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Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.06.06 21:43:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 06/06/2007 21:47:24
As you might notice lately EVE-files is... to say the least... overloaded. Download speeds in the 10-40KB/s range seem quite common. The primary reason seems to be the proliferation of very, very large videos.
There is a solution: Offer smaller, somewhat lower quality versions that are still relatively watchable. People who don't want to download the codecs to play back the smaller video (encoded with H.264 for video and AAC for audio) or whose computer is too slow could download the larger file instead. The advantage of the smaller file would be obvious: it wouldn't take 4 hours to download.
Example: BoB mothership kill video. 464MB. Smaller version: 67MB, pretty minimal quality loss.
All you have to do is either post here (or EVE-mail me ingame, or both) with a link to the EVE-files video you want shrunk and I will recode it for you as soon as possible. I offer three options--low quality (30-40% smaller than the above), medium quality (example linked above), or high quality (60-80% larger than the above). I expect most people to choose medium quality.
Hopefully this will help take some load off Chribba's server by allowing most players to download much smaller versions of the videos.
When posting the shrunken video links, post the following along with them:
You'll need the [url="http://www.cccp-project.net/"]CCCP[/url] (codec pack) or [url="http://www.videolan.org/vlc/"]VLC[/url] (standalone player) in order to play the video. Also note you need a pretty fast computer to play it back without stuttering.
which yields
You'll need the CCCP (codec pack) or VLC (standalone player) in order to play the video. Also note you need a pretty fast computer to play it back without stuttering.
--23 Member--
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Maeltstome
Minmatar Caldari Navy Raiders Praesidium Libertatis
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Posted - 2007.06.06 22:15:00 -
[2]
A bigger benefit to the eve community would be releasing codec's that aren't terrible. You'd need a NASA machine to get these things even remotely smooth. I can't even get this running smoothly on an x64 machine with nearly 2gig of ram.
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Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.06.06 22:17:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 06/06/2007 22:22:08
Originally by: Maeltstome A bigger benefit to the eve community would be releasing codec's that aren't terrible. You'd need a NASA machine to get these things even remotely smooth. I can't even get this running smoothly on an x64 machine with nearly 2gig of ram.
Its CPU-limited, not RAM-limited. Are you sure that its not simply the low framerate of the video? The person FRAPSing it obviously didn't have the best machine there was. To make sure, watch the video up until the Aeon gets to half armor. When it does, a Nightwish song is supposed to start. If its off by quite a long period of time, you're having sync issues. If its on time, you're not.
It runs quite fine here on my 2Ghz Core 2 Duo both with CoreAVC (faster codec) and FFDshow (slower, included in VLC and CCCP). Surprised you're having trouble with it...
If a number of people have trouble with it I could do one of two things:
a) Reduce the resolution of the videos so that they're playable on most machines b) Have people install CoreAVC, included in the linked codec pack. Its multithreaded and a lot faster than VLC/CCCP.
--23 Member--
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
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Posted - 2007.06.06 22:25:00 -
[4]
I support this idea, very smart idea as the viewer could then chose to get an even better quality video if he/she likes what they see.
ofc it will require some extra time from authors/DS - and I'll do my best to see what I can do on my side in order to increase your speed.
/c
Help me help you. |
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Lowa
Gallente North Star Networks Cruel Intentions
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Posted - 2007.06.06 22:43:00 -
[5]
I fully endorse this message and would like to subscribe to the medium version.
Cheers, Lowa
What if the truth was something else? |
Das Forscher
Infinitus Odium
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Posted - 2007.06.06 22:50:00 -
[6]
I know for a fact that damige used the mkv format in his first version of DC2, but it simply didnt work... halfed the size, but didnt work
i like the idea, but it would be one hell of a work //------------------------------------------------------
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Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.06.06 22:52:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Das Forscher I know for a fact that damige used the mkv format in his first version of DC2, but it simply didnt work... halfed the size, but didnt work
i like the idea, but it would be one hell of a work
MKV is a container, not a codec--I could also use MP4 (a separate standard used by Apple/etc). I use MKV because Chribba has EVE-files set to allow MKV--he'd have to specifically allow MP4 to let me use it.
What really matter is whats inside the container--in this case H.264 High Profile video and AAC-LC or AAC+ audio.
--23 Member--
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DaMiGe
Amarr Infinitus Odium
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Posted - 2007.06.07 00:11:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: Das Forscher I know for a fact that damige used the mkv format in his first version of DC2, but it simply didnt work... halfed the size, but didnt work
i like the idea, but it would be one hell of a work
MKV is a container, not a codec--I could also use MP4 (a separate standard used by Apple/etc). I use MKV because Chribba has EVE-files set to allow MKV--he'd have to specifically allow MP4 to let me use it.
