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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Fliewatuet
Angelus dos Business
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Posted - 2007.06.05 07:01:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Wiggly Jiggly The creators of EvEMon only have a product because of the intelectual property of CCP. They use CCP resources and put load on the servers. If they started to charge for their service it would be tatamount to stealing.
Well, you know, of course the load on the server would be drastically reduced then. :D Anyway, as long as evemon makes use of the database dump it won't do to charge for it.
Still, as long as the idea is a good one and its usefull, its ok to charge for it. There are plenty of books around for a lot of games - walk-throughs, etc. why shouldn't that be allowed for eve? :)
Regards, Flie -- |
Imperator Jora'h
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Posted - 2007.06.05 07:02:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Wiggly Jiggly This goes against the EULA and smells too much like legitamising ebay type sales.
You really, seriously, need to get over that notion.
Entering into a contractual business arrangement with CCP to produce a product related to their game is completely legal. Not only legal but normal. Imagine Serenity was not an EVE player but a publishing house. Would you feel differently about it then since the publishing company was not an EVE player bound by the EULA?
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Serrano Balthar
Crypsis Inc.
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Posted - 2007.06.05 07:03:00 -
[93]
lol at the op .... seriously, go out see how the sky is blue, open you'r noze and ... refresh you'r mind !!!!
----------- Igvar Thorn arn ! |
Alaron Giancol
Amarr Resurrection R i s e
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Posted - 2007.06.05 07:06:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Wiggly Jiggly
I have a problem that it is purchase only. You will not be able to download a free copy as that would cut into the profits of the creator Serenity.
Except you can download free maps that have all the same information as Serenity's hard copy.
Quote:
This goes against the EULA and smells too much like legitamising ebay type sales.
and this is why this nothing but flamebait, since it has been established several times by several people that it is NOT against the EULA as it in the form of a separate business contract. - We don't get information anymore, we get spin.
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Siigari Kitawa
Gallente The Aduro Protocol
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Posted - 2007.06.05 07:06:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Wiggly Jiggly Personally offended? No... quite far from the truth.
I have a problem that it is purchase only. You will not be able to download a free copy as that would cut into the profits of the creator Serenity.
This goes against the EULA and smells too much like legitamising ebay type sales.
Show me proof that I cannot download a copy of the guide. She hasn't even RELEASED IT YET.
_________________ Burn. |
Wiggly Jiggly
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Posted - 2007.06.05 07:13:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Imperator Jora'h Imagine Serenity was not an EVE player but a publishing house. Would you feel differently about it then since the publishing company was not an EVE player bound by the EULA?
No I wouldn't as CCP would probably sell it via their website. However we are NOT talking about a publishing house with a licencing agreement are we? We are talking about Serenity obtaining tacit approval via a phone conversation with Oveur to 'go ahead'.
This is tantamount to giving special licence to one player in the game to ignore a clause of CCP's EULA. I find that unacceptable, favoratism and setting a VERY bad precedent.
If CCP wants a map book I have NO problem with that. They want a guide? CCP should go right ahead and produce one. However CCP is NOT doing this. Serenity is and is going to make a profit off of doing so with CCPs approval.
This is the same legalised ebay ISK, or charactor sales but with one person having the exclusive rights to do it.
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Ionia
Advanced Manufacturing
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Posted - 2007.06.05 07:14:00 -
[97]
I don't understand your problem. I can't figure out if you're an attention seeking whiner or just plain cheap.
Why don't people have the right to profit from their work? If CCP say its ok, it's ok. Where do you get this idea that everything that people put their time and money into should be donated to you free of charge?
If someone is using CCP's intellectual property and has an agreement with CCP for this, then there is no problem. If someone was to program an EVE-related application that didn't use CCP's intellectual property and charged for it, there is no problem.
Stop being so ******* cheap.
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Splagada
Minmatar Tides of Silence Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.05 07:15:00 -
[98]
Edited by: Splagada on 05/06/2007 07:14:15
Originally by: Dark Shikari Paying for a physical book?
