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Shadarle
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Posted - 2007.06.20 06:15:00 -
[1]
While writing my post about implants I realized a broader question would be about loyalty points in general.
What do you think the new value of 1 LP will be? The previous value has been about 1000 ISK for a bit, but it had dropped from 2000-3000 a year ago.
I'm expecting it to maintain at 1000 isk once this initial stupidity stage runs its course... in fact it may even go up a bit with all the new items you can easily buy now.
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Hockston Axe
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.06.20 07:27:00 -
[2]
I think that 1000 isk per LP was the intended value. At least it was. If you looked at old offers that gave you commodities for straight LP and compared it to NPC buy orders for the item, it worked out to 1000 isk per LP.
The Kamerias offer was an easy example of this. Looks like there is no way to make new Kamerias now too, other than failing or ganking a courier mission.
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Cyclops43
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Posted - 2007.06.20 07:27:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Cyclops43 on 20/06/2007 07:27:28 I'd expect it to go down to 100-200, maybe lower....
People are pretty stupid, and will want ISK NOW when selling stuff, so they'll undercut, undercut, undercut. It's exactly the same principle as when people think that minerals they mined themselves are 'free'....
Since there is no real limit on the amount of LP items offered (apart from tags/LP), the market will most likely be swamped...
Tags are going to be the limiting factor, so expect the faction items to keep high(ish) prices. The others are going to drop like rocks......
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Shadarle
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Posted - 2007.06.20 07:39:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Cyclops43 Edited by: Cyclops43 on 20/06/2007 07:27:28 I'd expect it to go down to 100-200, maybe lower....
People are pretty stupid, and will want ISK NOW when selling stuff, so they'll undercut, undercut, undercut. It's exactly the same principle as when people think that minerals they mined themselves are 'free'....
Since there is no real limit on the amount of LP items offered (apart from tags/LP), the market will most likely be swamped...
Tags are going to be the limiting factor, so expect the faction items to keep high(ish) prices. The others are going to drop like rocks......
I disagree. LP's for isk still existed before this patch. And most people turned them in for implants and implants had a good value still. I don't think it will change. It will just take a day or two for people to waste their built up LP's they didn't know they had and to realize they are paying ISK + LP I think.
Until then I am happy to take nearly free items from people tho.
Tanking Setups Compared
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Cyclops43
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Posted - 2007.06.20 07:51:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Shadarle
Originally by: Cyclops43 My post (removed for space)
I disagree. LP's for isk still existed before this patch. And most people turned them in for implants and implants had a good value still. I don't think it will change. It will just take a day or two for people to waste their built up LP's they didn't know they had and to realize they are paying ISK + LP I think.
Until then I am happy to take nearly free items from people tho.
Well, I hope you're right, but don't think so....
Apart from items like nexus chips and skill books, which were limited by the short interval of LP where you could actually get them, LP prices have not been near 1000 ISK/LP for a long time. The CNR was the best one apart from the above two, and it was barely 500 ISK/LP.
We'll see......
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Carniflex
Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project
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Posted - 2007.06.20 07:58:00 -
[6]
I think it will be around 1000 isk/LP. Some people might do bad calls and go under that, but LP store qurantees, that people can go for most profitable offers (supply and demand and all that).
Should LP price go under that then solution is quite simple, dont accept any offers and wait the price go up again. I personally would propably just produce faction ammo for my corp should prices fall too low.
For dedicated missionrunner approx 1000 isk/LP is also around that mark where it's reasonable to produce your own faction ammo to run missions faster (getting bounties faster will provide approx that price for using faction ammo) plus ofc additional LP.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.06.20 08:03:00 -
[7]
Excuse me ?
The books, depending on corp you were working for, could be worth up to 4500 ISK/LP.
CNR was going for over 1 bil ISK before the announced LP-shop introduction, even as high as 1.2 bil ISK. The actual cost to get it was around 500k LP and 300 mil ISK (including minerals to build). Where I'm looking from, that used to be an almost 1800 ISK/LP offer.
