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Revolution Rising
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
39
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Posted - 2012.01.04 08:14:00 -
[1] - Quote
CSM Vote time comes around, when you login, vote screen comes up, you MUST vote. May or may not include a donkey vote - haven't thought about that much yet. I'm interested to hear what people think.
This way everyone gets a voice.
70% of the players are empire dwellers, but the CSM is obviously run by 0.0 alliance heads. Why has ccp not implemented this already I wonder ?
It would stop a lot of the rage that is currently taking over many topics of debate because the majority of people aren't really being catered for by the CSM.
Edit: Please keep in mind only 15% of people voted in the past election ! (awful). |
Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
207
|
Posted - 2012.01.04 09:15:00 -
[2] - Quote
Mandatory voting on something that 80% of the playerbase doesn't know anything about just leads to people clicking for whoever happens to be the first name they see on the voting screen.
So either you randomise the order of candidates, which means the mandatory uninformed votes are distributed equally and so have no bearing on the result, or you don't, which means the first name on the list gets to be chair regardless of affiliation, ability, or campaign. |
Shobon Welp
Band of Brothers
3
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Posted - 2012.01.04 09:19:00 -
[3] - Quote
Revolution Rising wrote:It would stop a lot of the rage that is currently taking over many topics of debate because a handful of little babies are upset at CSM6 actually getting **** done and have a lot of alts to post feeble anti-CSM trolls on .
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Revolution Rising
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
39
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Posted - 2012.01.04 09:28:00 -
[4] - Quote
Scatim Helicon wrote:Mandatory voting on something that 80% of the playerbase doesn't know anything about just leads to people clicking for whoever happens to be the first name they see on the voting screen.
So either you randomise the order of candidates, which means the mandatory uninformed votes are distributed equally and so have no bearing on the result, or you don't, which means the first name on the list gets to be chair regardless of affiliation, ability, or campaign.
So you're saying a random selection would be worse than having what will probably be an all 0.0 CSM from now on ?
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Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
207
|
Posted - 2012.01.04 09:42:00 -
[5] - Quote
Nothing is stopping empire candidates from organising a CSM campaign of their own except their lack of competence and effort.
And as highseccers are so fond of telling us, 80% of players live in highsec and have no interest in 0.0 matters at all, so taking the Chair position on some sort of Empire First platform should be like candy from a baby, right? |
Trebor Daehdoow
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
1276
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Posted - 2012.01.04 12:47:00 -
[6] - Quote
I am all for this, but only if *I* get to write the software. CSM - because I have not yet plumbed the depths of my inherent masochism! CSM 6 Activities Summary | My CSM blog |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1497
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Posted - 2012.01.04 13:08:00 -
[7] - Quote
"I can't get an organized campaign because I'm a stupid, worthless pubbie so they should change everything in our favor even though 0.0 will still control the CSM!"
There is no reason to force every last player to vote, especially when the bulk are mission grinders and miners who literally do not care about the direction of the game. |
Arkon Olacar
Imperial Guardians
0
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Posted - 2012.01.04 13:30:00 -
[8] - Quote
Forcing players to vote is a horrendous mistake, it makes a farce of the entire thing as 70% of players will just choose randomly.
Having the ballot paper pop up upon login is a great idea IMO, as long as there is a giant 'X' in the corner so that people who dont want to vote dont have to. Upon clicking the 'cancel'/'dont vote' button, the ballot paper should not pop up upon login again for that election, but should be avaliable for people who later change their mind - perhaps as a link on the character selection screen, or something similar.
You could easily provide space for, or a link to, a short 'mini-manifesto' which allows players who have not been following the election campaign have some idea what each candidate stands for. This should help curb random selection voting.
Just my thoughts. |
Vertisce Soritenshi
Varion Galactic Tragedy.
893
|
Posted - 2012.01.04 14:30:00 -
[9] - Quote
I am all for this as well...however, as stated in the second post of this thread it will lead to a bunch of people with no clue whats actually going on voting for random people. Since this is how it works in real life anyway...I don't see too much of a problem here.
Andski wrote:"I can't get an organized campaign because I'm a stupid, worthless pubbie so they should change everything in our favor even though 0.0 will still control the CSM!"