I'm fine with that--do you realize the cost and hassle of printing and shipping such a thing? Their time is worth money you know; they deserve some profit.
id like to buy it, that and a poster
Whats the freaking big deal? ------
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Stahlregen
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.06.05 07:15:00 -
[99]
Edited by: Stahlregen on 05/06/2007 07:14:37 Anyone who does decide to invest in ISS deserves to be separated from their isk, permanently.
So good on ya count!
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Petrothian Tong
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.06.05 07:16:00 -
[100]
/me goes off to ask CCP to license me the right to print out all the ships stats and modules listing and standard generic set-ups, along with pictures of Gallente Women.
-Siggi- ""PvP" isn't only direct person to person combat, it can be very indirect. Selling an item on the market which somebody buys from you is resulting in another guy not getting a sale." Oveur |
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Wiggly Jiggly
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Posted - 2007.06.05 07:17:00 -
[101]
Edited by: Wiggly Jiggly on 05/06/2007 07:17:07
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa Show me proof that I cannot download a copy of the guide. She hasn't even RELEASED IT YET.
From Serenity own website.
When and where can I buy the EvE Strategic Map Book? The book will be available for ordering soon(tm). It has all the Revelation (Kali) Maps, including patch 1.31. The ordering link on this site will become active and an email will be sent out to all newsletter subscribers. Prototypes shown at Fanfest had a very positive response. No, the copies signed by all the dev's aren't for sale!
This will not be made available for free, and your 'pre-order' may or may not ever come into fruition. The risk is yours to take.
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wasn't me
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Posted - 2007.06.05 07:20:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Wiggly Jiggly
Originally by: Imperator Jora'h Imagine Serenity was not an EVE player but a publishing house. Would you feel differently about it then since the publishing company was not an EVE player bound by the EULA?
No I wouldn't as CCP would probably sell it via their website. However we are NOT talking about a publishing house with a licencing agreement are we? We are talking about Serenity obtaining tacit approval via a phone conversation with Oveur to 'go ahead'.
This is tantamount to giving special licence to one player in the game to ignore a clause of CCP's EULA. I find that unacceptable, favoratism and setting a VERY bad precedent.
If CCP wants a map book I have NO problem with that. They want a guide? CCP should go right ahead and produce one. However CCP is NOT doing this. Serenity is and is going to make a profit off of doing so with CCPs approval.
This is the same legalised ebay ISK, or charactor sales but with one person having the exclusive rights to do it.
First of all, the data dumps have a *different* license then the game. And it explicitly states that if you want to use the information comercially that you need to get a license.
And do you honestly think that you can get such license with a single phone call? Do you honestly think there havn't been RL meetings with for example a marketing director?
He's also not the first one, do you think that CCP is publishing EON? Wrong. MMMPublishing is. And finally you can *NOT* compare it to ebaying - he did out of game work and he is not selling ingame items.
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Wiggly Jiggly
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Posted - 2007.06.05 07:22:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Ionia Why don't people have the right to profit from their work? If CCP say its ok, it's ok.
The problem is for years CCP has said that it was NOT ok for people to profit from their own work using EvE intelectual property. NOBODY.
This is the first time a individual has taken 100% in game EVE materiel and slappeed a price tag on it for personal profit and is attempting to garner CCPs blessing.
If CCP blocks ISK sales and charactor sales for cash... they should stand by their EULA and prevent maps for cash as well.
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Alaron Giancol
Amarr Resurrection R i s e
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Posted - 2007.06.05 07:29:00 -
[104]
Originally by: Wiggly Jiggly This is tantamount to giving special licence to one player in the game to ignore a clause of CCP's EULA. I find that unacceptable, favoratism and setting a VERY bad precedent.
If CCP wants a map book I have NO problem with that. They want a guide? CCP should go right ahead and produce one. However CCP is NOT doing this. Serenity is and is going to make a profit off of doing so with CCPs approval.
