EVE Search - (#16 - 2007.05) BMBE Shareholder Report

Originally by: Rthor
It is sad that mods have not gotten to you yet.

They are never far from wherever I post. Been like that for years which is why every warning I get is that much closer to a lifetime ban. Mind you I've rarely gotten them because I contribute.

Shall we discuss this thread, Son whined and moaned, I suggested elsewhere, You came in (for whatever reason), and things have been batted back and forth between myself and you two.

Of course I have some understanding of Son's position even if I think he's lost perspective. Why you seem to like taunting me? I guess you are still sore from that warning you got when you trolled my first IPO thread. Some wounds never heal I guess and you want to see if I'll join you in getting them. Who knows. More importantly, who cares.

And yet another post count +1 for you and nada, zip, zero actual content added. Why am I not surprised. You might want to try providing some justification for your position instead of banging keys in some wild hope of finding one.

But Ray had the right idea, I guess I should dismiss, and ignore, you as a fool no matter how much your kind of diatribe grates my nerves. Oh well, live and learn.

And to properly disclose things: I own 1 share of BMBE. 1 total. I have no dealings with BMBE, Big, or any principals involved with them. In fact my corp once applied to the Fountain Alliance and was rejected for reasons I think was rather specious at best. Considering where the Fountain Alliance is today I feel my opinion of their decision making process more than justified.

And I hate, absolutely hate, slander. Having been made victim to character assassination by this community in the past has only sharpened my hatred of such tactics when employed.

Until you can prove, within reasonable doubt, that there has been some wrong doing by BMBE... you are just trying to slander them. Plain and simple.