There is no reason to force every last player to vote, especially when the bulk are mission grinders and miners who literally do not care about the direction of the game. In other words...
Don't change anything because then Goonswarm can't control the CSM and keep The Mittani in his seat. EvE is not about PvP.-á EvE is about the SANDBOX! - CCP!-á Open the door!!! |
Drake Draconis
Nexus Advanced Technologies Fidelas Constans
205
|
Posted - 2012.01.04 15:12:00 -
[10] - Quote
Revolution Rising wrote:CSM Vote time comes around, when you login, vote screen comes up, you MUST vote. May or may not include a donkey vote - haven't thought about that much yet. I'm interested to hear what people think.
This way everyone gets a voice.
70% of the players are empire dwellers, but the CSM is obviously run by 0.0 alliance heads. Why has ccp not implemented this already I wonder ?
It would stop a lot of the rage that is currently taking over many topics of debate because the majority of people aren't really being catered for by the CSM.
Edit: Please keep in mind only 15% of people voted in the past election ! (awful).
Yes because forcing players to vote will fix everything.
Are you people really that dense? |
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Vertisce Soritenshi
Varion Galactic Tragedy.
893
|
Posted - 2012.01.04 19:40:00 -
[11] - Quote
Drake Draconis wrote:Revolution Rising wrote:CSM Vote time comes around, when you login, vote screen comes up, you MUST vote. May or may not include a donkey vote - haven't thought about that much yet. I'm interested to hear what people think.
This way everyone gets a voice.
70% of the players are empire dwellers, but the CSM is obviously run by 0.0 alliance heads. Why has ccp not implemented this already I wonder ?
It would stop a lot of the rage that is currently taking over many topics of debate because the majority of people aren't really being catered for by the CSM.
Edit: Please keep in mind only 15% of people voted in the past election ! (awful). Yes because forcing players to vote will fix everything. Are you people really that dense?
I am not really sure it matters much either way. Even the people today that vote either don't know what the hell they are voting for or get outvoted by the powerblock. The only thing this proposal would do is grant a slim possibility that the powerblock lose. I guess whether that is a good or bad thing depends on the powerblock that is winning. EvE is not about PvP.-á EvE is about the SANDBOX! - CCP!-á Open the door!!! |
Drake Draconis
Nexus Advanced Technologies Fidelas Constans
209
|
Posted - 2012.01.04 20:22:00 -
[12] - Quote
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:Drake Draconis wrote:Revolution Rising wrote:CSM Vote time comes around, when you login, vote screen comes up, you MUST vote. May or may not include a donkey vote - haven't thought about that much yet. I'm interested to hear what people think.
This way everyone gets a voice.
70% of the players are empire dwellers, but the CSM is obviously run by 0.0 alliance heads. Why has ccp not implemented this already I wonder ?
It would stop a lot of the rage that is currently taking over many topics of debate because the majority of people aren't really being catered for by the CSM.
Edit: Please keep in mind only 15% of people voted in the past election ! (awful). Yes because forcing players to vote will fix everything. Are you people really that dense? I am not really sure it matters much either way. Even the people today that vote either don't know what the hell they are voting for or get outvoted by the powerblock. The only thing this proposal would do is grant a slim possibility that the powerblock lose. I guess whether that is a good or bad thing depends on the powerblock that is winning.
Wrong.
Forcing every player to vote means every account that signs in must vote...thats a guarenteed landslide victory for powerblocs.
This proposal was ******** the moment it was posted.... and the motivation behind it is nothing short of a pitiful crybaby seeking retirbution for something that the op has no idea what hes talking about.
This changes absolutely...nothing.
PS: The population of the high sec crowd peolpe tend to presume is just a bunch of carebears...what they dont think about is the number of alts of major alliances and everything else...stats are just numbers on paperwork...nothing guarenteed there. |
Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
210
|
Posted - 2012.01.05 00:37:00 -
[13] - Quote
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:In other words... Don't change anything because then Goonswarm can't control the CSM and keep The Mittani in his seat.
In other words...
abloobloobloo I am mad because somebody I dont like got voted into CSM a bloo bloo bloo
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Cyprus Black
Tears of Redemption NEM3SIS.