What really matter is whats inside the container--in this case H.264 High Profile video and AAC-LC or AAC+ audio.
What he meens is the H.264 codec (Wich was put in a mkv container) for some reson the H.264 codec went all wrong encoding DC2.
It was perfect quality, but when encoding it from raw avi to h.264 all the "flashing" effects turned out out of sync or overlapping. An example would be 2 quick flashes of white in a movie transition would become 1 white flash for the whole duration between the two flashes. (If it makes sence)
I have tried verious settings and encoding programs (All h.264), but it did not seem to get rid of the problem. If you think you can solve it. Please do, and if you will let me know how to fix it you would be much thanked.
Smaller size = better for all
-DaM ---> My vids <--- latest movie = DaMiGe Control 1 |
Vicious Phoenix
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Posted - 2007.06.07 00:21:00 -
[9]
I have a better idea.
Use File Front instead of eve-files. Filefront always downloads for me at 4-600 kb/s. Not too shabby plus since it's a corporate thing unlike eve-files they have more bandwidth and server pwnage. Chribba is still my hero though.
CFW (Certified Forum Warrior) I kill people ingame too.
Originally by: CCP Tuxford I prefer dew over pepsi. I prefer beer over most things. Damn now I want beer.
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Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.06.07 01:25:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Vicious Phoenix I have a better idea.
Use File Front instead of eve-files. Filefront always downloads for me at 4-600 kb/s. Not too shabby plus since it's a corporate thing unlike eve-files they have more bandwidth and server pwnage. Chribba is still my hero though.
Don't they have waiting lines and all that? Plus its much more of a hassle to upload.
Another thing I'm investigating is the VP7 codec, from On2--its supposed to have quality better than H.264 with lower decoding CPU requirement--somehow I doubt that the quality is better than H.264 (sounds like marketingspeak to me) but if it can decode faster it might work on slower computers also.
--23 Member--
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Sevarus James
Minmatar Meridian Dynamics FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.07 02:19:00 -
[11]
Too bad we couldn't organize a p2p torrent ring. If there is THAT much traffic hitting chribba's site, bittorrent seems like it would be an acceptable alternative. (needing, of course, enough seeders to keep things lively.)
Personally I torrent EVERYTHING except eve videos.
Ubuntu 3d Beryl-Linux Desktop+EVE |
Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.06.07 02:31:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 07/06/2007 02:30:28
Originally by: Sevarus James Too bad we couldn't organize a p2p torrent ring. If there is THAT much traffic hitting chribba's site, bittorrent seems like it would be an acceptable alternative. (needing, of course, enough seeders to keep things lively.)
Personally I torrent EVERYTHING except eve videos.
The problem with torrents is that they're only valuable for an initial transfer; after a month or two there's never enough people left seeding it.
They're great for the first few days, but after that they really taper off.
A site like EVE-files will always be needed because torrents are generally useless for older files that are no longer linked from the front page of the videos forum.
--23 Member--
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Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.06.07 03:23:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 07/06/2007 03:29:22 I've done a speed analysis on VP7 and the two major H.264 decoders using TimeCodec (using the BoB mothership video):
VP7: 38.3 FPS CoreAVC with deblocking: 160 FPS CoreAVC without deblocking: 205.5 FPS FFDShow with deblocking: 40.6 FPS FFDShow without deblocking: 46.8 FPS
VP7 appears to be actually slower than H.264 despite On2's claims. The tests were done on a 2Ghz Core 2 Duo. Note that CoreAVC is multithreaded and FFDshow isn't. Also note that as deblocking is a normal part of the decoding process, it is on by default.
CoreAVC is mindblowingly fast--twice as fast as FFDshow even on a single core and with dual core it is 4 times faster. This means it can probably play back 1080p HD video even on older CPUs like 2Ghz Pentium 4s.
The MSU Video Quality comparison tool is about 85% done, so I'll update this post with that info in a bit.
--23 Member--
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Yukiko Kanezaki
Tsunami Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.06.07 07:19:00 -
[14]
Here is a thought, come up with a naming convention for videos that have been uploaded to EvE-files purely for Dark Shikari so other people don't start downloading them. Or set it up some way for people to upload to a special folder that only DS has access to, that would prevent eve-file stalkers from snagging them before they are re-encoded by DS.
good/bad?
http://img352.imageshack.us/img352/64/shuttlesue6.gif
signature removed , not appropriate for the foumr. - please email us (with the signature URL) if you want to know why - Pirlouit([email protected]) |
The CaPoNe
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Posted - 2007.06.07 07:40:00 -
[15]
a small tiny tutorial would be fine, to show us/me how to compress a movie properly. in sony vegas i have only Maincopect mp4 codec and i doubt its the right codec :)
Thx in advance
_________________________________________________ Best Regards The CaPoNe Http://happydt.chill.to |
Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.06.07 10:07:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Yukiko Kanezaki Here is a thought, come up with a naming convention for videos that have been uploaded to EvE-files purely for Dark Shikari so other people don't start downloading them. Or set it up some way for people to upload to a special folder that only DS has access to, that would prevent eve-file stalkers from snagging them before they are re-encoded by DS.
good/bad?
Nah, I only plan to do this on request and I won't be able to do it fast enough to keep up with all videos anyways.
Originally by: The CaPoNe a small tiny tutorial would be fine, to show us/me how to compress a movie properly. in sony vegas i have only Maincopect mp4 codec and i doubt its the right codec :)
Thx in advance
I have a guide posted in the sticky but tbh most people can't be arsed.
--23 Member--
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Dave White
coracao ardente
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Posted - 2007.06.07 12:45:00 -
[17]
gg DS.
Wouldn't want EVE-Files to having to start deleting data and/or limit the maximum upload size (actually, the latter isn't such a bad idea :P)
CORA. Killboard Personal Killboard |
Tanya Kovacs
SteelVipers YouWhat
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Posted - 2007.06.07 13:39:00 -
[18]
I guess a good combination would be perfect: torrent + better codecs.
Originally by: Dark Shikari The problem with torrents is that they're only valuable for an initial transfer; after a month or two there's never enough people left seeding it.
They're great for the first few days, but after that they really taper off.
I don't think this is a valid argument. Of course, most downloaders are more leechers then community oriented and the average ration would be way below 1.0, but: it's still bandwith chribba doesn't have to serve. So: chribba's server could also work as a seed (or act as a seed under special conditions (=no/few other seeds and peers))!
Let's say somebody uploads a movie to chribba:
1) Chribba's server acts as a seed. 2) People read the thread at the forums and start the torrent. 3) Chribba's server acts as a seed until some conditions are met 4) People are downloading the vid like crazy and the movie is spread by the users and more or less "Chribba-independent" (see my point? more bandwith for other movies) 5) First rush is over, Chribba's server acts as a seed again together with some kind people who don't delete the torrent-file as soon as the download completes
Because the server is also the tracker you always know how many people want to download a movie and how many seeds are available for this movie - and so you know if the server has to act as a seed, too.
Tbh it's just a theoretical setup, no idea if this works in practice or how much time is needed to make this work. But on paper it sounds good (imho). If you download big files (like linux distributions or similar) there are all the time dedicated seeds which are vendor-driven to speed up the downloads.
Comments? --
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Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.06.07 14:02:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Tanya Kovacs Edited by: Tanya Kovacs on 07/06/2007 13:58:38 I guess a good combination would be perfect: torrent + better codecs.
Originally by: Dark Shikari The problem with torrents is that they're only valuable for an initial transfer; after a month or two there's never enough people left seeding it.
They're great for the first few days, but after that they really taper off.
I don't think this is a valid argument. Of course, most downloaders are more leechers then community oriented and the average ration would be way below 1.0, but: it's still bandwith chribba doesn't have to serve. So: chribba's server could also work as a seed (or act as a seed under special conditions (=no/few other seeds and peers))!
Let's say somebody uploads a movie to chribba:
1) Chribba's server acts as a seed. 2) People read the thread at the forums and start the torrent. 3) Chribba's server acts as a seed until some conditions are met 4) People are downloading the vid like crazy and the movie is spread by the users and more or less "Chribba-independent" (see my point? more bandwith for other movies) 5) First rush is over, Chribba's server acts as a seed again together with some kind people who don't delete the torrent-file as soon as the download completes
Because the server is also the tracker you always know how many people want to download a movie and how many seeds are available for this movie - and so you know if the server has to act as a seed, too.
Tbh it's just a theoretical setup, no idea if this works in practice or how much time is needed to make this work. But on paper it sounds good (imho). If you download big files (like linux distributions or similar) there are all the time dedicated seeds which are vendor-driven to speed up the downloads.
Comments?
edit: I know, eve-files is more then just "downloading movies", but maybe there is a way to make all files > xxmb available via torrent only and others via the direct download.
That exact sort of system was tried a while back and it was shut down due to lack of use.
--23 Member--
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Tanya Kovacs
SteelVipers YouWhat
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Posted - 2007.06.07 14:04:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Tanya Kovacs on 07/06/2007 14:04:50 Oh, ok.. Didn't know that
edit: Was the user forced to use it? Or was it optional? If the latter, wouldn't expect anything else --
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Cosy
Porandor
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Posted - 2007.06.07 14:13:00 -
[21]
a option is eve-file force that files over 50 MB be accepted only if are coded on H.264
*snip* - not a appropriate link - hutch hutch is a pet :P hutch now is ? |
Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.06.07 14:32:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 07/06/2007 14:31:49
Originally by: Cosy a option is eve-file force that files over 50 MB be accepted only if are coded on H.264
No, that would be absurd: not everyone has really, really fast computers.
A 1680x1050 H.264 video, for example, probably would not play on anything short of a 2-2.4Ghz Core 2. That's why I suggested the H.264 versions be resized somewhat for the absolute highest-resolution videos.
Originally by: Tanya Kovacs
Oh, ok.. Didn't know that
edit: Was the user forced to use it? Or was it optional? If the latter, wouldn't expect anything else
Optional, of course.
I'm not sure what would happen if users were forced to use it--it might cause a lot of people to avoid EVE-files, as many ISPs throttle torrents.
--23 Member--
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Sevarus James
Minmatar Meridian Dynamics FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.07 15:02:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 07/06/2007 02:30:28
Originally by: Sevarus James Too bad we couldn't organize a p2p torrent ring. If there is THAT much traffic hitting chribba's site, bittorrent seems like it would be an acceptable alternative. (needing, of course, enough seeders to keep things lively.)
Personally I torrent EVERYTHING except eve videos.
The problem with torrents is that they're only valuable for an initial transfer; after a month or two there's never enough people left seeding it.
They're great for the first few days, but after that they really taper off.
A site like EVE-files will always be needed because torrents are generally useless for older files that are no longer linked from the front page of the videos forum.
Sorta why I said "too bad". I use a private tracker for most stuff, and everything that gets "requested" is put back up. Because its a private track, there are ALWAYS decent seeders (i.e. fast bandwidth) to ensure that even older stuff stays fast.
Having a group of eve video heads who set up as "seeders" with decent bandwidth and ensure that the good stuff stays available would be nice.
I do understand what you replied with however.
Ubuntu 3d Beryl-Linux Desktop+EVE |
Cosy
Porandor
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Posted - 2007.06.07 15:03:00 -
[24]
the perfect solution is that all ppl start using h.264 code but ppl don't know/don't care about that other ideas: all files 250 mb+ torrent only or make some ratio script, set a maximum MB per minute (IMHO 16mb/min is more that sufficient) soo when ppl try to upload a video whit 400 mb and only have 8 min get a nice message "your encode skills sux" j/k
use h.264 code for your video and like that help eve-files
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Omega Man
The Geddy Foundation
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Posted - 2007.06.09 14:46:00 -
[25]
I believe Chribba recently increased the size of files which could be uploaded onto eve files.
What Chribba gives, Chribba can take away.
Really he has the power to make choices very simple for people if he so wishes.
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Dracolich
North Star Networks Cruel Intentions
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Posted - 2007.06.09 17:01:00 -
[26]
Awesome suggestion, DS - As for myself - I have almost given up on figuring out how to follow your guide for H.264 - I can't even get a script going in AviSynth. Meh nub - meh dumb. _____________________________________
_____________________________________ Kreul Intentions is my Guardian Angel |
Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.06.09 17:11:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Dracolich Awesome suggestion, DS - As for myself - I have almost given up on figuring out how to follow your guide for H.264 - I can't even get a script going in AviSynth. Meh nub - meh dumb.
Use the AutoEncoder! Its literally a one-click process: place your files in the input folder, choose a mode, and click!
23 Member
EVE Video makers: save EVE-files bandwidth! Use the H.264 AutoEncoder! |
Dracolich
North Star Networks Cruel Intentions
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Posted - 2007.06.09 19:52:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: Dracolich Awesome suggestion, DS - As for myself - I have almost given up on figuring out how to follow your guide for H.264 - I can't even get a script going in AviSynth. Meh nub - meh dumb.
Use the AutoEncoder! Its literally a one-click process: place your files in the input folder, choose a mode, and click!
yeah thanx - I just didn't see that thread till just after I posted here. It's totally wicked.
I have tried abit of each - and with a 6mb wmv file compressed it in medium speed - high quality - had the same size as Medium - medium. Maybe it will differ more in bigger sizes, but think I will use Medium - high quality(it almost halfed my file).
Great work, DS... _____________________________________
_____________________________________ Kreul Intentions is my Guardian Angel |
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