Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
G Khan
|
Posted - 2007.05.30 02:50:00 -
[1]
It's no wonder new players won't touch this game with a 10-foot pole, CCP has a trust problem and continue to make it worse with everything they do.
Quote: Originally by:Malloc Memrel This is the first and probably only post on eve-o I'll ever make, as I've never been much of a "Game X Forums" kind of guy, but I had to say this.
As an ex-Blizzard employee, I am flabbergasted at the extent to which developer presence contaminates the player pool. With WoW there wasn't a line between our player accounts and our personal accounts- there was a wall, a moat, a spike-filled trench, and electrified barbed wire. You so much as tried to enter a developer command into the console, you'd be kicked from the server, your account would be flagged, and unless you had a really damn good rason for attempting to bring developer capabilities into the game your ass was fired. You told no one anything about the game behind the curtain, you never told anyone in-game that you even worked for the company, or your ass was fired. The impetus for crossing that line in eve is entirely beyond me.
And don't start for a second with "We need to see how things work." Rubbish. You've got one of the most robust test servers known to MMOs, you've got ridiculously fluid interaction from your player base (At least from the bottom-up) and if nothing else you could have internal servers to try things on. Having anyone with even the possibility of developer powers in the public server is nothing short of madness. Having powers above and beyond normal players, or having access to information beyond the average player, is akin to putting water in chocolate- a single drop can cause a whole batch to sieze and it's ruined just like that.
"But what about GMs?" you ask. Fair enough, they need certain powers to set things right. But they should only ever exist in the game when no other option presents itself. They should be invisible, intangible, a last resort for a coding malfunction or dispute that requires GM omniscience to solve. They should not be people but a service, identifiable only to the point that they can be held accountable for their actions. If you tried to log in as a GM account anywhere but at Blizzard's GM center, hell, if you even hinted that you had a GM account, you'd be canned so fast your head would spin. That CCP would willingly and intentionally contaminate the public player base with what amounts to demi-gods with varying degrees of moral fortitude just boggles my mind.
The thing is, I know some CCPers here on the american side of things, people I've worked with in the past, and I just feel so sorry for them. I just want to say to them, "What the hell is going on over there? What kind of people are you working for?" but I know it isn't their fault.
Bottom line, CCP doesn't care. What exactly they don't care about, I'm not sure; it could be that they don't care about people being in a position to abuse powers beyond what normal paying customers can do, or it could be that they don't care about the effect establishing an Old Boy's Club with their closest pals has on the rest of the game, or it could be any number of things. But the inevitable conclusion is that there is some aspect of the past and current troubles that they are simply turning their noses up at.
The sad thing is, I left WoW for EvE because despite all the work I had put into it, EvE struck me as the superior product. Ironically, I was half wrong and half right. Eve has the potential to be a superior product, but this kind of customer relations seems to spit in the face of everyone who wants to play a game with a firm set of established rules applicable throughout the playerbase.
|
Ediz Daxx
FinFleet
|
Posted - 2007.05.30 02:50:00 -
[2]
yawn
|
Popsikle
Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.05.30 02:51:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Popsikle on 30/05/2007 02:50:22 IBTL! IAGA (In after Goon alt) ;p
Edit: Dammit, not finfleet dude, OP dude.
__________________________________________
|
G Khan
|
Posted - 2007.05.30 02:53:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Popsikle Edited by: Popsikle on 30/05/2007 02:50:22 IBTL! IAGA (In after Goon alt) ;p
Edit: Dammit, not finfleet dude, OP dude.
In before the lock? CCP Arkanon has promised us that they won't silence or censor their customers.
|
DubanFP
Caldari Four Rings D-L
|
Posted - 2007.05.30 02:53:00 -
[5]
Edited by: DubanFP on 30/05/2007 02:54:13 1) No where does it PROVE he worked on WoW except his own words.