118
|
Posted - 2012.01.05 01:00:00 -
[14] - Quote
Most players ingame don't know what the CSM is nor visit the forums.
To force these players to vote on something they don't know anything about could be disastrous. We could get another Trebor, Ankh or Mazz as a result of an uninformed yet forced voting system. Like my post? Made you laugh or think? Maybe even offended or nausiated you? Then give a Like. They're free and oh so easy to give. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
2552
|
Posted - 2012.01.05 07:00:00 -
[15] - Quote
Revolution Rising wrote:Scatim Helicon wrote:Mandatory voting on something that 80% of the playerbase doesn't know anything about just leads to people clicking for whoever happens to be the first name they see on the voting screen.
So either you randomise the order of candidates, which means the mandatory uninformed votes are distributed equally and so have no bearing on the result, or you don't, which means the first name on the list gets to be chair regardless of affiliation, ability, or campaign. So you're saying a random selection would be worse than having what will probably be an all 0.0 CSM from now on ?
Yes, it would indisputably be worse.
Why should people be forced to vote if they're not interested in the CSM? And if they're not interested in the CSM, why are you getting outraged on their behalf?
Of course I know full well why you're 'outraged' on their behalf. Actually you don't give a crap about whether they're represented, as evidenced by your open indifference to whether candidates that people actually want get elected. It's because the people who do care about the CSM have had the insolence to vote for people you have decided you don't like. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
2552
|
Posted - 2012.01.05 07:02:00 -
[16] - Quote
Trebor Daehdoow wrote:I am all for this, but only if *I* get to write the software.
"It's not who gets the votes that counts; it's who counts the votes"
- Stalin
Side note: Stalin introduced mandatory voting too! Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
2552
|
Posted - 2012.01.05 07:03:00 -
[17] - Quote
Revolution Rising wrote:CSM Vote time comes around, when you login, vote screen comes up, you MUST vote. May or may not include a donkey vote - haven't thought about that much yet. I'm interested to hear what people think.
This way everyone gets a voice.
70% of the players are empire dwellers, but the CSM is obviously run by 0.0 alliance heads. Why has ccp not implemented this already I wonder ?
It would stop a lot of the rage that is currently taking over many topics of debate because the majority of people aren't really being catered for by the CSM.
Edit: Please keep in mind only 15% of people voted in the past election ! (awful).
Why don't you just cut to the chase and propose that CCP reserve 4 or 5 CSM seats for people that you nominate? Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
236
|
Posted - 2012.01.05 08:01:00 -
[18] - Quote
Revolution Rising wrote:70% of the players are empire dwellers, but the CSM is obviously run by 0.0 alliance heads. Why has ccp not implemented this already I wonder ?.. Because "modern" politics/democracy has never been about inclusion but the legitimisation of condensing power onto small'ish entities (corporate, parties, individuals etc.)
Take a hard look at the voting system in whichever country you hail from and ask yourself if anyone/everyone has the same chance of 'getting in' and if everyone has the same ease of voting. The only contemporary system that has any right to even bear the title "Democracy" is the Swiss (in my opinion) ..
I would move there in a heartbeat if it wasn't for the odd cuisine they have .. hahahahaha. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1498
|
Posted - 2012.01.05 13:28:00 -
[19] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Trebor Daehdoow wrote:I am all for this, but only if *I* get to write the software. "It's not who gets the votes that counts; it's who counts the votes" - Stalin Side note: Stalin introduced mandatory voting too!
Then again, The Mittani does enjoy using a Stalinist gimmick. |
Goose99
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
634
|
Posted - 2012.01.05 17:08:00 -
[20] - Quote
Scatim Helicon wrote:Mandatory voting on something that 80% of the playerbase doesn't know anything about just leads to people clicking for whoever happens to be the first name they see on the voting screen.
So either you randomise the order of candidates, which means the mandatory uninformed votes are distributed equally and so have no bearing on the result, or you don't, which means the first name on the list gets to be chair regardless of affiliation, ability, or campaign.
