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Moridin920
Gallente Dust Echoes FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.23 09:25:00 -
[1]
Maybe I'm just not getting something here, but I'm a little angry right now and obviously the other side can't be impartial either so I'm just trying to get some opinions...
Basically, a few corp mates and I are pirating. We have about four battleships with us, pretty much all Gallente blaster boats (we had one scorpion ECMing), with a large remote armor repairer so we can support each other a little bit. It's going great, until we encounter the local antipirate force en masse... Basically they got their own battleship squad to kill us. Things are going great, the ship they were shooting at (me) is tanking well with the remote reps on me. Boom goes one of their Abaddons. Things are going well. All of a sudden, here comes a nos typhoon, drains our cap dry and we end up losing. Fine, good fight.
The kicker, though, is that the typhoon was being piloted by a guy in an alliance that our alliance had a non-aggression pact with. Basically, we were blue. We'd seen him about a week earlier but we didn't pursue him for that reason. We get into a heated argument, in which his point is since we were pirating he can kill us, and NAPs don't matter outside of 0.0 anyway. Needless to say, that just angered me more, since our alliance was helping his alliance against their war with BoB. I don't want to say the names until our diplomats sort it out, but they are two really large alliances and we have had great relations. I pointed this out, and he blatantly denied we help his alliance (even though I've been on ops supporting their fleets, so I know he is wrong), and that we are pirates so it doesn't matter. Both alliances are NBSI.
Does he have any sort of basis whatsoever for his argument other than the fact that he thinks he can create his own political agreements out of nowhere and shoot blues? I am justified in being extremely angry and contacting diplomats to do something about it right?
I've never heard of blues shooting other blues like that and then saying they don't care about NAPs (he straight out said that). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- "We sincerely apologize for any inconvenience our piracy may have caused you, but, we are pirates and, sadly, this is our way. |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.06.23 09:30:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Akita T on 23/06/2007 09:36:53
Blue is blue, no matter where, no matter why, unless otherwise mutually agreed on and anounced beforehand to all involved parties. Yes, he's just making stuff up to suit his purpose.
So yeah, you should have every right to be angry and contact diplomatic channels. _ New char creation guide | Module/Rig stacknerfing explained |
Kylar Renpurs
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Posted - 2007.06.23 09:41:00 -
[3]
I got my first battleship ganked by blues,, chased up the heirachy of my alliance to try and get payment for at least the insurance (didnt have enough cash to refit the BS),,, they basically went limp and "didn't want to pressure our new allies",, who claimed it was an overview bug despite other members of the same alliance saying we were definately blue.
I left the alliance. Improve Market Competition! |
Jaikar Isillia
The Vinlanders Dark Matter Coalition
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Posted - 2007.06.23 09:44:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 23/06/2007 09:36:53
Blue is blue, no matter where, no matter why, unless otherwise mutually agreed on and anounced beforehand to all involved parties. Yes, he's just making stuff up to suit his purpose.
So yeah, you should have every right to be angry and contact diplomatic channels.
I agree with Akita. Friendly is friendly.
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Ling Xiao
Prism Project Technologies
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Posted - 2007.06.23 09:49:00 -
[5]
Blue is still blue in empire space. Saying it only matters in 0.0 is garbage. __________
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Adonis 4174
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Posted - 2007.06.23 10:07:00 -
[6]
Clearly he is adding clauses to your NAP which you did not agree to and thus the NAP needs renegotiating or cancelling.
If they can't keep from shooting at pirates then they shouldn't have NAPs with them. ----- Currently playing: Hello Kitty Online Character: Evil Kitty of DEATH |
Snake Jankins
Minmatar Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.06.23 10:22:00 -
[7]
Like you said, let the diplomats solve it. It's their job.
Personally I shoot blues nowhere, no matter what happens, except they attack me, my corp or my alliance first. This can sometimes lead to tricky situation, if you fly with someone else from another alliance and standings are not adjusted. But then standings either need to be adjusted, or you stop flying with them or everyone has to live with the risk that you are not going to shoot at blues.
It's kind of a golden rule for me. I think I have violated it only once because of stupidiy. Instead of removing friends from the overview by setting the filters, I selected the wrong tab and they showed up as neutrals. So I shot some KOS and LV for 2 days, was always told to stop firing and thought I was bugged. Then I noticed my mistake. But noone died and none of the LV and KoS took it too serious. ___________ 'Only ships can be assembled, this is a Frigate.' |
SFShootme
The Carebear Stare
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Posted - 2007.06.23 10:26:00 -
[8]
the are political issues that are not to be taken to the board, i guess.