2) Personally i prefer developers that actually know what the game is like. The people with problems are always the most vocal. So many good games were ruined by a handfull of very active whiners, while the devs here actually know what the game world is like and can adjust accordingly. Not like all the failures that tried to listen to the loud minority. ____________
DubanFP > where ever there is a player that's getting too rich, wherever there's an industrial with too much loot, wherever there is a noob with too much smack we'll be there... |
G Khan
|
Posted - 2007.05.30 02:55:00 -
[6]
Originally by: DubanFP
2) Personally i prefer developers that actually know what the game is like. The people with problems are always the most vocal. So many good games were ruined by a handfull of very active whiners, while the devs here actually know what the game world is like and can adjust accordingly.
If you bothered to read, you'd have seen this point is addressed quite succinctly.
|
Johnnie Nano
Open Season
|
Posted - 2007.05.30 02:56:00 -
[7]
Goon propaganda.
|
DubanFP
Caldari Four Rings D-L
|
Posted - 2007.05.30 02:56:00 -
[8]
Edited by: DubanFP on 30/05/2007 02:57:37 Edited by: DubanFP on 30/05/2007 02:55:52
Originally by: G Khan
Originally by: DubanFP
2) Personally i prefer developers that actually know what the game is like. The people with problems are always the most vocal. So many good games were ruined by a handfull of very active whiners, while the devs here actually know what the game world is like and can adjust accordingly.
If you bothered to read, you'd have seen this point is addressed quite succinctly.
Just because i read it "word for word, beginning to end" doesn't mean i agree with it. Test servers are no substitute for real servers. A vocal community means Vocal Minority which ruins FAR more games then it helps. ____________
DubanFP > where ever there is a player that's getting too rich, wherever there's an industrial with too much loot, wherever there is a noob with too much smack we'll be there... |
Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
|
Posted - 2007.05.30 02:57:00 -
[9]
Go ruin another MMORPG. EVE Online is not bowing to the will of the Goons.
--23 Member--
Listen to EVE-Trance Radio! |
Retrostyle
The Greater Goon The OSS
|
Posted - 2007.05.30 02:59:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Retrostyle on 30/05/2007 03:00:11
Originally by: DubanFP 1) No where does it PROVE he worked on WoW except his own words
Regardless of this, his points are valid. I have never played a MMO where the devs actions were as blatent as CCPs. The entire concept of GM 'having to join a corp/alliance' to correct an issue is 100% suspect at best and given CCP history with Band of Brothers, obviously, an issue of integrity.
Regardless of whatever fable they have chosen to spin this time. Are we all not seeing this pattern? 'Oh yes, we did this but we totally, accidently gave those BPOs/performed some action for alliance x (where x = BoB), it won't happen again! Yet it does.
|
|
voogru
Gallente Massive Damage
|
Posted - 2007.05.30 03:02:00 -
[11]
Edited by: voogru on 30/05/2007 03:01:40 In before the ban!
The whole thing was a load of bullcrap, sharkbait responded to a petition pretty much and the people responsible for the petition take advantage of it and try to make CCP look bad.
They should all get a nice vacation from EVE.
|
Siigari Kitawa
Gallente The Aduro Protocol
|
Posted - 2007.05.30 03:02:00 -
[12]
Truth be told, I actually know this guy.
I talked with him while at his house, and he told me he has played some EVE, but was working on Starcraft 2 or something and it got canned and he quit. Anyway.
He told me that he is not a huge fan of the fact that there is so much dilution in the game between what is actual player gameplay and GM intervention. How I responded to that was a simple "Why shouldn't the people that make the game be able to play the game? A lot of GMs are just paid to monitor the game's internal mechanics, answer petitions, etc. It's the DEVELOPERS that are the ones that MAKE the game."
If a Dev is to get involved in the game, it is their business. As people who create the game, they are able to understand down to the character each line of code in the files that make this game what it is. They should show self-control in their actions, and not muck around. Here's the thing - if a Dev does something on Tranquility to alter the game that is not a patch-related change, he is going to very likely get fired and become banned from playing the game in any way, anywhere, and further, nobody would probably never know about it. If a GM does something in Tranquility to alter the game, there is going to be a lot more exposure about it, and it is going to look bad because CCP hired somebody that "cheated."