The some of the implants were worth (not the Social ones) still around 1000-1500 ISK/LP, if not more. ___
My guess is that expected ISK/LP ratio will suffer a heavy decline, to an average well below 1k/LP for a while, maybe even as low as 700/LP, as everybody scrambles to liquidate their LP that got centralised in the shops.
Once people start realizing they don't NEED to pick anything but the best offer, I fully expect the "going rate" to move closer to the 1k/LP mark, eventually stabilizing somewhere at 1200 ISK/LP or around that (give or take 100). _ New char creation guide | Module/Rig stacknerfing explained |
Shadarle
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Posted - 2007.06.20 08:13:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Akita T Excuse me ?
The books, depending on corp you were working for, could be worth up to 4500 ISK/LP.
CNR was going for over 1 bil ISK before the announced LP-shop introduction, even as high as 1.2 bil ISK. The actual cost to get it was around 500k LP and 300 mil ISK (including minerals to build). Where I'm looking from, that used to be an almost 1800 ISK/LP offer.
The some of the implants were worth (not the Social ones) still around 1000-1500 ISK/LP, if not more. ___
My guess is that expected ISK/LP ratio will suffer a heavy decline, to an average well below 1k/LP for a while, maybe even as low as 700/LP, as everybody scrambles to liquidate their LP that got centralised in the shops.
Once people start realizing they don't NEED to pick anything but the best offer, I fully expect the "going rate" to move closer to the 1k/LP mark, eventually stabilizing somewhere at 1200 ISK/LP or around that (give or take 100).
I have to agree with Akita's final guesses... but I should state that skill books were worth a lot because the offers were quite rare. So they weren't a guaranteed 4500 isk/lp. And the CNR hasn't been worth a billion for months, it was worth 650-750 mil for quite a while because of too many people farming them and too little demand.
Tanking Setups Compared
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Cyclops43
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Posted - 2007.06.20 09:08:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Akita T Excuse me ?
The books, depending on corp you were working for, could be worth up to 4500 ISK/LP.
CNR was going for over 1 bil ISK before the announced LP-shop introduction, even as high as 1.2 bil ISK. The actual cost to get it was around 500k LP and 300 mil ISK (including minerals to build). Where I'm looking from, that used to be an almost 1800 ISK/LP offer.
The some of the implants were worth (not the Social ones) still around 1000-1500 ISK/LP, if not more. ___
My guess is that expected ISK/LP ratio will suffer a heavy decline, to an average well below 1k/LP for a while, maybe even as low as 700/LP, as everybody scrambles to liquidate their LP that got centralised in the shops.
Once people start realizing they don't NEED to pick anything but the best offer, I fully expect the "going rate" to move closer to the 1k/LP mark, eventually stabilizing somewhere at 1200 ISK/LP or around that (give or take 100).
The books were only valuable because the only appeared in a VERY narrow and quite low LP interval (15000-22000 iirc). This meant that your average L4 mission runner would only get like 1 offer where the books were POSSIBLE, and that only if he waited for it (not doing any other missions until the offer came). Thus most books came from people who were doing L3 missions on their way to L4. They're a special case (as the nexus chips), which you can't use to derive trends from.
As for the CNR, what world are you living in?? They've been around or below 800m for months now (having continually declined over the last year or so), with all other empire faction ships even lower. And even at that price, they were just about the best high-LP offer. I.e. an average value of 800-1000 ISK/LP.
The only thing that MIGHT save the LP price is that the number of offers have been expanded heavily (hardwire implants), thus maybe diluting the spent LP enough among the different offers so each will still be worth it.... This is dependent on whether there'll be a high enough demand for the hardwires at their quite high prices (5% ones)...
We'll see how it developes. Atm, all we can do is guess.....
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Gaius Sejanus
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2007.06.20 09:43:00 -
[10]
My best bet is on LP plummetting down into the 500-750 isk/LP range after a few weeks of wierdness.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.06.20 12:07:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Akita T on 20/06/2007 12:22:14 The "kill agent" books were not very valuable, they hovered in the 40-50 mil pricerange. The "utter carebear" books were however BOTH more easily obtainable (less LP per mission increasing the window in which you MIGHT get the offer as a function of missions), and the missions done there also yielded fast implants most of the time. The reason why the former were so cheap even if they were scarce (as a per capita value) was that a vast majority of players would run kill, as opposed to courier agents, making the overall supply side a lot lower (even if the demand was significantly lower too, but not proportionally, especially since lower-level courier pay horrendously).
