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Shameless Avenger
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Posted - 2007.05.31 00:07:00 -
[1]
Tractor beams pull the wrecks at a certain velocity. If you go faster than 300ms the wreck distance to your ship will oscillate between 1400m and 1600m. But when it's over 1500m you can't open the wreck. You can salvage though, because salvagers have a range of 5000m. But if you want to loot, you need to slow down.
Same thing applies when you are using a small looting ship (like a destroyer) and pulling a can for the loot. At speeds over 300ms the can get's just a few meters over the 1500m mark and you can't open it.
I believe that either the distance to access a can/wreck should be increased, or the tractor beam should pull a little bit harder.
/IMHO
/flame suit on
Please discuss |
Taran Summers
The Merovingians
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Posted - 2007.05.31 00:24:00 -
[2]
Maybe well get to overheat the tractors :) |
Michael Caldar
DangerZone Inc.
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Posted - 2007.05.31 05:40:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Shameless Avenger
I believe that either the distance to access a can/wreck should be increased, or the tractor beam should pull a little bit harder.
/IMHO
/flame suit on
Please discuss
At a risk of sounding controversial I see another possibility - you can slow down?  But yes, it is annoying but again - if you time it right... 
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Shameless Avenger
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Posted - 2007.05.31 05:46:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Shameless Avenger on 31/05/2007 05:51:55
Originally by: Michael Caldar
Originally by: Shameless Avenger
I believe that either the distance to access a can/wreck should be increased, or the tractor beam should pull a little bit harder.
/IMHO
/flame suit on
Please discuss
At a risk of sounding controversial I see another possibility - you can slow down? But yes, it is annoying but again - if you time it right...
Yeap, I'm doing that. But some lvl 4 battles scatter wrecks over a 200km field. Very annoying.
/me tell NPC: Please guys, get together now... closer... I need you to die closer together please, for the salvaging... come on inty, you too, get in the group... |
Fenren
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Posted - 2007.05.31 06:46:00 -
[5]
if you just time the dragging of the loot there is no problem going 470 m/s.
the tractor beam drags things at 500m/s. a most reasonable speed
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Shameless Avenger
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Posted - 2007.05.31 08:27:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Shameless Avenger on 31/05/2007 08:30:15
Originally by: Fenren
if you just time the dragging of the loot there is no problem going 470 m/s.
the tractor beam drags things at 500m/s. a most reasonable speed
Would love to see somebody doing that with 5 salvagers + lag. |
J'Mkarr Soban
Amarr
Viziam
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Posted - 2007.05.31 08:36:00 -
[7]
The one I hate, which I'm sure is a bug, is when two wrecks get caught on each other and neither moves towards you. You have to stop all tractor beams and restart them. It's something to do with the AB, but I haven't figured out exactly what yet. Once I do I'm going to bug report it. Anyone else had this?
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Leandro Salazar
The Blackguard Wolves
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Posted - 2007.05.31 09:12:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Shameless Avenger
Edited by: Shameless Avenger on 31/05/2007 08:30:15
Originally by: Fenren
if you just time the dragging of the loot there is no problem going 470 m/s.
the tractor beam drags things at 500m/s. a most reasonable speed
Would love to see somebody doing that with 5 salvagers + lag.
Maybe your real problem then is running missions in a laggy system? I have no problems tractoring stuff and keeping it in range at just below 500...
Thank you SkyFlyer!
There is no 'n' in tur |
Ares Lightfeather
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.05.31 11:29:00 -
[9]
Actualyl I agree that 1500 meter is really small, when a wreck is linked via a tractor beam the range should increase. Alternatively, you could also change the tractor beam "stop" point to 500 meters instead of 1000 meters, but that's something for CCP to do.
Second point : why is this called a "small" tractor beam ? Any guess ? I want to see the medium and large ones !
And if it goes the way weapons do (difference between a small weapon and a large one is about double damage and double range), this means that the medium should have 40 range with 1 km/s movement, and so on... which solves the problem of large battles.