This is the same legalised ebay ISK, or charactor sales but with one person having the exclusive rights to do it.
First of all, what's being sold is a physical book, not electronic property, which makes it different from selling ISK or characters, which are purely electronic. If you can't tell the difference, you need to go outside more.
Secondly, its not exclusive in that anyone could do if they went through the same amount of work that Serenity did, and got CCP's permission.
Once again, you seem to be dwelling on points that several people have countered several times... - We don't get information anymore, we get spin.
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Wiggly Jiggly
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Posted - 2007.06.05 07:34:00 -
[105]
Edited by: Wiggly Jiggly on 05/06/2007 07:33:24
Originally by: Alaron Giancol First of all, what's being sold is a physical book, not electronic property, which makes it different from selling ISK or characters,
Intelectual property is Intelectual property. Owned by CCP and not for individuals to sell according to their EULA.
That includes maps on in game resources, ISK, charactors etc. They are indistinguishable from a copyright standpoint.
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Alaron Giancol
Amarr Resurrection R i s e
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Posted - 2007.06.05 07:42:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Wiggly Jiggly
Intelectual property is Intelectual property. Owned by CCP and not for individuals to sell according to their EULA.
That includes maps on in game resources, ISK, charactors etc. They are indistinguishable from a copyright standpoint.
Right, so you can't sell them w/o CCP's permission... which serenity has. - We don't get information anymore, we get spin.
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Wiggly Jiggly
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Posted - 2007.06.05 07:44:00 -
[107]
Edited by: Wiggly Jiggly on 05/06/2007 07:43:21
Originally by: Alaron Giancol
Originally by: Wiggly Jiggly
Intelectual property is Intelectual property. Owned by CCP and not for individuals to sell according to their EULA.
That includes maps on in game resources, ISK, charactors etc. They are indistinguishable from a copyright standpoint.
Right, so you can't sell them w/o CCP's permission... which serenity has.
You mean which Serenity has REQUESTED...
Which I am saying CCP should deny for reasons aforementioned. All caught up now?
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
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Posted - 2007.06.05 07:51:00 -
[108]
1. The book is a static tactical information feed - The game is dynamic thus it will only be accurate for so long 2. In the world of todays internet - how long do you think it will take before someone bought and scanned the complete book and put up for download - which will make your "only special people will have this o so advanced tactical information"-argument obsolete
As for a player entity negotiating rights to produce a product containing CCP IP and charging us for it - tbh that's every day biz, and if someone wants it they will buy it - just like we do with EON but there noone complains about the ship setup guides, trading and mission guides and so on.
If he manages to produce a book and get people to buy it then great work and he earns it. Personally I got the chance to flip through it at last years fanfest and it was sweet as hell so I hope he succeeds, and I'd buy it - not for the tactical information - but for the fact that it will be a memory and wellkept information resource "after" EVE.
For everyone else with an idea that potentially could earn them money, everyone has the same chance to make something and discuss it with the IP owners - are you sure you are not just jealous that you didn't come up with this idea first?
/c
Help me help you. |
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FireFoxx80
Caldari E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2007.06.05 07:51:00 -
[109]
At the end of the day. I find Ombey's free maps far superior to the Strategic maps.
So I don't think this will set a precedent. If anything, it'll just encourage people to make better/cheaper imitations.
What I do the rest of the time - Vote for a Jita bypass! |
Vorian Atraties
Dark and Light inc. D-L
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Posted - 2007.06.05 07:53:00 -
[110]
you know i was going to type out some long winded thing here but after 2 lines i said to hell with it. what's the point. I personal have no problem with it at all. if ccp wants to licens serenity to produce the book and charge for it fine. he put in all the hard work in createing it. I think he should have some compensation. you aparently have a problem with ccp allowing him to do so and charge for it. and are worried that all these other people that have created things for eve will also want to start chargeing for ther products. again if you dont want to pay for something dont use it, or make something yourself. I would have no problem paying for the products such as evemon or The Book, it takes alot of time and work to create these things. Just cause you dont want to have to pay for them dosent mean that other's will not. oops i went and did a long winded thing anyway oh well
vor
ps. keep up the good work serenity. pps btw if you are so concerned about it why not post with your main???
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Alaron Giancol
Amarr Resurrection R i s e
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Posted - 2007.06.05 07:54:00 -
[111]
Originally by: Wiggly Jiggly
Which I am saying CCP should deny for reasons aforementioned. All caught up now?
You mean the reasons that almost everyone else in the thread has disagreed with you on?
How is CCP giving someone permission to make a physical map book going to threaten EVE? What rationale can you give that this will lead to more ISK and character selling than there is already? How is it not fair that someone who is choosing to invest money into a project (making physical books has material costs and overhead associated with it that other free 2D maps and programs like EVEMon don't) be able to get money back? - We don't get information anymore, we get spin.
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Wiggly Jiggly
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Posted - 2007.06.05 08:12:00 -
[112]
Edited by: Wiggly Jiggly on 05/06/2007 08:11:53
Originally by: Haks'he Lirky And wow! Having to pay to get stuff? Where are you from? You take the honest work of the people that create EvEMon and MLCalc for granted? You think it's natural that you get their stuff for free?
Congratulations for not getting the point.
It is NOT fair for only ONE third party developer to gain financially from their efforts while others are bound by the EULA to never charge a dime.
Either they ALL should be compensated or none of them should. Selective application of the EULA depending upon the relationship of the individual with those within CCP is unfair to not only thiid party developers, but to the eve community.
The status quo was for 10 years not to allow third party developers to capitalise financially off off CCP intelectual property until now.
I am pointing out this situation as I am uncomfortable with the precedence it sets.
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MotherMoon
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Posted - 2007.06.05 08:15:00 -
[113]
Originally by: Wiggly Jiggly Edited by: Wiggly Jiggly on 05/06/2007 07:17:07
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa Show me proof that I cannot download a copy of the guide. She hasn't even RELEASED IT YET.
From Serenity own website.
When and where can I buy the EvE Strategic Map Book? The book will be available for ordering soon(tm). It has all the Revelation (Kali) Maps, including patch 1.31. The ordering link on this site will become active and an email will be sent out to all newsletter subscribers. Prototypes shown at Fanfest had a very positive response. No, the copies signed by all the dev's aren't for sale!
This will not be made available for free, and your 'pre-order' may or may not ever come into fruition. The risk is yours to take.
um it was at fanfest?? then it must be liseanced.. and I bet CCP will post it on the EvE store
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Wiggly Jiggly
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Posted - 2007.06.05 08:19:00 -
[114]
Edited by: Wiggly Jiggly on 05/06/2007 08:18:37
Originally by: MotherMoon
um it was at fanfest?? then it must be liseanced.. and I bet CCP will post it on the EvE store
If they do I would feel quite differently about it. However the way it has been 'adversised' in these forums by Serenity it is quite clear this is a personal money making enterprise.
I'd love to have CCPs official response to the nature of this relationship. It would go a long way to clear up any preconcieved notions out in the eve community.
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MotherMoon
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Posted - 2007.06.05 08:19:00 -
[115]
Originally by: Wiggly Jiggly Edited by: Wiggly Jiggly on 05/06/2007 08:11:53
Originally by: Haks'he Lirky And wow! Having to pay to get stuff? Where are you from? You take the honest work of the people that create EvEMon and MLCalc for granted? You think it's natural that you get their stuff for free?
Congratulations for not getting the point.
It is NOT fair for only ONE third party developer to gain financially from their efforts while others are bound by the EULA to never charge a dime.
Either they ALL should be compensated or none of them should. Selective application of the EULA depending upon the relationship of the individual with those within CCP is unfair to not only thiid party developers, but to the eve community.
The status quo was for 10 years not to allow third party developers to capitalise financially off off CCP intelectual property until now.
