mean a lifetime ban from eve..., on the other hand if its true then steps should be taken to remove those links and those involved should be punished ... but nothing.., couple that with the fact that BoB constantly seem to get away with events that would get anyone else a ban or at the very least a warning and its not surprising that there is very little trust left for CCP, by the players.
This has got to be the best response I have read yet. It is a concise and to-the-point post about what I think alot of people are still upset with CCP. This is just one persons opinion, but if CCP where to answer these questions and not attempt yet another sidestep, most players would drop it.
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Ezra
Gallente Calista Industries Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2007.06.01 22:51:00 -
[1060]
Originally by: CHIKA QRE Let me summarize:
Goons claim devs infiltrated their corp to spy on them. They also petition dev MSN contacts to BOB.
CCP claim someone filed a petition about some factory job so they had to do it. They say nothing about MSN.
Goons claim no one remembers that petition and it's fake. MSN still an issue.
CCP provides (electronic) evidence. Still no mentioning MSN.
Goons still claim they didn't do it. MSN still there.
CCP starts screaming at player base. No mention of MSN.
Many start sucking up to CCP. MSN still an issue.
How will it end?
You screwed up there.
CCP's initial response was "Sharkbait joined due to a POS petition"
DarkStar 1 - "We filed no petitions regarding any POS bugs"
CCP's response - "Here's the petition:" <ccp shows petition regarding a factory slot in an NPC station> "You're lying, we're going to sue you!"
CCP's response did not refute DS1's claims that they did not file any POS petition in any way. ------------ Ezra Cornell
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Ezra
Gallente Calista Industries Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2007.06.01 22:51:00 -
[1061]
Originally by: CHIKA QRE Let me summarize:
Goons claim devs infiltrated their corp to spy on them. They also petition dev MSN contacts to BOB.
CCP claim someone filed a petition about some factory job so they had to do it. They say nothing about MSN.
Goons claim no one remembers that petition and it's fake. MSN still an issue.
CCP provides (electronic) evidence. Still no mentioning MSN.
Goons still claim they didn't do it. MSN still there.
CCP starts screaming at player base. No mention of MSN.
Many start sucking up to CCP. MSN still an issue.
How will it end?
You screwed up there.
CCP's initial response was "Sharkbait joined due to a POS petition"
DarkStar 1 - "We filed no petitions regarding any POS bugs"
CCP's response - "Here's the petition:" <ccp shows petition regarding a factory slot in an NPC station> "You're lying, we're going to sue you!"
CCP's response did not refute DS1's claims that they did not file any POS petition in any way. ------------ Ezra Cornell
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Great Guardian
Minmatar Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2007.06.01 23:09:00 -
[1062]
Edited by: Great Guardian on 01/06/2007 23:09:02 Three DIAMONDS posted by Dianabolic, Reikoku, Chief Diplomat of Band of Brothers Alliance (originally posted by eleuthereus):
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"You do realise that, in a previous witch hunt, the fact that many of us speak to the devs / gm's / employees of CCP on a regular basis as friends is already common knowledge? And you're now complaining thatw e speak to these people, who are also our friends, about stuff in-game?" (5/26/07 01:15:00 Post #335)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"We have a 'special' line (if you want to call msn that) to our FRIENDS. Even devs need friends, you know, they're not robots" (5/26/07 01:20:00 Post #347) IN RESPONSE TO THE QUESTION: "So basically you do have a special line straight to the devs and presumably get special favors because of that?" [asked by Azerrad InExile]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
"tbf guys, if you're all so offended by the fact that we've built up a relationship with the makers of this game over FOUR YEARS of playing it, perhaps you shoudl start acting your age and, instead of looking to sacrifice them for your own gains at every opportunity, engage with them to make this game what we all want it to be?" (5/26/07 02:11:00 Post #510)
=========================================
... followed by double standards:
"I will now tell you the story of a GM, GM Eldini. Several members of GoonFleet attended the FanFest in 2006 and while there they befriended a GM by the name of 'Eldini'. This GM possessed the same sarcastic humor and wit that appeals to Goons and was invited to join our forums and partake in discussions that take place on our forums of which only a small percentage actually deals with EVE directly. After the to be expected period of "hey, a GM, cool" question and answer round, he settled in and was readily accepted as just another 'goon'. From the beginning it was made clear by the directorate that GM Eldini was just there to socialize and that any goon attempting to get any special treatment from the association, even in jest, would be banned. We wanted to protect both ourselves and GM Eldini from any possible accusations of bias. This relationship lasted for about a week before GM Eldini indicated that he was forced to remove himself from the Goon community and, while it was never stated, it was implied that his employment was threatened over the relationship. Apparently BoB can socialize with CCP employees but heaven forbid that another corporation or alliance create a friendship with a CCP employee."