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OneSock
Silentia Mortalis
Curse Alliance
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Posted - 2007.05.31 11:57:00 -
[10]
Originally by: J'Mkarr Soban
The one I hate, which I'm sure is a bug, is when two wrecks get caught on each other and neither moves towards you. You have to stop all tractor beams and restart them. It's something to do with the AB, but I haven't figured out exactly what yet. Once I do I'm going to bug report it. Anyone else had this?
Yes. It seems to happen to me when I change direction. It's an odd one.
I also get the OPs problem. I can AB at ~400m/s and the tractor can pull at 500m/s so you get a bounce effect where the can bounces off the ship and out of range. It's a bit of a pain so yeah would be nice to make the bounce less.
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Spider Iarus
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Posted - 2007.05.31 12:38:00 -
[11]
Wrecks move at 500m/s when tractored and on a perfect vector behind you.
If you're moving faster than that, it doesn't take rocket science to figure out the result.
What needs to happen:
1. Possibly add the velocity of the ship to that of the beam (act as if it were a 'reel', so once latched it's moving at ship velocity + reel velocity, net = 500m/s toward the ship
2. Add improved versions of the module (FFS, one tractor and one salvager available? wth, CCP, this takes five minutes and the effort of a chihuahua squeezing a tootsie-roll sized loaf into a hankie)
3. *shudder* add a skill for tractors. It better let us have increased range AND pull. and...honestly, just don't.
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B4NK
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Posted - 2007.05.31 13:39:00 -
[12]
Originally by: J'Mkarr Soban
The one I hate, which I'm sure is a bug, is when two wrecks get caught on each other and neither moves towards you. You have to stop all tractor beams and restart them. It's something to do with the AB, but I haven't figured out exactly what yet. Once I do I'm going to bug report it. Anyone else had this?
hey hey, Look a little closer and you will see that one wreck is bouncing off the other. just drop 1 tractor beam and not all. alternativly turn around and approach a wreck.
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RuriHoshino
Minmatar
The Mission Guys
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Posted - 2007.05.31 17:57:00 -
[13]
Edited by: RuriHoshino on 31/05/2007 17:56:39
Originally by: J'Mkarr Soban
The one I hate, which I'm sure is a bug, is when two wrecks get caught on each other and neither moves towards you. You have to stop all tractor beams and restart them. It's something to do with the AB, but I haven't figured out exactly what yet. Once I do I'm going to bug report it. Anyone else had this?
Yes, we have had this, and there's a very goofy solution that works for no good reason at all: web one of the wrecks, preferably the one that's farther out. Not that you're likely to have a web on a salvaging ship, but I swear I've watched this work. I don't know if that was a bug, if it's been removed, or what. In theory, there is no way that a web should work on something that doesn't have a propulsion system. But it does.
This also works for drones that get stuck together, but in that case it makes sense. Try it. 
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The Mission Guys - Scavenging the remains of our fallen enemies since 2007 |
Red Rumurder
5punkorp
Betrayal Under Mayhem
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Posted - 2007.05.31 18:03:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Shameless Avenger
Tractor beams pull the wrecks at a certain velocity.
yes
Originally by: Shameless Avenger
if you go faster than 300ms the wreck distance to your ship will oscillate between 1400m and 1600m.
no
tractor beams go 500m/s
my destroyer with AB II on goes 487m/s and the can still gets pulled to me and once to me i can loot with out slowing down
u may want to look about getting your tractor beams looked at
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Exlegion
Caldari
KnightRaven Research
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Posted - 2007.05.31 19:52:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Red Rumurder
Originally by: Shameless Avenger
if you go faster than 300ms the wreck distance to your ship will oscillate between 1400m and 1600m.
no
tractor beams go 500m/s
my destroyer with AB II on goes 487m/s and the can still gets pulled to me and once to me i can loot with out slowing down
u may want to look about getting your tractor beams looked at
Actually, my destroyer seems to suffer from this very same problem. If I have my AB2 on, the wreck's range does oscillate between 1.4ish and 1.6ish kms. It's annoying trying to catch it at the less-than-1.5k distance in order to loot it. Of course, if the wreck is empty, then there is no problem whatsoever in salvaging.