The official confirmation of a corp-wide LP store being introduced into the game happened over 3 months ago, maybe as much as 4 months ago. CNRs were still selling for over 950 mil ISK not even 2 months ago. Heck, we even had a WHOLE THREAD in here (this sub-forum) discussing pricing and trend prediction for CNR prices a couple of months ago, and I do remember it because I posted in it myself (and so did Shadarle, I recall that too). EDIT: found it
Personally, I was ALWAYS picking up the +3 implant offers whenever offered, and the "cash in" value (for all except social which I would always turn down, and always accept cybernetic, even +4s) was significantly above 1k/LP. Today, as the game started up, I cashed in about 45k LP from peace&order (and around 90k LP from Caldari Navy that I didn't even knew I still had) into Cybernetics +3 and +4s, and gained a bit more than 200 mil net profit in the quicksell process (had quite some leftover LP which I proceeded to spend on collector crap). _ New char creation guide | Module/Rig stacknerfing explained |
Cyclops43
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Posted - 2007.06.20 12:42:00 -
[12]
The decline in CNR prices started well before any speculations about Rev I/II features....., just at about the same time Implants started dropping in price too.
That the two only worthwhile high-LP rewards both start dropping steadily implies that supply > demand, i.e. too many LP being generated. That is a far more likely explanation than speculation if future changes to the LP system.
Having an LP store will not mean anything for which offer people will choose (except for things that was only available in a narrow LP band before, like books), because before the store was introduced, people simply just waited for the offer they wanted. I've accepted 3 CNR BPC offers over the last year, and have not used LP for anything else (apart from a CNC BPC because I wanted one). Now I can get them without waiting.... big deal... (not)
The only thing that'll cause fewer CNR's in the game is if other offers are worth more.... Whether they are or not will be seen during the next few months.... Initially, people will spend a lot of LP on faction ammo, 5% hardwire implants and +5's, so I don't think we can see the final value of 1 LP until 3-6 months from now....
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Thradius
Tau Ceti Global Production Rule of Three
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Posted - 2007.06.20 14:42:00 -
[13]
Well, if you look around you can see that there are NPC buy orders for nexus chips at 1000 isk = 1 lp. So that sets a minimum isk per lp conversion rate for people who want to cash out their lp. Although I do agree that some people who don't understand that will cash out for less.
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Carniflex
Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project
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Posted - 2007.06.20 15:29:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Thradius Well, if you look around you can see that there are NPC buy orders for nexus chips at 1000 isk = 1 lp. So that sets a minimum isk per lp conversion rate for people who want to cash out their lp. Although I do agree that some people who don't understand that will cash out for less.
Very good to know . That means I don't have to switch corp from ishukone (it offers 8k LP nexsus chips) and thus have lower limit under what I can just cash in my LP's if market crashes too low. On the other hand typical 'combat' corporations do not offer nexsus chips (as I understand those come only from R&D corps) and majority of missionsrunners are still working for mainstream combat agents.
Even without that NPC fixsed lower limit I find it unlikey that value would drop far under 1k / LP limit. If nothing else then low LP/isk value would result in cheap faction ammo (it is good, I tried it already, as good as t2 fury missiles without any drawbacks). PvP pilots would switch to that ammo over t2 and I dount that it would sell far under current t2 ammo prices (ok, granted current t2 ammo prices are also quite low).
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Big Al
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2007.06.20 15:56:00 -
[15]
Depends if CCP will ever do anything about the isk farming mission runners. (the answer is no, so the final value will probably be under 400-500/lp)
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Dal Thrax
Multiverse Corporation The Core Collective
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Posted - 2007.06.20 18:13:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Shadarle
Originally by: Cyclops43 Edited by: Cyclops43 on 20/06/2007 07:27:28 I'd expect it to go down to 100-200, maybe lower....
People are pretty stupid, and will want ISK NOW when selling stuff, so they'll undercut, undercut, undercut. It's exactly the same principle as when people think that minerals they mined themselves are 'free'....
Since there is no real limit on the amount of LP items offered (apart from tags/LP), the market will most likely be swamped...
Tags are going to be the limiting factor, so expect the faction items to keep high(ish) prices. The others are going to drop like rocks......
I disagree. LP's for isk still existed before this patch. And most people turned them in for implants and implants had a good value still. I don't think it will change. It will just take a day or two for people to waste their built up LP's they didn't know they had and to realize they are paying ISK + LP I think.
Until then I am happy to take nearly free items from people tho.
Actually I think the price of implants will go up but volume will decline. Most mission runners are going to want the pretty little faction toys. No real reason to cash in LP's for implants to sell, price goes up. On the other hand when most runners need them personally they're just going to go to the LP store, volume goes down.
Dal
Dal
Originally by: Seleene It seems to me that 'independence' is a relative term these days, determined mainly by the size and number of your guns.
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Kua Immortal
RSP Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.06.20 19:04:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Kua Immortal on 20/06/2007 19:03:23 Well I've seen one way to get 3,000 isk/LP from (a) pirate corp(s). If only I had those LP :P.
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Shadarle
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Posted - 2007.06.20 20:11:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Dal Thrax
Originally by: Shadarle
Originally by: Cyclops43 Edited by: Cyclops43 on 20/06/2007 07:27:28 I'd expect it to go down to 100-200, maybe lower....
People are pretty stupid, and will want ISK NOW when selling stuff, so they'll undercut, undercut, undercut. It's exactly the same principle as when people think that minerals they mined themselves are 'free'....
Since there is no real limit on the amount of LP items offered (apart from tags/LP), the market will most likely be swamped...
Tags are going to be the limiting factor, so expect the faction items to keep high(ish) prices. The others are going to drop like rocks......
I disagree. LP's for isk still existed before this patch. And most people turned them in for implants and implants had a good value still. I don't think it will change. It will just take a day or two for people to waste their built up LP's they didn't know they had and to realize they are paying ISK + LP I think.
Until then I am happy to take nearly free items from people tho.
Actually I think the price of implants will go up but volume will decline. Most mission runners are going to want the pretty little faction toys. No real reason to cash in LP's for implants to sell, price goes up. On the other hand when most runners need them personally they're just going to go to the LP store, volume goes down.
Dal
I have to agree. The non mission runners will be the ones paying for implants and will be paying a premium for them. The only other source will be the random 1 implant from storylines.
Tanking Setups Compared
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SonOfAGhost
Minmatar Munitions and Tactical Assets Repository Zzz
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Posted - 2007.06.21 12:58:00 -
[19]
Looking at skill books which can be either purchased from NPCs on the market for isk OR for pure LP from the store. CCP is valuing LP at approximately 900 isk.
Lag? GTFOOJ! |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.06.21 16:04:00 -
[20]
Look at nexus chip LP shop offers and NPC buy orders. Those are 1000 ISK/LP guaranteed. Too bad not ALL corps have the chip offers. _ New char creation guide | Module/Rig stacknerfing explained |
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Hockston Axe
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.06.21 19:14:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Akita T Look at nexus chip LP shop offers and NPC buy orders. Those are 1000 ISK/LP guaranteed. Too bad not ALL corps have the chip offers.
Amarr doesn't buy back their Nexus Chips. There are no NPC buy orders for them. It looks Gallente doesn't either. Only Caldari and Minmatar do for sure.
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Frecator Dementa
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Posted - 2007.06.21 19:53:00 -
[22]
gallente buy nexus chips back, I can guarantee that
-sig- <-- Passive shield takner |
Hockston Axe
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.06.21 21:23:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Frecator Dementa gallente buy nexus chips back, I can guarantee that
hmm, so just Amarr gets screwed then, what a surprise.
