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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Sparta Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.06 10:37:00 -
[301]
Originally by: Wiggly Jiggly
Originally by: Dukayn Edited by: Dukayn on 06/06/2007 07:23:29
Originally by: Wiggly Jiggly For 10 YEARS no individual has been allowed to benefit from CCP intelectual property.
http://www.amazon.ca/Eve-Online-Genesis-Official-Strategy/dp/0761542434
Originally by: Wiggly Jiggly no individual
You never did answer my question, by the by. What is the difference between a 3rd party consisting of an unsigned author having a book printed by CCP's publisher-of-choice, and a third party consisting of an author working for one of the major publishing houses?
Or to put it another way- what is the difference between a publishing giant (who has nothing to do with CCP) getting permission to print a strategy guide (quite probably including maps) and sell it for a profit, and an individual (who has nothing to do with CCP) getting permission to print a map book and sell it for a profit?
Or to put it a third way, are you more at ease with a large corporation (who has nothing to do with CCP) with a history of selling over priced and low quality books gaining permission to publish a strategy guide, than you are with an individual gaining similar permission to publish the fruits of their own individual hard work in a fashion that might make them a profit?
Or to sum it up in a fourth way- are you a capitalist, a socialist, or an anarchist? A capitalist would say "I don't give a damn who publishes what, as long as the quality is high and the price is right". An anarchist would say "The ownership of any information by any party is illogical and immoral, so there's no reason I should have to pay for anything". A socialist would say "The work of any individual should be rewarded proportionate to the effort put in to the project" (and seeing as a publishing giant like Prima pays the author a tiny fraction of the total profits, with the rest going to share holders, executives, and all manner of bureaucratic black holes, paying the independent author direct is by far preferable).
Not really sure how else to ask the question... --------
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Sian Tairnesh
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.06.06 10:59:00 -
[302]
Guys, why do you keep feeding the troll?
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Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Sparta Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.06 10:59:00 -
[303]
Originally by: Sian Tairnesh Guys, why do you keep feeding the troll?
Funsies? --------
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Sian Tairnesh
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.06.06 11:01:00 -
[304]
Edited by: Sian Tairnesh on 06/06/2007 11:00:46
Originally by: Patch86
Originally by: Sian Tairnesh Guys, why do you keep feeding the troll?
Funsies?
Aw... Well, ok. I admit that if I hadn't got so much work to do I'd join. But still, someone had to ask The QuestionÖ.
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Irongut
M'8'S Frontal Impact
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Posted - 2007.06.06 11:25:00 -
[305]
Originally by: Wiggly Jiggly
Serenity book is the exact same thing as EvEMon.
EvEMon takes in game information and presents it in a easy to understand simple fashion. Serenitys Map book takes in game information and presents it in a easy to understand and simple fashion.
Both provide advantages to the EvE player for using withone difference. One is free, the other can only be obtain by payment. This disparity is WRONG.
Neither provides any great advantage to the player. The map book is more of a nice coffee table book or bathroom read than a great advantage. A way to work out what you're going to do without having to be sat at the PC 24/7. And EveMon tells you nothing you can't find out in other ways.
Personally I plan my skill training using a pen and a peice of paper. ZOMG! EVE players should be banned from using paper, it gives an unfair advantage!
Originally by: Wiggly Jiggly
Many claim that Serenity deserves to 'get paid' for his work. I disagree entirely because there is limited if any original input into his work. It is meaerly a collection of in game maps and icons for interesting point of reference. All of which are found in game and NOT his creation.
By this logic we shouldn't pay for maps in RL. They are merely a collection of images of real hills, roads and motorways for interesting point of reference with limited if any original work. All of which are actually found in RL (OMG!) and NOT their creation.
Originally by: Wiggly Jiggly
Kudos for putting it all together in a spiral book Serenity... but I'd rather print off the regions I frequent myself. But you don't give us that choice. We have to PAY for the whole thing like it is some coffee table reading materiel.
Now you're starting to get the point. It's coffee table material for the EVE pilot who has everything.
Originally by: Wiggly Jiggly
It gives an unfair advatage to those with the book, and CCP should NOT allow it to be sold. Period.
But then you go and lose it again. Hmmm maybe I should start a thread asking to have you banned coz you use EveMon and I don't and it's an unfair advantage.
Originally by: Wiggly Jiggly
Especially when every other third party developer that put together a tool did so without seeking a 'payday' at the expense of game balance.
You really can't compare software, especially open source like EveMon, and a book. As a programmer myself I can tell you part of the reason the guys who write tools like EveMon do so is to learn. They may not be making any money out of it but they're learning more about programming, data structures, UI, etc which will help them make money in their jobs and they're having fun. Yes, programmers do it for fun. Plus they don't have to spend money on manufacturing and distribution like you do with a book, most programmers already have some form of webspace they can use to host the project.
At the end of the day you're a question mark. Why are you so bothered about the EVE community? You haven't even been part of it long enough to get a forum portrait. If you had you'd know that Serenity has been working on this book for a very long time and afaik you're the only person who has expressed these omfg the sky is falling opinions. Or is your main hiding behind the anonymity of a freshly created alt?
My software never has bugs. It just develops random features.
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Ozstar
Naughty 40
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Posted - 2007.06.06 11:34:00 -
[306]
Edited by: Ozstar on 06/06/2007 11:33:06 I may buy two copies now, just to **** Wiggly off.
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Malaan Tabfassh
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Posted - 2007.06.06 11:43:00 -
[307]
I wouldn't buy a book ... if there would be 2x2 meters poster of the EVE universe in the CCP shop :). Anyway, book sounds good. When you don't want to buy it, you don't have to.
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Iyanah
Minmatar Mining Munitions and Mayhem R i s e
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Posted - 2007.06.06 11:49:00 -
[308]
Edited by: Iyanah on 06/06/2007 11:51:10
Originally by: PostWithYourMain Nobody would pay money for it, case closed.
exactly.
besides, merchandising is pretty common for online games. hell eve already has t-shirts, caps, mugs, etc. it was only a matter of time before other companies started writing strategy guides, or some such nonsense.
this kind of thing happens, and seems to be growing in popularity. i can't see how it could possibly be a "threat" to anything but the wallets of stupid people.
EDIT: as an addition, i would state that things like eve mon, etc would never end up requiring payment. why?
because someone else would just make and distribute it, or somethign similar for free. people are all the same: if they don't HAVE to pay for something, they won't. ========================================== Iy
please remember: I AM a sarcastic ******* and nothing i say has ever represented the thoughts or feelings of my corp, alliance, or anyone really. read |
Maglorre
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Posted - 2007.06.06 11:59:00 -
[309]
Originally by: Ozstar Edited by: Ozstar on 06/06/2007 11:33:06 I may buy two copies now, just to **** Wiggly off.
Hmmm, maybe Wiggly is an alt of Serenity, posting contrary and inflammatory trollage in an attempt to get people to do just that...
T2 Tinfoil Hats anyone?
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Trak Cranker
Feral Tendency Ratel Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.06 12:52:00 -
[310]
Edited by: Trak Cranker on 06/06/2007 12:51:30 The OP seriously need to separate his two issues with this.
The first being that its against the EULA and CCP allowing for exlusive rights to another individual. 1) Its not against the EULA. The EULA covers content of the game. Not information found in the game. If you keep claiming that the EULA covers this, you are either, as others have said already, a troll or lacking basic reading or comprehension skills.
2) Saying that CCP has denied this option for other people for 10 years is a blatantly obvious a wrong statement as MM publishing is publishing EON - and that idea was born from them being players too. And even then you have no prrof that they have denied this option to everyone in the past 10 years. The fact that CCP selects to facilitate the sale is irrelevant. They have allowed a second party to create and profit from a product that is Eve related.
You are so far of base, truth and understanding here, that you degrade any other claims you have regarding this.
That being whether its a good direction for the community. I am not about to agree with you here, but at least thats a valid discussion.
As someone else have pointed out, there are a ton of factors out there that can improve your Eve performance - quite a few of them way more costly and way more enabling, than what this book will go for and do for any potential owner. So before you start shooting at the Strategic Maps, perhaps you should convince CCP that all players should play on standardized equipment and bandwidth?
In Serenitys case its a question of him doing the book and selling it - or not doing the book, I would presume. In that case I like the option. Being able to buy it is better than it not being there.
It is perhaps another matter if this starts happening to tools, that by somewhat rightful claim should be in the game. Such a claim would be hard to prove though - as it would have to cover a defect in the game, not a nice to have.
But until then, you should just be grateful for the free tools that are made available and recognize that them being so is totally up the creators.
I know Elissen, and I have an inkling of an idea as to how much time he puts into the JumpPlanner. If he somewhere down the line got a construction set up in agreement with CCP that he could charge a reasonable amount for for it, I would not deem that unfair or unwarranted. Its not his intention though, and you can just be thankful for that.
And that kind of attitude is way to prevalent, to be concerned that a deal between CCP and Serenity about publishing the book for a small profit either way, would make the community available tools slowly dwindle into pay as you go.
First of all there are nnot many tools out there, that does not have counterparts. And they are all build on information that is freely available.
Personally I have had the Strategic Maps prototype in my hands. And its a bloody sweet piece of work. Not something I would own to gain an advantage. But because its pretty and Eve related. Definately buying.
