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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 6 post(s) |
Saietor Blackgreen
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Posted - 2007.06.27 10:31:00 -
[1]
Well, there is a handful of threads on this, but I didnt find any younger than 2 years old.
I'm a first year player, so I cant really talk about corp management interface, but AFAIK it has got a bit of love lately. So did hangar and market interface, as well as some other stuff, and to my mind they are good enough.
The horrorshow which affects everyone from the start is ship interface, so lets whine on this a little?
Condition: Do NOT suggest anything, which will allow you to get info not available by game rules as by now. Lets just talk ergonomics here.
My points:
1) Indicators of effects on your ship needed. You can always tell that you are being shot, but the interface badly needs red lights that go on when: - Propulsion jammed - Warp jammed - Tracking jammed - Sensors jammed etc.
Some people suggest it should show also "by whom" and "how much", but that violates The Condition - you dont have indication of who's shooting at you, while captain DEFINITELY knows instantly if any of ship systems are going down. Several small simple VISIBLE indicators would make things better.
2) Topology of buttons needs love. Putting target management and module management in opposite sides of the screen is MEAN. I know that most people use shortcuts - I do - but still, it shouldnt be like this. Moving mouse from targets to Current Object buttons then to modules and back really hurts. Could they be aggregated somehow?
3) Modules assignment indicators need love. While there is an indication of modules engaged on each target, it doesnt distinguish between similar modules. Example - i have 6 turrets engaged on 3 different targets. I want to redirect all guns on to of the targets - how do I know which 4 need redirection? They all have the same icon. Maybe a number of slot can be introduced to those icons?
4) Module redirection dependent on module status - bad. Why do modules need to end their cycle to get redirected? I dont mean instant switching of effect of course, just targets. Example - Target is dead, i need to switch my guns to another target. Why do I need to wait till their cycle ends or till they reload? I could assign them to target and they'll start shooting when ready. This could be welcome.
5) The whole system of module activation/indication (down right) is poor, and got even worse with Heat introduction. Icons of modules dont just get colored when active, they glow, and some area glows around them. So, if I have one of 6 turrets not working, it is really hard to see. If I fight in a system with bright background it becomes ten times worse, because buttons are semi-transparent! Moreover, now we have Overload switches on the same icons, and all this rendered the modules cluster down into complete blinking mess. This needs rebuilding, and though the task is not that simple, I'm sure CCP has some decent interface specialists to do it right.
***
This is all I can remember for now, maybe more will come up. I realize that reworking interface might not be the most cost-effective resource spending for you guys (i mean Devs), but on the other hand these issues irritate me from my first day of playing, so they might be of a significant influence on decision of new players to stay or not to stay.
Any opinions on this? Maybe there is a thread on this already I couldnt find? Sorry then.
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Tobias Solem
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Posted - 2007.06.27 11:25:00 -
[2]
This is irrelevant compared to the lag issues of this game.
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Saietor Blackgreen
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Posted - 2007.06.27 11:35:00 -
[3]
I dont understand why you use the word "irrelevant". I didnt talk about lags at all. If you mean "negligible" or "unuimportant" then maybe, but.
Lag issues and poor interface are completely different, not directly interconnected things. All of my suggestions, except maybe #4 have nothing to do with lag issues, which are totally server-side. Corrections I offered are purely client-side. So what does lag have to do with these?
Also, lag issues are a pain for those involved in large fleet battles or Jita natives. Crappy interface buggers everyone out there.
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Crumplecorn
Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2007.06.27 11:39:00 -
[4]
The thing that bothers me most about the UI changes is they changed the speedo to one which jerks around like it's epileptic, rather than the old one which moved smoothly. That's just annoying. -
You keep using that word . . . I do not think it means what you think it means |
Saietor Blackgreen
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Posted - 2007.06.27 11:43:00 -
[5]
That too :) Though I like new solid one, smooth movement was better. Also, never understud why the numbers on it are so small.
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Lord Evangelian
Gallente LEAP Corp United Confederation of Corporations
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Posted - 2007.06.27 11:45:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Saietor Blackgreen Well, there is a handful of threads on this, but I didnt find any younger than 2 years old.
I'm a first year player, so I cant really talk about corp management interface, but AFAIK it has got a bit of love lately. So did hangar and market interface, as well as some other stuff, and to my mind they are good enough.
The horrorshow which affects everyone from the start is ship interface, so lets whine on this a little?
