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Jarna
Amarr Eve University Ivy League
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Posted - 2007.06.02 22:14:00 -
[1]
Why does everyone whine about Cloaks. Even the advanced world in Star Trek didn't have the ability to detect cloaked ships.
You didn't see Captain Picard running off to Federation headquarters and asking them to nerf the cloak. He just lived with it.
However, I do want to ask one question about cloaking. What exactly is the mechanics/physics behind it? What makes it work? What keep sit from being seen on radar?
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NoNah
Marzipan Monkeys
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Posted - 2007.06.02 22:19:00 -
[2]
The day you see me running around in a pyjamas firing with an egg, by all means buff the cloak.
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Dave White
coracao ardente
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Posted - 2007.06.02 22:24:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Dave White on 02/06/2007 22:23:29
I thought Captain Picard always used a coherant tachyon emitter pulse energy photon flash cannon beam laser to uncloak ships?
Edit: Something like that anyway.
CORA. Killboard Personal Killboard |
tsilb
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Posted - 2007.06.02 22:26:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Jarna Why does everyone whine about Cloaks. Even the advanced world in Star Trek didn't have the ability to detect cloaked ships.
You didn't see Captain Picard running off to Federation headquarters and asking them to nerf the cloak. He just lived with it.
However, I do want to ask one question about cloaking. What exactly is the mechanics/physics behind it? What makes it work? What keep sit from being seen on radar?
Not true. Starfleet nerfed the cloak on the Pegasus, and tachyon detection nets were set up to detect Romulan intruders. Additionally, Captain Sisko assisted the Cardassian Central Command in detecting the Defiant's cloaking frequency through a series of focused Tachyon beams.
Another nerfed cloak was that of Star Trek V's Bird of Prey. If you'll recall, it could fire under cloak. No Bird of Prey since has been able to do that.
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Evelgrivion
Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.06.02 22:28:00 -
[5]
Star Trek VI, the Undiscovered Country. Watch that one, its all about h4xed databases, cloaking, and the cloak nerf by firing a gas tracking proton torpedo.
"Target that explosion and fire"
This isn't the signature you're looking for. |
Jarna
Amarr Eve University Ivy League
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Posted - 2007.06.02 22:33:00 -
[6]
Yeah, I do remember all that stuff about Tachyon stuff. But it wasn't a system you could just run on a ship. Usually you had to pull alot of system resources to get all that Tachyon stuff to work.
And of course stuff got "nerfed" on USS ships. They weren't barely supposed to have any.
But, what I was wanting to get at with my question was because all I've heard that EVE cloaking is is Light bending. Is this true? Or is there more to it than this?
Because if it is just light bending, you could easily detect a ship and wear, because bending light doesn't stop the mass from existing. It would still be detectable on radar type scans.
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ToxicFire
Phoenix Knights Dark Nebula Galactic Empire
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Posted - 2007.06.02 22:34:00 -
[7]
Edited by: ToxicFire on 02/06/2007 22:34:28
Originally by: tsilb
Originally by: Jarna Why does everyone whine about Cloaks. Even the advanced world in Star Trek didn't have the ability to detect cloaked ships.
You didn't see Captain Picard running off to Federation headquarters and asking them to nerf the cloak. He just lived with it.
However, I do want to ask one question about cloaking. What exactly is the mechanics/physics behind it? What makes it work? What keep sit from being seen on radar?
Not true. Starfleet nerfed the cloak on the Pegasus, and tachyon detection nets were set up to detect Romulan intruders. Additionally, Captain Sisko assisted the Cardassian Central Command in detecting the Defiant's cloaking frequency through a series of focused Tachyon beams.
Another nerfed cloak was that of Star Trek V's Bird of Prey. If you'll recall, it could fire under cloak. No Bird of Prey since has been able to do that.