I'd love to see more efficient looter-salvager ships that can address these problems and perhaps even at greater distances and speed. Are you listening, ORE Syndicate?
 One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Guru |
J'Mkarr Soban
Amarr
Viziam
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Posted - 2007.05.31 22:25:00 -
[16]
I forgot to actually reply to the OP, heh.
I fly at around 395 with AB2 on, and it bounces between 1,350 and 1,510. Except it bounces at such a rate that dragging the goodies from the wreck to the cargo hold is always just at the wrong time. Even leaving it for a while. I'm sure this is a wonderful combination of a) lag. b) GUI lag. c) lag. d) the bounce rate. e) lag. In this circumstance, even the smallest amount of lag really messes up trying to move the goodies across.
(Pah, goodies, who am I kidding. Soon-to-be-recycled-junk more like, but nm)
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Crove
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Posted - 2007.05.31 23:50:00 -
[17]
a) why would the can bounce off of you if you were tractoring it, anyway? Shouldn't it reach a point where it is as close to you as it can be, and the tractor holds it there?
b) why do we STILL have the wrecks-getting-stuck-on-each-other bug, which is just an extension of the old drones-getting-stuck-on-each-other bug? This was in the game in late 2005 when I took my first break from eve. It seems in the last year and a half the amazing improvement on the drone side is....less drones and no drone graphics. Yet they STILL get stuck to each other and fly at under 100 m/s unless you web one, super.
Please, please hire someone to fix this. :( Even the average American could probably be taught enough programming to fix this bug in 18 months. *shudder*
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Hockston Axe
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.06.01 00:31:00 -
[18]
Look at the velocity of the tractored wreck/can (turn it on in the overview). When it gets within the 1500m range the tractor cuts its speed, with no regard to the velocity of your ship. It then sees that itÆs out of transfer range, and increases the tow speed again. It gets within 1500m, cuts the speed, rinse and repeat for annoyance and frustration.
It happens when your ship is towing the can behind it, if the can comes from the front the tractor pushes it along in front of your ship and the æbounceÆ doesnÆt happen.
I had to solve the problem by setting up a new salvager that only goes 299m/s with the AB, that fixed it for me, although itÆs a less than desired solution. ItÆs part of the reason why IÆve given up looting a large portion of my wrecks, it just takes too long with too little payoff and too much annoyance.
Medium and large tractor beams have my vote 10 times over.
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Troxane
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Posted - 2007.06.01 00:53:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Fenren
if you just time the dragging of the loot there is no problem going 470 m/s.
the tractor beam drags things at 500m/s. a most reasonable speed
I guess u are juste running a single tractor beam
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Shameless Avenger
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Posted - 2007.06.01 01:22:00 -
[20]
Originally by: J'Mkarr Soban
The one I hate, which I'm sure is a bug, is when two wrecks get caught on each other and neither moves towards you. You have to stop all tractor beams and restart them. It's something to do with the AB, but I haven't figured out exactly what yet. Once I do I'm going to bug report it. Anyone else had this?
Oh yes, I have one of those every other day. Really annoying. |
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Fenren
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Posted - 2007.06.01 06:51:00 -
[21]
No i have 3-5 depending on the wreck layout. if they are spread out i use 3 (as it is a lot of travelling time, and i salvage more then) if they are close togheter or in packed groups, i use 4-5.
althou i am in a not-so-laggy system. that might do a little to help
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Zo5o
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Posted - 2007.06.01 19:35:00 -
[22]
Quote:
I had to solve the problem by setting up a new salvager that only goes 299m/s with the AB, that fixed it for me, although itÆs a less than desired solution.
You can set your speed in any ship by hovering your mouse over the speedometer, waiting for the "click to set your speed to === m/s" message, and clicking in the appropriate spot.
I've been setting my speed to 299 m/s with AB running for a while now because of OP's problem.
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Elspeth Vigneron
Caldari
Phoenix Logistics Industries
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Posted - 2007.06.01 19:41:00 -
[23]
I've found if you work on your timing, you can get the wreck contents without slowing down... Yeah, it's goofy... But it works.