Condition: Do NOT suggest anything, which will allow you to get info not available by game rules as by now. Lets just talk ergonomics here.
My points:
1) Indicators of effects on your ship needed. You can always tell that you are being shot, but the interface badly needs red lights that go on when: - Propulsion jammed - Warp jammed - Tracking jammed - Sensors jammed etc.
Some people suggest it should show also "by whom" and "how much", but that violates The Condition - you dont have indication of who's shooting at you, while captain DEFINITELY knows instantly if any of ship systems are going down. Several small simple VISIBLE indicators would make things better.
2) Topology of buttons needs love. Putting target management and module management in opposite sides of the screen is MEAN. I know that most people use shortcuts - I do - but still, it shouldnt be like this. Moving mouse from targets to Current Object buttons then to modules and back really hurts. Could they be aggregated somehow?
3) Modules assignment indicators need love. While there is an indication of modules engaged on each target, it doesnt distinguish between similar modules. Example - i have 6 turrets engaged on 3 different targets. I want to redirect all guns on to of the targets - how do I know which 4 need redirection? They all have the same icon. Maybe a number of slot can be introduced to those icons?
4) Module redirection dependent on module status - bad. Why do modules need to end their cycle to get redirected? I dont mean instant switching of effect of course, just targets. Example - Target is dead, i need to switch my guns to another target. Why do I need to wait till their cycle ends or till they reload? I could assign them to target and they'll start shooting when ready. This could be welcome.
5) The whole system of module activation/indication (down right) is poor, and got even worse with Heat introduction. Icons of modules dont just get colored when active, they glow, and some area glows around them. So, if I have one of 6 turrets not working, it is really hard to see. If I fight in a system with bright background it becomes ten times worse, because buttons are semi-transparent! Moreover, now we have Overload switches on the same icons, and all this rendered the modules cluster down into complete blinking mess. This needs rebuilding, and though the task is not that simple, I'm sure CCP has some decent interface specialists to do it right.
***
This is all I can remember for now, maybe more will come up. I realize that reworking interface might not be the most cost-effective resource spending for you guys (i mean Devs), but on the other hand these issues irritate me from my first day of playing, so they might be of a significant influence on decision of new players to stay or not to stay.
Any opinions on this? Maybe there is a thread on this already I couldnt find? Sorry then.
I agree whole heartedly with what you suggested, i have thought about that for a while whilst playing. They have added alot of content to the game that needed to be done in REV II and its a great improvement but more can still be done.
Originally by: Tobias Solem This is irrelevant compared to the lag issues of this game.
Read the post, your comment is irelavent this is about teh interface not lag....READ!
-----
One day I'll show you...and then you will bow down... |
Keira Fordring
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2007.06.27 11:58:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Keira Fordring on 27/06/2007 11:59:14
Quote:
1) Indicators of effects on your ship needed. You can always tell that you are being shot, but the interface badly needs red lights that go on when: - Propulsion jammed - Warp jammed - Tracking jammed - Sensors jammed etc.
Some people suggest it should show also "by whom" and "how much", but that violates The Condition - you dont have indication of who's shooting at you, while captain DEFINITELY knows instantly if any of ship systems are going down. Several small simple VISIBLE indicators would make things better.
Actually there is an indicator if you have "Damage messages on" checked in the 'Generic' options. Problem with this is during heavy battles it spams your screen way too much, has potential to generate excessive log files and doesn't stay on screen.
Quote:
2) Topology of buttons needs love. Putting target management and module management in opposite sides of the screen is MEAN. I know that most people use shortcuts - I do - but still, it shouldnt be like this. Moving mouse from targets to Current Object buttons then to modules and back really hurts. Could they be aggregated somehow?
Agree
Quote:
3) Modules assignment indicators need love. While there is an indication of modules engaged on each target, it doesnt distinguish between similar modules. Example - i have 6 turrets engaged on 3 different targets. I want to redirect all guns on to of the targets - how do I know which 4 need redirection? They all have the same icon. Maybe a number of slot can be introduced to those icons?
Agree. I suggested something like this many moons ago.
Quote:
4) Module redirection dependent on module status - bad. Why do modules need to end their cycle to get redirected? I dont mean instant switching of effect of course, just targets. Example - Target is dead, i need to switch my guns to another target. Why do I need to wait till their cycle ends or till they reload? I could assign them to target and they'll start shooting when ready. This could be welcome.
Would be nice but the current system isn't too bad.
