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Dragy
Caldari Royal Hiigaran Navy
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Posted - 2007.06.12 09:03:00 -
[1]
This's not going to be a long post, rather short, but still a discussion is needed in this department.
Stealth bombers - the only ships that were not given any good use have finally been booster. Every race can now fit 3 launchers and we've got a new bomb launcher, yay !
Everything looks good in the basic concept, but if you think about it more careful, you'll see its flaws.
Each bomb costs 20mil, right ? The cost can be accepted if they have a good use. You need like 4 bombs to kill (at max) a semi-tanked bs. Still could be, but the most important thing that it's a bomb that explodes, goes off ! KABOOM!!! Everything in 15km radius shoudl be dead.
But it isn't ... bombs should not have sig radius. If they need to have 'em give us skills to cut it to 50-100 and modules that would let us do more dmg and overload bomb launcher. It takes almost all shields of a bs, but not even 10-15% of scimitar's shield ... this needs reworking before Rev 2 hits tq.
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Nidus
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.06.12 09:19:00 -
[2]
Bombs are afaik a 0.0 anti blob weapon. The reason for why they deal decreased damage towards smaller ships is because those are already underused for larger scale combat. So letting one or two bombs pop all cruiser sized and below ships caught in their radius would be counter productive towards their intended purpose.
Also, the combination of cost and amount of bombs needed is most likely to make sure that a single freelancing pilot can not blow up 10-15 other ships ß DDD. IE; You need an organized and economical supported group to make effective use of them.
So bombs are more of a 0.0 fleet warfare tool, tough that does not necessarily mean that bombers will be useless for the 0.1-1.0 residents. Now, I will admit that I have not run the numbers, but the idea of a fast warping/moving frigate sized ship with the ability to cloak and having a fairly high volley damage does sound interesting. |
Norris Packard
Wings of Redemption Black Flag Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.12 09:31:00 -
[3]
not sure what ship you are talking about thats fast agile and quick warping, all the bombers i have flown have been quite slow. a bombers speed is slower than the average frig and they have very high mass for frigs so they dont get much from after burners or mwds. also a bombers warp speed is only 3.0 au/s so they are right with battleships in warp speeds.
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Dragy
Caldari Royal Hiigaran Navy
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Posted - 2007.06.12 09:47:00 -
[4]
I bomb will never shoot down a good cruiser pilot. Don't forget that they heavy, slow and made of paper, so i think that they deserve at least good firepower. All the frigs, destroyers can easily run from bomb 'cause they're agile and fast, cruisers and up can take damage.
If 4 bombers jump into a camp (before the fleet) and plant 4 bombs in each sector, they're most likely killed, maybe some will survive, but i surely doubt. That's why they NEED to do equal damage for every ship.
Imagine a smartbomb with sig radius or dd ... kinda pathetic.
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The RepoMan
Caldari Red Horizon Inc Red Horizon
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Posted - 2007.06.12 09:55:00 -
[5]
Bombs are an anti blob measure, they arent a lol your small gang is too close together hahaha NOOBZ weapon. You wont be seeing them in small combat, you'll be seeing them in massive blobs and super lag environments, pretty much as suicide bombers, but more fun than blobbing.
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Carniflex
Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project
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Posted - 2007.06.12 10:06:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Nidus So bombs are more of a 0.0 fleet warfare tool, tough that does not necessarily mean that bombers will be useless for the 0.1-1.0 residents. Now, I will admit that I have not run the numbers, but the idea of a fast warping/moving frigate sized ship with the ability to cloak and having a fairly high volley damage does sound interesting.
I might have misreaded something, but as I understand it's not possible to launch bombs in low/high sec.
I myself think they will get used in 0.0 bigger conflicts. They might not be able to pop ships in one blast but they would be quite good for softening enemy up a bit before fleet battle starts.
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Alfred Vongunn
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Posted - 2007.06.12 10:21:00 -
[7]
Well to be true stealth bombers they should get the covert ops cloak and be able to drop these bombs while cloaked and not have it uncloak them by it's presence. But thats just me thinking Stealth actually has a meaning:)
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Ghan Tylous
The Graduates Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2007.06.12 11:19:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Carniflex
I might have misreaded something, but as I understand it's not possible to launch bombs in low/high sec.
I don't think the Devs ever intend to bombs be used in high-sec. Imagine the outcry. But can't find the post right now but it have been said that bombs is going to be only allowed in 0.0 but a bit unsure if they want to allow them in low-sec. --- It have always fallen to a few to sacrifice for the good of many
Originally by: CCP Sharkbait we are screwed.
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alexreborn
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Posted - 2007.06.12 12:10:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Alfred Vongunn Well to be true stealth bombers they should get the covert ops cloak and be able to drop these bombs while cloaked and not have it uncloak them by it's presence. But thats just me thinking Stealth actually has a meaning:)
I agree.
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ReePeR McAllem
The Carebear Stare
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Posted - 2007.06.12 13:03:00 -
[10]
Edited by: ReePeR McAllem on 12/06/2007 13:02:23
Originally by: alexreborn
Originally by: Alfred Vongunn Well to be true stealth bombers they should get the covert ops cloak and be able to drop these bombs while cloaked and not have it uncloak them by it's presence. But thats just me thinking Stealth actually has a meaning:)
I agree.
I disagree. If this were the case, then pirates could go out in large gangs of stealth bombers that drop multipul bombs while STILL remaining cloaked... then warping off after they cause oblivion.
Think about it... seriously.
Ed. Typos from sheer shock
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Rigsta
Gallente Raddick Explorations Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2007.06.12 13:06:00 -
[11]
Originally by: alexreborn
Originally by: Alfred Vongunn Well to be true stealth bombers they should get the covert ops cloak and be able to drop these bombs while cloaked and not have it uncloak them by it's presence. But thats just me thinking Stealth actually has a meaning:)
I agree.
It would also completely unbalance them :/
Base salvo damage with covert ops IV, cruise missiles V and all other missile skills at level IV is 1,821 when using racial missiles (eg. thermal for gallente).
The bombers are sluggish for a frigate but their warp speed (and range) is now fixed. They're difficult to fit, especially for speed, but you can launch from 40km and re-cloak almost immediately with few problems.
The changes are also still in development and testing on Sisi so nothing's final. But atm they're great fun if you learn the proper way to fly them.
Originally by: Jim McGregor I felt the disturbance... it was like a million voices suddenly stopped whining for a second. Unfortunantly it then continued.
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Starraker
KDM Corp Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.06.12 13:07:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Starraker on 12/06/2007 13:06:20 The only thing I would like to see is that they increase the blast radius to dread size and the damage accordingly. So that BS/cruiser/frig still take the same damage. But you can actually hurt the capitals a bit. Because if you can damage a cap ship with it, the high price tag would be so worth it. I think anything else is OK with tha bomb. Maybe the damage will be increased a bit later. I got the feeling they are implementing them pre-nerfed. I could be wrong though.
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Belenkas
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Posted - 2007.06.12 13:25:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Rigsta The bombers are sluggish for a frigate but their warp speed (and range) is now fixed. They're difficult to fit, especially for speed, but you can launch from 40km and re-cloak almost immediately with few problems.
Now dunno what you talking about here really. If you fire cruise missiles and then cloak immediately, the missile will just get lost, never hit target so you must stay uncloaked until it hits. Bombs on the other hand dont move at all and I really don't see it being that much worth to put 20mil worth ship plus 20mil worth bomb for damage that barely scratches battleship. Used in groups, they could probably kill several battleships if they all close together but that will cost well over 200mil pricetag of the suicidebombers so it really is very limited to cases where you sure as hell going to make lots of damage. With that said, I don't think many will bother training the bombs, thus really limiting the use of them(needs atleast 5 stealthbombers to do ANY damage worth mentioning, with that damage costing you more than 5 doomsday launches).
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Masu'di
Es and Whizz Hedonistic Imperative
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Posted - 2007.06.12 13:37:00 -
[14]
probably wishful thinking, but i'd love to see the bombs keep on travelling at the same speed and direction of the ship when released.
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Rigsta
Gallente Raddick Explorations Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2007.06.12 13:41:00 -
[15]
That has been suggested, but think of lag and the fact that you'll eat your own bombs more often than not. Right now you have to fit and overload a MWD to get out of bomb range after launching, or just warp out right after launching.
Originally by: Jim McGregor I felt the disturbance... it was like a million voices suddenly stopped whining for a second. Unfortunantly it then continued.
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Brady
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Posted - 2007.06.12 13:47:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Masu'di probably wishful thinking, but i'd love to see the bombs keep on travelling at the same speed and direction of the ship when released.
Now this sounds good (Even better if the bomber has a built in mini speed boost (bomb run anyone)). Nothing too overpowering, just a 50/100ms boost to basic speed, that only lasts 10secs. Perhaps limit cloak during bomb run?
Could even put a timer on the bomb, so it detonates at a set range?
umm few possible exploits of this feature though.
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Alfred Vongunn
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Posted - 2007.06.12 13:49:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Rigsta
Originally by: alexreborn
Originally by: Alfred Vongunn Well to be true stealth bombers they should get the covert ops cloak and be able to drop these bombs while cloaked and not have it uncloak them by it's presence. But thats just me thinking Stealth actually has a meaning:)
I agree.
It would also completely unbalance them :/
Base salvo damage with covert ops IV, cruise missiles V and all other missile skills at level IV is 1,821 when using racial missiles (eg. thermal for gallente).
The bombers are sluggish for a frigate but their warp speed (and range) is now fixed. They're difficult to fit, especially for speed, but you can launch from 40km and re-cloak almost immediately with few problems.
The changes are also still in development and testing on Sisi so nothing's final. But atm they're great fun if you learn the proper way to fly them.
THats at current damage levels though. But a little more thought when they started this could have done BOTH.. made them actual Stealth bombers
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Nidus
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.06.12 13:53:00 -
[18]
For:
Originally by: Norris Packard not sure what ship you are talking about thats fast agile and quick warping, all the bombers i have flown have been quite slow. a bombers speed is slower than the average frig and they have very high mass for frigs so they dont get much from after burners or mwds. also a bombers warp speed is only 3.0 au/s so they are right with battleships in warp speeds.
and other replies regarding warpspeed;
Originally by: CCP Fendahl Thanks for pointing this out. The stealth bombers are supposed to warp as fast as other frigates, so the warp speed has been increased to 6AU/s. Additionally the Manticore and the Hound had incorrect multipliers for warp capacitor need, which also have been fixed. Cheers.
Taken from the Game Dev. Forum
There was also a thread regarding "nano bombers" as the dev's where playing around with higher base speed on the ships to allow higher movement speed while cloaked which gave them the drawback of reaching Crow like speeds with an MWD active. ------------------- (::) - This is a cookie with chocolate chips, its mine! If you disagree; these are my teeth ';..;' ~nya!
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Dragy
Caldari Royal Hiigaran Navy
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Posted - 2007.06.13 12:40:00 -
[19]
I think that with the 15 second delay, a bomb should be able to kill a frigate or destroyer ... with good skills it does like 800 dmg to the ceptor, raw damage and after resistances it'll still be alive. That's unfair, since he was dumb enough to not notice the bomb, he should suffer the consequences.
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Donathan Slade
Kay Korporation Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2007.06.13 14:04:00 -
[20]
Have they said ANYTHING about having bombs show up on overview at all? If not, .... sux and they deserve to not do more damage.
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JaxxFunk
Minmatar Macabre Votum INVICTUS.
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Posted - 2007.06.13 15:02:00 -
[21]
Edited by: JaxxFunk on 13/06/2007 15:12:20
Originally by: Belenkas
...If you fire cruise missiles and then cloak immediately, the missile will just get lost, never hit target so you must stay uncloaked until it hits...
Wrong.
You aint seen me...right |
pylons38
Aliastra
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Posted - 2007.06.13 15:17:00 -
[22]
Originally by: JaxxFunk Edited by: JaxxFunk on 13/06/2007 15:12:20
Originally by: Belenkas
...If you fire cruise missiles and then cloak immediately, the missile will just get lost, never hit target so you must stay uncloaked until it hits...
Wrong.
They fixed that?
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Dragy
Caldari Royal Hiigaran Navy
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Posted - 2007.06.13 16:59:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Donathan Slade Have they said ANYTHING about having bombs show up on overview at all? If not, .... sux and they deserve to not do more damage.
Nope, they don't. And a large smartbomb can kill it in 1 shot and an interceptor can run in 2-3 secs so they should do more damage or just remove the sig radius, whichi is hilarious.
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