This would lead to better selection of CSMs than the joke we have now. |
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Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1499
|
Posted - 2012.01.05 17:30:00 -
[21] - Quote
so because you don't like the current CSM, the next one should be voted for by the uninformed drooling masses, through mandatory voting, in hopes that it will accomplish absolutely nothing? what an idea |
Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
210
|
Posted - 2012.01.05 21:16:00 -
[22] - Quote
Goose99 wrote:Scatim Helicon wrote:Mandatory voting on something that 80% of the playerbase doesn't know anything about just leads to people clicking for whoever happens to be the first name they see on the voting screen.
So either you randomise the order of candidates, which means the mandatory uninformed votes are distributed equally and so have no bearing on the result, or you don't, which means the first name on the list gets to be chair regardless of affiliation, ability, or campaign. This would lead to better selection of CSMs than the joke we have now.
CSM 6 has been the most effective CSM to date in bringing solid, tangible improvements to every single section of the Eve playerbase. Fact.
Sorry that you're so rage-blinded about your hulks getting ganked or something. ~If you want a picture of the future of WiS, imagine a spaceship, stamping on an avatar's face. Forever. |
Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
239
|
Posted - 2012.01.06 08:31:00 -
[23] - Quote
Scatim Helicon wrote:CSM 6 has been the most effective CSM to date in bringing solid, tangible improvements to every single section of the Eve playerbase. Fact. Sorry that you're so rage-blinded about your hulks getting ganked or something. Let me guess, the proof of that is unfortunately heavily NDA'd so we will just have to take your word for it?
CSM6 got that "badge" because CCP failed on such an epic scale. If CCP had not, the course correction would never have taken place and CSM6 would have gone down in history as the SpaceBarbie CSM.
It does however seem like CSM6 may help make more frequent direct contact to CCP the norm by their abuse of Skype or whatever 'open comms' they are using, which is a very good thing. Especially since CCP employee "real game time" appears to have diminished over the years (judging by the disconnect that happened between CCP reality and actual reality).
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Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
212
|
Posted - 2012.01.06 11:01:00 -
[24] - Quote
Hirana Yoshida wrote:Scatim Helicon wrote:CSM 6 has been the most effective CSM to date in bringing solid, tangible improvements to every single section of the Eve playerbase. Fact. Sorry that you're so rage-blinded about your hulks getting ganked or something. Let me guess, the proof of that is unfortunately heavily NDA'd so we will just have to take your word for it?
The proof is plain for everyone to see, since 6 was the first CSM to actually get anything meaningful done. CSM 1-5's main achievements were in generating a massive backlog of outstanding issues (without ever getting CCP to look at implementing any of them), generating layers of petty drama and CSM bureaucracy to smother any attempts at useful work in, throwing spoons at each other, resigning in protest at some pet issue or other (which again, made no impact whatsoever with CCP), and breaking NDAs for personal gain.
~If you want a picture of the future of WiS, imagine a spaceship, stamping on an avatar's face. Forever. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1499
|
Posted - 2012.01.06 11:01:00 -
[25] - Quote
Hirana Yoshida wrote:Scatim Helicon wrote:CSM 6 has been the most effective CSM to date in bringing solid, tangible improvements to every single section of the Eve playerbase. Fact. Sorry that you're so rage-blinded about your hulks getting ganked or something. Let me guess, the proof of that is unfortunately heavily NDA'd so we will just have to take your word for it? CSM6 got that "badge" because CCP failed on such an epic scale. If CCP had not, the course correction would never have taken place and CSM6 would have gone down in history as the SpaceBarbie CSM. It does however seem like CSM6 may help make more frequent direct contact to CCP the norm by their abuse of Skype or whatever 'open comms' they are using, which is a very good thing. Especially since CCP employee "real game time" appears to have diminished over the years (judging by the disconnect that happened between CCP reality and actual reality).
I don't know, look at Crucible and see for yourself. Why are you so dumb? |
Tallian Saotome
Casa Del Wombat
321
|
Posted - 2012.01.06 11:25:00 -
[26] - Quote
Scatim Helicon wrote:Hirana Yoshida wrote:Scatim Helicon wrote:CSM 6 has been the most effective CSM to date in bringing solid, tangible improvements to every single section of the Eve playerbase. Fact. Sorry that you're so rage-blinded about your hulks getting ganked or something. Let me guess, the proof of that is unfortunately heavily NDA'd so we will just have to take your word for it? The proof is plain for everyone to see, since 6 was the first CSM to actually get anything meaningful done. CSM 1-5's main achievements were in generating a massive backlog of outstanding issues (without ever getting CCP to look at implementing any of them), generating layers of petty drama and CSM bureaucracy to smother any attempts at useful work in, throwing spoons at each other, resigning in protest at some pet issue or other (which again, made no impact whatsoever with CCP), and breaking NDAs for personal gain.