- Tho shall give Life, for Life. |
Gikanzin
Minmatar White Nova Industries Gods of Night and Day
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Posted - 2007.06.23 10:37:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Gikanzin on 23/06/2007 10:38:22 If most alliance operate this way, like the pilot who flew the typhoon did then most alliance will be at war with each other as far as I can see. You know if you look at all the people corp info you are blue to or have some NAP agreement, you will always see that some corps within a alliance are either pirate or anti-pirates.
But you did what you had to do and that was setting the alliances to neutral. And for those people in the near future who think that you can break these NAP, just remember that NAP means Non Aggressive Pact.
Anyway good luck to your future gate camps and hope things like this don't happen too often.
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Fester Addams
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.06.23 11:06:00 -
[10]
This isnt really the place for a thread like this, it belongs in ither the crimes and punishments or the corporate and alliances forums.
That aside...
Being blue only meens your top brass has set their corp or him personally to a good standing, period.
It is a tool so that you can easilly see people that you are suposed to trust more than the average player.
NAP is a different matter, a NAP is a verbal agreement between you/your corp and another player/corp to not attack each other.
It is not a binding contract in EvE and in reality is a completely OOG concept, your corp in this case have agreed not to fight his corp.
If someone breaks this trust then in comes the diplomats.
The problem with such verbal non binding contracts is that they are open to interpretation and victim to failed communications as well as the fact that there may be multiple such agreements that are in conflict with each other.
Lets look at a few possibilities: The corp you have a NAP with may have a mutual protection agreement with your victims and thus there would be a NAP vs a MPA (dont know if this is a valid term :), naturally the MPA would outweigh the NAP and thus your diplomats may have to agree to revise the NAP or cancel it alltogether.
Another possibility is the the NAP was indeed set upp as a 0.0 NAP but the information of this has not trickled down to you... likewise the guy helping your foes may have gotten the wrong information on his end being informed it was a 0.0 NAP.
In the end it all comes down to the fact that its just a game and this thread is on the wrong page :)
I have myself been in both the situation I had to abort assisting friends and allies due to them turning out to be blue as well as being shot at by too triggerhappy blues. It happens, its no point making too much of a deal of it.
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Samaritan Azuma
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Posted - 2007.06.23 11:16:00 -
[11]
can you really expect sympathy from anyone over getting killed while pirating?
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Gutsani
Chaos Reborn
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Posted - 2007.06.23 11:35:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Samaritan Azuma can you really expect sympathy from anyone over getting killed while pirating?
yes, why not? its not like pirates are all ugly monsters eating babies
blue is blue .. ------------------------ Stop reading my siggy! |
Sinny II
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Posted - 2007.06.23 11:47:00 -
[13]
I don't know about anyone else but NAP to me does not denote blue, it denotes white unless in same fleet, then blue. A white can be a red if in a different oposing fleet.
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Hannobaal
Gallente Dragonfire Intergalactic Crusaders of Krom Dark Matter Coalition
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Posted - 2007.06.23 11:51:00 -
[14]
Indeed, blue is blue. It applies across the galaxy and has nothing to do with pirating or anything else of the sort. You don't attack friendlies. ------------------ "If you ever need anything please don't Hesitate to ask someone else first." |
Snake Jankins
Minmatar Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.06.23 11:58:00 -
[15]
@Fester Adams
I think 'free interpretation' leads to war and chaos. It's also a matter of pride. Blue-shooting-on-blue incidents can be difficult to sort out. You do that maybe once to a proud corp or alliance, but if it happens again they lose their patience.
In my eyes it leads to wars and chaos. I guarantee, if I'm being shot at, because someone didn't care much about standings, the diplomates are not able to sort it out and I'm shot at again, then my corp mates will fire at will next time they see someone from that corp, no matter what someone else says. ___________ 'Only ships can be assembled, this is a Frigate.' |
Epidemis
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Posted - 2007.06.23 12:31:00 -
[16]
Everything goes in the eve-online universe, you shouldn't come here crying.
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Sheriff Jones
Amarr Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.06.23 12:32:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Gutsani
Originally by: Samaritan Azuma can you really expect sympathy from anyone over getting killed while pirating?
yes, why not? its not like pirates are all ugly monsters eating babies
Just the good ones are
So yeah, i have a problem with being serious, but it's the almost smallest problem i have. |
Aaron
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Posted - 2007.06.23 12:34:00 -
[18]
the saying "no honor among thevies" comes to mind,
It sounds as if this guy is acting alone without the knowledge of his corp/alliance,
Ive recently had one of my corp members pwned by a blue, my response to this will be to deal with this renegade without contacting the ceo of his corp,
Me and this other guys ceo are have quite a bit of respect for eachother and theres no way he would have sanctioned this kind of behaviour.
Forget diplomacy in this situation no ones listening, you and your buddies should seek vengence upon him, take matters into your own hands maybe this will provoke a reaction from his diplomats.