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Author	Topic
Rthor Gallente Smugglers Inc.	Posted - 2007.06.07 02:17:00 - [31] Originally by: Shar Tegral Originally by: Rthor I would rather say that 10 ideas are not valid than find one valid idea that disagrees with me. Coming from the forum troll... I'm not in the least bit surprised at your lack of moral fiber. Gladly the only decision within your realm is whether or not to continue posting drivel. Sadly, you are predictable even in that. First, nobody can claim that I took their money and lost it. So my moral character is quite unassailable especially in this forum. Second, if you do not get my comment go read what TS wrote a bit earlier in this thread about 10 innocent people and then you might understand it.
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2007.06.07 03:07:00 - [32] Originally by: Rthor First, nobody can claim that I took their money and lost it. So my moral character is quite unassailable especially in this forum. That you can equate this into moral invulnerability of some fashion only further proves my point of your nature. Loss is not theft. And only juveniles believe that pointing out error in someone else proves them to be superior. Originally by: Rthor Second, if you do not get my comment go read what TS wrote [snip] I've personally enjoyed your flavorless commentary as well as watched you share it with so many others. So I don't need to get the context of your trolling. You are 5% **** and 90% wind. Your only redeeming quality is that sometimes, every once in a while, you bend that drama-bomb magpie-flapping me-me-me mind of yours to crafting something worthwhile. I can only hope, for the sake of those around you, that you'll grow out of whatever form of psychosis grips you. Till then, BMBE did good this month. Got anything worth saying about that? More importantly, is it worth reading? The Eve-Online forums may not have invented whining, but they sure have perfected it. ElweSingollo> Eve is P v P not P v GM.
Rthor Gallente Smugglers Inc.	Posted - 2007.06.07 13:25:00 - [33] Shar if you have a problem with me make a thread and I will respond to you there. This is BMBE thread and it is no place to troll me personally. You have said that I write "drivel" that I am "juvenile," that I have "low moral fibre," etc. I am not your punching bag.
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2007.06.07 13:50:00 - [34] Originally by: Rthor I am not your punching bag. I shall try to remember your tender feelings the next time you decide to jump in and dramatize unasked for. There is the phrase, "Pot calling the kettle black." Don't troll and people won't call you one. Besides a thread about you is superfluous. You are not that worthwhile or interesting. You offer nothing, bring nothing, and apparently do nothing. If not for the fact that your insinuations should not be allowed to stand... I'd not waste this much time on you. The Eve-Online forums may not have invented whining, but they sure have perfected it. ElweSingollo> Eve is P v P not P v GM.
Hjorten XanCom	Posted - 2007.06.07 18:03:00 - [35] Originally by: Ray McCormack Well, anywhere between 2.5b and 3.5b as displayed by the dividend amounts for the last six months below : DEC 2,481,280,000 JAN 3,538,240,000 FEB 2,913,108,600 MAR 3,119,294,000 APR 2,778,252,200 MAY 2,641,355,000 Well done gentlemen. Keep up the good work.
SonOfAGhost Minmatar Minmatar Munitions and Tactical Assets Repository	Posted - 2007.06.07 20:11:00 - [36] Originally by: Ionia There really is no need to have a policy of disclosing the names of defaulters. In the original skiff scam case, you could justify it because it was obviously an intentional act Precisely. I don't think anyone has suggested disclosing the names of defaulters. We all know honest players will do what they can to repay but things don't always go to plan. The problem is with BMBE extending the policy to obvious theft and thus becoming criminal themselves. That is not, and never will be, acceptable in a public corporation. The rubbish must indeed stop, the truth MUST come out. Dragging on the scandal because they care more about keeping a thief happy than the market in general, or their shareholders specifically, just doesn't make sense. Lag? GTFOOJ!
SonOfAGhost Minmatar Minmatar Munitions and Tactical Assets Repository	Posted - 2007.06.07 20:44:00 - [37] Originally by: Shar Tegral Originally by: Rthor I am not your punching bag. I shall try to remember your tender feelings the next time you decide to jump in and dramatize unasked for. There is the phrase, "Pot calling the kettle black." Don't troll and people won't call you one. Besides a thread about you is superfluous. You are not that worthwhile or interesting. You offer nothing, bring nothing, and apparently do nothing. If not for the fact that your insinuations should not be allowed to stand... I'd not waste this much time on you. I don't know what's gone between you two in the past but I don't see anything from Rthor in this thread that could be construed as trolling. He's been civil and on-topic this round, un-like yourself. Though we'd probably be worried and about you and maybe even disappointed if you started being civil now And no BMBE did not do good this month. They continued to withold important information, that's bad. Financially they only did 2.6% of issue price, that's OK at best. Just because they've done worse before doesn't make it good. The only good thing is they've turned around. I'm optimistic things will continue to improve financially, but the nature of the management compensation makes it almost impossible for them to ever have a truly good return. I'm not against that, shareholders new up front, just making an observation on the limitations resulting. Lag? GTFOOJ!
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2007.06.07 22:43:00 - [38] Originally by: SonOfAGhost The rubbish must indeed stop, the truth MUST come out. Okay, please tell us how you will MAKE that happen. The Eve-Online forums may not have invented whining, but they sure have perfected it. ElweSingollo> Eve is P v P not P v GM.
Verite Rendition Caldari AUS Corporation CORE.	Posted - 2007.06.08 09:54:00 - [39] Perhaps I'm missing something here, but what good is issuing bonds if it's just costing me money in the end(in this case, it would have been 900mil)? ---- AUS Corp Lead Megalomanic
Ray McCormack BIG	Posted - 2007.06.08 10:02:00 - [40] Originally by: Verite Rendition Perhaps I'm missing something here, but what good is issuing bonds if it's just costing me money in the end(in this case, it would have been 900mil)? It's making you money. It allows the BMBE to loan out ISK it doesn't have and make profit on it. \| All Current Tech II BPO Auctions \| BMBE ISK Loans \|