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Will CCP keep statistics to keep track of which of their access-priviledged developers as well as their trusted volunteers are in which alliances?
"IT DOES NOT MATTER what the truth is at this point (read that twice please), the only thing that matters is perception, and what people will believe. Sadly the door was opened with the T20 deal and I am not sure it can be closed at this point.
No matter what side you are on I think you would agree the above is true. Pandora's box would look good right now. "
{Thanks Wargasm}
Is truth just another CCPÆs commodity here? The older you get the more you realize that truth is a relative thing. And proof is definitely in the eye of the beholder.
" I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Hah! Attack ships on fire, off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams, glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments.... will |
Great Guardian
Minmatar Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2007.06.01 23:09:00 -
[1063]
Edited by: Great Guardian on 01/06/2007 23:09:02 Three DIAMONDS posted by Dianabolic, Reikoku, Chief Diplomat of Band of Brothers Alliance (originally posted by eleuthereus):
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"You do realise that, in a previous witch hunt, the fact that many of us speak to the devs / gm's / employees of CCP on a regular basis as friends is already common knowledge? And you're now complaining thatw e speak to these people, who are also our friends, about stuff in-game?" (5/26/07 01:15:00 Post #335)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"We have a 'special' line (if you want to call msn that) to our FRIENDS. Even devs need friends, you know, they're not robots" (5/26/07 01:20:00 Post #347) IN RESPONSE TO THE QUESTION: "So basically you do have a special line straight to the devs and presumably get special favors because of that?" [asked by Azerrad InExile]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
"tbf guys, if you're all so offended by the fact that we've built up a relationship with the makers of this game over FOUR YEARS of playing it, perhaps you shoudl start acting your age and, instead of looking to sacrifice them for your own gains at every opportunity, engage with them to make this game what we all want it to be?" (5/26/07 02:11:00 Post #510)
=========================================
... followed by double standards:
"I will now tell you the story of a GM, GM Eldini. Several members of GoonFleet attended the FanFest in 2006 and while there they befriended a GM by the name of 'Eldini'. This GM possessed the same sarcastic humor and wit that appeals to Goons and was invited to join our forums and partake in discussions that take place on our forums of which only a small percentage actually deals with EVE directly. After the to be expected period of "hey, a GM, cool" question and answer round, he settled in and was readily accepted as just another 'goon'. From the beginning it was made clear by the directorate that GM Eldini was just there to socialize and that any goon attempting to get any special treatment from the association, even in jest, would be banned. We wanted to protect both ourselves and GM Eldini from any possible accusations of bias. This relationship lasted for about a week before GM Eldini indicated that he was forced to remove himself from the Goon community and, while it was never stated, it was implied that his employment was threatened over the relationship. Apparently BoB can socialize with CCP employees but heaven forbid that another corporation or alliance create a friendship with a CCP employee."
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Will CCP keep statistics to keep track of which of their access-priviledged developers as well as their trusted volunteers are in which alliances?
"IT DOES NOT MATTER what the truth is at this point (read that twice please), the only thing that matters is perception, and what people will believe. Sadly the door was opened with the T20 deal and I am not sure it can be closed at this point.
No matter what side you are on I think you would agree the above is true. Pandora's box would look good right now. "
{Thanks Wargasm}
Is truth just another CCPÆs commodity here? The older you get the more you realize that truth is a relative thing. And proof is definitely in the eye of the beholder.
" I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Hah! Attack ships on fire, off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams, glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments.... will |
Jarrod White
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Posted - 2007.06.02 00:08:00 -
[1064]
The MSN thing has been answered in the forum topic directly above this one.
