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Fairlee
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Posted - 2007.06.14 02:55:00 -
[1]
In revelation II, level 5 agents are coming out, but theres a problem.. I read from a post from a dev that they will require groups to complete. Why is eve turning more and more into group play game? Why do i have to depend on some other person to enjoy my game? I have a question..
Will level 5 missions be as profitable as a solo person would profit from a level 4 mission because now that level 5 missions will require team play? That means you have to split the isk with him and that reduces the profit by 50% (fairly) if the mission only requires one additional person (hopefully because I have 2 accounts with a alt trained for logistics so it really wont affect me).
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Jita Alt
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Posted - 2007.06.14 03:23:00 -
[2]
MMORPG: Massive Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game Notice the multi bit that's hiding in there?
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Callthetruth
Caldari Logical Logtistics
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Posted - 2007.06.14 04:10:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Fairlee In revelation II, level 5 agents are coming out, but theres a problem.. I read from a post from a dev that they will require groups to complete. Why is eve turning more and more into group play game? Why do i have to depend on some other person to enjoy my game? I have a question..
Will level 5 missions be as profitable as a solo person would profit from a level 4 mission because now that level 5 missions will require team play? That means you have to split the isk with him and that reduces the profit by 50% (fairly) if the mission only requires one additional person (hopefully because I have 2 accounts with a alt trained for logistics so it really wont affect me).
Yup 90% are gropu ops ( level 4 is where solo play ends) u will probably need officer fitted BS or capital ships to finish ( They are anti farmer - good move using an alt from what ive seen bad idea ISK rewards will be very low ( Note inflation is being combated here by providing more assets, minerals, t2 production items, blueprint copies, rig parts etc) so they will be asset rich ISK poor missions with pretty good LP
and they will bhe low sec so u had better get used to going multiplayer or stick to lv 4s
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Christopher Dalran
Gallente Deadly Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.14 14:03:00 -
[4]
I think Logistics pilots might be in high demand, they realy got a significant boost. ------------------------------- C.D's Formula for success ------------------------------- Credit Card = Game Time Card Gametime Card = ISK Therefore Credit Card = ISK.
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Malena
Perpetual Dawn
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Posted - 2007.06.14 17:29:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Christopher Dalran I think Logistics pilots might be in high demand, they realy got a significant boost.
Yes they did, and it is about stinkin' time too. So, I have maxxed out skills on anything even remotely related to fitting and using a basilisk and oneiros, anyone want to hire me? :)
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MotherMoon
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Posted - 2007.06.14 18:15:00 -
[6]
um.. this is the sillest post I have ever seen
this would be like asking WoW to let you solo a raid..
note the word RAID
as in you need 40 people
it hasn't gotten this high you could do it with 4-6 people. which is good because 40 man raid sounds horrible. like a spam attack with no tactics.
you need to mix and match
remember EvE is an RTS type MMORPG you can send one zerg into a base and axpect it to do anything. you need a zergling rush.
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MotherMoon
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Posted - 2007.06.14 18:16:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Fairlee In revelation II, level 5 agents are coming out, but theres a problem.. I read from a post from a dev that they will require groups to complete. Why is eve turning more and more into group play game? Why do i have to depend on some other person to enjoy my game? I have a question..
Will level 5 missions be as profitable as a solo person would profit from a level 4 mission because now that level 5 missions will require team play? That means you have to split the isk with him and that reduces the profit by 50% (fairly) if the mission only requires one additional person (hopefully because I have 2 accounts with a alt trained for logistics so it really wont affect me).
oh and, it's redices the porfit by 50%? yes it does and it halfs the time it takes to finish the mission
have you ever play any MMOs?
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Fairlee
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Posted - 2007.06.16 16:59:00 -
[8]
Keep in mind to all you people that are trying to explain to me what a MMO is and what EVE is about, that ive been playing this game since beta 5 so I think i know a thing or two about it. Im a lone wolf type guy and just because this game is called a MMO doesn't mean that it will require team play. Ive been lonewolf for many years and have done well.
Now since both my accounts can fly capitals, I do not mind the level 5 missions. More importantly, the main question I was trying to get answered was the profit part.
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Xtro 2
Caldari Pre-nerfed Tactics
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Posted - 2007.06.16 17:43:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Fairlee Keep in mind to all you people that are trying to explain to me what a MMO is and what EVE is about, that ive been playing this game since beta 5 so I think i know a thing or two about it. Im a lone wolf type guy and just because this game is called a MMO doesn't mean that it will require team play. Ive been lonewolf for many years and have done well.