Quote:
5) The whole system of module activation/indication (down right) is poor, and got even worse with Heat introduction. Icons of modules dont just get colored when active, they glow, and some area glows around them. So, if I have one of 6 turrets not working, it is really hard to see. If I fight in a system with bright background it becomes ten times worse, because buttons are semi-transparent! Moreover, now we have Overload switches on the same icons, and all this rendered the modules cluster down into complete blinking mess. This needs rebuilding, and though the task is not that simple, I'm sure CCP has some decent interface specialists to do it right.
Agree. Interface seems to have degraded a bit in Rev. 2
Quote:
Any opinions on this? Maybe there is a thread on this already I couldnt find? Sorry then.
Nice, constructive post. It's rare to see people point out what they don't like and offer solutions at the same time.
My advice: post this in the 'Features and Ideas' forum, that's where suggestions really belong
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Neko Sornan
eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.
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Posted - 2007.06.27 12:01:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Tobias Solem This is irrelevant compared to the lag issues of this game.
You're talking about the lagging speed-o-meter on the UI since Rev II? Yes, that's also an issue ... |
Siigari Kitawa
Gallente The Aduro Protocol
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Posted - 2007.06.27 12:02:00 -
[9]
PLEASE DO NOT QUOTE THE ORIGINAL POST IN IT'S ENTIRETY.
It is HIGHLY annoying, it is generally forum taboo, and it adds TONS of extra needless scrollage. _________________ Burn. |
Excesse
Chaos Reborn
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Posted - 2007.06.27 12:03:00 -
[10]
Firstly, it should be noted that CCP has different employees for different tasks. Chances are that their graphic designers have little knowledge of netcode optimisation to reduce lag - likewise the code monkeys would probably not be able to produce an interface to the same standard as the graphic designers. Saying "OMG devote 100% to fixing lag" is... just... stupid.
Anyway:
1. Agree, this would be a nice feature to have, as the current event reporting text boxes are utterly useless. 2. This is the most important point and I would hope that CCP are at least considering revamping the layout of their UI based on four years of gameplay experience. My own major gripes with the UI mostly revolve around how awkward it is to fight fleet battles when your ship status is at the bottom of the screen, and the target list is in the top right corner... 3. Would be nice, can't say I've ever had this problem though - focus fire! I can see this perhaps being important for EWAR pilots though. 4. I actually agree with the current system for this - there's currently a degree of commitment involved when you activate your modules, which makes you think a little more before you pull the trigger. 5. The glowing rings are a problem against bright backgrounds, definitely. This will hopefully be reworked as there have been many complaints - if only to replace the transparent "aura" with solid ring. [.CR.]
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Lord Berk
Amarr Ministry of War
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Posted - 2007.06.27 12:21:00 -
[11]
There's some nice suggestions in there. Good thinking OP.
Kill it! It's killing me. |
Saietor Blackgreen
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Posted - 2007.06.27 12:50:00 -
[12]
Just to add - thank you so far for comments. Another one I forgot is
6) Lagometer lots of people are talking about, like Everquest featured IIRC. Thats more to lag problem, but still - indicator of response times and other stuff would be welcome feature.
Someone said "concentrate fire!" - yes, in PvP. Do u suggest the same with sniper Hurricane meeting 6 webbing inties in a mission? :)
Someone (think same person) said that waiting for cycle before switching targets adds to the thinking before shooting. Well, I see your point, but most PvPers will laugh. As well as people running missions, actually. At least, some kind of warnings may be introduced, or feature may be disabled and enabled through settings.
Anyone else frustrated with anything?
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JeanClaude DuSoir
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Posted - 2007.06.27 13:00:00 -
[13]
There are some really good things here!! (1) and (2) are by far my favorite. Also add, Don't show heat interface if you don't have skill and Right-click on target to have drones engage that target..
For purposes of this thread, we won't worry about the drones actually making it to the target.
And to the complaint that this does nothing to solve lag problems, be it known that software designers and network engineers are not the same as UI designers. -- No siggy.
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Winterblink
Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.06.27 13:06:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Saietor Blackgreen 1) Indicators of effects on your ship needed. You can always tell that you are being shot, but the interface badly needs red lights that go on when: - Propulsion jammed - Warp jammed - Tracking jammed - Sensors jammed etc.
Some people suggest it should show also "by whom" and "how much", but that violates The Condition - you dont have indication of who's shooting at you, while captain DEFINITELY knows instantly if any of ship systems are going down. Several small simple VISIBLE indicators would make things better.
