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Author |
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
240
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Posted - 2012.01.06 13:23:00 -
[31] - Quote
Andski wrote:ahahaha you are so dumb it's almost painful Let's assume for arguments sake that "your" CSM were not merely lucky as I claim.
That would mean that they used social engineering to intentionally cause the failscade, aka. incite the riot, and are directly responsible for the sacking of 100+ people and Goddess knows what other fallout has yet to be identified.
Are "my precious!' sanctums and the virtual currency grind important enough to wreck 100+ lives, even if temporarily?
So which is it: Lucky as hell or Evil, possibly guilty of breaking several laws? |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1499
|
Posted - 2012.01.06 13:36:00 -
[32] - Quote
Hirana Yoshida wrote:Andski wrote:ahahaha you are so dumb it's almost painful Let's assume for arguments sake that "your" CSM were not merely lucky as I claim. That would mean that they used social engineering to intentionally cause the failscade, aka. incite the riot, and are directly responsible for the sacking of 100+ people and Goddess knows what other fallout has yet to be identified. Are "my precious!' sanctums and the virtual currency grind important enough to wreck 100+ lives, even if temporarily? So which is it: Lucky as hell or Evil, possibly guilty of breaking several laws?
nonsense devolves into paranoid ramblings and a false dilemma
you pubbies are amazing |
Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
212
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Posted - 2012.01.06 13:42:00 -
[33] - Quote
Hirana Yoshida wrote:Let's assume for arguments sake that "your" CSM were not merely lucky as I claim. Its not "your" CSM, its "the" CSM.
(fun fact, there's been Goonswarm/Goonswarm Federation members on every single CSM to date)
Quote:That would mean that they used social engineering to intentionally cause the failscade, aka. incite the riot, and are directly responsible for the sacking of 100+ people and Goddess knows what other fallout has yet to be identified.
Are "my precious!' sanctums and the virtual currency grind important enough to wreck 100+ lives, even if temporarily?
So which is it: Lucky as hell or Evil, possibly guilty of breaking several laws?
Without the 'summer of rage' we saw last year shaking some sense into CCP there's a good chance they would have had to let go 100% of their staff rather than 20%.
But please go on and tell us more about how CSM6 are literally real life criminals. ~If you want a picture of the future of WiS, imagine a spaceship, stamping on an avatar's face. Forever. |
Tiger's Spirit
Troll Hunters INC.
31
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Posted - 2012.01.06 13:53:00 -
[34] - Quote
Revolution Rising wrote: 70% of the players are empire dwellers, but the CSM is obviously run by 0.0 alliance heads. ...
Solution :
33.333% of CSM members from 0.0 sec 33.333% of CSM members from low sec 33.333% of CSM members from high sec |
Tallian Saotome
Casa Del Wombat
321
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Posted - 2012.01.06 14:41:00 -
[35] - Quote
Tiger's Spirit wrote:Revolution Rising wrote: 70% of the players are empire dwellers, but the CSM is obviously run by 0.0 alliance heads. ...
Solution : 33.333% of CSM members from 0.0 sec 33.333% of CSM members from low sec 33.333% of CSM members from high sec
Response: Mittens is on for 0.0, vile rats high sec alt is on for highsec, Andski's pirate corp alt is in for lowsec.
How do you define the groups, since nullsec players actually live in all 3 zones, plus the wormholes you chose to ignore. Lowsec players have, at the very least, highsec alts, and alot of us move around based on what we are doing at the moment.
Your proposal is not actually enforceable. o/`-á Lord, I want to be a gynecologist.. KY, rubber gloves, and a flashlight.-á o/` |
Lord Zim
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
493
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Posted - 2012.01.06 15:14:00 -
[36] - Quote
Hirana Yoshida wrote:They had close to nothing to do with the course correction (unsubs/media spam was driver) So Hilmar's told you exactly what it was that caused it, has he?
Hirana Yoshida wrote:Claiming that CSM6 are all that you claim is like when Bush tried taking credit for the bullish economy left by Clinton or Democrats dumping all blame for later meltdown on Bush. So it was Clinton's fault Bush left the country with a massive deficit, war everywhere etc etc etc, 8 years later? |
Ariete
Aliastra Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2012.01.06 16:20:00 -
[37] - Quote
Ok so i haven't played this game that long, but i have good and bad experience of the politics of MMORPG's.
Personally i think the CSM's shouldn't be elected, having elected CSM's seems to favour one type of player or play style. Having CSM's nominated instead allows for a much broad range of CSM's from the player base. It would allow CCP to choose players who represent the player base better i.e. RP'ers, Mission Runners, Industrialist and PVP'ers |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
2560
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Posted - 2012.01.06 16:51:00 -
[38] - Quote
Tiger's Spirit wrote:Revolution Rising wrote: 70% of the players are empire dwellers, but the CSM is obviously run by 0.0 alliance heads. ...
Solution : 33.333% of CSM members from 0.0 sec mains 33.333% of CSM members from low sec alts 33.333% of CSM members from high sec alts
You see the problem here?
It's that you are kind of hard of thinking.
Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Goose99
642
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Posted - 2012.01.06 17:51:00 -
[39] - Quote
Scatim Helicon wrote:Hirana Yoshida wrote:Scatim Helicon wrote:CSM 6 has been the most effective CSM to date in bringing solid, tangible improvements to every single section of the Eve playerbase. Fact. Sorry that you're so rage-blinded about your hulks getting ganked or something. Let me guess, the proof of that is unfortunately heavily NDA'd so we will just have to take your word for it? The proof is plain for everyone to see, since 6 was the first CSM to actually get anything meaningful done. CSM 1-5's main achievements were in generating a massive backlog of outstanding issues (without ever getting CCP to look at implementing any of them), generating layers of petty drama and CSM bureaucracy to smother any attempts at useful work in, throwing spoons at each other, resigning in protest at some pet issue or other (which again, made no impact whatsoever with CCP), and breaking NDAs for personal gain.
I too claim credit for AUR protest fallout. |
Lord Zim
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
494
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Posted - 2012.01.06 18:18:00 -
[40] - Quote
I, too, claim the AUR protests were what caused CCP to change their minds. |
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Tiger's Spirit
Troll Hunters INC.
33
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Posted - 2012.01.06 19:53:00 -
[41] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Tiger's Spirit wrote:Revolution Rising wrote: 70% of the players are empire dwellers, but the CSM is obviously run by 0.0 alliance heads. ...
Solution : 33.333% of CSM members from 0.0 sec mains 33.333% of CSM members from low sec alts 33.333% of CSM members from high sec alts You see the problem here? It's that you are kind of hard of thinking.
CCP can check client IPs for main and alts. |
Drake Draconis
Nexus Advanced Technologies Fidelas Constans
211
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Posted - 2012.01.06 19:57:00 -
[42] - Quote
Tiger's Spirit wrote:Malcanis wrote:Tiger's Spirit wrote:Revolution Rising wrote: 70% of the players are empire dwellers, but the CSM is obviously run by 0.0 alliance heads. ...
Solution : 33.333% of CSM members from 0.0 sec mains 33.333% of CSM members from low sec alts 33.333% of CSM members from high sec alts You see the problem here? It's that you are kind of hard of thinking. CCP can check client IPs for main and alts.
Quit while your ahead kiddo. You've been pwn3d....time to surrender. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
2561
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Posted - 2012.01.06 20:05:00 -
[43] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:I, too, claim the AUR protests were what caused CCP to change their minds.
I think it's reasonable to say that they were a contributory factor. The playerbase unsubs, the protests, the CSM, and the threadnaughts all played a part IMO.
Personally I think the CSM were highly useful in that they provided a calm, detailed 2-way discussion of what the real issues were - extremely useful at a time when CCP had lost touch with their customers - and had considerable input in pointing the new direction the right way. Saying that the CSM were "useless" is flying in the face of the facts, including CCP's own statements.
That said, CSM5 weren't by any means useless either. Much of the groundwork for the successes of CSM6 were laid by CSM5. CSM6 is the most successful CSM yet, but CSm5 were the most successful CSM to date as well. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1502
|
Posted - 2012.01.06 20:07:00 -
[44] - Quote
please don't bring any of these "facts" to the mix, there is no place for them, only delusional, paranoid ramblings |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
2561
|
Posted - 2012.01.06 20:16:00 -
[45] - Quote
I realise my mistake and I apologise unreservedly. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Lord Zim
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
496
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Posted - 2012.01.06 20:21:00 -
[46] - Quote
Of course the AUR protests etc were part of the reason, but maggots like whomeverthefuck here seems to want to be about as good at talking about facts as EN24 is. |
Lord Zim
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
496
|
Posted - 2012.01.06 20:22:00 -
[47] - Quote
Which means if it involves goons or the clusterfuck, either ignore it wholeheartedly, or just cover whatever they didn't do. |
Naj Panora
Homless Nomads
1
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Posted - 2012.01.06 20:36:00 -
[48] - Quote
I'm giving this a like with the exception don't put it on the log in screen and make it required to log in put it in a separate box on the char selection screen so it is still optional but easily accessible to the player base. |
Mars Theran
EVE Rogues EVE Rogues Alliance
34
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Posted - 2012.01.07 00:20:00 -
[49] - Quote
My first thought: Forced voting? wtf
Requiring people to vote before they can log into EVE is damaging. What do you hope to get out of this? A scramble of EVE patrons to the forums in some mad dash attempt to figure out wtf is going on, and try to maybe figure out what they should do.
Fact is, yes, 80% of the population lives in Empire. Many of them are also Alts of various 0.0 Allaince members. Probably more than 20%.
Random math:
If the current population of the game is 350K, the 0.0 population is 10% of that number, and each 0.0 population meber has a mission running Empire Alt, while 30% of the 0.0 population has 2 Empire Production toons, and another half of the 0.0 population maintains Empire Trade alt's in Jita; what is the percentage of 0.0 Alliance members in the population and current number of subscribers based on a population of 350K?
Also, I brought up in-game voting propaganda last year before CSM, and it was promptly tromped on as immersion breaking. This, despite CSM being a "Council of Stellar Management," which is rather in line with current game structure and mechanics. I thought it was relatively feasible and easy to meld into game dynamics myself, but apparently the majority believe otherwise.
Not a bad thing, but I'd still like to see more people vote, and take part in forum discussions. The fact that I recognize nearly every poster today from last year, and previous years, is a profound statement of the state of the forums and relative stagnation of discussion here.
Some things have changed, as have some people; which is nice to see. |
Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
221
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Posted - 2012.01.07 10:53:00 -
[50] - Quote
Ariete wrote:Ok so i haven't played this game that long, but i have good and bad experience of the politics of MMORPG's.
Personally i think the CSM's shouldn't be elected, having elected CSM's seems to favour one type of player or play style. Having CSM's nominated instead allows for a much broad range of CSM's from the player base. It would allow CCP to choose players who represent the player base better i.e. RP'ers, Mission Runners, Industrialist and PVP'ers You don't see any problem with CCP staff hand-picking the people they want to use for consultation and advice?
Silly question, no, of course you don't see the problem. ~If you want a picture of the future of WiS, imagine a spaceship, stamping on an avatar's face. Forever. |
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Lord Zim
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
500
|
Posted - 2012.01.07 10:59:00 -
[51] - Quote
Technically, they can do that now, by rigging the voting system. We have to trust tat they don't. |
Xorv
Questionable Acquisitions
38
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Posted - 2012.01.07 11:17:00 -
[52] - Quote
Forced Voting is a horrible idea. Why would you want Ignorant or just plain don't give a **** players to vote? Informed players will know about the vote and be able to have a voice in who's in the next CSM if they choose. |
Disdaine
182
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Posted - 2012.01.07 11:40:00 -
[53] - Quote
+1 for mandatory voting. |
Lord Zim
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
500
|
Posted - 2012.01.07 12:04:00 -
[54] - Quote
Disdaine wrote:+1 for mandatory voting. Move to australia, then. |
Di Mulle
32
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Posted - 2012.01.07 16:32:00 -
[55] - Quote
Tiger's Spirit wrote: Solution :
33.333% of CSM members from 0.0 sec 33.333% of CSM members from low sec 33.333% of CSM members from high sec
Not even speaking about alts, what exactly defines "from high sec" etc. ?
CCP is unable to implement simpliest things. Like settting to hide signatures. So they sweep it under a rug . Children do that in their pre-shool years, CCP does it being adults. Probably because it is fearless enough. |
Lord Zim
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
500
|
Posted - 2012.01.07 17:34:00 -
[56] - Quote
3 of my 5 chars are in hisec. I guess that makes me a 60% hisec person. |
Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
224
|
Posted - 2012.01.08 09:23:00 -
[57] - Quote
Tiger's Spirit wrote: Solution :
33.333% of CSM members from 0.0 sec 33.333% of CSM members from low sec 33.333% of CSM members from high sec
Excellent plan.
By forcing the CSM to include less capable highsec players through positive discrimination, rather than allowing the election to only choose the best candidates, it means that they'll be more susceptible to manipulation by the more knowledgeable and politically adept 0.0 and lowsec members.
We'll have Jita made into a 0.4 and halve the EHP of mining barges within a matter of months! ~If you want a picture of the future of WiS, imagine a spaceship, stamping on an avatar's face. Forever. |
Disdaine
182
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Posted - 2012.01.08 09:31:00 -
[58] - Quote
Scatim Helicon wrote:We'll have Jita made into a 0.4 and halve the EHP of mining barges within a matter of months!
Thanks for clearing up the confusion over the goons agenda.
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Killstealing
Broski Enterprises Elite Space Guild
332
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Posted - 2012.01.09 00:47:00 -
[59] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:3 of my 5 chars are in hisec. I guess that makes me a 60% hisec person. This also means your vote counts for 3/5th only. Just like... you know. |
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