That bird of prey was a one off experimental, Pegasus was prone to phasing the ship which ended up badly :P and in ST all forms of detecting a cloak have usually involved in penetrating some substance or detection grid, unlike eve which is just going to make cloaks appear using normal scanning methods.... in short pointless Sig removed as it lacks EVE-related content. Mail [email protected] if you have questions. -Hango
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rantag
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Posted - 2007.06.02 22:38:00 -
[8]
*places nerd cap on head*
here goes
in star trek they used:
tachyon field
the plasma made from the venting ports "undiscovered country they used it to lock on to kangs bird of prey"
motion tracking sensors as the dust and particals move around the ship
Gravatic sensor net
Antiproton beam
so they didnt nerf it it was always detectable you just got to have the right kit!!!!!!
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Evelgrivion
Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.06.02 22:41:00 -
[9]
It was General Chang, not Kang
This isn't the signature you're looking for. |
Spy4Hire
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Posted - 2007.06.02 22:41:00 -
[10]
In ST TOS they could detect cloaks (usually visually, by scanning stellar occlusion).
In ST TNG they could detect cloaks using a wide variety of methods, typically by the tachyon radiation that the cloak affected/created/pinged it with.
In ST DS9 they could detect cloaks by the above methods, even the advanced Jem'Hdar (sp?) cloaking tech.
In ST Voyager they could detect cloaks.
Even *gasp* in ST Enterprise they could detect cloaks... not that such things were in particular use as a plot device in the show.
So... yes, even in ST they could detect cloaks, but...
but...
BUT!
They had to be looking for them! It's not that they could just sorta wander by and say 'oh, check it out, cloaked ship!' It took knowing that there was a cloaked vessel out there first, then figuring out what tech they wanted to use to find the thing.
So, in Eve, there definately should be methods by which you can detect a cloaked ship once you know it's there. Be it the mundane simplicity of seeing how the stars shift when a cloak passed between you and it, or by more advanced techniques. Not to say that it should be at all easy, or quick, but definately doable.
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Major Stormer
Caldari Infinitus Odium
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Posted - 2007.06.02 22:58:00 -
[11]
Originally by: NoNah The day you see me running around in a pyjamas firing with an egg, by all means buff the cloak.
As a trek fan, that made me laugh thanks
Its just a game. Get over yourselfs. |
tsilb
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Posted - 2007.06.02 23:00:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Spy4Hire They had to be looking for them! It's not that they could just sorta wander by and say 'oh, check it out, cloaked ship!' It took knowing that there was a cloaked vessel out there first, then figuring out what tech they wanted to use to find the thing.
So, in Eve, there definately should be methods by which you can detect a cloaked ship once you know it's there. Be it the mundane simplicity of seeing how the stars shift when a cloak passed between you and it, or by more advanced techniques. Not to say that it should be at all easy, or quick, but definately doable.
Okay, so we add some Medium-Slot "Tachyon Detection Matrices", the strength of which would directly counter a cloak's strength. It would come in two flavors: Short-range (Highly accurate, out to 100km or so), and Long-range (Gives you a rough idea where to look, from 100km to a few AU's).
Sound good?
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Jarna
Amarr Eve University Ivy League
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Posted - 2007.06.02 23:01:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Spy4Hire In ST TOS they could detect cloaks (usually visually, by scanning stellar occlusion).
In ST TNG they could detect cloaks using a wide variety of methods, typically by the tachyon radiation that the cloak affected/created/pinged it with.
In ST DS9 they could detect cloaks by the above methods, even the advanced Jem'Hdar (sp?) cloaking tech.
In ST Voyager they could detect cloaks.
Even *gasp* in ST Enterprise they could detect cloaks... not that such things were in particular use as a plot device in the show.
So... yes, even in ST they could detect cloaks, but...
but...
BUT!
They had to be looking for them! It's not that they could just sorta wander by and say 'oh, check it out, cloaked ship!' It took knowing that there was a cloaked vessel out there first, then figuring out what tech they wanted to use to find the thing.