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Jarrod White
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Posted - 2007.06.02 00:08:00 -
[1065]
The MSN thing has been answered in the forum topic directly above this one.
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Fred Dobbs
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Posted - 2007.06.02 00:33:00 -
[1066]
Originally by: Jarrod White The MSN thing has been answered in the forum topic directly above this one.
If you are referring to Arkanon's latest post, no it was not answered completely. There was no reference to Admiral C at all in that post.
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Fred Dobbs
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Posted - 2007.06.02 00:33:00 -
[1067]
Originally by: Jarrod White The MSN thing has been answered in the forum topic directly above this one.
If you are referring to Arkanon's latest post, no it was not answered completely. There was no reference to Admiral C at all in that post.
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Rillian
Black Lance NBSI Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.02 02:12:00 -
[1068]
The MSN/instant messanger issue has not been answered just side stepped
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Rillian
Black Lance NBSI Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.02 02:12:00 -
[1069]
The MSN/instant messanger issue has not been answered just side stepped
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Richard Johannson
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Posted - 2007.06.02 02:55:00 -
[1070]
Originally by: Etho Demerzel
How comes only those that go against BoB and their "friends" get the shaft? I can name at least 3 or 4 cases of volutaries and players who did something damaging to BoB and got banned. I defy you to find one name of a person who did something FOR BoB or against their enemies and got banned or fired for it...
Read this thread, Etho
BoB and other...
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Richard Johannson
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Posted - 2007.06.02 02:55:00 -
[1071]
Originally by: Etho Demerzel
How comes only those that go against BoB and their "friends" get the shaft? I can name at least 3 or 4 cases of volutaries and players who did something damaging to BoB and got banned. I defy you to find one name of a person who did something FOR BoB or against their enemies and got banned or fired for it...
Read this thread, Etho
BoB and other...
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MehTheTrader
University of Caille
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Posted - 2007.06.02 05:28:00 -
[1072]
Are devs still playing this game? You are basically promoting a game where bob can cheat AGAIN. How many times will BoB cheat until devs are taken out of the game. CCP why do you put trust in your employees, they are bound to lie, just like t22.
Only got to look at bob attitude to see how much integrity devs have in this game, most devs are in bob and lv correct? And they do the most smack, bugs, msn, etc.
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MehTheTrader
University of Caille
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Posted - 2007.06.02 05:28:00 -
[1073]
Are devs still playing this game? You are basically promoting a game where bob can cheat AGAIN. How many times will BoB cheat until devs are taken out of the game. CCP why do you put trust in your employees, they are bound to lie, just like t22.
Only got to look at bob attitude to see how much integrity devs have in this game, most devs are in bob and lv correct? And they do the most smack, bugs, msn, etc.
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Etho Demerzel
Gallente Holy Clan of the Cone
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Posted - 2007.06.02 05:33:00 -
[1074]
Originally by: Richard Johannson
Originally by: Etho Demerzel
How comes only those that go against BoB and their "friends" get the shaft? I can name at least 3 or 4 cases of volutaries and players who did something damaging to BoB and got banned. I defy you to find one name of a person who did something FOR BoB or against their enemies and got banned or fired for it...
Read this thread, Etho
BoB and other...
This thread is about inconsistence in GM rulings. Another great problem in this game. This whole POs bowling was stupid and allowing it instead of cutting it at the root was a very bad thing. It should be forbidden from day one and it would be over. Nobody would risk titans and motherships if they can be confiscated, even if the chance is small.
I see nothing related specifically with BoB, either pro or against it in this event. If someone had been banned or lost a super capital confiscated for it while they did it impunity, as happened in other affairs, it would be ridiculous. As it is I don't see anything related to what I said.
GM's rulings are a mess in this game though. And it is a mess that needs fixing, both in requiring the right channels to happen and in consistence.