I'm barely allowed in Gal space as it is, so I didn't go look there, but in Domain you can sell Caldari and Minni chips. I noticed the lack of Amarr chip NPC buy orders months ago, maybe it's time to bug report that.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.06.22 00:37:00 -
[24]
Core Compexion buys Minnie chips Duvolle buys Gallente chips Kaalakiota buys Caldari chips
I bet ONE of the amarr R&D corps (most probably Viziam) is buying the nexus chips, you're just not in the proper region to see the order. _ New char creation guide | Module/Rig stacknerfing explained |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.06.22 19:53:00 -
[25]
Of course, all of this merely applies to normal people. You can't reason with those with a "LPs are free anyway" mentality that sell stuff barely above LP shop ISK cost (or even below). But then again... resale value, trade opportunity, buy orders galore _ New char creation guide | Module/Rig stacknerfing explained |
Hockston Axe
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.06.22 20:04:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Hockston Axe on 22/06/2007 20:08:28 Edited by: Hockston Axe on 22/06/2007 20:03:29
Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 22/06/2007 00:55:37 Core Compexion buys Minnie chips Duvolle buys Gallente chips Kaalakiota buys Caldari chips
I bet ONE of the amarr R&D corps (most probably Viziam) is buying the nexus chips, you're just not in the proper region to see the order.
EDIT: Ayup ! Commodity / Miscellaneous / Amarr TIL-1 Nexus Chip for 8,000,000.00 ISK (last transaction was 2007.06.21 10:13: 35 units at Baviasi II - Moon 1 - Viziam Factory
Thanks. I guess I just assumed that if Carthum doesn't do it, nobody does it.
also it's a bit odd that the capital region for Amarr doesn't have it, but does have the Cal and Minni ones. Carthum gives out the chips, I even have around 4 of each from back in the day from them, they should buy them back. Since Carthum rocks so hard and all that.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.06.22 20:50:00 -
[27]
Checking "item database" NPC trade FTW Nah, I did that after I looked ingame at the item's descriptions. Funny though, the corps that have BUY oders for them are the ones listed in the item description as MANUFACTURERS
As for what corps give out nexus chips in LP shop, it seems all non-combat corps have them. The combat corps don't have them. At least that's what I noticed after a quick look around. I usually work for Peace&Order unit, they don't have it in their shop. Caldari Navy also seems to not have it. _ New char creation guide | Module/Rig stacknerfing explained |
Karanth
Gallente Cirrius Technologies O X I D E
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Posted - 2007.06.23 02:21:00 -
[28]
Then we have another reason to laugh at the fools whoring Caldari Navy agents in the Lag Triangle.
Free beer for those who mod my sig!
There is only one sig hijack that matters, the orginal and only member of the hijack squad. me. -Eris. ps Black russians are better then beer. I'll see your beer, and raise you a goat kebab -Tirg I'll take that pint and raise you two -Timmeh I bet 2 goats, 1 pint and a bag of slugs -Lordharold I grab it all, cook it/eat and drink it all and say thank you. -Pirlouit I'll call your bluff, and go all in on 3 locks of Hutch's hair. -Incognus I'll see that bet, depending on where the hair came from. -Rauth *pushes the other mods out of the way* Mmmm, bree - Karass Bree & goat kebabs!!! I'm in!! - Yips I swear i was in on this and someone took me out -Scyd How did I miss free BREE!!? -Kaemonn |
Dangermouse DM
Caldari Black River Industries APEX Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.06.24 04:19:00 -
[29]
Each faction (major ones anyway) have 3 types of corp with 3 types of LP store. I can't see the LP from each of these corp types being worth the same There is a lot of LP and users of combat corps so this will likely go the way you guys are predicting, but the demand for the other items that only those less used corps provide will see the LP from them being worth a little more. If you consider things like the Invention Implant (or any specialised implant) or the Nexus Chips the LP from those corps can be worth maybe 2 or 3 times the combat corps LP.
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Mr Broker
Imperial Shipment
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Posted - 2007.06.24 08:11:00 -
[30]
800 isk/lp
npc buy orders, enough said.
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