Now since both my accounts can fly capitals, I do not mind the level 5 missions. More importantly, the main question I was trying to get answered was the profit part.
then stick to lvl4's, where does it say i HAVE to do lvl5's?
Xtro 2 - Tactically Insane Tradesman. Insanity, or madness, is a semi-permanent, severe mental disorder. |
VeniVici
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Posted - 2007.06.17 23:02:00 -
[10]
Well I've been running L5's with some friends today. 2xRaven, 2xDrake. Ya we're mission runners, so yes its all about the money.
What we've found, the missions take forever, some have 1000cap/s nos in them (which goes nicely with the nerf on passive shield tanking [i.e. the Drake] seeing as passive is the only way to go in these without logistics ships backing you). But all in all they weren't all that hard, only very very annoying in that the WoW paradigm of making things harder by giving them ludicrous tanks, and modules that break the game and no one else can have.
We didn't stay and mine and salvage, so the total "value" of the missions aren't well reflected. Out of 6 missions, we only ran into 1 with bounties in it. So in terms of making money efficiently they are garbage, as to do so you have to run the mission then come back and loot and salvage. For us, being a mix of PvP, carebear mission runner, and Manufacturer, there was no reason to do these as the time invested did not come close to our return on investment.
On top of all this, the LP/Isk rewards for the missions were only marginally better than L4's (20%). Now considering that we could only finish 1 mission w/ the dps we had, and that one alone took 2 hours, there is no reason whatsoever to do these missions.
As there are T2 ships, I assume there's a chance of T2 salvage, but frankly, once you split up anything gained by 5 people, you're looking at Level 3 sized loot for the time you spend.
It seems that CCP's PvE designers have decided to create yet another case where reward is minimal, and the risk is extreme. Mind you, this is all part of their "nudge" to PvP, but frankly you'll need a bigger carrot to get people flying these missions. Of course the other solution is to nerf level 4's so that you just beat your entire carebear playerbase into submission.
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Plokk
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Posted - 2007.06.17 23:07:00 -
[11]
I concur . Level 5's are a (another) waste of time in the game . One step forward , 2 backwards in EVE . That's all i've seen this past 8 months . I origionally joined EVE for the lone fact you could do so many different things in the game , i had never seen a game with so many paths to take . But now it's narrowed to 3-4 paths .... sad , CCP had it right a year ago. Now ????
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Adrian Darke
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Posted - 2007.06.17 23:11:00 -
[12]
Well i must say im disapointed.... a so called difficult lvl 5 able to be done by a Raven and a Rokh? its pathetic..... The Nos is irritating, but with 3-4 Large shield transfers, you can tank the damage with no hardeners, and the bounties arnt terribly great either, 5 mill for a Carrier that takes about 2000+ Torps to take down? Ive seen better bounties on lvl 4's. Another problems gonna be the Lag, and ofcourse the pirates deciding to camp the mission stations/gates, or searching for the missions. Dont get me wrong i know what low sec is, and i know thats what people do to enjoy the game, but it seems to me that the systems that the few lvl 5 agents are in are going to become very busy very quickly, well thats if you can be bothered lol. I think im gonna stick to lvl 4's.
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F90OEX
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Posted - 2007.06.17 23:16:00 -
[13]
^^^ Yeah, can't say out of the 6-7 missions we looked at, none of them there enjoyable or exciting...
All I can say is , if the lag or gate gank squads don't kill you.. everything Veni said will.
Btw isk and bounties are all over the place in range.
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Metallion1
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Posted - 2007.06.17 23:26:00 -
[14]
Hahaha , yeah , CCP needs a time out :)
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Keira Fordring
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2007.06.17 23:57:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Jita Alt MMORPG: Massive Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game Notice the multi bit that's hiding in there?
Multiplayer DOES NOT mean forced grouping. All it means is there are more people than just you playing the game.
Repeat after me: multiplayer =/= group
When you were little (assuming you're not anymore) and went to the arcade, did you ever put two quarters in the machine and choose "multiplayer"? Did both of you play in a group or one after the other?
Repeat after me: multiplayer =/= group
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MotherMoon
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Posted - 2007.06.18 00:38:00 -
[16]
are you the person that got ****ed when they couldn't solo a raid in EVERY mmorpg ever made?