So, in Eve, there definately should be methods by which you can detect a cloaked ship once you know it's there. Be it the mundane simplicity of seeing how the stars shift when a cloak passed between you and it, or by more advanced techniques. Not to say that it should be at all easy, or quick, but definately doable.
I agree with Spy. I don't think detecting cloaks by any means should be easy, but it should be doable.
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tsilb
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Posted - 2007.06.02 23:07:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Jarna I agree with Spy. I don't think detecting cloaks by any means should be easy, but it should be doable.
I'll tell you right now, the only thing that really bugs me is when someone can shoot a few cruise missiles from 150km out and recloak after we start approaching him. A battleship doesn't stand a chance of finding the bastard and getting within range.
A good workaround for this, of course, would be to let us enter a low-warp for distances of 100-1000km, or to let us right-click on a ship and set a bookmark so we could warp away and back. Real-life spaceships could do that.
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Nox Solaris
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Posted - 2007.06.02 23:11:00 -
[15]
Originally by: tsilb
Originally by: Jarna I agree with Spy. I don't think detecting cloaks by any means should be easy, but it should be doable.
I'll tell you right now, the only thing that really bugs me is when someone can shoot a few cruise missiles from 150km out and recloak after we start approaching him. A battleship doesn't stand a chance of finding the bastard and getting within range.
A good workaround for this, of course, would be to let us enter a low-warp for distances of 100-1000km, or to let us right-click on a ship and set a bookmark so we could warp away and back. Real-life spaceships could do that.
Currently he can cloak... and can't do much else. He can't even warp away. And unless he uncloaks his missiles won't do piddly. Also, a full salvo of cruise missiles from a bomber (Manticore)... won't even kill a T1 frig reliably if it has even a modest tank. So don't worry about the plinker unless he has a mob of friends.
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Ansuru Starlancer
The Phoenix Rising Vigilance Infinitas
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Posted - 2007.06.02 23:20:00 -
[16]
Odd, I recall seeing several episodes where they spotted cloaked ships, either finding some odd emission, using optical scans, or in at least one episode, a device that outright looking through the cloak as if it wasn't even there, leaving the opponents completely unsuspecting that their target was on to them and ready to blast them to pieces...
I wish I could comprehend why people whine so hard any time someone suggests balancing cloaks. It's not as if a slow probe that takes a while to find you is going to suddenly make you visible to everyone who pops onto your grid...if the devs meant to make them visible to the probes that can scan a person down in a couple minutes, it would be understandable, but that's so ludicrous that nobody with an ounce of sense could believe for an instant that that was the plan.
Cloaks, as they are, are an invulnerability shield for anyone looking to mess with people, just as bad in their own ways as were the nanoships and the wcs ships of the past. In fact, I find afk recons more of a pain in the ass than I ever found a stababond to be. I also say that a nerf to cloaks letting them eventually be found would make me MORE likely to use them, not less. ;)
Either shut up about cloaks being fine as they are, or start asking to bring back the old speed fittings and reduce the penalties for using WCS...at least get some consistency into your insanity.
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Astasia Orian
Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.06.02 23:22:00 -
[17]
Nobody in StarTrek had to deal with sweatshop farmers called hailove1334 in every bloody system.
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Ansuru Starlancer
The Phoenix Rising Vigilance Infinitas
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Posted - 2007.06.02 23:29:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Jarna Yeah, I do remember all that stuff about Tachyon stuff. But it wasn't a system you could just run on a ship. Usually you had to pull alot of system resources to get all that Tachyon stuff to work.
And of course stuff got "nerfed" on USS ships. They weren't barely supposed to have any.
But, what I was wanting to get at with my question was because all I've heard that EVE cloaking is is Light bending. Is this true? Or is there more to it than this?
Because if it is just light bending, you could easily detect a ship and wear, because bending light doesn't stop the mass from existing. It would still be detectable on radar type scans.