=====
"If a member of the EVE community finds he or she cannot accept our current level of transparency, we bid you good luck in finding a company that meets your needs." - CCP kieron... |
Etho Demerzel
Gallente Holy Clan of the Cone
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Posted - 2007.06.02 05:33:00 -
[1075]
Originally by: Richard Johannson
Originally by: Etho Demerzel
How comes only those that go against BoB and their "friends" get the shaft? I can name at least 3 or 4 cases of volutaries and players who did something damaging to BoB and got banned. I defy you to find one name of a person who did something FOR BoB or against their enemies and got banned or fired for it...
Read this thread, Etho
BoB and other...
This thread is about inconsistence in GM rulings. Another great problem in this game. This whole POs bowling was stupid and allowing it instead of cutting it at the root was a very bad thing. It should be forbidden from day one and it would be over. Nobody would risk titans and motherships if they can be confiscated, even if the chance is small.
I see nothing related specifically with BoB, either pro or against it in this event. If someone had been banned or lost a super capital confiscated for it while they did it impunity, as happened in other affairs, it would be ridiculous. As it is I don't see anything related to what I said.
GM's rulings are a mess in this game though. And it is a mess that needs fixing, both in requiring the right channels to happen and in consistence.
=====
"If a member of the EVE community finds he or she cannot accept our current level of transparency, we bid you good luck in finding a company that meets your needs." - CCP kieron... |
Irata X
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Posted - 2007.06.02 06:23:00 -
[1076]
Edited by: Irata X on 02/06/2007 06:23:00 Why do a lot of players still show so much concern on this issue and claim a lot of important questions unanswered? I see 2 main possible reasons:
1. CCP does not yet understand what REALLY concerns a part of the community: - some BoB members getting special attention by some CCP staff - lack of or improper / unprofessional communication - the perception of double standards applied towards BoB / non-BoB
or is it
2. CCP does not really care about these concerns and plans on just sitting it out
Decide for yourself.
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Irata X
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Posted - 2007.06.02 06:23:00 -
[1077]
Edited by: Irata X on 02/06/2007 06:23:00 Why do a lot of players still show so much concern on this issue and claim a lot of important questions unanswered? I see 2 main possible reasons:
1. CCP does not yet understand what REALLY concerns a part of the community: - some BoB members getting special attention by some CCP staff - lack of or improper / unprofessional communication - the perception of double standards applied towards BoB / non-BoB
or is it
2. CCP does not really care about these concerns and plans on just sitting it out
Decide for yourself.
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Darkstar BP
Caldari eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.
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Posted - 2007.06.02 07:06:00 -
[1078]
Edited by: Darkstar BP on 02/06/2007 07:06:42 Why was Lemonde, organizer of the tournament, and member of BoB requested to choose between his post in CCP and BoB?
There is nothing wrong, according to CCP to be in both, unless people cannot keep these separate.
What did Lemonde not keep separate?
Edit: For the record, Lemonde chose BoB over CCP, so much for the arguments that nobody would be stupid enough to risk losing their job over such a thing
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Darkstar BP
Caldari eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.
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Posted - 2007.06.02 07:06:00 -
[1079]
Edited by: Darkstar BP on 02/06/2007 07:06:42 Why was Lemonde, organizer of the tournament, and member of BoB requested to choose between his post in CCP and BoB?
There is nothing wrong, according to CCP to be in both, unless people cannot keep these separate.
What did Lemonde not keep separate?
Edit: For the record, Lemonde chose BoB over CCP, so much for the arguments that nobody would be stupid enough to risk losing their job over such a thing
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Malachon Draco
eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.
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Posted - 2007.06.02 08:23:00 -
[1080]
Originally by: Darkstar BP Edited by: Darkstar BP on 02/06/2007 07:06:42 Why was Lemonde, organizer of the tournament, and member of BoB requested to choose between his post in CCP and BoB?
There is nothing wrong, according to CCP to be in both, unless people cannot keep these separate.
What did Lemonde not keep separate?
Edit: For the record, Lemonde chose BoB over CCP, so much for the arguments that nobody would be stupid enough to risk losing their job over such a thing
Actually he chose his character over his job at CCP.
BoB kicked him out for being a loser who couldn't stay with the program and preferred lowsec pirating in his MS over helping the corp. signature removed - please contact us to find out why (include the URL of your sig) - Jacques([email protected]) |
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