Let's just remember that the people that make the game want to play it too. Let's say you created the game Twister, and you knew the exact weight of the spinner so you could spin it to a circle you could plant an arm or a leg on every time, would you still play? Of course you would. You MADE THE GAME. And you wouldn't cheat by manipulating the spinner. The Devs have the same responsibility and they uphold it. So lighten up.
That's me to him. And we had a good honest discourse about it. He's a great guy. (I mean seriously, he quit Blizzard :D) But his views come from a corporate and business standpoint, and should not be simply dismissed or swept aside because "He doesn't know anything about EVE." He is not coming with EVE-related issues, he's coming with business structure and involvement issues. _________________ Burn.
|
Thull Arcannon
|
Posted - 2007.05.30 03:02:00 -
[13]
Why is this board filled with drama queens? No wonder the guy is an ex blizzard employee. At least CCP is open about the investigations with us, you would not hear a peep from Blizzard if they were in charge.
You people don't know how good you have it, there are some horrendous developers out there. You should be highly thankful you have CCP in charge of this game.
|
Ediz Daxx
FinFleet
|
Posted - 2007.05.30 03:05:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa Truth be told, I actually know this guy.
I talked with him while at his house, and he told me he has played some EVE, but was working on Starcraft 2 or something and it got canned and he quit. Anyway.
He told me that he is not a huge fan of the fact that there is so much dilution in the game between what is actual player gameplay and GM intervention. How I responded to that was a simple "Why shouldn't the people that make the game be able to play the game? A lot of GMs are just paid to monitor the game's internal mechanics, answer petitions, etc. It's the DEVELOPERS that are the ones that MAKE the game."
If a Dev is to get involved in the game, it is their business. As people who create the game, they are able to understand down to the character each line of code in the files that make this game what it is. They should show self-control in their actions, and not muck around. Here's the thing - if a Dev does something on Tranquility to alter the game that is not a patch-related change, he is going to very likely get fired and become banned from playing the game in any way, anywhere, and further, nobody would probably never know about it. If a GM does something in Tranquility to alter the game, there is going to be a lot more exposure about it, and it is going to look bad because CCP hired somebody that "cheated."
Let's just remember that the people that make the game want to play it too. Let's say you created the game Twister, and you knew the exact weight of the spinner so you could spin it to a circle you could plant an arm or a leg on every time, would you still play? Of course you would. You MADE THE GAME. And you wouldn't cheat by manipulating the spinner. The Devs have the same responsibility and they uphold it. So lighten up.
That's me to him. And we had a good honest discourse about it. He's a great guy. (I mean seriously, he quit Blizzard :D) But his views come from a corporate and business standpoint, and should not be simply dismissed or swept aside because "He doesn't know anything about EVE." He is not coming with EVE-related issues, he's coming with business structure and involvement issues.
You had out of game means of contacting a ISD! You cheater!
|
Kage Getsu
Knowledge Industries Geological Research Ghosts Syndicate
|
Posted - 2007.05.30 03:05:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Retrostyle Edited by: Retrostyle on 30/05/2007 03:00:11
Originally by: DubanFP 1) No where does it PROVE he worked on WoW except his own words
Regardless of this, his points are valid. I have never played a MMO where the devs actions were as blatent as CCPs. The entire concept of GM 'having to join a corp/alliance' to correct an issue is 100% suspect at best and given CCP history with Band of Brothers, obviously, an issue of integrity.
Regardless of whatever fable they have chosen to spin this time. Are we all not seeing this pattern? 'Oh yes, we did this but we totally, accidently gave those BPOs/performed some action for alliance x (where x = BoB), it won't happen again! Yet it does.
Hint: GMs can see everything in the game anyways, they don't need director access to spy on things. Better luck next time! _________________________________________________________
|
Siigari Kitawa
Gallente The Aduro Protocol
|
Posted - 2007.05.30 03:08:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Siigari Kitawa on 30/05/2007 03:08:05 Also- he's not a goon :P I know this because.. I just do. :V _________________ Burn.
|
Evelgrivion
Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate
|
Posted - 2007.05.30 03:31:00 -
[17]
Every bit of this guy's criticism is based around the assumption that CCP actually did wrong (and they have countered every leveled accusation sans the "developers on MSN" bit), which renders most of this guy's comments moot.
