|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Plutonian
Intransigent
1
|
Posted - 2012.01.06 02:07:00 -
[1] - Quote
CCP, why are you killing off the Rifter? That's what these proposed changes will do... obselete every T1 frig for solo PvP.
I'm not trying to be rude, but these changes seem very poorly thought out. The Jag and Wolf especially will be massively overpowered.
Honestly, how many T1 frigates and cruisers do you see in lowsec anymore? As compared to 2009? Or 2007?
Don't kill off one the most fun parts of the game. Please. Think this one through. |
Plutonian
Intransigent
2
|
Posted - 2012.01.06 07:26:00 -
[2] - Quote
Prometheus, I get the feeling you don't give a damn about anything (especially low sec) as long as you get the new toy you desire. Across two threads on two different forums you've tried to shout down, ridicule, and insult every single dissenting opinion. I've yet to see the tactic change even one person's mind. The very fact that you have to resort to such a strategy shows how deeply and personally invested in these changes you are.
You know... I'd love to remove bubbles, capital ships, jump bridges, and interdictors from the game completely. I would very much enjoy a game like that. But given how many players do enjoy that stuff, you'd never see me campaigning to screw them over so I could get what I want.
|
Plutonian
Intransigent
5
|
Posted - 2012.01.06 16:30:00 -
[3] - Quote
Tawa Suyo wrote:I would of course like to see the opinions of others ~based on SiSi testing~ (not based on EFT warrioring and random conjecture please).
Your argument is flawed. SiSi cannot illustrate the affect a super-buffed ship class will have on a Tranquility Low Sec... it lacks the population for such modelling.
I don't have an issue with the MWD bonus. I agree it makes AF more viable in null... and that's a Good Thing (even if I don't fly in null; are you listening Prom?). And I agree the Retribution needs that other mid.
But the other outright buffs are way too much. They would raise the bar for anyone daring to enter low-sec; either get in an AF or stay out. We just got rid of the damn Dramiel problem, and you want to inflict another plague upon us?
I'm saying this as a player with AF V trained since 2007. Do the MWD thing. Do the extra slot for the Retribution. Make a few changes to the other classes.
But take it slow until you see the effect it has upon a large population of the player base. (That's right Prom, there's actually a lot of us out here in silly ole lowsec.) |
Plutonian
Intransigent
5
|
Posted - 2012.01.06 17:11:00 -
[4] - Quote
Tawa Suyo wrote:Plutonian wrote:But the other outright buffs are way too much. They would raise the bar for anyone daring to enter low-sec; either get in an AF or stay out. Or a faction frig. Or a good combat inty. Basically the same as now... Or they could just do what they've always done and grab a T1 frig while they skill up, plenty of other T1 frigs to fight, same as now (cheap fun and all).
THERE!
Right there. I bolded and underlined it. Let's translate: While they skill up for Assault Ships because they have become the new baseline frigate.
It is ironic that I moved to Hevrice because you guys (and BRRC, but they've moved far away) actually come out and fight solo in T1 frigates. After the changes... will I ever get you out of the AS? What reason would you have to fly any other frigate? Should I just go ahead and reprocess the hundreds of Rifters I have on stock?
|
Plutonian
Intransigent
5
|
Posted - 2012.01.06 18:01:00 -
[5] - Quote
Prometheus Exenthal wrote:@ Plutonian Here's a question for you; As a HAC pilot, why would I ever go back to T1 cruisers? Because you live in nullsec and T1 cruisers have no role there. (Yes... don't choke... I've actually lived in null where I endured endless crap from my alliance leader for flying Stabbers, Ruptures, Rifters and Jaguars (back when Jags really were s**t). In fact, I often complained that T1 frigs and cruisers should have a role in 0.0 warfare. But changes to one part of this game affect others (drastically sometimes), and I'd not destroy the fun of another spaceship-game-player for my own desires.
Quid pro quo, Prometheus. Quid pro quo...
Honest question: Have you become so personally obsessed with getting your changes into the game (playing developer) that you can no longer hear dissent?
You see, a good game designer puts his ideas forward. He thinks it will be a cool change. But if he become obsessed to the point that he can no longer hear or understand criticism of his idea then he's become a liability to the team and the project.
Here's another:
Do you think buffing a particular ship class far in advance of it's brethren does not obsolete other ships of that class? (Remember: I answered your question honestly... without applying my own desires to slant the response. Let's see if you can do the same.)
|
Plutonian
Intransigent
7
|
Posted - 2012.01.06 19:14:00 -
[6] - Quote
Tawa Suyo wrote:So what you're saying is nerf link alts and pirate implants?
Yeh. I like that suggestion.
Actually, I do too.
Since the forums just ate my monster post (wherein I reply point by point to Prom and Tawa)
Short version:
Prom: I agree with much of what you said. (And Tawa too for that matter.) However:
I believe the current proposed buffs (excluding MWD changes) are overpowered.