Baun 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.06.08 15:48:00 - [41] Originally by: Ray McCormack Originally by: Verite Rendition Perhaps I'm missing something here, but what good is issuing bonds if it's just costing me money in the end(in this case, it would have been 900mil)? It's making you money. It allows the BMBE to loan out ISK it doesn't have and make profit on it. Can you detail how much money is made on the average loan after the interest is paid back to the bond holders. Bassically, for every 1 billion isk loaned out above the current isk reserves how much money do the shareholders make as a whole? The Enemy's Gate is Down
Ray McCormack BIG	Posted - 2007.06.08 16:15:00 - [42] Originally by: Baun Can you detail how much money is made on the average loan after the interest is paid back to the bond holders. Bassically, for every 1 billion isk loaned out above the current isk reserves how much money do the shareholders make as a whole? It depends on what interest we loan this extra ISK out at. Usually it's more than double the bond interest. It depends on how quickly we repay the bonds. If we repay the bonds after 1 week, the remaining weeks the loan runs for will see the BMBE receiving all the interest. At worst the BMBE is making 1% or 10m per billion per week. At best it's making 4.5% or 45m per billion per week. Average is probably 2.25%. \| All Current Tech II BPO Auctions \| BMBE ISK Loans \|
Serenity Steele Rearden Steele	Posted - 2007.06.08 21:34:00 - [43] Originally by: Hjorten DEC 2,481,280,000 JAN 3,538,240,000 FEB 2,913,108,600 MAR 3,119,294,000 APR 2,778,252,200 MAY 2,641,355,000 Is that over 100bn of shares? ie. 2.4% to 3.5% return Eve Strategic Maps - Outpost Alert - Sovereign Systems - Alliance Rank
TornSoul BIG Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.06.09 14:25:00 - [44] Edited by: TornSoul on 09/06/2007 14:27:32 Yes it's over 100B ISK shares (or 101.440.000.000 ISK to be excact), but infact 30B less working capital (due to the 30B defaulted loan) BIG Lottery [url
SonOfAGhost Minmatar Minmatar Munitions and Tactical Assets Repository	Posted - 2007.06.09 14:52:00 - [45] Originally by: Shar Tegral Okay, please tell us how you will MAKE that happen. Unfortunately the only 3 people who can make it happen are all inclined to dishonesty. All I can do is constantly remind them that helping thieves is not acceptable behaviour when running a public corp. I hope that when they realize there is only one way for the issue to ever be closed they'll finally do the right thing, tell the truth and apologize to their investors and the market for making things worse for so long after for no valid reason. There is on reaonable doubt that it was theft. There is no reaonable doubt that (so far) they are choosing to be accessories to the crime and thus just as guilty. Lag? GTFOOJ!
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2007.06.09 15:09:00 - [46] Originally by: SonOfAGhost All I can do is constantly remind them that helping thieves is not acceptable behaviour when running a public corp. As you say, you will repeatedly call BMBE thieves and liars, contrary to any evidence, at every opportunity to force them to go against their stated code of ethics, or choice of play style (whatever), simply because you say they should. Odd sort of self rationalization but it's still called griefing. BMBE is not some scammer/loser who you are protecting the public from. I think you may have lost perspective on this crusade you have taken upon yourself. And since, as you agree, there really is nothing you can do to actually make the situation change... does your actions not become redundant trolling? Especially with your unfounded accusations attached? I'm just saying, get a grip. You might be over the borders a bit here. And, sadly, there is no law on what is mandatory of a public company. Especially one that is now closed to public influence. The Eve-Online forums may not have invented whining, but they sure have perfected it. ElweSingollo> Eve is P v P not P v GM.
Ray McCormack BIG	Posted - 2007.06.09 15:17:00 - [47] Originally by: SonOfAGhost Unfortunately the only 3 people who can make it happen are all inclined to dishonesty. Insulting my integrity will only achieve me dismissing your arguments out of hand as those of an ignorant fool. And I don't want to dismiss your arguments out of hand, so don't insult my integrity. \| Researched Capital Component BPOs Auction \| BMBE ISK Loans \|
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.06.09 15:26:00 - [48] hmm, looks like I need to get a new street fighter pic up.
Rthor Gallente Smugglers Inc.	Posted - 2007.06.09 16:50:00 - [49] Originally by: Shar Tegral Originally by: SonOfAGhost All I can do is constantly remind them that helping thieves is not acceptable behaviour when running a public corp. As you say, you will repeatedly call BMBE thieves and liars, contrary to any evidence, at every opportunity to force them to go against their stated code of ethics, or choice of play style (whatever), simply because you say they should. Odd sort of self rationalization but it's still called griefing. BMBE is not some scammer/loser who you are protecting the public from. I think you may have lost perspective on this crusade you have taken upon yourself. And since, as you agree, there really is nothing you can do to actually make the situation change... does your actions not become redundant trolling? Especially with your unfounded accusations attached? I'm just saying, get a grip. You might be over the borders a bit here. And, sadly, there is no law on what is mandatory of a public company. Especially one that is now closed to public influence. Evidence is there. Just because you keep repeating that there is no evidence that does not make this evidence of wrongdoing disappear. And anyhow why are you so much in these threads? You have contributed nothing to them unless your purpose is to provide forum attack services to BMBE. All you do is attack anybody who has a question, create straw man arguments and demolish them and congratulate yourself on being so great. You insult people, accuse them of trolling and griefing when all that is being done is people are asking BMBE (not you?) questions and these questions are either ignored by TS or are not answered in a way that justifies the reputation level that he thinks he has or should have. It is sad that mods have not gotten to you yet. And since you are probably on wiki looking up "straw man," go look up "groupthink" also because this is what the Eve market suffers from. Heck let me help you: A straw man argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position. To "set up a straw man" or "set up a straw-man argument" is to create a position that is easy to refute, then attribute that position to the opponent. A straw-man argument can be a successful rhetorical technique (that is, it may succeed in persuading people) but it is in fact a misleading fallacy, because the opponent's actual argument has not been refuted. Groupthink is a type of thought exhibited by group members who try to minimize conflict and reach consensus without critically testing, analyzing, and evaluating ideas. During Groupthink, members of the group avoid promoting viewpoints outside the comfort zone of consensus thinking. A variety of motives for this may exist such as a desire to avoid being seen as foolish, or a desire to avoid embarrassing or angering other members of the group. Groupthink may cause groups to make hasty, irrational decisions, where individual doubts are set aside, for fear of upsetting the groupÆs balance. The term is frequently used pejoratively, with hindsight.
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2007.06.09 17:04:00 - [50] Originally by: Rthor It is sad that mods have not gotten to you yet. They are never far from wherever I post. Been like that for years which is why every warning I get is that much closer to a lifetime ban. Mind you I've rarely gotten them because I contribute. Shall we discuss this thread, Son whined and moaned, I suggested elsewhere, You came in (for whatever reason), and things have been batted back and forth between myself and you two. Of course I have some understanding of Son's position even if I think he's lost perspective. Why you seem to like taunting me? I guess you are still sore from that warning you got when you trolled my first IPO thread. Some wounds never heal I guess and you want to see if I'll join you in getting them. Who knows. More importantly, who cares. And yet another post count +1 for you and nada, zip, zero actual content added. Why am I not surprised. You might want to try providing some justification for your position instead of banging keys in some wild hope of finding one. But Ray had the right idea, I guess I should dismiss, and ignore, you as a fool no matter how much your kind of diatribe grates my nerves. Oh well, live and learn. And to properly disclose things: I own 1 share of BMBE. 1 total. I have no dealings with BMBE, Big, or any principals involved with them. In fact my corp once applied to the Fountain Alliance and was rejected for reasons I think was rather specious at best. Considering where the Fountain Alliance is today I feel my opinion of their decision making process more than justified. And I hate, absolutely hate, slander. Having been made victim to character assassination by this community in the past has only sharpened my hatred of such tactics when employed. Until you can prove, within reasonable doubt, that there has been some wrong doing by BMBE... you are just trying to slander them. Plain and simple. The Eve-Online forums may not have invented whining, but they sure have perfected it. ElweSingollo> Eve is P v P not P v GM.