Phoenix Logistics Industries |
XenoPagan
Khanid Provincial Vanguard
Khanid Provincial Authority
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Posted - 2007.06.04 12:01:00 -
[24]
never had that bumping problem (using BC - 4x salv 4x tractor & MWD) but friend of mine complained about same thing yesterday when using AB
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J'Mkarr Soban
Amarr
Viziam
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Posted - 2007.06.04 12:13:00 -
[25]
Originally by: XenoPagan
never had that bumping problem (using BC - 4x salv 4x tractor & MWD) but friend of mine complained about same thing yesterday when using AB
Which bump problem? Bumping behind you?
Do you slow down to under 500m/s when using your MWD?
Anyway, even if this is a solution, it doesn't help, cause most missions are deadspace.
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Krondakova
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Posted - 2007.06.04 14:49:00 -
[26]
I think that can bounce problem is made by afterburner.
I used to have it with Coercer with afterburner, but now use Hertic with no afterburner and is better now.
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Goldis
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Posted - 2007.06.04 21:14:00 -
[27]
The solution I found to this problem was to tweak my destroyer's speed to 400m/s with afterburner on, slow enough to pick up everything with ab on, and enough expanders to carry it.
The optimal solution I can see is using an mwd on the dessie (just pulse between wreck groups) and tractor/salvage at normal speed. Not tested yet due to lack of skills tho, cap management might be an issue there.
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J'Mkarr Soban
Amarr
Viziam
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Posted - 2007.06.05 00:42:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Goldis
The solution I found to this problem was to tweak my destroyer's speed to 400m/s with afterburner on, slow enough to pick up everything with ab on, and enough expanders to carry it.
The optimal solution I can see is using an mwd on the dessie (just pulse between wreck groups) and tractor/salvage at normal speed. Not tested yet due to lack of skills tho, cap management might be an issue there.
Still doesn't help in deadspace. Maybe 1 in every 20 missions I do is not in deadspace. Though can anyone confirm that this is entirely due to the AB? If so we can start bug reporting it.
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Traska Gannel
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Posted - 2007.06.05 03:10:00 -
[29]
I bug reported both of these issues a few months ago - but maybe more people should report them for emphasis.
1) Tractor beam oscillation. It does not have to do with afterburners - just velocity - I salvage flying an interdictor that goes 480m/s with no afterburners - when tractoring the wrecks/cans will oscillate around 1500m away - anywhere from about 1450m to 1600m - this usually means 2 or 3 attempts to loot before it is successful - but you can loot them. I second the vote for increased looting distance - I don't see any balance issue that would be affected in raising the looting distance to 2000m.
2) I believe that the tractor bug where they appear to stop working is an object collision bug. When two wrecks collide - it appears that their velocities get reset to zero and they have to be accelerated up to speed again - however, by that time the salvager has typically moved up to several kilometers away so it appears that the tractor stopped working. If you stop your ship the tractored objects will eventually catch up. I have also seen the exact same problem once with drones - I recalled my drones and just happened to be watching when 3 zipped back to my ship while the remaining two would move a short distance accelerating then suddenly stop (the graphics were not lagged since the rest of the screen was updating fine). The two drones appeared to be occupying exactly the same spot and would repeatedly collide which appeared to reset their velocity to zero. It took them a long time to return to the ship. It seemed to me that this is another example of the same bug - but I don't know how their code is written.
Since both of these were bug reported I am hoping they will get looked at but since they are just somewhat irritating game play issues my guess is they would be a very low priority even if they could be fixed with only 10 minutes of coding.
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Shan'Talasha Mea'Questa
The Perfect Harvesting Experience
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Posted - 2007.06.05 08:28:00 -
[30]
You can bookmark a wreck and come back after you have completed the mission.
No more deadspace problem.
I recognize the can-humping-problem, and that is without using my afterburner. That is reserved for moving between patches of wrecks when I am not towing anything.
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Originally by: Paper
Rock's fine, nerf Scissors
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