"Don't need to actually play thanks to test servers" my ass. You truly cannot replicate the real eve experience on a test server because EVE is not like any other MMO on the planet. This guy is a jackass.
This isn't the signature you're looking for. |
Gojyu
|
Posted - 2007.05.30 03:35:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Evelgrivion Every bit of this guy's criticism is based around the assumption that CCP actually did wrong (and they have countered every leveled accusation sans the "developers on MSN" bit), which renders most of this guy's comments moot.
Actually, it's based on the assumption that developers have access to job-related powers when not playing eve in an official capacity. If this is correct, the poster states that ccp would be doing wrong
Quote:
"Don't need to actually play thanks to test servers" my ass. You truly cannot replicate the real eve experience on a test server because EVE is not like any other MMO on the planet. This guy is a jackass.
What makes eve so different that they can not replicate something in a test environment?
|
Cynoka
|
Posted - 2007.05.30 03:59:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Cynoka on 30/05/2007 03:58:28 Goon propaganda, plain and simple.
I cant stand BoB and their slaves but the Goons are just plain embarrasing to our side
|
Anaalys Fluuterby
Caldari
|
Posted - 2007.05.30 04:05:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Gojyu What makes eve so different that they can not replicate something in a test environment?
Load and complexity of the server farm.
It cannot be duplicated on SISI until the test server has 30k+ players and 220+ cpus. <-----------> Factional Warfare:
The LowSec wars which never happened. |
|
Anaalys Fluuterby
Caldari
|
Posted - 2007.05.30 04:07:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Dark Shikari Go ruin another MMORPG. EVE Online is not bowing to the will of the Goons.
And if anyone doubts the Goons "actions", just remember that IA had posted their direct EMail address 4 *days* before this happened. They KNEW the direct channels to go through, with direct contact with the people to lodge the complain. But purposely decided to not take that route. <-----------> Factional Warfare:
The LowSec wars which never happened. |
Dalanoria
The-Dark-Legion Ground Zeero
|
Posted - 2007.05.30 04:17:00 -
[22]
Originally by: DubanFP Edited by: DubanFP on 30/05/2007 03:03:30 1) No where does it PROVE he worked on WoW except his own words. But i'm not going to dwell on that, so continue on to
2) Personally i prefer developers that actually know what the game is like. The people with problems are always the most vocal. So many good games were ruined by a handfull of very active whiners, while the devs here actually know what the game world is like and can adjust accordingly. Not like all the failures that tried to listen to the loud minority.
Wow your a nub face...Getting a GM job with Blizzard is like getting a job at MC donalds. They have THOUSANDS of GM's in California, UK, CHINA.....THOUSANDS...They hire their own players for these jobs, they start at 7.50$ an hour just like MC Donalds...
I played WOW from release (still play) I know ALOT of GM's...Not only can you not have a charatcer on the same server you oversee, you cannot log into your GM account anywhere but a GM center.
CCP plays their game thats fine..But they also abuse the game. Look at what theyve done for BOB and Snowy...
Infact ID say the reason BOB has won so many battles and supprised so many alliances with tactics is because CCP gave them inside info,,
|
FarScape III
|
Posted - 2007.05.30 04:20:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Retrostyle Edited by: Retrostyle on 30/05/2007 03:00:11
Originally by: DubanFP 1) No where does it PROVE he worked on WoW except his own words
Regardless of this, his points are valid. I have never played a MMO where the devs actions were as blatent as CCPs. The entire concept of GM 'having to join a corp/alliance' to correct an issue is 100% suspect at best and given CCP history with Band of Brothers, obviously, an issue of integrity.
Regardless of whatever fable they have chosen to spin this time. Are we all not seeing this pattern? 'Oh yes, we did this but we totally, accidently gave those BPOs/performed some action for alliance x (where x = BoB), it won't happen again! Yet it does.
In other games no one cares but devs do whater they do.
EVE is just so awsome, people take it TOO seriously.
A Minmater City... Cool! My Stats :) |
Badhands
Gallente Low Sec Liberators
|
Posted - 2007.05.30 04:34:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Kage Getsu
Originally by: Retrostyle Edited by: Retrostyle on 30/05/2007 03:00:11
Originally by: DubanFP 1) No where does it PROVE he worked on WoW except his own words
Regardless of this, his points are valid. I have never played a MMO where the devs actions were as blatent as CCPs. The entire concept of GM 'having to join a corp/alliance' to correct an issue is 100% suspect at best and given CCP history with Band of Brothers, obviously, an issue of integrity.
Regardless of whatever fable they have chosen to spin this time. Are we all not seeing this pattern? 'Oh yes, we did this but we totally, accidently gave those BPOs/performed some action for alliance x (where x = BoB), it won't happen again! Yet it does.
Hint: GMs can see everything in the game anyways, they don't need director access to spy on things. Better luck next time!
I was in Darkstar1 until this morning. There was no stinking petition. CCP lies. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Statement on dev misconduct:
for the record, Darkstar1 has 3 pos in game only, both are and have always worked fine |
Aries Acheron
Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate
|
Posted - 2007.05.30 04:46:00 -
[25]
This was a post taken from another thread.
This 'Blizz Employee' was grilled to death and refused to respond after, last I saw.
I guess its' time for proof or stfu, the watchword of Eve. ~~~
Action! Suspense! Jita! Eve Tribune
|
Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
|
Posted - 2007.05.30 04:48:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Badhands
Originally by: Kage Getsu
Originally by: Retrostyle Edited by: Retrostyle on 30/05/2007 03:00:11
Originally by: DubanFP 1) No where does it PROVE he worked on WoW except his own words
Regardless of this, his points are valid. I have never played a MMO where the devs actions were as blatent as CCPs. The entire concept of GM 'having to join a corp/alliance' to correct an issue is 100% suspect at best and given CCP history with Band of Brothers, obviously, an issue of integrity.
Regardless of whatever fable they have chosen to spin this time. Are we all not seeing this pattern? 'Oh yes, we did this but we totally, accidently gave those BPOs/performed some action for alliance x (where x = BoB), it won't happen again! Yet it does.
Hint: GMs can see everything in the game anyways, they don't need director access to spy on things. Better luck next time!
I was in Darkstar1 until this morning. There was no stinking petition. CCP lies.
How can you claim that nobody in your corporation made a petition?
Do you have cameras watching all of their computers?
--23 Member--
Listen to EVE-Trance Radio! |
Sheriff Jones
Amarr Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United Cult of War
|
Posted - 2007.05.30 05:01:00 -
[27]
Quote: Originally by:Malloc Memrel
As an ex-Blizzard employee, and unless you had a really damn good rason for attempting to bring developer capabilities into the game your ass was fired. You told no one anything about the game behind the curtain, you never told anyone in-game that you even worked for the company, or your ass was fired.
I rest my case
|
Pseudo Ucksth
The Unpodable Supermen FREGE Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.05.30 05:20:00 -
[28]
If you don't like it then quit. Why is there drama beyond this simple logic?
Quit. Go away. Cry yourselves to sleep in frustration of the ultimate injustices that have oppressed you that can obviously never be righted.
Comparing the ways dev teams work inside of their games is like comparing the method of fixing a rocket engine to the method of fixing a propellor airplane. It doesn't logically work.
_____
|
Megadon
Caldari Deathshead Inc.
|
Posted - 2007.05.30 05:31:00 -
[29]
Thats a good post and its true.
A lot of the people that have responded so far don't have a clue.
How CCP runs their biz is biting them in the ass.
|
Jim McGregor
|
Posted - 2007.05.30 05:33:00 -
[30]
Umm, who cares if he worked at blizzard? That job is better than working for someone else?
Its just a guys opinion. And its very possible to disagree with it.
--- Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune |
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |