Pages: [1] :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Tanksmann
|
Posted - 2007.06.12 16:52:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Tanksmann on 12/06/2007 16:52:36 I was wondering why the gang assist modules have such high cap cost and if anyone else has thought this was a problem?
I have to fit a cap power relay or two to compensate for the 3 gang mods running on my ship. In pvp I don't like wasting slots on stuff that doesnt either give me more tank or more gank, I have a cap injector for cap but can't waste charges just to keep it all running. Cap skills @ 4/5 but i do have MWD fitted. Should I just wait until action starts and turn the modules on and use the cap booster to keep everything running smoothly?
Was thinking it would be nice to get a skill that reduces the cap usage of these things by maybe 10% per lvl, Rank 3 or 4 skill.
Agree/Disagree?
|
Donathan Slade
Kay Korporation Knights Of the Southerncross
|
Posted - 2007.06.12 17:38:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Donathan Slade on 12/06/2007 17:38:06 1) your running 3 in a command ship.. 2) Command ships with 3 are not meant to be ganking. 3) you should be in the FC/WC position in your fleet. 4) Don't run them ALL the time, only run them during the 2 min of combat.
As per the reason they COST so much is because of the insane bonus they give. Yeah, ok. its for instance... Siege Warfare Link - Shield Harmonizing. This gives 2% shield resists to EVERYBODY under you who gets bonuses (that is if they are active). as a full WC with 5... thats 50 people with 2% shield resists boost. Now, add 100% per lvl of the siege skill. So at lvl 4 siege thats 8% shield. Add advanced warefar link.. thats another 100% per lvl. asumining mimum of 4 lvl for command ship.. thats 1.02 * 5.00 * 5.00 = 25.5% shield resists to ALL resist types to ALL people who have active. Now, put that ontop of caldari shield tanks, or even a dread..... nuff said.
Oh, and thats just 1 mod.. Now have that for armor resist and skirmish so all those interceptors fly around like crayz.. or just shield boosting ... 3 ?? yeah, it will eat those injectors but its SOOO worth it.
|
Nian Banks
Minmatar Berserkers of Aesir
|
Posted - 2007.06.12 18:26:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Donathan Slade Edited by: Donathan Slade on 12/06/2007 17:38:06 1) your running 3 in a command ship.. 2) Command ships with 3 are not meant to be ganking. 3) you should be in the FC/WC position in your fleet. 4) Don't run them ALL the time, only run them during the 2 min of combat.
As per the reason they COST so much is because of the insane bonus they give. Yeah, ok. its for instance... Siege Warfare Link - Shield Harmonizing. This gives 2% shield resists to EVERYBODY under you who gets bonuses (that is if they are active). as a full WC with 5... thats 50 people with 2% shield resists boost. Now, add 100% per lvl of the siege skill. So at lvl 4 siege thats 8% shield. Add advanced warefar link.. thats another 100% per lvl. asumining mimum of 4 lvl for command ship.. thats 1.02 * 5.00 * 5.00 = 25.5% shield resists to ALL resist types to ALL people who have active. Now, put that ontop of caldari shield tanks, or even a dread..... nuff said.
Oh, and thats just 1 mod.. Now have that for armor resist and skirmish so all those interceptors fly around like crayz.. or just shield boosting ... 3 ?? yeah, it will eat those injectors but its SOOO worth it.
True, they are very very powerful, but lets be honest, if a ship is designed to use 3 gang modules, surely that same ship should have the capacitor to run them.
I wouldn't go for a skill to reduce the cap though, I would much rather all Fleet Command Ships get a -50% cap requirement for gang modules.
Truthfully, yes they do take far too much capacitor, and if your flying a command ship with an active tank bonus then you lack the cap to run your repairer/booster for very long. CS's are meant to tank, so they need the cap to do that.
|
MassonA
Caldari coracao ardente Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2007.06.12 18:33:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Nian Banks CS's are meant to tank, so they need the cap to do that.
qft
no mods please |
Malena
Perpetual Dawn
|
Posted - 2007.06.12 18:58:00 -
[5]
I disagree. If you are going to 'take one for the team" and fit gang mods, then you do so knowing you are giving up a good shot at kill mail appearance, or that your survivability is going to be nil...in short you are giving up a better chance for you personally so that the team has a better chance.
Now, all of that being said, I too would like to see a new skill or bonus related to command ships, but instead of just a cap requirement reduction, perhaps something that reduces the amount of cap used per member you are actively giving the bonusses too. I hesitate to mention something that will only add another calculation to the servers, but it seems like these calculations are already being done. The system checks to see if you have the skills to run a squadron or wing or fleet, and it checks to see who is actually in system to actually get the bonus, so checking to see how much cap to use for that particular cycle might not be that much more?
Alternatively, you could have higher levels of gang skills increase the cycle time of the command links... like half a second longer for each level of squadron, wing and fleet command. This has the benefit of giving a reward for training those skills other than just being able to give bonusses to a massive fleet, which you may or may not always have access to. I would take a 7.5 second longer command link cycle time over a big pile of nothing anyday.
|
Cilppiz
FinFleet
|
Posted - 2007.06.12 19:05:00 -
[6]
3x Gangmods and 2x Invul II will run nicely on Claymore with help of 2x CCC rigs and 2x Power Diag II, that will leave you enough PG for AC's with 2x Gyro. So not really gank, but with only 5 guns and 1 damagebonus from ship cant expect more. Running XL- Shield Booster on the side might be tricky but Large Shield Booster runs nonstop with no problem as long as you have cap charges spare. This is ofcourse with MWD and otherwise full combat fitting.
I have to agree that running all 3 gangmods does have quite effect on ones cap and I cant imagine any of commandships running gangmods and tank (not even mentioning guns what it comes to amarr and gallente) without cap injector. Should they be able? Judgign how gangmods work Im not sure if CCP ment commandships to be on front with rest or huggle in POS, after all mods dont work during warps thats atleast with Skirmish mods huge disadvantage.
|
Tanksmann
|
Posted - 2007.06.12 19:55:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Malena I disagree. If you are going to 'take one for the team" and fit gang mods, then you do so knowing you are giving up a good shot at kill mail appearance, or that your survivability is going to be nil...in short you are giving up a better chance for you personally so that the team has a better chance.
Now, all of that being said, I too would like to see a new skill or bonus related to command ships, but instead of just a cap requirement reduction, perhaps something that reduces the amount of cap used per member you are actively giving the bonusses too. I hesitate to mention something that will only add another calculation to the servers, but it seems like these calculations are already being done. The system checks to see if you have the skills to run a squadron or wing or fleet, and it checks to see who is actually in system to actually get the bonus, so checking to see how much cap to use for that particular cycle might not be that much more?
Alternatively, you could have higher levels of gang skills increase the cycle time of the command links... like half a second longer for each level of squadron, wing and fleet command. This has the benefit of giving a reward for training those skills other than just being able to give bonusses to a massive fleet, which you may or may not always have access to. I would take a 7.5 second longer command link cycle time over a big pile of nothing anyday.
I disagree based on the fact that its easier for the command ships with passive resist bonuses to handle the cap consumption. But on my eos which has a 7.5% bonus to active armor tanking it'd be a shame not to use it, which is a cap hungry bonus.
Command ships dont need more cap, or better recharge, but a -50% cap usage for gang assist mods would be incredible.
I'm not worried about the "kill mail appearance" you speak of, and I dont want to "gank and tank". Just run my support mods and have the cap to soak up damage when the need arises. With the tanking bonus I have Nano Pumps fitted but the cap problems are seriously making me think about fitting some CCC
|
Donathan Slade
Kay Korporation Knights Of the Southerncross
|
Posted - 2007.06.12 20:35:00 -
[8]
Yeah, cap ships (carriers/titans) don't hurt when fitting a mod because its so easy for them to get the cap back. However, command ships are support ships. And if your in a system, can sit at a pos or whatever, or sit somewhere. They arn't meant to be in the heat of battle (the 3x command mod ones anyway). If you REALLY want, you can fit 4 if you get command processor. But based on the requirements and time to get lvl 5 advanced warfare link its almost pointless unless your a carrier/mothership/titan pilot.
To respond to an earlier poster... EoS wasting your tank bonuses? Well, Armor resist or armor rep link equiped is like spending cap on yourself as a long as your WC/SC. FC's don't get their own bonuses. Remember, you only have to be in the system, not in the same grid.
cap injectors ftw. :P
|
tartrus
|
Posted - 2007.06.13 03:35:00 -
[9]
on my claymore i hav all 3 skirmish links active and i sit at about 56% cap. thats with one cap recharger and a pdu(wich ever one give the bonus i forget at work so i cant check) i go with the fleet setup. i hav 80% res across the board.
3 links 5x 650's tremor sit about 70k form battle. 9/10 peeps dont call cs primary unless hes/shes smart :D sb2 pasive tank dcu 2 2 resistance rigs. i look at the money of it
a 30% rig cost 8 mill a cc rig is 20 mill. it cheaper to use the 30% rig and then put a cap charger in the mid tbh.
also pls shhh hehe i dont wanna loose a mod on my cs i like the way it is dont talk about link cap used less per lvl thingy unless they wanna hav 5 mods :D
|
herr Jortikka
Gallente Interstellar Galactic Exploration
|
Posted - 2007.06.13 05:27:00 -
[10]
I can fit 6 gang mods to eos and run them and mar T2 non-stop, and this was before rigs. only down side was that I had to fit af instead of mwd.
|
|
Hllaxiu
Shiva Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2007.06.13 06:44:00 -
[11]
Originally by: herr Jortikka I can fit 6 gang mods to eos and run them and mar T2 non-stop, and this was before rigs. only down side was that I had to fit af instead of mwd.
How? 6 gangmods = 300tf, "and run them" -> 3x command procs = 450tf. this is 750tf, and requires 33% of cpu increase from the 562.5tf you get at electronics 5. Using 3 co-procs that needs 10.6% from each, which is above t2, so you need 4 to get the cpu you need.
6 gang mods require 30 cap/s. Peak cap recharge on an Eos without cap mods is 18 cap/s. To get it above 30 in 1 mod would require a 40% cap boost. To have a MAR running you'd need a low slot (your one remaining one from the cpu mods), so you have two meds. To run the gang mods you'd need a pair of 22.5% cap mods. To run them and the MAR you'd need another 17.7 worth of regen, and with the 2 slots that'd be 38.57% cap rechargers.
Oh wait, you're also claiming to have an afterburner on there - that means that you need a 62% cap mod for that single free med slot you have. --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson |
Hllaxiu
Shiva Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2007.06.13 06:51:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Donathan Slade 1) your running 3 in a command ship.. 2) Command ships with 3 are not meant to be ganking. 3) you should be in the FC/WC position in your fleet. 4) Don't run them ALL the time, only run them during the 2 min of combat.
As per the reason they COST so much is because of the insane bonus they give. Yeah, ok. its for instance... Siege Warfare Link - Shield Harmonizing. This gives 2% shield resists to EVERYBODY under you who gets bonuses (that is if they are active). as a full WC with 5... thats 50 people with 2% shield resists boost. Now, add 100% per lvl of the siege skill. So at lvl 4 siege thats 8% shield. Add advanced warefar link.. thats another 100% per lvl. asumining mimum of 4 lvl for command ship.. thats 1.02 * 5.00 * 5.00 = 25.5% shield resists to ALL resist types to ALL people who have active. Now, put that ontop of caldari shield tanks, or even a dread..... nuff said.
Oh, and thats just 1 mod.. Now have that for armor resist and skirmish so all those interceptors fly around like crayz.. or just shield boosting ... 3 ?? yeah, it will eat those injectors but its SOOO worth it.
In your example "nuff said" is unfortunately not enough. All gang modules are stacking penalized. For dreads and "caldari shield tanks" this module would likely be the 4th in the stacking priority, so it wouldn't do much of anything.
The larger battles that these ships are intended ("fleet" actions) routinely have 2 minute module activation delays. You're going to be running the mods for quite a long time in those situations. And of course, that 25% shield bonus is going to help a lot when each individual battleship in your formation gets hit by 30+ fleet battleships within a few seconds of each other. In higher lag situations you'll get a bit longer to warp out, maybe. --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson |
|
Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
|
Posted - 2007.06.13 08:54:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Chribba on 13/06/2007 08:52:48 While I don't use it for PVP I don't have the problem of needing to fit for a tank or similar - I run 7 gang modules and with the setup my cap is steady around 50-55%
Help me help you. |
|
Donathan Slade
Kay Korporation Knights Of the Southerncross
|
Posted - 2007.06.13 12:59:00 -
[14]
Originally by: herr Jortikka I can fit 6 gang mods to eos and run them and mar T2 non-stop, and this was before rigs. only down side was that I had to fit af instead of mwd.
I call bs.
|
LUKEC
Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2007.06.13 13:05:00 -
[15]
Edited by: LUKEC on 13/06/2007 13:04:33
Originally by: Donathan Slade
Originally by: herr Jortikka I can fit 6 gang mods to eos and run them and mar T2 non-stop, and this was before rigs. only down side was that I had to fit af instead of mwd.
I call bs.
I call molle. And Hegemon. Then perhaps ... oh wait i'm nearly squad member.
Eos with 5/5 skills can barely run 3 with t2 recharger fitted and mwd.
For me, more annoying feature is turning them off while in warp. -------- I tanked D2 capital fleet and all I got was truncated Erebus mail.
|
Malena
Perpetual Dawn
|
Posted - 2007.06.13 18:31:00 -
[16]
Chribba, It is a bit off the subject, but are you using vulture or eos? And do you have to use Estamel's CPUs to get it to work? I can get 6 to run infinitely, but just can't seem to squeeze the cpu for the 4th command proc and 7th link...(currently using Kaikka's CPUs)
|
|
Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
|
Posted - 2007.06.13 18:42:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Malena Chribba, It is a bit off the subject, but are you using vulture or eos? And do you have to use Estamel's CPUs to get it to work? I can get 6 to run infinitely, but just can't seem to squeeze the cpu for the 4th command proc and 7th link...(currently using Kaikka's CPUs)
Damnation, with fitting:
Hi: 7x Gang links (duh) Mid: 4x Command Processors Low: 4x Caldari Nacy Co-Processor, 2x True Sansha Cap Relays Rigs: 2x CCC (Tech1)
Help me help you. |
|
Malena
Perpetual Dawn
|
Posted - 2007.06.13 19:12:00 -
[18]
ahhh....all those extra lows over the vulture... thanks
|
Hllaxiu
Shiva Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2007.06.13 20:53:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Malena ahhh....all those extra lows over the vulture... thanks
Claymore can do it too, due to its high base cpu. You need rigs or one faction/office cpu and cap mod to do it though. --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson |
|
|
|
Pages: [1] :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |