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Nymos
Beyond Divinity Inc Blind Beavers
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Posted - 2007.06.14 19:36:00 -
[1]
hello,
i've been wondering why the blob mentality even increased even though ccp tried to nerf blobs. my conclusion is that exactly that leads to more and more blobbing. how so? surely, numbers have always won, but i think it is just more necessary now than before to bring more people. why?
a) hp boost
it's old news... battleships are king of the hill, battlecruisers are cheap throwaway ships with acceptable bang for the buck and crusiers/frigs are obsolete. inties only serve for tackling, but else their dps isn't enough to do anything else.
hacs are a waste of isk too. the only viable hac is the vagabond and the nanoishtar (and the latter one surely wasn't intended to be used like that). recons are still very good, the only ship type i enjoy flying these days.
basically, the hp boost shifted setups from gank to tank. is that good or bad? imo bad, but more on that later.
b) rigs
yes, i hate rigs. they are a waste of isk on already expensive setups. they are unbalanced and do nothing but enhance already powerful aspects of setups instead of "enable pilots to build more flexible setups".
noone builds flexible setups. anyone who plans a bit ahead can guess what to expect, fits a one trick pony and with that in mind the FC can put the gang into position where the negative sides of that setup don't matter that much.
let's look at tanking rigs. 2x rep amount + 1x cycle time rigs for active setups or 3x hp amount for passive ones (or 3x regen for caldari). that way you can fit supertanked dual rep + 3-4 hardeners/dmg control setups or 2-4x 1600 plates + resists + remote reps and drones.
even though a t1 frig or cruiser has 3 rig slots too, they're a waste of isk on anything but t2 or BSs. yes, that's so well thought out and implemented. woot for 3 rigs on throwaway rifters...
c) logistics
they are being used already and they are a very valuable asset for a gang - and they'll get a buff in rev2.
NOOOO. i'm not saying they shouldn't get that or even be nerfed. in fact, i like the idea of logistics and i like that they get buffed. that also applies to carriers to some extent and we'll see even more of those too.
d) how does that all fit together?
more hitpoints + uber tankage from rigs + remote reps = bring more people to actually break a tank.
if you don't run out of cap you can more or less tank someone for ages with dual reps + rigs which means you can't break a tank in a reasonable amount of time without significant numbers and firepower from BSs.
i like flying cruiser sized ships. they're reasonably fast and agile and still could do some damage. notice: "could". now they die if a BS sneezes at a cruiser.
how will rev2 fix blobbing (if that is even intended)? by adding more pos stuff? noone in their right mind wants pos warfare (not to confuse with outpost addons which are something different). it's boring and laggy and entails even more boring logistics.
people want fast paced action. mining veld in empire is more action as it is compared to a fleet op and i haven't even participated in the real huge and real laggy ones. you probably know it better than me: wait ages until the blob is blobbed up, scout around, move around (in ships so agile and fast they are only surpassed by dreads in siege mode)... and maybe some time the lag bomb goes off and the "action starts".
bring back the small, fast ship ops and stop adding stuff that noone wants and isn't even thought through from A to Z and back. i perfectly understand that devs can't always anticipate what players will eventually do with the tools given to them, but many issues are pointed out in the time it takes from the first blog to going live - and are ignored.
yes, i could still hop in a fast ship in a fleet battle, but lag is bad for fast ships that rely on speed and why would i put a gistii crow on the line to get eaten by the lag monster?
so, what do you think about the relation of tanking and blobbing?
nym --
Every time a carebear dies an angel gets their wings (murder one)
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Station Dweller
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Posted - 2007.06.14 19:58:00 -
[2]
Go back to P3 and camp the OBE gate. Blind Beavers love camping that gate. If the blob fits.
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Achuramale
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Posted - 2007.06.14 20:11:00 -
[3]
Another thing they love is running away when anything posing even the slightest threat to them appears. |
William Alex
Viscosity Dark Synergy
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Posted - 2007.06.14 20:50:00 -
[4]
Electronic warfare is the answer~ =)
Please give us a 1 depth skill queue CCP.
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Nymos
Beyond Divinity Inc Blind Beavers
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Posted - 2007.06.14 21:43:00 -
[5]
my goodness, shush go away silly alts. tell hydra to get out of c-f for once where you actually don't have an infinite supply of celestis and blackbirds and carrier support.
ecm is the answer? oh boy. --
Every time a carebear dies an angel gets their wings (murder one)
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Cpt Branko
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Posted - 2007.06.14 21:50:00 -
[6]
There are already T1 ships which cannot be killed solo by any reasonable setup ;P
With tanks getting better and better, and with two tankers (w/out NOS) being able to permatank each other, it's only natural that you'll group, and the other guy will then call in his group, and eventually groups evolve into blobs, as everyone wants to have the upper hand.
Small ships seem awfully, erm, well, underpowered. Especially with heavy NOS disabling cruisers/frigs and medium NOS disabling frigs, and that large ships get the advantage of rigs/T2 tanks.
The problem with most T2 gear and rigs which fit on all sizes is this: T1 frig: 0.1M (insurance cost) T2 small guns: 0.9M T2 SAR: 0.35M web&scram: 0.3M Total: 1.65M
Then you try fitting, say, a T2 tank: T2 EANM: 2M T2 DC: 2M Total: 5.65M
Using the T1 version would push the total price to about 2M.
Then you put in rigs, say, weapon rigs (least expensive): 1xfalloff: 12M 1xdamage: 15M 1xROF: 15M Total: 47.65M
Now, the T2 tank & rigs (the one-size fits all) will increase your tanking efficency about 10% and your damage potential by about 15%. It will boost the price for 2382%!
Now, would you make your ship 2382% more expensive to get 10% more tank and 15% more gank? You'd have to be bloody insane. On the other hand, increasing the cost of a BS fitting by 50-60mil is more or less cost-efficent.
The problem with small ships are really the one-size fits all rigs and one-size fits all modules. If you had, say, small weapon rigs, which take 1/10th to 1/15th of the materials to build and give a boost to small guns, you'd boost frigs and cruisers by a whole lot.
That would be a very nice solution to the frig & cruiser problem. Maybe better invention rates would improve cost effectiveness of T2 small ships, as they're rather overpriced considering their effect now.
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ghosttr
Amarr ARK-CORP FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.14 22:02:00 -
[7]
The problem with rigs is that they were implemented all wrong. They way they work now there way to expensive for use on anything smaller than a bc. And the bonuses given are not frig-friendly. I dont think the hp changes were all that much of a problem. But rigs on top of the hp upgrades have made the battleship 1-step closer to 'solopwnmobile'.
Make Mining Better |
Baccala
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Posted - 2007.06.14 22:51:00 -
[8]
I agree.. go blob p3, or maybe you just can't deal with dying anymore. You guys don't have the numbers... face it. You're weak... not to mention half your losses somehow never get posted.
On another note.... with all the great useless ships, why don't we just start noobs off in battleships. Who needs all those other ones?
btw, I see numerous t1 frigs and cruisers in those few losses you do post. Guess they do serve a purpose.
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umop 3pisdn
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2007.06.15 00:58:00 -
[9]
I agree.... I dont like the HP boost either.
At the time i thought it would be bad because it would make it easier for blobs to warp to member when one of them gets seperated and asswhooped... this it did.
I like t1 cruisers a lot, the HP boost has made them better anti frig platforms but thats about it.
AFs used to fight me regularly, even intys fought me solo on a daily basis to see if they could break my tank...
This does not happen anymore. And to attack me in an AF would be stupid, you cant win, all you can do is sit there and die.
Rigs: Also lame, good toys for the rich people but they encourage being a complete ***** more and more.
Oh well... its blob/capital blob wars online now... get used to it
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Plutoinum
German Cyberdome Corp Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.06.15 01:54:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Plutoinum on 15/06/2007 01:56:01 I enjoy a fight with remote repping at close range to med-range that can last an eternity a lot more than the old warp-in at sniper-range, lag, *boom* *bang*, first people are already dead, before they know where they are aka their computer has loaded the scenery and is back from 0.0 fps to 1 fps.
People blob anyway. The reason is imho that the gameplay around conquerable space, pos and such things is made for really big alliances and coalitions. The effort and isk that you have to put into it to be successful in conquerable space as an alliance on your own is extremely high. So a successfull 0.0 entity ends with a 2000 member mix of hardcore and part-time pvp'ers and carebears and since they have the numbers and prefer an easy win over having a good fight at the risk of losing, they bring these numbers.
Ok, maybe a bit simplified, but that's what just came into my mind.
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Nymos
Beyond Divinity Inc Blind Beavers
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Posted - 2007.06.15 16:41:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Nymos on 15/06/2007 16:42:30
Originally by: Baccala I agree.. go blob p3, or maybe you just can't deal with dying anymore. You guys don't have the numbers... face it. You're weak... not to mention half your losses somehow never get posted.
On another note.... with all the great useless ships, why don't we just start noobs off in battleships. Who needs all those other ones?
btw, I see numerous t1 frigs and cruisers in those few losses you do post. Guess they do serve a purpose.
can you just stfu? i'm not referring to any hydra or anyone. this is a general thing happening everywhere.
at least post with your frickin main. my losses are all posted. show me a hydra kill (aka my loss) that isn't posted. --
Every time a carebear dies an angel gets their wings (murder one)
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E Vile
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.06.15 16:51:00 -
[12]
"people want fast paced action"
Please don't ever mention that again. That's what totally broke Star Wars Galaxies, with their "fast pace New Game Enhancements"
Personally I think they should be concentrating on things that need fixing, and making the game run smoother then nerfing things. I left SWG from having my chars (with years into them) totally ruined with their nerfs, and fast paced NGE crap. "The key to immortality is to first live a life worth remembering."
Shohadaku New York Metal
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