Everyone seems to forget that CSM5 DID achieve 2 major things.
Nerfing anoms and JBs to a mere fraction of what they used to be, thereby severely diminishing any reason to bother with SOV. In other words, creating an incentive for entities like PL who don't hold sov, yet wield the might in the 0.0 landscape that should be mainly in the hands of sov holders. o/`-á Lord, I want to be a gynecologist.. KY, rubber gloves, and a flashlight.-á o/` |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1499
|
Posted - 2012.01.06 11:31:00 -
[27] - Quote
Tallian Saotome wrote:Scatim Helicon wrote:Hirana Yoshida wrote:Scatim Helicon wrote:CSM 6 has been the most effective CSM to date in bringing solid, tangible improvements to every single section of the Eve playerbase. Fact. Sorry that you're so rage-blinded about your hulks getting ganked or something. Let me guess, the proof of that is unfortunately heavily NDA'd so we will just have to take your word for it? The proof is plain for everyone to see, since 6 was the first CSM to actually get anything meaningful done. CSM 1-5's main achievements were in generating a massive backlog of outstanding issues (without ever getting CCP to look at implementing any of them), generating layers of petty drama and CSM bureaucracy to smother any attempts at useful work in, throwing spoons at each other, resigning in protest at some pet issue or other (which again, made no impact whatsoever with CCP), and breaking NDAs for personal gain. Everyone seems to forget that CSM5 DID achieve 2 major things. Nerfing anoms and JBs to a mere fraction of what they used to be, thereby severely diminishing any reason to bother with SOV. In other words, creating an incentive for entities like PL who don't hold sov, yet wield the might in the 0.0 landscape that should be mainly in the hands of sov holders.
You're serious, aren't you? The anom nerf has turned 0.0 into a desert. |
Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
240
|
Posted - 2012.01.06 12:03:00 -
[28] - Quote
Scatim Helicon wrote:The proof is plain for everyone to see, since 6 was the first CSM to actually get anything meaningful done. CSM 1-5's main achievements were in generating a massive backlog of outstanding issues (without ever getting CCP to look at implementing any of them), generating layers of petty drama and CSM bureaucracy to smother any attempts at useful work in, throwing spoons at each other, resigning in protest at some pet issue or other (which again, made no impact whatsoever with CCP), and breaking NDAs for personal gain. Let me try to put in another way, CSM6's biggest achievement so far has been to be the CSM in place at the time of CCP Incarna/NeX failscade. They had close to nothing to do with the course correction (unsubs/media spam was driver) and all the things they are "getting done" are mainly taken from the very backlogs that the previous CSM's were instrumental in getting made. Claiming that CSM6 are all that you claim is like when Bush tried taking credit for the bullish economy left by Clinton or Democrats dumping all blame for later meltdown on Bush.
Andski wrote:I don't know, look at Crucible and see for yourself. Why are you so dumb? See above.
In short: Being in the right place at the right time does not make one better at anything, just means one is lucky. |
Tallian Saotome
Casa Del Wombat
321
|
Posted - 2012.01.06 12:17:00 -
[29] - Quote
Andski wrote: You're serious, aren't you? The anom nerf has turned 0.0 into a desert.
Thats the point. The only thing any previous CSM has achieved of any note was to virtually destroy a large segment of the game. Specifically the segment that they use to sell them game, for the most part. o/`-á Lord, I want to be a gynecologist.. KY, rubber gloves, and a flashlight.-á o/` |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1499
|
Posted - 2012.01.06 12:18:00 -
[30] - Quote
Hirana Yoshida wrote:In short: Being in the right place at the right time does not make one better at anything, just means one is lucky.
ahahaha you are so dumb it's almost painful |
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