Rthor Gallente Smugglers Inc.	Posted - 2007.06.09 17:24:00 - [51] Originally by: Shar Tegral I guess you are still sore from that warning you got when you trolled my first IPO thread. Some wounds never heal I guess and you want to see if I'll join you in getting them. Who knows. More importantly, who cares. You have said this a few times. Since it is an example of how you behave let me address it. You claim that I got a warning because if I did then it proves your further claim that I am a troll because the moderators agreed with you that I trolled your thread. But I did not troll your thread and I do not believe that I got a warning for it. And even if I did I would have only gotten it because of your lawyering. But most importantly even if I did get a warning how would you know this? If I did get a warning at that time, and you knew about it, is it smart to admit to having this ability to know that somebody has gotten a warning after you complained? I am pretty sure that mods normally would not tell you whether the person you turned in got a warning. And so either you have improper contact with mods and know this to be true or you do not know this to be true but keep repeating it, you oh great Shar Tegral who never tells a lie and is whiter than the Pope.
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2007.06.09 17:27:00 - [52] Do you have a point other than trying to pick a fight? I'm dying to hear it. The Eve-Online forums may not have invented whining, but they sure have perfected it. ElweSingollo> Eve is P v P not P v GM.
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.06.09 18:40:00 - [53] Edited by: Ricdic on 09/06/2007 18:38:56 My Thoughts On The Matter
SonOfAGhost Minmatar Minmatar Munitions and Tactical Assets Repository	Posted - 2007.06.09 23:28:00 - [54] Originally by: Ray McCormack so don't insult my integrity. All I have ever asked is that BMBE demonstrate some integrity by doing the right thing. I have not insulted your integrity, yet, but then neither have I seen evidence of it, yet. I gather others have, this is why I've tried to be as sympathetic to your position as possible, but my limited conversations with both of you over the past year and a bit have not convinced me either way. The issue at hand is changing that however. What words should I have used regarding individuals that publicly state they will not tell the truth? 'Dishonest' seemed to fit. 'Inclined to' because I'm still optimistic one of you will eventually see the the only reasonable course of action. That there is absolutely no reason to protect a thief (not a client). Show some spine, do the right thing. Lag? GTFOOJ!

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