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Garreck
Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.02 19:37:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Garreck on 02/06/2007 19:36:03
Originally by: Derran See, we were all assuming CVA wanted a fair fight. They didn't want a fair fight, they wanted to win.
...
So congradulations to CVA for coming after a poorer alliance by using your large resources to take advantage of weak game mechanics instead of doing a stand up fight.
Are you suggesting we reset, both sides remove their respective allies from the conflict, and duke it out just the two of us, CVA fleet vs U'K fleet? I mean, that's what would be "fair."
However, that makes a bit of a mockery of the whole "not very roleplay" claim by Ushra'Khan. You used every means at your disposal to defend your system, we're using every means to take it. This is an accurate and realistic reflection of combat in Eve. The CVA/U'K conflict does not exist in a vacuum. It plays by the same rules as every conflict in Eve, and has the same political ramifications (involvement of allies, third parties with interest in the outcome, etc) as every conflict in Eve.
Fight for your system. This forum bitterness needs to stop.
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Verone
Gallente Veto Corp
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Posted - 2007.06.02 19:45:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Tar Kovsky
Originally by: Verone It's a sad state of affairs to see such bitter words between U'K and CVA after they've played together so long as enemies with mutual respect for each other.
If ever there was proof needed that the existing system of sovereignty and POS warfare was broken and very much not fun... . Every single moon in 9UY4-H now has a tower at it -- that's well over 50 towers. I can't imagine that either side will have time to fight with all the refueling we'll be doing.
<tinfoilhat> Makes me wonder which players have POS fuel BPOs... </tinfoilhat>
Well to be honest, this isn't aimed at you Tar so don't get me wrong mate, but more to Ushra'Khan as a whole : You're experiencing what our group of pirates did when we went to take 9UY.
Your situation now is much the same as when yourselves, ISS, and everyone and their family dog spammed towers into the system against us.
Sorry to be blunt but when we failed, we admitted we'd lost and you'd outblobbed us and we moved on learning from the experience.
Now when the boot is on the other foot and in your collective ass instead of ours, threads like this are made that are massively detrimental to the effort that CVA have put in over the last couple of weeks.
This is an RP conflict and the war between U'K and CVA has been, maybe with different names at the helm, going on for four years.
A massive turning point like this deserves to be posted IN CHARACTER on an IN CHARACTER forum, rather than angry members of Ushra'Khan coming here (of all bloody places given the crap that gets posted here) and making poorly veiled attempts at flaming the hell out of CVA for doing exactly what you do to 9UY when you need to defend it.
To be honest, this thread is a disgrace. I thought it was pretty low letting a thief back into your alliance who badmouthed U'K to get into our corp before taking off with 500m worth of gear I personally donated to him. I'm not going to go into detail with that here, but I'm sad to say this has sunk to a new low.
Congratulations on ruining an important turning point in the history of Providence and what is in effect a FOUR YEAR LONG ARC due to your OOC bitterness, for just about everyone who's been involved.
I await the Butter Dog / O Thief Flaming spam with open arms and popcorn at the ready.
>>> THE BEAUTY OF NEW EDEN <<<
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Butter Dog
The Littlest Hobos Betrayal Under Mayhem
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Posted - 2007.06.02 19:51:00 -
[33]
Originally by: AngryCanuk Your large tower in IS-R could have been put to better use then i suppose.... GJ CVA GL UK
Does the phrase "people in glass houses should not throw stones" mean anything to you?
I'd be more concerned with your total inability to deal with one hostile POS in your home system, than UK's ability to deal with 20 in theirs.
---------- signature removed - please do not discuss moderation in your signature graphic - Jacques([email protected])
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Rodj Blake
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2007.06.02 19:52:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Verone
It's a sad state of affairs to see such bitter words between U'K and CVA after they've played together so long as enemies with mutual respect for eachother.
Agreed, although I'm sure that once this is finished (however it finishes), things will be firendly again.
Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori. |
Rikelov
Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.06.02 20:06:00 -
[35]
very temporary setback, this battle is far from over...save your eulogies.
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Butter Dog
The Littlest Hobos Betrayal Under Mayhem
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Posted - 2007.06.02 20:06:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Verone
Congratulations on ruining an important turning point in the history of Providence and what is in effect a FOUR YEAR LONG ARC due to your OOC bitterness, for just about everyone who's been involved.
I await the Butter Dog / O Thief Flaming spam with open arms and popcorn at the ready.
Oh, I don't know, you've done a pretty good job throwing around assumptions and accusations about a conflict you know precisely nothing about, that my intervention hardly seems required.
btw, we didnt POS spam you in 9UY the last time round, it was a quite different situation. In fact I don't think we put up any extra POS (maybe one or two). Hardly the same as this 44 POS fun-a-thon.
Anyway, CVA can do whatever they like. POS spam aint my style, but hey, it works.
---------- signature removed - please do not discuss moderation in your signature graphic - Jacques([email protected])
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Rikelov
Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.06.02 20:09:00 -
[37]
btw, recliamation? You guys need to put down the bible and pick up a dictionary.
Worst temporary name for a conquered station yet.
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Tar Kovsky
Minmatar Khumatari Holdings Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.06.02 20:16:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Verone Sorry to be blunt but when we failed, we admitted we'd lost and you'd outblobbed us and we moved on learning from the experience.
I don't see as many parallels as you do, but I suppose that's a result of playing for the defense during both sieges.
In any event, we haven't exactly been outblobbed yet; unless the other team starts destroying our towers, we will regain sovereignty as soon as the game mechanics dictate.
To be sure, I'm quite opposed to any OOC bitterness on the part of my teammates and do my best to talk people out of that position when I can -- not very successfully, lately. I'm especially unhappy when it's done in public as this is obviously a game where "public opinion" is pretty important, and it seems to me that being bitter in public is about the worst PR move you can make.
Originally by: Verone A massive turning point like this deserves to be posted IN CHARACTER on an IN CHARACTER forum, rather than angry members of Ushra'Khan coming here (of all bloody places given the crap that gets posted here) and making poorly veiled attempts at flaming the hell out of CVA for doing exactly what you do to 9UY when you need to defend it.
I certainly can't argue against the first half of your point; in our defense, I can only say that we're all pretty tired and I suspect that it will be a few hours before someone can muster up the creativity required for an in-character post.
But with respect to the second half of what you wrote, I seem to recall that there were nearly daily POS battles back in September, whether at your towers or at ours. In contrast, since the first few days of this siege, the only attempts to destroy the other team's towers have been ours. I'm not going to claim that there's anything wrong with that -- it's obviously a legitimate approach to today's game mechanics -- but it's neither fun nor interesting. As such, it certainly contributes to people's feelings of bitterness.
Originally by: Verone To be honest, this thread is a disgrace. I thought it was pretty low letting a thief back into your alliance who badmouthed U'K to get into our corp before taking off with 500m worth of gear I personally donated to him. I'm not going to go into detail with that here, but I'm sad to say this has sunk to a new low.
I doubt that his corp was aware of this when he was was let back in, and you can be sure that we began to collect funds for restitution as soon as we learned about it. In any event, this hardly seems related to the topic of the thread.
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Conlin
Gallente Yiotul Fighters
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Posted - 2007.06.02 20:24:00 -
[39]
Picture this ! .
Cva and there monkeys capture Unity station by default after weeks of failure .
Back patting ,lots of hugs , cheering and elation .
Unity renamed Recliamation .
The wind picks up and tumbleweed floats by .
Now thats a picture worth seeing , gratz cva when I heard the bad news only to be followed up by the mispelling of the station , you made a lot of people laugh . Not with you , but at you
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The Mute
Minmatar Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.06.02 20:26:00 -
[40]
I am on holiday and not able to access Eve currently so when I read on the forums that UNITY had fallen I was a bit saddened by the news. I had fought tooth and nail for weeks to defend UNITY and our systems from CVA occupation and it's loss angers me, not because I want that god forsake station for myself but simply because I do not want CVA to have it.
For myself personally I believe that UNITY station has been a great burden for our alliance to bear but our tribe voted to build it, defend it and fight for it and so I have. Even though I do not want this station I am still angry to have lost it and so I understand my brothers who lash out here on the forums. Emotions run high and we are tired and frustrated so I think it is too be expected.
I agree with Verone though, we need to stop these harsh words, UK and CVA, lets move this to the in-character forums and stop making ourselves look bad. --------------------------------------------------
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Garreck
Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.02 20:28:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Conlin
Cva and their monkeys capture Unity station by default after weeks of failure .
Fixed. See how easy a typo can be?
Don't be petty.
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Tharrn
Amarr Epitoth Fleetyards Vigilia Valeria
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Posted - 2007.06.02 20:29:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Tharrn on 02/06/2007 20:29:55
Originally by: Tar Kovsky
If ever there was proof needed that the existing system of sovereignty and POS warfare was broken and very much not fun... . Every single moon in 9UY4-H now has a tower at it -- that's well over 50 towers. I can't imagine that either side will have time to fight with all the refueling we'll be doing.
<tinfoilhat> Makes me wonder which players have POS fuel BPOs... </tinfoilhat>
Wiser words have not been spoken in this thread :P
Edit: Regarding POS mechanics.
Ceterum censeo 'Concordia' esse delendam.
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Conlin
Gallente Yiotul Fighters
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Posted - 2007.06.02 20:33:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Garreck
Originally by: Conlin
Cva and their monkeys capture Unity station by default after weeks of failure .
Fixed. See how easy a typo can be?
Don't be petty.
Ammunition you needed , ammunition I gave Fishing is all about setting the bait and waiting for the fishies to bite
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Garreck
Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.02 20:34:00 -
[44]
Originally by: The Mute Even though I do not want this station I am still angry to have lost it and so I understand my brothers who lash out here on the forums. Emotions run high and we are tired and frustrated so I think it is too be expected.
Concur, Mute. I respect the sentiment and I can't say it wouldn't be the same if the tables were turned. I'm sure, as Rodj implies, that things will cool back down.
And that's after the whole conflict is resolved in space, which it most certainly is not at the moment. Just 'cause mechanics give us the outpost at the moment, we are by no means in control of the situation. Plenty of fighting to be done outside of venting on forums
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Niding
Polaris Project Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.02 20:36:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Niding on 02/06/2007 20:37:24
Originally by: The Mute I am on holiday and not able to access Eve currently so when I read on the forums that UNITY had fallen I was a bit saddened by the news. I had fought tooth and nail for weeks to defend UNITY and our systems from CVA occupation and it's loss angers me, not because I want that god forsake station for myself but simply because I do not want CVA to have it.
For myself personally I believe that UNITY station has been a great burden for our alliance to bear but our tribe voted to build it, defend it and fight for it and so I have. Even though I do not want this station I am still angry to have lost it and so I understand my brothers who lash out here on the forums. Emotions run high and we are tired and frustrated so I think it is too be expected.
I agree with Verone though, we need to stop these harsh words, UK and CVA, lets move this to the in-character forums and stop making ourselves look bad.[/quote]
Well Said! Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels -Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected])
Generally, when trying to be a puppetmaster, it is considered good form not to wrap the strings around your neck and choke yourself |
Garreck
Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.02 20:36:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Conlin Ammunition you needed , ammunition I gave Fishing is all about setting the bait and waiting for the fishies to bite
You surely made a fool of me. No doubt Ushra'Khan are grateful to your meaningful contribution to their plight.
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Maggot
Minmatar Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.06.02 20:52:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Ehrine Ashbark
Originally by: Tar Kovsky
Originally by: Ehrine Ashbark Sapp, towers have to be up for 5 days to count on the DT check. CVA spammed just before DT 5 days ago and you spammed back after. As such for todays check they're ahead.
There has never been a DT where we have not had more large towers up than CVA.
Actually there was. I was online and reading the Unite channel when CVA spammed 7 towers shortly before downtime. UK spammed back that afternoon. As a result, CVA had one more POS then UK at downtime.
Nope that is not correct at all. I saw that misinformation repeated a number of times through out the day.
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AngryCanuk
Madison Industrial Co. Sylph Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.02 21:01:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Butter Dog
Originally by: AngryCanuk Your large tower in IS-R could have been put to better use then i suppose.... GJ CVA GL UK
Does the phrase "people in glass houses should not throw stones" mean anything to you?
I'd be more concerned with your total inability to deal with one hostile POS in your home system, than UK's ability to deal with 20 in theirs.
My good sir, the ability is not a problem :P Its 1 large tower, hardly a threat, and your just putting more and more fuel into it :P Like I said, it was probably a wiser idea to put it elsewhere
Honor does not have to be defended. - Robert J. Sawyer
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Serenity Celestine
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Posted - 2007.06.02 21:15:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Serenity Celestine on 02/06/2007 21:19:59 I dont think that starting a POS deploying opp at 0:00 game time counts as "POS spammming right before DT." We can argue semantics all day. Neither side can claim to be a victim of "ghayness" here. Both sides have had their faults in this conflict. UK, gl in the coming days, hope to see a good fight.
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Maggot
Minmatar Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.06.02 21:27:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Rodj Blake
Originally by: Verone
It's a sad state of affairs to see such bitter words between U'K and CVA after they've played together so long as enemies with mutual respect for eachother.
Agreed, although I'm sure that once this is finished (however it finishes), things will be firendly again.
I would say that is a very very optimistic view. Mutual respect evaporated in the QR siege as we had non-mutual expectations of how this RP war was to be conducted.
Mags.
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Sybyan
Amarr Renegades of a New Horizon Brotherhood Of Steel
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Posted - 2007.06.02 21:48:00 -
[51]
It lifts my spirit to see those who harbor pirates and terrorists suffer such a huge lose.
Amarr Victory!!!
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Hardin
Amarr Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.02 21:55:00 -
[52]
Just a few points to address here:
Regarding the claim that CVA don't wish to fight I would like to point out that Ushra'khan and friends should be just as capable at attacking our towers as we are at attacking theirs.
The fact is that this was their home system and the onus was on them to defend it. It seems that their idea of defend was to have BUM, Outbreak, Evoke and Chaos Incarnate fleets ready to jump on any CVA (and allies) Dreads hitting UK POS coming out of reinforced. That successfully worked for them once and we therefore adapted our tactics.
The Minmatars and allies have had two/three weeks in which to launch their own 'counter-offensive' and knock down CVA POSes errected in their home system. Indeed, that is one of the reasons why for a long period we only maintained only a small number of POSes in the system. However, apart from sporadic efforts early on they chose not to. That is fair enough - it is their perogative to defend the system in whatever way they like and to be fair
However, the situation in 9UY had stalemated. Ushra'khan were not willing to take the offensive and similarly we were not willing to have our fleets ambushed by multiple Titans/Motherships in front of hostile POS (a pragmatic Amarrian approach ). The errection of further towers by CVA was therefore done to encourage the Minmatars to take the offensive and give us the fight that their members seem to be demanding here.
At the end of the day the CVA / UK war has been ongoing for about three years. We are in this for the long haul and quite prepared to play a waiting game - particularly as it would allow us to measure the commitment of Ushra'khan's new found friends.
The fact is that the battle for 9UY is far from over. I personally have played little part for a variety of real life reasons but am very proud of the stamina that CVA and our Amarrian allies have shown. Similarly the Minmatar resistance has been equally tenacious as you would expect from fanatical terrorists
At the end of the day, whether CVA takes this station or not, the 'second siege of 9UY' will go down in EVE history and that is why I play this game. How many other Outposts in EVE have a history like this one? Not many!
I really hope that people on both sides can just get on with the conflict and stop the *****ing. I don't address that soley to Ushra'khan or CVA either but also to the various 'involved' parties on either side who now have a stake in the outcome of this war and dragged into slaver/freedom fighter - loyalist/terrorists - Amarr/Minmatar roleplay whether they wanted to be or not
Amarr Victor!
------------------------------ CVA - Kicking Arse For The Empire - http://eve-files.com/dl/83607
AMARR VICTOR |
Jonny Damordred
Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2007.06.02 22:32:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Maggot I would say that is a very very optimistic view. Mutual respect evaporated in the QR siege as we had non-mutual expectations of how this RP war was to be conducted.
Fighting to win is RP. Otherwise you are just ****ing in space.
Cheers, Jonny D. -----
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Caillech
Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.06.02 22:37:00 -
[54]
The battle for freedom shall be won with ... haulers! \o/
The thing I always liked about this war is that it was unique in Eve. It was the longest-running conflict despite many changes in the game, and it was fought with style and sportsmanship.
Now it is just your average 0.0 war. Observe:
1. Smack on both sides at all-time levels. 2. Zero, and I mean zero, regard for RP. 3. Both sides resort to bringing in lots of friends and making allegiances with people who could not name the last emperor or the current Republic PM. 4. Massive flood of recruits who could not name the last emperor or the current Republic PM. 5. Tedious POS spam warfare and lagfests. (50 moons POS'd? ) 6. Bitter threads on CAOD. 7. Megablobbage with no intent to fight.
We are just missing 8-10, but they should be coming shortly: 8. Dev hax accusations. 9. Alt spies. 10. Bob pet accusations.