Radar's a part of the same electromagnetic spectrum as visible light, so that really depends on how wide a band is being "bent." ;)
Now, looking for minute disruptions in gravity that are unaccompanied by an object to account for them might work :p Of course, I think I've also read that there are natural fluctuations in gravity, so you might find yourself getting some false positives with that method. ;)
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Ansuru Starlancer
The Phoenix Rising Vigilance Infinitas
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Posted - 2007.06.02 23:30:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Astasia Orian Nobody in StarTrek had to deal with sweatshop farmers called hailove1334 in every bloody system.
Touche.
I want to hunt down some of those macroratters soooo badly...
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Anatolius
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2007.06.02 23:58:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Astasia Orian Nobody in StarTrek had to deal with sweatshop farmers called hailove1334 in every bloody system.
I recall an episode of Voyager (ugh, I know) where the Voyager-type EMH's were relegated to doing manual labor on some mining colony, actually.
"If God be for us, whom can be against us?" |
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Blue Pixie
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Posted - 2007.06.03 01:27:00 -
[21]
You're all wrong. In Star Trek, all they had to do was glance at a chat tab to determine a hostile was in their system.
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Maya Rkell
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2007.06.03 01:33:00 -
[22]
Thing is, Jarna, cloaking ships in Trek didn't sacrifice much firepower for that cloak either..
//Maya |
Frug
Zenithal Harvest
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Posted - 2007.06.03 01:39:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Jarna Why does everyone whine about Cloaks. Even the advanced world in Star Trek didn't have the ability to detect cloaked ships.
You didn't see Captain Picard running off to Federation headquarters and asking them to nerf the cloak. He just lived with it.
However, I do want to ask one question about cloaking. What exactly is the mechanics/physics behind it? What makes it work? What keep sit from being seen on radar?
You need to read up on your star trek trivia. There have been so many times they've found cute and clever ways to detect cloaks, it's almost a joke.
As for the science of cloaks... Who knows, but eve science needs a LOT of work. It's a mess.
- - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Hey, my marbles |
Tortun Nahme
Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.06.03 01:42:00 -
[24]
easiest way to spot cloak in star trek?
Make a vulcan tell jokes over an open comm line until they decloak to blow you up
also, you can detect cloak in nearly all the ST games as well but it takes effort and you still suffer from reduced accuracy vs them
Real turtles tank armor. Real men fly Pink.
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Louis DelaBlanche
Cosmic Odyssey YouWhat
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Posted - 2007.06.03 02:06:00 -
[25]
Course when Kirk or Piccard entered a solar system; they usually had to do more then just glance in local to see if there was a Romulan face with a big red square next to it .
That being said. some way to bust cloakers; at least the non cov op cloakers; will be awsome.
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Zoea
Minmatar Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2007.06.03 02:07:00 -
[26]
look at it this way
they'll have to fire all those cloaked raven isk farmers we keep hearing about.
right?
-=-=-=-==-=--=-=-=--=-=--==-=--¼=-==--=-=-=--==-=--=-=-=-=-=-==-=-
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the blender
the Gentleman Loser
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Posted - 2007.06.03 02:33:00 -
[27]
People should nose around the Item database exports somtime.
http://eve.coldfront.net/db/item/Cloak+Destabilization+Pulse+I
There's a blueprint in the database as well so it could well be somthing we see live on the sever sometime soon.
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Sally Aventa
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Posted - 2007.06.03 02:36:00 -
[28]
cloaks are nerfed? when and what is done to it? enlighten me plz, are cloak ships detectable now?
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Sally Aventa
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Posted - 2007.06.03 02:41:00 -
[29]
and one more thing, the devs should play starfleet command III, they could take pointers on how ship battles are done and design lol.
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Taran Summers
The Merovingians
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Posted - 2007.06.03 02:44:00 -
[30]
That tachyon detection grid took 23 ships to pull off. If CCP wants to put in a ganged module that required it be running on 20 ships, ganged, in the same system, simultaneous, to be able to find a cloaked ship. I have absolutely no problem with that. |
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