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Jeremiaz
Gallente JezCorp
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Posted - 2007.06.08 15:48:00 -
[1]
Now before I get started I know that the issue with macros has been discussed to death, so if you donĘt want to read this, don't. Only read if you are genuinely interested and are willing to provide constructive feedback in your post. I donĘt know if my idea has been suggested before in the zillions of other threads, quite frankly there are too many for me to wade through, so apologies if it has already been considered.
We all know that use of 3rd party utilities to control actions in Eve is against the EULA and yet it still goes on. There are many ways of tackling macro miners; - let them carry on their mining operation, while you "liberate" the ore from their jetcans - bump them out of range of the roids, hoping to confuse and effectively disable the macro, at least for a short time - suicide gank them, hoping you can do enough damage before Concord shows up - petition them to CCP - and there are probably many more inventive ways to harass them that I haven't heard about
From my perspective, every time I think a macro-miner is operating in the system, I petition the character to CCP as a "suspected" macro. Of course, there are some common signs that a character may be a macro, but these are by no means 100% proof. Some of the attributes used to identify a "potential" macro include character name, age, corporation, bio, standings and two distinct behaviours; the first being their repetitive actions; the second being their reaction, or sometimes lack of, to harrassement from other players. It's not my call to say that a character is 100% macro-controlled. It is probably also very difficult for CCP to make a judgement call.
When I petition a "suspected" macro I usually get a quick reply from a GM saying something along the lines of "Thanks for reporting this. We will investigate. We will close your petition now" and that's the last I hear of it. WouldnĘt it be nice if CCP left the petition open while they investigated and then gave us a reply such as "Our investigation has identified the character as a macro. They have been banned", or "Our investigation show that the character in question is not a macro".
One idea is to make it difficult (impossible?) for macros, or in fact anyone, to undock from a station without having some sort of real-person intervention.
When I logon to my online bank, one of the security steps is a pin number which has to be entered by clicking a randomly generated on-screen keypad. By randomly generated, I mean the location of the digits on the keypad varies every time you login. A similar principle is used on many websites, particularly during the registration process for online forums where people are required to re-enter the characters which are displayed on a random image on the screen. This prevents bots and other automated systems from registering and potentially spamming the forums and mail servers.
Within Eve I would envisage this working as follows:- - the player clicks the usual "undock" button when in station - a pop-up box is displayed which displays a pin number (say 4 digits but could be more or less). A keypad with buttons 0-9 and a message "please verify pin to undock" is also displayed on the pop-up. This would look a bit like the current in-game calculator, with the number buttons in a different location on the keypad each time you undock. - the player reads the displayed pin and re-enters this by clicking the corresponding number buttons on the keypad - the player undocks
I donĘt see how any macro utility would be able to capture this action, since the number is random and the buttons on the keypad would always be shown in a different layout. Of course this solution would apply for the entire player base. It's an extra step when undocking from a station. If the pin is only 2 digits then it's only 2 extra clicks, so will it adversely affect gameplay? Some would say yes.
Please discuss constructively, no flaming, it is just a suggestion... |
T'Laar Bok
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Posted - 2007.06.08 16:00:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Jeremiaz
When I logon to my online bank, one of the security steps is a pin number which has to be entered by clicking a randomly generated on-screen keypad. By randomly generated, I mean the location of the digits on the keypad varies every time you login.
My bank does that too and it annoyed me so much I made a macro to read and press the right buttons so I can "insta login" so somehow I dont think it will prevent macro miners.
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Jeremiaz
Gallente JezCorp
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Posted - 2007.06.08 16:08:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Jeremiaz on 08/06/2007 16:07:59
Originally by: T'Laar Bok
My bank does that too and it annoyed me so much I made a macro to read and press the right buttons so I can "insta login" so somehow I dont think it will prevent macro miners.
But I guess you have a fixed pin number to login? In which case all you need to do is setup a something to find the location of the appropriate keypad digits on the screen and press them. What I'm suggesitng is that the pin changes on every undock....and i guess it could be displayed as an image where each digit uses a different font...like those on forum registration pages....would a macro be able to cope with that? Just really trying to find a way to make things more difficult for a macro-miner...not saying it's not foolproof, although I guess it would annoy the player base somewhat. |
T'Laar Bok
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Posted - 2007.06.08 16:29:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Jeremiaz
What I'm suggesitng is that the pin changes on every undock....and i guess it could be displayed as an image where each digit uses a different font...like those on forum registration pages....would a macro be able to cope with that?
Yes, what you're suggesting is CAPTCHA and the failure rate is about 70-80%. |
Jeremiaz
Gallente JezCorp
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Posted - 2007.06.08 16:32:00 -
[5]
yeah thanks for that link. that's the sort of thing i was getting at. may not be foolproof but might help some of the way. |
T'Laar Bok
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Posted - 2007.06.08 17:15:00 -
[6]
If Eve implemented CAPTCHA I would bet good isk on people writing giggly little scripts to break it just for the challenge. |
Anaalys Fluuterby
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.06.08 17:23:00 -
[7]
So you want EVERY player to press a series of buttons for the privilege of undocking?
Sounds like a pain in the tail to me Can you imagine the screaming on the forums? <-----------> Factional Warfare:
The LowSec wars which never happened. |
B4NK
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Posted - 2007.06.08 17:37:00 -
[8]
hey hey
the removal of static asteroid belts is a huge step in reducing macro miners. It will at least give them the need to interact first and actually find the belts.
Then ofc we should see less of them . . more likely because we dont know they are there :/
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Fink Angel
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.06.08 17:41:00 -
[9]
Originally by: T'Laar Bok Yes, what you're suggesting is CAPTCHA and the failure rate is about 70-80%.
MY failure rate with these obfuscated character typing boxes is also about 70-80% as I can never read the bloody things, so please no!
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Jeremiaz
Gallente JezCorp
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Posted - 2007.06.08 18:42:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby So you want EVERY player to press a series of buttons for the privilege of undocking?
Sounds like a pain in the tail to me Can you imagine the screaming on the forums?
Well yeah, that's the downside. But if the pin was only 2 digits then its only extra 2 clicks. Anything to make it harder for the macros. |
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Caligulus
Caldari Eve University Ivy League
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Posted - 2007.06.08 19:10:00 -
[11]
The answer is NOT to make the game more tedious for the rest of us that play the game. I'd rather deal with macros then all of these ideas that are presented over and over again that will do nothing but slow a macro down.
There are 2 things to keep in mind when dealing with a macro.
1.) If you can make it, it can be unmade. In other words, there is nothing you can place in game as far as mechanics that will "block" them. It will only slow them down while they reconfigure the program to compensate.
2.) If you want to stop them, you have to kill of the reason for macroing. Otherwise it's like fighting a forest fire with a water pistol.
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Alora Venoda
Caldari GalTech
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Posted - 2007.06.08 19:30:00 -
[12]
they could set up traps like other games do. bots and macros will try to farm them and get in big trouble when they do. just put a fake asteroid in the belt that only a macro would try to mine. and voila, instant macro-detection.
of course, the macros could possibly be improved to watch out for these traps...
~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~ Take away the risk and it would make flying around in space utterly pointless.
Take away the flying around part and you make EVE into a space themed spreadsheet application. |
Gord Ackfordham
Caldari Fenscore Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.06.08 19:57:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Jeremiaz We all know that use of 3rd party utilities to control actions in Eve is against the EULA and yet it still goes on. There are many ways of tackling macro miners; - let them carry on their mining operation, while you "liberate" the ore from their jetcans - bump them out of range of the roids, hoping to confuse and effectively disable the macro, at least for a short time - suicide gank them, hoping you can do enough damage before Concord shows up - petition them to CCP
When I petition a "suspected" macro I usually get a quick reply from a GM saying something along the lines of "Thanks for reporting this. We will investigate. We will close your petition now" and that's the last I hear of it. WouldnĘt it be nice if CCP left the petition open while they investigated and then gave us a reply such as "Our investigation has identified the character as a macro. They have been banned", or "Our investigation show that the character in question is not a macro".
++
if you want to do your part to make empire better, create an anti-macro corp based in a heavily macroed system. make friends. build funds. push the macros out, and hard. if we all do our part to making sure these macros are having a hard time, they will eventually disappear (hopefully).
fenscore enterprises - korama, minedrill station --- feel free to join me, providing i can log into eve again (connection issues). --gordo |
Alski
Gallente Di-Tron Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2007.06.08 20:20:00 -
[14]
I say we should just get cheep single player to single player wardecs that have a 3 notification hour countdown, 24h fighting period and then a 48 hour cooldown before they can be re-dec'd.
Would be fun in more ways than just killing macroers/farmers too. -
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