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MotherMoon
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Posted - 2007.06.18 00:42:00 -
[17]
Originally by: VeniVici Well I've been running L5's with some friends today. 2xRaven, 2xDrake. Ya we're mission runners, so yes its all about the money.
What we've found, the missions take forever, some have 1000cap/s nos in them (which goes nicely with the nerf on passive shield tanking [i.e. the Drake] seeing as passive is the only way to go in these without logistics ships backing you). But all in all they weren't all that hard, only very very annoying in that the WoW paradigm of making things harder by giving them ludicrous tanks, and modules that break the game and no one else can have.
We didn't stay and mine and salvage, so the total "value" of the missions aren't well reflected. Out of 6 missions, we only ran into 1 with bounties in it. So in terms of making money efficiently they are garbage, as to do so you have to run the mission then come back and loot and salvage. For us, being a mix of PvP, carebear mission runner, and Manufacturer, there was no reason to do these as the time invested did not come close to our return on investment.
On top of all this, the LP/Isk rewards for the missions were only marginally better than L4's (20%). Now considering that we could only finish 1 mission w/ the dps we had, and that one alone took 2 hours, there is no reason whatsoever to do these missions.
As there are T2 ships, I assume there's a chance of T2 salvage, but frankly, once you split up anything gained by 5 people, you're looking at Level 3 sized loot for the time you spend.
It seems that CCP's PvE designers have decided to create yet another case where reward is minimal, and the risk is extreme. Mind you, this is all part of their "nudge" to PvP, but frankly you'll need a bigger carrot to get people flying these missions. Of course the other solution is to nerf level 4's so that you just beat your entire carebear playerbase into submission.
your ignoring the new implants and faction items that you can only get by gathering tags and lp for the LP store they aren't an isk pay out they are a faction payout
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MotherMoon
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Posted - 2007.06.18 00:47:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Keira Fordring
Originally by: Jita Alt MMORPG: Massive Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game Notice the multi bit that's hiding in there?
Multiplayer DOES NOT mean forced grouping. All it means is there are more people than just you playing the game.
Repeat after me: multiplayer =/= group
When you were little (assuming you're not anymore) and went to the arcade, did you ever put two quarters in the machine and choose "multiplayer"? Did both of you play in a group or one after the other?
Repeat after me: multiplayer =/= group
um not quite I COULD try to play X-men arcade game solo but it wasn't as much fun and near to impossible but with a group! I saved money, had more fun, and left happy
Players where asking for missions for cap ships and stuff for groups
the rewards aare not at the lvl a signal player would care about
sure you can solo in a logtisics ship but you won't
by the way, can you solo in WoW? no well like EVE you CAN but your never going to get any of pretty armor unless you waste your life
I don't like WoW anymore, buyt there high end missions were fun I think EvE could make cooler mission that span places other than empty space and take logtisics and so forth
oh and the the ravens would get ****ed if you couldn't run high lvl missions as warriors in every MMO ever made??
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F90OEX
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Posted - 2007.06.18 00:49:00 -
[19]
^^ Maybe, but run a few lvl 5 missions and you will know what where talking about ..
also might be a faction payout, but guess what, most will end up back on the market sold for ISK ..
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VeniVici
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Posted - 2007.06.18 01:05:00 -
[20]
Edited by: VeniVici on 18/06/2007 01:05:22
Originally by: MotherMoon
your ignoring the new implants and faction items that you can only get by gathering tags and lp for the LP store they aren't an isk pay out they are a faction payout
Now correct me if I'm wrong, existing offers already required tags. The general populous didn't know it then.
Also, look at how many tags you need, look at how many people you need to run a level 5, and then look at what tags you can get from Enemies Abound L4.
On top of that, guess what, I already have all the faction tags I need on tranquility for the LP store offers...and I didn't even need a Level 5 to get them hmmm....funny that.
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Keira Fordring
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2007.06.18 02:47:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Keira Fordring on 18/06/2007 02:47:02
Originally by: MotherMoon
Originally by: Keira Fordring
Originally by: Jita Alt MMORPG: Massive Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game Notice the multi bit that's hiding in there?
Multiplayer DOES NOT mean forced grouping. All it means is there are more people than just you playing the game.
Repeat after me: multiplayer =/= group
When you were little (assuming you're not anymore) and went to the arcade, did you ever put two quarters in the machine and choose "multiplayer"? Did both of you play in a group or one after the other?