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Kuseka Adama
Gallente WOLFPACK DELTA
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Posted - 2007.06.23 12:47:00 -
[19]
Honestly i cant say anything but: BOOOHOOOO wah wah wah.
Shut up and fight. You are the idiots harrassing other players and getting your rocks off on ****ing off other players. So now you get ****ed when someone does something about it?
As far as i am concerned anyone who naps with a pirate group needs their head examined. You people deserve no allies deserve no friends other than your fellow pirates It takes a special kind of player to be a pirate in this game outside of zero sec. The kind that liked to take a magnifying glass to an ant hill when they were 8. The kind that tripped the local geek in high school just to see the books fly all over the place.
Yeah this game allows it doesnt mean i have to like it.
Basis for his argument? You were pirating what more justification does he need?
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Agent Li
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Posted - 2007.06.23 14:38:00 -
[20]
Meh. Get a locator agent, find him, and pod him in return. ------------------
"Don't be afraid to take advantage of your enemy's weaknesses. Becasuse winning is everything after all." |
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Siege
Minmatar Siegecraft Bounty Hunting
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Posted - 2007.06.23 20:09:00 -
[21]
This is why setting people blue is both over-rated and counter productive.
Much better to just have neutrals and reds. Reds will shoot at you, neutrals probably will shoot at you, both are fair game. No need to worry about folks shooting at you who shouldn't be.
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Ciphero
The Wild Hunt FATAL Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.23 21:45:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Sheriff Jones
Originally by: Gutsani
Originally by: Samaritan Azuma can you really expect sympathy from anyone over getting killed while pirating?
yes, why not? its not like pirates are all ugly monsters eating babies
Just the good ones are
You are my new hero. |
Myonline
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Posted - 2007.06.23 22:11:00 -
[23]
IMO (yes i am not using my main but be sure i am not a noob)
Blue on Blue (BoB? ok jokes aside :D) is just not going to happen ANYWHERE, that simple.
Now with that said there are occations where you can be forced to act against a blue. Like what was said earlier, you are flying with someone from a different corp/alliance and run into a blue guy that starts attacking your gangmate. What to do? both are blue! In those situations you have to choose, usually I'd clearly state my intentions in local and/or any other channels in which the blue attacker is/may also in. Ex. "Stop you attack immediately or I will be forced to intervene against you. If you cease your attack now you can freely leave the field" (ofc you have to get your gangmate(s) to stop shooting as well).
Just my nickle
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maccrat
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Posted - 2007.06.23 22:37:00 -
[24]
. nvm :D
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Original Species
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Posted - 2007.06.23 22:55:00 -
[25]
Thats what happens when you make Goons blue...
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Lsf XXi
Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys
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Posted - 2007.06.23 23:08:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Original Species Thats what happens when you make Goons blue...
Yah like goons would care about piracy.
Quote: Lady Gadiva > lets hide our numbers and be ***
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Mr Friendly
That it Should Come to This
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Posted - 2007.06.23 23:09:00 -
[27]
NAP= no shooting at X unless shot by X first. Simple. Otherwise, what's the point? Obviously, a NAP can be negotiated to only apply in systems a though d, but its assumed role in Everywhere All the Time.
I don't see why there's any discussion needed about this.
Originally by: Sc0rpion I'm sorry, I could have sworn you just told them to stop patching the test server. Perhaps you could suggest another method of testing patches?
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Sindayn Itai
Black Lotus Heavy Industries Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2007.06.24 02:23:00 -
[28]
tbh NAP should break automatically if a person from same corp shoots or kills you.
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GO MaZ
Chaos Reborn
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Posted - 2007.06.24 03:01:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Kuseka Adama Honestly i cant say anything but: BOOOHOOOO wah wah wah.
Shut up and fight. You are the idiots harrassing other players and getting your rocks off on ****ing off other players. So now you get ****ed when someone does something about it?
As far as i am concerned anyone who naps with a pirate group needs their head examined. You people deserve no allies deserve no friends other than your fellow pirates It takes a special kind of player to be a pirate in this game outside of zero sec. The kind that liked to take a magnifying glass to an ant hill when they were 8. The kind that tripped the local geek in high school just to see the books fly all over the place.
Yeah this game allows it doesnt mean i have to like it.
Basis for his argument? You were pirating what more justification does he need?
Because being a pirate in a computer game makes you a bad person in real life
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Iyanah
Minmatar Mining Munitions and Mayhem R i s e
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Posted - 2007.06.24 03:12:00 -
[30]
blue is, as has been stated before, blue. that guy was a jerk, and deserves punnishment.
but, meh, these things happen. ========================================== Iy
please remember: I AM a sarcastic ******* and nothing i say has ever represented the thoughts or feelings of my corp, alliance, or anyone really. read |
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