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Maya Rkell
Third Grade Ergonomics
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Posted - 2007.06.06 13:10:00 -
[311]
Originally by: Wiggly Jiggly
Originally by: Patch86
Originally by: Maya Rkell Yes, just making a point...
Interesting stuff, though. Does that mean if Serenity decided to publish the map book without permission, CCP couldn't stop it anyway?
It means if he did, he would be in breach of CCPs EULA and subject to civil if not criminal sanctions.
Cite? Are you even remotely aware of the difference between civil and criminal law and the international laws involved here? Sheesh
The EULA is not relevant, it's an issue of copyright and fair use.
There's no chance whatsoever I myself will buy a maps book, but if Serenity has secured publishing, I say good luck!
//Maya |
Shinji Seto
Minmatar Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.06.06 13:34:00 -
[312]
I would buy the book, just to **** off wiggly for wasting my time with a useless troll thread.
"Outlaw" This was the name given to those who roam the universe with only his freedom as his guide. |
MotherMoon
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Posted - 2007.06.06 18:32:00 -
[313]
Originally by: Wiggly Jiggly Edited by: Wiggly Jiggly on 06/06/2007 05:19:09
Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby the cause is lost anyways
Because you say so? Consensus rarely results in the correct course of action.
Serenity book is the exact same thing as EvEMon.
EvEMon takes in game information and presents it in a easy to understand simple fashion. Serenitys Map book takes in game information and presents it in a easy to understand and simple fashion.
Both provide advantages to the EvE player for using withone difference. One is free, the other can only be obtain by payment. This disparity is WRONG.
If there was a free version of this map book this disparity would be gone and the EULA would be respected. DON'T bother to mention the 'other' free map websites. They are just that... 'other' and not this book.
Many claim that Serenity deserves to 'get paid' for his work. I disagree entirely because there is limited if any original input into his work. It is meaerly a collection of in game maps and icons for interesting point of reference. All of which are found in game and NOT his creation.
Kudos for putting it all together in a spiral book Serenity... but I'd rather print off the regions I frequent myself. But you don't give us that choice. We have to PAY for the whole thing like it is some coffee table reading materiel.
It gives an unfair advatage to those with the book, and CCP should NOT allow it to be sold. Period.
Especially when every other third party developer that put together a tool did so without seeking a 'payday' at the expense of game balance.
actully, the maps don't look anything like in-game. He moved everything around so that it could be flat. it doesn't match the in-game world at all. just a layout that tells you what's leads to what. but it's readable. the main reason this is pay for is it can be written on. If EvE-mon could sell a board-game version of it's self it would. but that doesn't even make sense.
you've been ignoring the last guide someone made that was full of maps as well. and that people bought.
The only truth you speak is of capitalism and open your eyes it's normal bissness in life.
I really can't believe your older than 19. go get emo, and come back after you've gorn up.
and if you are older it doesn't matter, grow up anyways. this is how the real world works. the more money you have the more of an advantage you have.
or are you ****ed at the people that buy 2 million$ houses as well. you should be.
what about the people that make the 2 million $ houses?
should everyone have the same advantage or the same money and work? that makes you a COMMI-**** liberal
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MotherMoon
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Posted - 2007.06.06 18:35:00 -
[314]
Edited by: MotherMoon on 06/06/2007 18:38:29
Originally by: Onnawa There is no "Secondary Market" you fool. There's only the Market. And CCP gets to dictate how it is managed and run. If you don't like it, term your chars.
And if CCP nuked EveMon and wrote their own, I'd like it just fine. It's their choice, their product, and their servers. You're missing the fact that we don't have any power over it. The only powers we have as the consumer is to buy, or not. Pure, simple, period.
right like EvE-voice Wiggly what are your views on this? and don't bring up the 1 person crap it doesn't matter if it was one or 5 people that made it.
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Tortun Nahme
Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.06.06 18:37:00 -
[315]
will you monkeys stop bumping this silyl thread so it dies already
...
oops
Real turtles tank armor. Real men fly Pink.
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Viruzzz2
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Posted - 2007.06.06 18:40:00 -
[316]
I don't see the problem. they charge for a physical book that they spend materials and time to make, i see nothing wrong with that.
in what business would it be any different?
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MotherMoon
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Posted - 2007.06.06 18:40:00 -
[317]
but it's fun and promotes the new map book!
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Barbarellas Daughter
Lonely Barbarella
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Posted - 2007.06.06 18:42:00 -
[318]
Originally by: Maglorre
Originally by: Ozstar Edited by: Ozstar on 06/06/2007 11:33:06 I may buy two copies now, just to **** Wiggly off.
Hmmm, maybe Wiggly is an alt of Serenity, posting contrary and inflammatory trollage in an attempt to get people to do just that...
T2 Tinfoil Hats anyone?
maybe its a DEV, laughing at us instead of fixing bugs?
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DarkMatter
Amarr Mineral Aquisition Group
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Posted - 2007.06.06 18:43:00 -
[319]
Serenity is a smart, cool person. I was in ISS when Count & Serenity first started it up.
I'd buy one just because of that!
I do like Ombey's maps, but a book would be nice too. Just an EVE trinket that would be nice to have, and bonus if it's useful too!
So wiggle off Mr. Jiggly. we don't care...
Building the homestead
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Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Sparta Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.06 18:47:00 -
[320]
Originally by: Barbarellas Daughter
Originally by: Maglorre
Originally by: Ozstar Edited by: Ozstar on 06/06/2007 11:33:06 I may buy two copies now, just to **** Wiggly off.
Hmmm, maybe Wiggly is an alt of Serenity, posting contrary and inflammatory trollage in an attempt to get people to do just that...
T2 Tinfoil Hats anyone?
maybe its a DEV, laughing at us instead of fixing bugs?
Maybe Serenity is a BoB Dev and Wiggly is her clone. Thats right, not alt- clone. RL one.
We're through the looking glass, people --------
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Eemaavi
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.06.06 19:36:00 -
[321]
NOT FEEDING The Troll,, Comrade Wiggly is lost in a Marxist Utopia...
I just wanted to point out if anyone was actually following some of the Thead that EvEMon is still supported and according to the Dev Blog,http://myeve.eve-online.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=467
The Eve Devs are revamping the API System to make it easier for 3rd party developer to makemore free stuff.. Yeah I'm an Alt- Go cry elswhere |
Maglorre
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Posted - 2007.06.07 03:45:00 -
[322]
Originally by: Barbarellas Daughter maybe its a DEV, laughing at us instead of fixing bugs?
I think the more we bump this thread the more people will be aware of and buy the book and the more rabid Wiggly will become.
I've got got to say that your portrait is kinda disturbing. Kinda looks like a Barbie doll apart from the nice knockers. The look is spoilt by the gimpy arm though
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Van Krakien
Port Royal Independent Kontractors Atrum Tempestas Foedus
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Posted - 2007.11.12 21:40:00 -
[323]
Well Serenity is probably negotiating with CCP because he wants to help the playerbase of EVE, the fact that he is charging you probably no more than 15$ isn't that bad. In truth anyways the charging is most likely for the printing, and overall producing of the book not the information the book holds. I am not saying I like the idea of being charged for something, however it will be a good tool for players to use in a time of planning and such.
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Coconut Joe
VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD Te-Ka
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Posted - 2007.11.12 22:19:00 -
[324]
Shut the Eve Shop as well.
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Sarah McTeef
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Posted - 2007.11.12 22:57:00 -
[325]
How DARE CCP charge for Eve-Online, no one should be allowed to make money. The fact that CCP wants to license their products and brands to third parties is COMMUNISM! It's insulting!
Wait. What? |
Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2007.11.12 23:00:00 -
[326]
Hehehe, memories. ------
Originally by: CCP Prism X There's no such thing as playing too much EvE! You all obviously need more accounts! |
Moghydin
Confederation of Red Moon Red Moon Federation
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Posted - 2007.11.12 23:44:00 -
[327]
I don't get it how it can be a threat to anything. If you don't like it, don't buy it. I won't. I have a free alternative (Ombey's maps) and I can't say I overuse it either. And Eve is CCP product, so it's up to them to decide what to do with it. If they decide to double the subscription cost, they do it. As a customer you can either buy or not their product, but you can't tell them how to earn money or manage licensing policy.
Are you concerned that rich ppl will get advantage? It's happening right now. Multiple accounts, GTCs are means for rich ppl to get advantage. No matter what you do, you can't completely detach virtual world from the real one, and RL wealth will crawl into the game in some form sooner or later.
Communism is... well, utopia, a beautiful, but impossible to achieve. Our world lives and breathes money. Try earn enough so you won't care.
Press alt+F4 to reduce lag |
Tressin Khiyne
Minmatar The Tal'Shiar
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Posted - 2007.11.12 23:51:00 -
[328]
People like you are exactly WHY EveMon QuickFit and others like them SHOULD charge. To clarify -- you suck.
*Tressin Khiyne donates AGAIN to QuickFit. --
There are 10 kinds of people in this world; Those who understand binary, and those who don't.
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Arana Tellen
Gallente The Blackguard Wolves Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2007.11.12 23:53:00 -
[329]
The necro continues to claim people ---------------------------------
Thorax type R&R. (Ribbed and R rated) |
Tarminic
Forsaken Resistance
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Posted - 2007.11.13 00:16:00 -
[330]
I remember this thread. ---------------- Tarminic - 29 Million SP in pink Forum Warfare |
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