Repeat after me: multiplayer =/= group
um not quite I COULD try to play X-men arcade game solo but it wasn't as much fun and near to impossible but with a group! I saved money, had more fun, and left happy
Players where asking for missions for cap ships and stuff for groups
the rewards aare not at the lvl a signal player would care about
sure you can solo in a logtisics ship but you won't
by the way, can you solo in WoW? no well like EVE you CAN but your never going to get any of pretty armor unless you waste your life
I don't like WoW anymore, buyt there high end missions were fun I think EvE could make cooler mission that span places other than empty space and take logtisics and so forth
oh and the the ravens would get ****ed if you couldn't run high lvl missions as warriors in every MMO ever made??
Not sure exactly what point you're arguing here. All I was commenting on what that the multiplayer in MMORPG does not imply grouped activity. All it means is "more than one player".
As far as WoW, yes you can solo. There is plenty of content for the solo player just as there is in EvE. Obviously you can't see all the content solo but you certainly can solo.
BTW: I was able to tank all the aggro in one L5 in my BC (I won't say which so there are some L5 missions that are possible to solo. It just takes a long, long time. Luckily I had Veni, F90 and Plokk to kill things while I absorbed all the damage.
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Not Bait
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Posted - 2007.06.18 03:02:00 -
[22]
The new missions are certainly craptastic for ISK and LP after everything is split between 2-4 people. And tags are sort of icky as well, very few items in the LP stores require tags.
But what about the storyline rewards? I haven't heard anything about those. I'd still like to cling to a shred of hope that L5's will be worth doing, and it's looking like the L5 storylines are all I've got left. Well, that and the possibility of lots of T2 salvage, but fat chance of that happening.
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Dufas
Amarr Dark-Rising Fallen Souls
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Posted - 2007.06.18 07:54:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Dufas on 18/06/2007 07:59:18 I was all excited wooohooo \0/ lv 5 missions this is gonna be great....I have run several lv5's and i have to agree...they are extremely time consuming and the isk and lp rewards r a total joke...not to mention the risk ppl will have to deal with being in low sec and getting scanned out by pirates just looking to runin a guys day...the rewards are gonna have to be increased dramatically if you want ppl to spend the 3 hrs it will take to complete them..and yes i agree its 1 step forward 2 steps back...the pve ppl just dont understand or get it...making a lv4 mission just take longer with less isk is not a benefit to anyone and get booooooooooooooooooring fast
Grade C- please try again ________
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Rafein
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Posted - 2007.06.18 10:13:00 -
[24]
well, don;t missions auto-adjust based on the time it takes for them to be completed? I remember every time we get a new mission, the rewards absolutly suck for maybe 2 weeks, till the game can judge how difficult a mission is, and give rewards accordingly.
As for OP, don't complain. You can do level 1-4 missions solo. They add one level, mainly for team play, and all of the are affecting the way you play? You don;t have to do the level 5's. Heh, if you want, you can try them solo, all you need is the standing to accept them.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.06.18 10:55:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Rafein well, don;t missions auto-adjust based on the time it takes for them to be completed? I remember every time we get a new mission, the rewards absolutly suck for maybe 2 weeks, till the game can judge how difficult a mission is, and give rewards accordingly.
One of the key points: the misison auto adjust after it has ben run some hundred of times.
Very nice, but how much time will be needed before the level 5 missions are run some hundred of time so they adjust the reward? and who will run them for some million reward with the risk of some billion loss?
If CCP want them run they need to start high and leave the auto-adjust system to lower rewards it the missions results too easy, not start low and maybe if you keep to them long enough you get a reward igh enough.
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Sangheili
Gallente Nemesis Industrial Ltd.
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Posted - 2007.06.23 05:07:00 -
[26]
oh another to add.. I haven't been able to use my carrier on any missions yet. which missions allow you the use, and which ones do not? argh. Sangheili
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Thresh Avery
Best Path Inc. Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2007.06.23 14:02:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Malena
Originally by: Christopher Dalran I think Logistics pilots might be in high demand, they realy got a significant boost.
Yes they did, and it is about stinkin' time too. So, I have maxxed out skills on anything even remotely related to fitting and using a basilisk and oneiros, anyone want to hire me? :)
Heh, i'd like to hire you Malena - how about turning that Perpetual Dawn into an Ethereal Dawn?
Yeah, i'm glad the logistics got a big boost because i've been skilling for them for a while now and was excited about getting one, but i realised they weren't as effective as i first thought and in these size groups the firepower would be a much bigger bonus. However, now things are different; helped a great deal by the drone bonuses.
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