The longest-running war is irrevocably changed and I suspect broken. The hate is at an all-time high to where there is no turning back. At this point, both sides are going for a win-at-all-costs mentality. As soon as you turn that corner, you're no different than every other 0.0 war. It's just another war now, which is a damn shame. It used to be about having fun. There's nothing fun about 50 POSs, nothing.
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Derran
Minmatar Khumatari Holdings Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.06.02 23:04:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Garreck
Fight for your system. This forum bitterness needs to stop.
Sure. Paddington can take the 30,000 on the right, I'll take the 30,000 on the left.
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Derran
Minmatar Khumatari Holdings Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.06.02 23:06:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Verone
This is an RP conflict and the war between U'K and CVA has been, maybe with different names at the helm, going on for four years.
I think that ship sailed when they decided to use a weak game mechanic to gain control. It was around at that point that I just stopped caring.
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Major Stormer
Caldari Infinitus Odium
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Posted - 2007.06.02 23:10:00 -
[57]
Oh god Butter Dogs back.
Comon UK/CVA, i enjoy reading your in char banter, why would you post here of all crap places?
Its just a game. Get over yourselfs. |
Derran
Minmatar Khumatari Holdings Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.06.02 23:10:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Butter Dog
Originally by: Verone
Congratulations on ruining an important turning point in the history of Providence and what is in effect a FOUR YEAR LONG ARC due to your OOC bitterness, for just about everyone who's been involved.
I await the Butter Dog / O Thief Flaming spam with open arms and popcorn at the ready.
Oh, I don't know, you've done a pretty good job throwing around assumptions and accusations about a conflict you know precisely nothing about, that my intervention hardly seems required.
btw, we didnt POS spam you in 9UY the last time round, it was a quite different situation. In fact I don't think we put up any extra POS (maybe one or two). Hardly the same as this 44 POS fun-a-thon.
I rarely agree with anything Butter Dog says but I have to agree here. That conflict involved some of my favorite battles ever, my favorite one being one where a victory turned into a complete rout for my gang.
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Ehrine Ashbark
Lyrus Associates Betrayal Under Mayhem
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Posted - 2007.06.02 23:13:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Maggot
Actually there was. I was online and reading the Unite channel when CVA spammed 7 towers shortly before downtime. UK spammed back that afternoon. As a result, CVA had one more POS then UK at downtime.
Nope that is not correct at all. I saw that misinformation repeated a number of times through out the day.
Maggot, I mean no disrespect, but I rechecked my chatlogs from the time before I posted. CVA were POS spamming still at 10:00 and I was online till downtime. At nearly 11 UK and allies had reclaimed control of a gate, but not the system and thus hadn't started to spam back. As you'd have had to have anchored the towers by 10:00 to have onlined them by 11:00 to counter this I'm afraid they must have had more towers then you at downtime on the morning of the 28th. Admittedly, I was still half asleep having only just got up and online at 10ish, but that is how it read to me.
If I'm completely wrong on this I apologise.
Anyway, I must read our alliance forums to see what cunning plans we have to help you guys reclaim the station :)
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Derran
Minmatar Khumatari Holdings Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.06.02 23:22:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Hardin Just a few points to address here:
Regarding the claim that CVA don't wish to fight I would like to point out that Ushra'khan and friends should be just as capable at attacking our towers as we are at attacking theirs.
The fact is that this was their home system and the onus was on them to defend it. It seems that their idea of defend was to have BUM, Outbreak, Evoke and Chaos Incarnate fleets ready to jump on any CVA (and allies) Dreads hitting UK POS coming out of reinforced. That successfully worked for them once and we therefore adapted our tactics.
I think you are under the false assumption that the advantage lays with the defender and not the attacker under the current mechanic. Sure UK could have attacked your towers but who attacks these days when it automatically puts them at a disadvantage and you KNOW you are outnumbered? Except maybe me.
Originally by: Hardin However, the situation in 9UY had stalemated. Ushra'khan were not willing to take the offensive and similarly we were not willing to have our fleets ambushed by Titan + multiple Motherships in front of hostile POS (a pragmatic Amarrian approach ).
Or a tin foil hat approach. Whichever way you want to look at it.
Originally by: Hardin The errection of further towers by CVA was therefore done to encourage the Minmatars to take the offensive and give us the fight that their members seem to be demanding here.
You are joking, right? Attacking POSs has to be the absolute most boring part of EVE. I'd rather strap raw meat all over my body and dive into a pool of piranhas than sit in a dreadnaught bombarding a POS.
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