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Lord Evangelian
Gallente LEAP Corp United Confederation of Corporations
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Posted - 2007.06.08 11:32:00 -
[1]
Who else wants them? They should be 25% of a dread for tier 4, and 50% of a dread for tier 5. By that I mean in HP, and Cap and size. My idea is that they are basically empire capitals that are Gank able by concordokends, but are large enough to take down Empire posĘs.
Technically they should still need most of the dread skills like jump drive ect but no capital ship skill. Costing 1B ū 1.5B.
Any thoughts. -----
One day I'll show you...and then you will bow down... |
Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Sparta Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.08 11:46:00 -
[2]
Nah. Three is enough, in my mind. There are only so many roles for a ship to fill, and I think 3 per race is already pretty much struggling to find a distinct niche for each ship.
And the one thing we don't want to do is just have "Tier 4 is X AMOUNT better than Tier 3", "Tier 5 is X AMOUNT better than Tier 4", etc. The 3 BS for each race atm are comparable (My Domi is more than a match for most Hype pilots), so that'd be a dumb thing to do.
I don't like the idea of non capitals having Jump capabilities, either. Thats just blurring the lines of what makes each class special.
T2 BS's, on the other hand, could be interesting. Like a big command ship. --------
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Glumpumpkin
House Elf Liberation Front
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Posted - 2007.06.08 11:48:00 -
[3]
You're thinking of T2 battleships, something the developers have mulled over in the past but have seemed to skip this patch.
I got the impression that these battleships would have unique abilities in the realm of large fleet asssitance, and would be fairly gimped to prevent them from becoming uber solo PvP vessels.
While adding more tiers to the T1 jungle might seem easier, unless insurance payments were adjusted CCP would have a serious problem with isk deflation. Think about it- a 1b isk insurance payment being dropped every time an individual loses one of these ships. The producer got their isk, then a billion is generated by NPC and placed in the individual's wallet. Not a wise decision to add to the existing t1 pools unless insurance is rethought.
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Lord Evangelian
Gallente LEAP Corp United Confederation of Corporations
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Posted - 2007.06.08 11:52:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Lord Evangelian on 08/06/2007 11:52:08 nah thats just it not solo WTFBBQmobiles....but
high sec comparison to a capital. perhaps the tier 4-5 gallente would be small scale carriers, and the cald missile siege torp boats. that each have there own role in high sec fleet warfare. with draw backs that they have alot less monuverbility and unlike capitals CANT tank concord. so perhaps Teir 4 would have 40k HP avrage and teri 5 60k....just random figures. -----
One day I'll show you...and then you will bow down... |
Vladimir Ilych
Gradient
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Posted - 2007.06.08 11:53:00 -
[5]
T2 BS are a really bad idea. If introduced then you would need one to compete and losing it would be crushing to the average wallet.
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Sheriff Jones
Amarr Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.06.08 11:53:00 -
[6]
A third battlecruiser would be nice
So yeah, i have a problem with being serious, but it's the almost smallest problem i have. |
Lord Evangelian
Gallente LEAP Corp United Confederation of Corporations
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Posted - 2007.06.08 11:54:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Vladimir Ilych T2 BS are a really bad idea. If introduced then you would need one to compete and losing it would be crushing to the average wallet.
not T2 but TIER 4-5 as in teh level of skill needed to fly -----
One day I'll show you...and then you will bow down... |
Shakuul
Caldari The Imperial Commonwealth The Sundering
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Posted - 2007.06.08 11:56:00 -
[8]
Uh, so what unique role would they play, just something to kill POS in .5+ ? I don't really see a big benefit to this in terms of pvp quality.
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Xedrik
Amarr Supernova Industries
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Posted - 2007.06.08 12:03:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Xedrik on 08/06/2007 12:06:29
Originally by: Lord Evangelian Who else wants them? They should be 25% of a dread for tier 4, and 50% of a dread for tier 5. By that I mean in HP, and Cap and size. My idea is that they are basically empire capitals that are Gank able by concordokends, but are large enough to take down Empire posĘs.
Technically they should still need most of the dread skills like jump drive ect but no capital ship skill. Costing 1B ū 1.5B.
Any thoughts.
Eh... 25%/50% of a Dread? Are you mad? And why should they be bigger? The tier 2 battleships aren't any bigger than the tier 1 ships (well, maye some of them are a bit bigger, but if you look at the mass, it's not that big of a difference).
Nah. Better go with tech 2 battleships. Assault Battleship (With siege-capabilities, extremely offensive) and something like a Guardian Battleship (With maybe some kind of forcefield/shield tech that can protect ships around it, like a mobile shield generator hehe, extremely defensive).
Both of those could prove very useful in fleet battles. A bunch of Assault Battleships should be able to take out bigger capitals, while Guardian Battleships can tank some of them for a while. Hopefully this will "nerf" the capitals a bit, so you don't get the whole capital blob vs. capital blob battles.
Edit: The Guardian Battleship will be able to tank faction NPC ships as well as CONCORD ships for a short while, but they won't have enough firepower do much more (about the firepower of a tier 1 battleship, but got bonuses for tanking and support).
--- "Death has a tendency to encourage a depressing view of war." |
Miriyana
Gallente Galactic Savings and Investments
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Posted - 2007.06.08 12:06:00 -
[10]
I would love more ships, eve doesnt have enough in my opinion!
- - - - - - Change just leads to more problems |
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Xedrik
Amarr Supernova Industries
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Posted - 2007.06.08 12:11:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Lord Evangelian Edited by: Lord Evangelian on 08/06/2007 11:52:08 nah thats just it not solo WTFBBQmobiles....but
high sec comparison to a capital. perhaps the tier 4-5 gallente would be small scale carriers, and the cald missile siege torp boats. that each have there own role in high sec fleet warfare. with draw backs that they have alot less monuverbility and unlike capitals CANT tank concord. so perhaps Teir 4 would have 40k HP avrage and teri 5 60k....just random figures.
40k?! 60?!?!?! ... Apocalypse Imperial Issue have 13.5k ... You're out flying mate =D
Maybe around 15k... 20k at maximum! Anything higher will just become too powerful.
--- "Death has a tendency to encourage a depressing view of war." |
KISOGOKU
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Posted - 2007.06.08 12:16:00 -
[12]
My apologies, but dont we already know 2 of 4 tier 5 bs's ?raven state issue and tempest tribal issue ?And probably ccp will change we have 2 more candidate apocalypse imperial issue and megathron federate issue rq to lvl 5 (it seems best logical thing to me ,they are at lvl 2 atm) Or these 2 ships's (raven state isue and tempest tribal issue) skill req will be changed?Any thoughts?
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Janu Hull
Caldari Order of Z Industries
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Posted - 2007.06.08 12:25:00 -
[13]
They need to release those Government level ships more openly. Thus far as I've been able to determine, their current method of issuing them is leading to something of a monopoly.
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Lucy Skylancer
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Posted - 2007.06.08 12:26:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Lucy Skylancer on 08/06/2007 12:28:07
Originally by: Lord Evangelian My idea is that they are basically empire capitals that are Gank able by concordokends, but are large enough to take down Empire posĘs.
Not really needed to take down poses tbh. A gang of tier 1-3 battleships is able to take down large poses and usually without losses, if they do it right, just takes some time and a bigger gang. I'd even say for high-sec the effort would be reasonable, maybe already to easy with the bs we have. Shouldn't be possible to wardec industrial corps and nuke their poses into reinforcement in less than half an hour or so for fun in high-sec in my opinion.
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Nate Hammertown
Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.06.08 12:27:00 -
[15]
What if they released T4 buttleships (these would be t4 ships that are shaped like butts) this would be v. important to the pvp scene because not only could they defeat ppl with ease they would humble them in a way that only being blown up by a butt can do. |)) =D------- |
Ulii
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Posted - 2007.06.08 12:30:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Ulii on 08/06/2007 12:30:52 Janu Hull->->make them LP-offers
that would get them out on the market
what do they sell for today? 600b? that would be how much lp? 300mil?
nice grind |
Xedrik
Amarr Supernova Industries
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Posted - 2007.06.08 12:34:00 -
[17]
Originally by: KISOGOKU Edited by: KISOGOKU on 08/06/2007 12:20:39 Edited by: KISOGOKU on 08/06/2007 12:18:56 My apologies, but dont we already know 2 of 4 tier 5 bs's ?raven state issue and tempest tribal issue ?And probably we have 2 more candidate for tier 5, apocalypse imperial issue and megathron federate issue.Probably with a skill req change from lvl 2 to lvl 5, it seems best logical move to me for imperial apoc and federate mega? Or these 2 ships's (raven state isue and tempest tribal issue) skill req will be changed if ccp decide to completly new ship ?Any thoughts?
No, they are faction ships, not belonging to any tier. No blueprint exists, so they can't be mass produced.
--- "Death has a tendency to encourage a depressing view of war." |
Xedrik
Amarr Supernova Industries
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Posted - 2007.06.08 12:37:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Nate Hammertown What if they released T4 buttleships (these would be t4 ships that are shaped like butts) this would be v. important to the pvp scene because not only could they defeat ppl with ease they would humble them in a way that only being blown up by a butt can do.
Oh my... GoonSwarm intelligence!
--- "Death has a tendency to encourage a depressing view of war." |
Ashaz
Mindstar Technology United Confederation of Corporations
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Posted - 2007.06.08 13:44:00 -
[19]
T2 Battleships? hm. logistics ships maybe? =) evil capital support, with little offence but enough tank to achtually survive. iDrone |
cal nereus
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2007.06.09 07:00:00 -
[20]
I'm not really interested in T2 battleships, or in tier 4 or tier 5 battleships for that matter. If I want something beyond the battleships available (in both size and power), I'll probably be in an 0.0 corp aiming for dreads anyways.
Instead, I'd like to see a third battlecruiser for each race. That would offer some nice variety in an existing class of ships for empire space.
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Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2007.06.09 07:08:00 -
[21]
Sure I want them. But would it be good for the game? No way.
The current ships all have a role and none of them are useless (almost, anyway). The more ships ccp introduces, the more of the current ships will be rendered obsolete. Unless they are designed to offer something new. Not just more dps and tanking.
---
Originally by: CCP Wrangler You're not supposed to feel like you're logging in to a happy, happy, fluffy, fluffy lala land filled with fun and adventures, thats what hello kitty online is for.
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xeom
Exit 13 Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.06.09 07:09:00 -
[22]
mining battleships. ---
8)The coolest smiley ever!
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Stellar Vix
State War Academy
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Posted - 2007.06.09 08:42:00 -
[23]
I would almost say wrong fourm but your just asking others your opinion.
I think you're little misguided using the Tier system as well. A teir 4 cruiser wouldnt be a battleship now would it? or even half as effective as one it has to be in line wtih other ships, sure it can be tougher, but look at the teir 3 battleships most of them can become super tank or super gank, not both like alot of other battleships.
What your suggesting is a destoyer for the battleship class. Similar to how frigates have destroyers and cruisers have battlecruisers. Something subdread if you will thats a ship class between that and the capitol ships. This however i can see get out balanced due to few things, first off its going to have more slots, the more slots you have the more types of abusive setups can be made, so things like the nanophoon mk2 returns, yippie... So that idea goes out the window, as for anti battleship the ship could work but then it be the issue of being a pwntmobile again so once again out the window.
The price tag for your ships are about equal to the cost to build and develop a flagship almost the tech 2 battleship that is being hinted that its getting considered for service after the mordus laucnhed thiers.
What do flagships do is unknown, read an idea not to long ago that i loved the most and would love to see. Each battleship (including the new ones) will have 1 tech 2 version.
ForceRecon/Hac Mix type with cyno and jump bridge, but no covert cloak ability, and the nod twoards the anti-battleship pwnt mobile. Strong gank t1ish tank.
Logistics/Interdictor mix type with a twist that supports the fleet though deployed fields that have various longer effects such as force fields, indertictor spheres, webifier spheres, repair fields, and damage fields, weakest gank strongest tank.
FleetCommand variant which has a natural racial fleet(this forces folks to make certain order of the ships instead of having just 1 in gang) bonus similar to what titans have but alot weaker along with gang module fittings and bonuses. balanced boost for gank and tank.
these ideas may make them worth the price tag which is the first thing to consider, the next thing is of course survivility with other ships, would this ship threaten the existence of previously existing classes, these three suggestion wont seem to make that they would have pertty unique tricks but for the balance department meh thats going to take work. =========
SWA Qualified Instructor and Mascot or sorts Ensign Stellar Vix |
Rafein
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Posted - 2007.06.09 09:10:00 -
[24]
well, Caldari are fine, they ar actually set up perfectly. Not sure what other role you would give them.
But would be nice to see the other 3 races get a BS based around their Racial Ewar skill, along the lines of the Scorpion.
So Amarr get their big Daddy Arbi, with a tracking disrupter bonus, Gallente get their Daddy Celstis, with their Dampner bonus. And minnie, well, OK, maybe Minnie don;t need a BS sized ship with Target Painter bonus.
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The RepoMan
Caldari Red Horizon Inc Red Horizon
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Posted - 2007.06.09 09:22:00 -
[25]
The tier 3 bs should never be usurped for subcapital tank, though I do think we need alot more ships in the game, I dont want to see anythign with more gank or tank (or comparabily higher combination of the two) than we have allready seen before. More ships should simply add more tactical and diverse options, not more wtfpwnomgsploitswagons.
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Fester Addams
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.06.09 09:50:00 -
[26]
The tier 3 BS was just introduced, I would predict there will be years before new BS's (tier 4-5 or otherwise) will hit the game.
As for T2 BS's... The main reason for them not being in the game yet would in my opinion simply be because CCP has not yet managed to figure out what to do with them.
Making them SHABS's (super heavy assault battleships) is not a good idea, T2 BS's will have to fill a different role in a battle.
Originally I thought they would be support/logistics ships but with the introduction of battlecruisers and their T2 variants taking this slot...
Thus... if you can find a slot that a tier 4 or 5 BS could fill or a slot that a T2 BS could fill than Im sure CCP wants to hear about it :)
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Matthew Cooper
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.06.09 10:20:00 -
[27]
Give me a 2nd set of destroyers, then we'll talk.
Originally by: Ginger Magician u are not allwoed to play in a manner that is purely designed to grief other players no matter how much u hate us its just not allowed
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insulubria
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Posted - 2007.06.09 11:14:00 -
[28]
Edited by: insulubria on 09/06/2007 11:14:13 Edited by: insulubria on 09/06/2007 11:13:59
Originally by: Lord Evangelian capitals CANT tank concord.
Well I don't think you've fought concord very much lately.
a) A battleship with a bill isk can tank a single wave of concord for a few minutes, add a few more bill and it'll tank 1 wave forever stable...
Add even more.. and well another wave Might be possible.
b) concord NOS in the next patch which Is extremely lame and should be a extreme no no. If someone wants to suicide a multi billion isk battleship on someone they sure as hell better be able to shield boost a few times.
Atm (on sisi) 1 wave of concord kills a sieged dreadnought in about 30 seconds due to nos alone, cant even get hardeners actived. tbh who made this change, Very silly.
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Sm0kE
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Posted - 2007.06.09 11:20:00 -
[29]
Damn yo foos deman alot! I dun even know what a teer is, let alone what da number mean.
I'd have to say... Sometin like... Tier 4 is good, but tier 5 is like.. really good and stuff. Lets do this! More stuff to blow up.
Smoke...
P.S. The nukkas is screamin' ------------------------------------------------
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Weer Treyt
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Posted - 2007.06.09 11:56:00 -
[30]
Make T2 BS mission runner's dream and at the same time get carebears out to low sec. Make them have slightly less fire power than T1 BS, but immunity to being warp scrambled and high agility.
While this would be an incentive for mission runners to run in low sec the pirates would get their fair share of kills (bumping, blobbing, surprising careless runners).
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