I am pointing out this situation as I am uncomfortable with the precedence it sets.
what are you talking about!!!! EULA??? they aren't making real world money based on in game isk. it's a player guide. thrid parties do that they don't play EvE
CCP will make money off of it
EULA has nothing to do with out of game stuff and making a book and selling it is not E-bay money making
unless you mean that a company is trying to make you a comsumer ***** because well, open your eyes, if you ever bought a 3rd party transformer toy then you've been used for money at the creator expense
duh
but this is different this is a player giude. a hardcopy. and you can allready download all of the maps. and make the book your self.
also what the hell are you talking about when you say we will get chraged money for in-game tools lik EvE-mon?? if EvE-mon was a book maybe. if it's not electronic it's not covered by the EULA
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MotherMoon
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Posted - 2007.06.05 08:20:00 -
[116]
Originally by: Wiggly Jiggly
Originally by: MotherMoon
um it was at fanfest?? then it must be liseanced.. and I bet CCP will post it on the EvE store
If they do I would feel quite differently about it. However the way it has been 'adversised' in these forums by Serenity it is quite clear this is a personal money making enterprise.
I'd love to have CCPs official response to the nature of this relationship. It would go a long way to clear up and preconcieved notions out in the eve community.
you could of just said, Is CCP making money off of this or not. and we would all comment about that. and like I said it's a company using a brand to make money at consumer *****s expense
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Alaron Giancol
Amarr Resurrection R i s e
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Posted - 2007.06.05 08:23:00 -
[117]
Originally by: Wiggly Jiggly Edited by: Wiggly Jiggly on 05/06/2007 08:11:53
Originally by: Haks'he Lirky And wow! Having to pay to get stuff? Where are you from? You take the honest work of the people that create EvEMon and MLCalc for granted? You think it's natural that you get their stuff for free?
Congratulations for not getting the point.
It is NOT fair for only ONE third party developer to gain financially from their efforts while others are bound by the EULA to never charge a dime.
Either they ALL should be compensated or none of them should. Selective application of the EULA depending upon the relationship of the individual with those within CCP is unfair to not only thiid party developers, but to the eve community.
The status quo was for 10 years not to allow third party developers to capitalise financially off off CCP intelectual property until now.
I am pointing out this situation as I am uncomfortable with the precedence it sets.
You seem to be oblivious to the fact that each book has a fixed cost associated with producing it, unlike programs and webapps.
The only difference between the deal between CCP and Serenity, and every other deal CCP (or any other game company has in the past) for merchandising is that we can actually identify the person making the product in-game. I have no doubt that at least some of the employees of the companies that physically produce the EVE key chains, playing cards, t-shirts, and posters play EVE, we just don't know who they are in game. - We don't get information anymore, we get spin.
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Wiggly Jiggly
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Posted - 2007.06.05 08:23:00 -
[118]
Originally by: MotherMoon if it's not electronic it's not covered by the EULA
Wow. You don't actually beleive this do you?
Try and print off screenshots on paper and selling them in here. I would be curious how far you got before CCP lawyers smacked you with a copyright infringement notice.
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MotherMoon
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Posted - 2007.06.05 08:25:00 -
[119]
Originally by: Wiggly Jiggly
Originally by: MotherMoon if it's not electronic it's not covered by the EULA
Wow. You don't actually beleive this do you?
Try and print off screenshots on paper and selling them in here. I would be curious how far you got before CCP lawyers smacked you with a copyright infringement notice.
well if I called CCP frist and asked if I could and they said yes
then yes I would do just that and make money off of people that are really happy I take sweet screen shots
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Wiggly Jiggly
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Posted - 2007.06.05 08:26:00 -
[120]
Originally by: Alaron Giancol You seem to be oblivious to the fact that each book has a fixed cost associated with producing it, unlike programs and webapps.
Eh? Of course there is a fixed cost for developing programs and webapps.
The computer itself, internet access, server space, bandwidth charges, software licencing etc. All have a fixed price.
What's wrong with you?
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