I disagree that a Rifter today cannot take on a competent AF and win.
I believe that with the proposed changes, T1 frigates will have zero chance against even poorly flown AF's. I believe this will not enrich target opportunities in lowsec.
I fear that with the proposed changes AF's simply become the new Dramiel.
But, Ava makes a great point. I can always be that archaic, weirdo pilot. Perhaps they'll tell stories about me. "Hey kids, if you go to the dark belts of lowsec, and if the moon is right, you might be lucky enough to encounter the fabled Rifter pilot, haunting the dark asteroid fields forever searching for another T1 frigate to fight. His kind passed away long ago, but he never moved on. Oh.. and don't fly an AF... you'll scare him away."
It's either that or throw away all my T1 frigs, which in spite of being able to fly other craft, I enjoy. |
Plutonian
Intransigent
7
|
Posted - 2012.01.06 22:46:00 -
[7] - Quote
Prometheus Exenthal wrote:@PlutonianI dunno man, you're guaranteed that there will always be that one type of person who nanos everything. And that person will be shredded by a competent T1 pilot
Why didn't I think of that? I'll just leroy myself against them until I find one that's s**t-fit.
BRB: Removing AF from my overview.
|
Plutonian
Intransigent
7
|
Posted - 2012.01.08 04:13:00 -
[8] - Quote
seller1122 wrote:So congrats at insulting a fair chunk of the people supporting you (myself included) .... Dude... are you surprised? He's insulted just about everyone here throughout the entire thread.
When I read his posts I hear them in Eric Cartman's voice in my head.
|
Plutonian
Intransigent
7
|
Posted - 2012.01.08 07:42:00 -
[9] - Quote
Prometheus Exenthal wrote:It's not personal or anything, I'm just telling it how it is It's mass testing, nobody is a special snowflake. Things either do or don't work. And on sisi, AFs work.
Relax. Just having some fun.
And you're quite wrong... I am a very special little snowflake. My mommie told me so... so I know it has to be true.
ITT: Empire, Lowsec, and Nullsec are forced to share ships but find they can't get along. |
Plutonian
Intransigent
10
|
Posted - 2012.01.08 19:19:00 -
[10] - Quote
Prometheus Exenthal wrote:As for the Hawk, I'm not sure what planet you're living on where the Hawk is ridiculous.
I, too, look forward to flying the new mini-Blackbird/assault Keres.
|
|
Plutonian
Intransigent
10
|
Posted - 2012.01.08 19:46:00 -
[11] - Quote
Prometheus Exenthal wrote:I don't know what you're going to disrupt with 1-2 unbonused damps/jammers, but I'd feel bad for the first person to do it who gets shredded by a Rifter.
Dude... took on a Merlin and never got a lock during the entire fight. http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=14864691
(Can we post our own killmails? Guess CCP will pull it if not...)
|
Plutonian
Intransigent
10
|
Posted - 2012.01.08 20:07:00 -
[12] - Quote
Prometheus Exenthal wrote:That's more of an ECM issue than a "lolol this ship is so strong" type of thing. You're going to have a hard time chewing through AFs fast enough. You're really just making it easier for yourself to gank T1 frigates, which isn't a really a big deal when they already do that
Point I'm attempting to make is that any midslot added over the magic number three on a frigate becomes a force multiplier. They should be added with caution.
And the fact that there exists an 'ECM issue' is not being debated. However, while this issue exists, the new Hawk is affected by it. |
Plutonian
Intransigent
10
|
Posted - 2012.01.08 20:48:00 -
[13] - Quote
Prometheus Exenthal wrote:@PlutonianThey could EASILY just nerf the **** out of ECM modules and increase the bonus to the jamming ships Voila, ECM is now next to useless on non-jamming boats.
They could.
Though they have not.
|
Plutonian
Intransigent
12
|
Posted - 2012.01.10 17:02:00 -
[14] - Quote
I'm going to weigh in on this one more time, then I'll let it go. But since Prom seems not to care, I'm going to address this directly to CCP Tallest (My Tallest! My Tallest!!! My Talleeeesssttt!!).
I resist the proposed changes in their current form for two reasons; 1.) they are the textbook definition of power-creep, and 2.) given the irrational behavior of Prometheus, I cannot believe he, the admitted author of the changes, does not have a personal vested interest which renders the changes suspect (at best) or simply overpowered (at worst).
Non-Thrasher destroyers needed some love; the entire class was buffed. AF needed a bit of oomph; now across-the-board buffs are proposed. Hopefully, next it will be T1 frigates; eventually someone will realize they need a buff to stay competitive in any way (and currently only four or five are typically flown in combat these days) .
Don't get me wrong: power creep is far better than stagnation. But, to be perfectly honest, these changes seem 'klutzy'. Driving a nail with a sledgehammer. Targeted 'fixes' on a ship by ship basis will do far more to encourage fun gameplay than buffs-across-the-board.
