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Lord Fuxaton
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Posted - 2007.06.20 15:03:00 -
[31]
*snip* no pictures, and that contained some inappropriate stuff as well.... - hutch
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Arii Smith
Caldari StarHunt Fallout Project
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Posted - 2007.06.20 15:03:00 -
[32]
Posting on a forum a lot is NOT the same as a DDOS attack, and it demonstrates your complete technical ineptitude that you could think that at all...
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Lord Fuxaton
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Posted - 2007.06.20 15:05:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Arii Smith Posting on a forum a lot is NOT the same as a DDOS attack, and it demonstrates your complete technical ineptitude that you could think that at all...
Well it is a ddos attack when it completely shuts this forum down as it did. But yes you're right technically it wasn't. Just like technically someone who gets a sex change from male to female is now considered a woman.
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Arii Smith
Caldari StarHunt Fallout Project
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Posted - 2007.06.20 15:07:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Arii Smith on 20/06/2007 15:07:29 Edited by: Arii Smith on 20/06/2007 15:07:21 No you toolbox, if I were to set up a really **** poor forum on my own personal computer hosting off a 56k and you posted three times in a row (which would probably crash it) is that a DDOS attack? No, that is me having a ****ty server.
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Quasar Black
Minmatar Rens 911
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Posted - 2007.06.20 15:08:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Lord Fuxaton
Originally by: Arii Smith Posting on a forum a lot is NOT the same as a DDOS attack, and it demonstrates your complete technical ineptitude that you could think that at all...
Well it is a ddos attack when it completely shuts this forum down as it did. But yes you're right technically it wasn't. Just like technically someone who gets a sex change from male to female is now considered a woman.
Technically speaking what the goons did wasn't a DDOS. The forums were working just fine up until the point CCP shut them down themselves. But let's not delude ourselves with the details like that.
**** GOONS!
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Lord Fuxaton
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Posted - 2007.06.20 15:09:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Arii Smith Edited by: Arii Smith on 20/06/2007 15:07:29 Edited by: Arii Smith on 20/06/2007 15:07:21 No you toolbox, if I were to set up a really **** poor forum on my own personal computer hosting off a 56k and you posted three times in a row (which would probably crash it) is that a DDOS attack? No, that is me having a ****ty server.
why would you do that? you do know even if you're winning this argument, I won't agree with you right? After all this is the internets....
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Arii Smith
Caldari StarHunt Fallout Project
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Posted - 2007.06.20 15:10:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Arii Smith on 20/06/2007 15:09:09 I guess my frustration at this topic stems from a bunch of 13 year olds who think "posting a lot" is the same as 1337 haxxing someones TCP/IP protocol and bringing their modem down with a brute force attack.
One is a DDOS, the other is flattering yourself.
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Mallick
Northern Intelligence
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Posted - 2007.06.20 15:12:00 -
[38]
Pointless to run TCP/HTTP flood unless you have a fiber or lots of zombies..
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bloomich
Trotter's Independent Traders Co
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Posted - 2007.06.20 15:14:00 -
[39]
End of the day, you denied eve users of the service of the forums by being bart of a denial of service campaign by mass spaming with your friends.
The real shock is that there was not apology afterwards with a view to move forwards. That is worse than the crime tbh.
--SIG-- I am aware that my name means reproductive organ in another language, I bought this char for isk with that name without relising that. |
Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.06.20 15:16:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 20/06/2007 15:18:21
Originally by: Arii Smith I guess my frustration at this topic stems from a bunch of 13 year olds who think "posting a lot" is the same as 1337 haxxing someones TCP/IP protocol and bringing their modem down with a brute force attack.
One is a DDOS, the other is flattering yourself.
Flooding a forum means people can't use it to its fullest capacity.
You have denied them service.
Therefore, its a DDOS.
A weak one of course, and not very difficult to combat, but still technically a DDOS.
I mean, I would consider it a DDOS when a *chan /i/nvades another forum and crashes it to the ground through tens of thousands of posts in a crapflood. Of course, its more impressive when they all get out their Longcat HTTP/TCP flooders and kill Subeta or something.
23 Member
EVE Video makers: save EVE-files bandwidth! Use the H.264 AutoEncoder! |
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Mud Pandemonium
Minmatar Trainwreck INC.
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Posted - 2007.06.20 15:19:00 -
[41]
Lord Fuxaton.
That name is hilarious on levels you cannot begin to imagine.
We had our words, a common spat. So I kissed him upside the cranium with an aluminum baseball bat. My name is Mud. |
Tarminic
Black Flame Industries
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Posted - 2007.06.20 15:23:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Quasar Black
Originally by: Lord Fuxaton
Originally by: Arii Smith Posting on a forum a lot is NOT the same as a DDOS attack, and it demonstrates your complete technical ineptitude that you could think that at all...
Well it is a ddos attack when it completely shuts this forum down as it did. But yes you're right technically it wasn't. Just like technically someone who gets a sex change from male to female is now considered a woman.
Technically speaking what the goons did wasn't a DDOS. The forums were working just fine up until the point CCP shut them down themselves. But let's not delude ourselves with the details like that.
**** GOONS!
Actually, launching a Denial of Service attack doesn't have to cause the servers themselves to crash as a result. Here's how wikipedia defines it:
Originally by: Wikipedia
A denial-of-service attack (DoS attack) is an attempt to make a computer resource unavailable to its intended users. Although the means to, motives for and targets of a DoS attack may vary, it generally comprises the concerted, malevolent efforts of a person or persons to prevent an Internet site or service from functioning efficiently or at all, temporarily or indefinitely.
GS didn't need to physically take down the servers to have perpetrated the attack - all they needed to do was make it generally ineffective for people to use the website. Given that their posts were so frequent it made it very difficult to read anything other than their immature verbal dribble, I'd say this falls firmly within the definition of a DoS attack. <sig> IBTL! IBDS! IBTC! 1st in a BoB Post! And other such forum tom-foolery. Join my Corporation! |
Damon Ra
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.06.20 15:24:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
You have denied them service.
Therefore, its a DDOS.
A weak one of course, and not very difficult to combat, but still technically a DDOS.
Untrue.
I was personally whorum foring when this all went down. There was nothing wrong with the forums at all, other than the goons were posting everywhere. The forum mods took the forums down so they could clean-up all the threads and start mass banning the offenders.
The postings in themselves did nothing to prevent me and others from whorum foring, it was CCP's choice to temporarily suspend the forums so they could ramp-up their monitoring and moderator intervention.
CCP could have just as well kept the forums up while cleaning the posts and banning users, however, they probably felt it was necessary to take it down to simply catch up in an attempt to prevent anyone from seeing the posts, i.e. bad publicity.
Current Tranquility status: SELECT production_code FROM SISI WHERE testers = 'players' AND testers <> 'ccp_staff' AND testing_duration <> 'sufficient'; |
bloomich
Trotter's Independent Traders Co
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Posted - 2007.06.20 15:25:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: Arii Smith I guess my frustration at this topic stems from a bunch of 13 year olds who think "posting a lot" is the same as 1337 haxxing someones TCP/IP protocol and bringing their modem down with a brute force attack.
One is a DDOS, the other is flattering yourself.
Flooding a forum means people can't use it to its fullest capacity.
You have denied them service.
Therefore, its a DDOS.
A weak one of course, and not very difficult to combat, but still technically a DDOS.
It was a DDOS in its correct form, so they dont even qualify for a "technicality". Here is a example for people for DoS vs DDos
DoS: Someone phoning your number constantly. Eventually you can bar his number or get the cops to his house to get on with life.
DDoS: Someone using a exteral method to get people to phone you constantly from multiple sources. E.g calling a flash mob to mass call a mark. All of a sudden, hundreds of people are DDoSing the mark and it is not practical for the mark to stop the attackers because of their distributed nature.
So goons did a DDoS attack on the forums, unless DDoS has a special definition localised to SA forums?
--SIG-- I am aware that my name means reproductive organ in another language, I bought this char for isk with that name without relising that. |
Draygo Korvan
Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys
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Posted - 2007.06.20 15:25:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Arii Smith Edited by: Arii Smith on 20/06/2007 15:09:09 I guess my frustration at this topic stems from a bunch of 13 year olds who think "posting a lot" is the same as 1337 haxxing someones TCP/IP protocol and bringing their modem down with a brute force attack.
One is a DOS, the other is flattering yourself.
Corrected. Unless you are using a botnet or lots of friends, its not a distributed denial of service attack.
Posting on the forums can be a DDOS attack. But what the goons did was not such a thing because they weren't all using a script to spam 1,000 messages per user every minute to bring the server to its knees. The forums did break (stickies got unstickied somehow), though it wasnt from the spam but to some forum bug somewhere that I hope CCP fixed. After all if the goons objective is to get their point of view out, crashing/denying people access to the forums is the last thing they wanted to do.
(And for the record the goons did call off their posting spree 15 minutes before CCP brought the forums down.)
You arn't going to start accusing CCP of doing a DOS when they reset the game servers or block access to the forums for patching are you?
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Deschenus Maximus
Amarr Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades
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Posted - 2007.06.20 15:27:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Quasar Black
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: Quasar Black Saving this thread from itself.
The image in your post fails tbh
At least post something powerful, like Lemonparty!
I was camping the pipe from Badivefi to your Outposts in Querious an you came by in a shuttle. I was like "Hey Dark Shikari! Hi! Hello Dark Shikari!" But you ignored me and kept going. Didn't even give me the chance to pod you.
Dark Shikari will have nothing to do with the likes of mere mortals such as you!
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bloomich
Trotter's Independent Traders Co
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Posted - 2007.06.20 15:31:00 -
[47]
Edited by: bloomich on 20/06/2007 15:30:30
Originally by: Draygo Korvan Posting on the forums can be a DDOS attack. But what the goons did was not such a thing because they weren't all using a script to spam 1,000 messages per user every minute to bring the server to its knees.
Incorrect. Goons had a scripted website where users could copy/paste a bunch of waffle. then they would each manually mass spam. It was part of the "Threadnought" plan they had to go out with a bang by mass spaming this forum in the hope that users would be denyied their service.
Scripts are not needed for DDOS, nor do numbers matter. All that matters is that the event is distributed and denies service to the intended audiance. Even a million people thowing pebbles in a river to make a dam to deny people water is recognised as a DDOS attack.
--SIG-- I am aware that my name means reproductive organ in another language, I bought this char for isk with that name without relising that. |
Havoc GunStar
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.06.20 15:35:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 20/06/2007 15:18:21
Originally by: Arii Smith I guess my frustration at this topic stems from a bunch of 13 year olds who think "posting a lot" is the same as 1337 haxxing someones TCP/IP protocol and bringing their modem down with a brute force attack.
One is a DDOS, the other is flattering yourself.
Flooding a forum means people can't use it to its fullest capacity.
You have denied them service.
Therefore, its a DDOS.
A weak one of course, and not very difficult to combat, but still technically a DDOS.
I mean, I would consider it a DDOS when a *chan /i/nvades another forum and crashes it to the ground through tens of thousands of posts in a crapflood. Of course, its more impressive when they all get out their Longcat HTTP/TCP flooders and kill Subeta or something.
We didn't deny anyone anything. CCP turned off these forums in lieu of moderation. Even though you just used the word invasion, you are apparently willfully mistaking a forum invasion for a DDoS. If we were trying to bring down the eve-o forums with traffic, why did every post we made link back to our own forums? Are you suggesting Goonfleet.com can handle more traffic than CCP's commercial forums?
If your goal is to overload something with traffic, you don't do it by linking back to your own bandwidth. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels -Kreul Intentions ([email protected])
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Draygo Korvan
Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys
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Posted - 2007.06.20 15:38:00 -
[49]
Originally by: bloomich Edited by: bloomich on 20/06/2007 15:30:30
Originally by: Draygo Korvan Posting on the forums can be a DDOS attack. But what the goons did was not such a thing because they weren't all using a script to spam 1,000 messages per user every minute to bring the server to its knees.
Incorrect. Goons had a scripted website where users could copy/paste a bunch of waffle. then they would each manually mass spam. It was part of the "Threadnought" plan they had to go out with a bang by mass spaming this forum in the hope that users would be denyied their service.
Scripts are not needed for DDOS, nor do numbers matter. All that matters is that the event is distributed and denies service to the intended audiance. Even a million people thowing pebbles in a river to make a dam to deny people water is recognised as a DDOS attack.
Let me help you.
Wikipedia says:
Quote: A denial-of-service attack (DoS attack) is an attempt to make a computer resource unavailable to its intended users. Although the means to, motives for and targets of a DoS attack may vary, it generally comprises the concerted, malevolent efforts of a person or persons to prevent an Internet site or service from functioning efficiently or at all, temporarily or indefinitely.
Read the bolded part. Bringing the servers offline would have been counter productive to the goons goal of that "threadnought". It was actually CCP's choice to bring the forums offline, and they actually did it after the attack was called off.
If you call what the goons did a DoS attack then other things suddenly become DoS Attacks.
Is the patching service getting overloaded and going down a DDoS attack on patch day? Even though the thousands and thousands of people refreshing the connection is making the situation worse? |
Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.20 15:39:00 -
[50]
I find your views intriguing, and would like to subscribe to your newsletter. --------
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