The MWD bonus seems fine. Extra slots on Retribution have been needed for a long time.
What Prometheus (and some others) cannot understand is that no ship exists in a vacuum (not to be taken literally). Changes to a single ship type affect the ships that fly around them. If the Rifter wasn't the king of T1 frigates, you'd see more Breechers out there.
Forever 'setting the bar higher' was the tactic of the old arcade games. They didn't have the resources to create good balance. Eve exists at a time when that balance strategy could be better.
In the last two months, solo PvP'ing across two combat-oriented zones (Hevrice to OMS, Amamake area) with two different characters, I have suffered a security status drop only twice. Why? The people flying T1 frigs were either Tuskers (who down-ship for Rifters as corp policy) or Black Rebel Rifter Club (who attract the few remaining Rifter pilots).
Perhaps I'm just unlucky. Maybe as soon as I log off the skies fill with T1 frigates (which I've darkly suspected from time to time). But I cannot shake the feeling that good ole T1 frigate combat in low-sec is sick... and getting worse. A previous poster mentioned that since the whole Dramiel incident interceptor populations have been slow to rebound. This is true, and doubly so for the T1 frigates.
So, if power creep is to be the plan of the day, please look at rebalancing the T1 frigs in the future.
|
Plutonian
Intransigent
13
|
Posted - 2012.01.11 01:34:00 -
[15] - Quote
Prometheus Exenthal wrote:AFs are fundamentally flawed in that they have poor performance operating offensively (4th bonus/slots), and exceedingly poor performance operating evasively and defensively.
Prove it.
|
Plutonian
Intransigent
13
|
Posted - 2012.01.11 01:56:00 -
[16] - Quote
Battle Helios best helios.
EDIT: And to add some content, Prom has agreed that the T1 frigs, pirate frigs, Assault frigs, and cruisers need a buff. I think those should come first before we start buffing battle cruisers, battle ships, and caps. |
Plutonian
Intransigent
13
|
Posted - 2012.01.11 02:16:00 -
[17] - Quote
I have to say the thing that scares me the most is the impression that everyone flying T1 frigs in lowsec are:
1.) poor 2.) learning to PvP 3.) training for 'better' ships
I have billions, have been fighting for years, and I can fly every sub-cap (90% with near perfect skills). I can only assume the same when I see Miura Bull or Wensley or other well known Rifter pilots in game (not that I'm comparing my PvP prowess to them... they're really damn good).
|
Plutonian
Intransigent
13
|
Posted - 2012.01.11 02:46:00 -
[18] - Quote
Nice kill. Double web Rifter or did he just plow in?
You were, however, screwed by the Loot Fairy.
|
Plutonian
Intransigent
13
|
Posted - 2012.01.12 07:24:00 -
[19] - Quote
Prometheus Exenthal wrote:I hate to break it to you, but escaping a dual neut cane has more to do with said cane being bad, rather than some expert piloting by you.
I'll make sure I pass the message on that you've no idea what you're talking about.
You need to realize that you are not the only ones who play the game.
You can look at my ticker and put me off as another Goon, but that doesn't change how my friends and I play the game.
I think it's you who needs to wake up and look at what game you're playing.
I don't want to have to pull the smug elite-pvp card, but you don't seem to understand much more than braggadocio.
Wow, if you were trying to use those as FRIGATE combaters, you've got other problems.
Go try them out before you post some more nonsense .
I can understand your concern with players who have a lower skill level, but the fact of the matter is that everyone is skilling up constantly.
Any arguments against the changes are founded in hyperbole and powered by fear-mongering.
You've got a pretty misguided and perhaps a bit biased view of the changes.
The fewe Low-Sec players are unhappy because they are stubborn, and/or haven't been testing.
It's hard to believe someone can be so obtuse.
It's a double-edged sword. I'm not saying everyone is bad, but you have to work with the assumption.
It's not personal or anything, I'm just telling it how it is
Prometheus, are you proud of how you act? |
Plutonian
Intransigent
13
|
Posted - 2012.01.12 08:49:00 -
[20] - Quote
Forgive me. It's a morbid fascination.
These are the people most like you. You have something in common with them. They enjoy fighting with internet spaceships. Yet this is how you speak to them (these were your actual quotes, but I only went about 4 pages back).
Are you proud of how you deal with others?
|
|
Plutonian
Intransigent
13
|
Posted - 2012.01.12 08:56:00 -
[21] - Quote
You've yet to answer the question.
Are you proud of the way you act? |
Plutonian
Intransigent
13
|
Posted - 2012.01.12 16:32:00 -
[22] - Quote
Prometheus Exenthal wrote:Plutonian wrote:You've yet to answer the question. Are you proud of the way you act? Right you are! No, I wouldn't use proud to describe it. But sometimes situations need a bit of douche.
Thank you. |
|
|
|