I've been going on about this particular issue for coming on two years. A single status area with simple icons is almost a must at this point. Too many times I get my good old friend the "miscellaneous" indicator, telling me something's being done to some part of my ship. I suppose in the heat of battle I could open up my ship's attributes to see what's being done, but I've got enough to do.
"How much" would probably be too excessive, but "by whom" is pretty important in my humble opinion. Hovering on the icon should indicate the person(s) responsible for the status on your ship. This works both for and against you, depending on your role in a fight.
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Saietor Blackgreen
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Posted - 2007.06.27 13:13:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Winterblink
"How much" would probably be too excessive, but "by whom" is pretty important in my humble opinion. Hovering on the icon should indicate the person(s) responsible for the status on your ship. This works both for and against you, depending on your role in a fight.
You are actually right - that "Blood Diviner Miscelanneous..." message that appears below does tell you the source of jamming, so indicators CAN contain the note of source. Good one!
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Pilok Shitfly
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.06.27 13:32:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Saietor Blackgreen Edited by: Saietor Blackgreen on 27/06/2007 13:05:49 Well, there is a handful of threads on this, but I didnt find any younger than 2 years old.
I'm a first year player, so I cant really talk about corp management interface, but AFAIK it has got a bit of love lately. So did hangar and market interface, as well as some other stuff, and to my mind they are good enough.
The horrorshow which affects everyone from the start is ship interface, so lets whine on this a little?
Condition: Do NOT suggest anything, which will allow you to get info not available by game rules as by now. Lets just talk ergonomics here.
My points:
1) Indicators of effects on your ship needed. You can always tell that you are being shot, but the interface badly needs red lights that go on when: - Propulsion jammed - Warp jammed - Tracking jammed - Sensors jammed etc.
Some people suggest it should show also "by whom" and "how much", but that violates The Condition - you dont have indication of who's shooting at you, while captain DEFINITELY knows instantly if any of ship systems are going down. Several small simple VISIBLE indicators would make things better.
2) Topology of buttons needs love. Putting target management and module management in opposite sides of the screen is MEAN. I know that most people use shortcuts - I do - but still, it shouldnt be like this. Moving mouse from targets to Current Object buttons then to modules and back really hurts. Could they be aggregated somehow?
3) Modules assignment indicators need love. While there is an indication of modules engaged on each target, it doesnt distinguish between similar modules. Example - i have 6 turrets engaged on 3 different targets. I want to redirect all guns on to of the targets - how do I know which 4 need redirection? They all have the same icon. Maybe a number of slot can be introduced to those icons?
4) Module redirection dependent on module status - bad. Why do modules need to end their cycle to get redirected? I dont mean instant switching of effect of course, just targets. Example - Target is dead, i need to switch my guns to another target. Why do I need to wait till their cycle ends or till they reload? I could assign them to target and they'll start shooting when ready. This could be welcome.
5) The whole system of module activation/indication (down right) is poor, and got even worse with Heat introduction. Icons of modules dont just get colored when active, they glow, and some area glows around them. So, if I have one of 6 turrets not working, it is really hard to see. If I fight in a system with bright background it becomes ten times worse, because buttons are semi-transparent! Moreover, now we have Overload switches on the same icons, and all this rendered the modules cluster down into complete blinking mess. This needs rebuilding, and though the task is not that simple, I'm sure CCP has some decent interface specialists to do it right.
***
This is all I can remember for now, maybe more will come up. I realize that reworking interface might not be the most cost-effective resource spending for you guys (i mean Devs), but on the other hand these issues irritate me from my first day of playing, so they might be of a significant influence on decision of new players to stay or not to stay.
Any opinions on this? Maybe there is a thread on this already I couldnt find? Sorry then.
UPD:
6) No Heat controls shown if Thermodynamics skill not learned (by JeanClaude) - arguably necessary, but good idea.
7) "Engage with drones" on right click on target (by JeanClaude)
Nice post. I've seen people ask for some indicator for beeing warp jammed, a long time ago, so i doubt they will do something about it. I'm one of the few who don't use shortcuts so it would be nice to group all my guns and shoot them all at once with one click.
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Winterblink
Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.06.27 13:36:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Saietor Blackgreen 3) Modules assignment indicators need love. While there is an indication of modules engaged on each target, it doesnt distinguish between similar modules. Example - i have 6 turrets engaged on 3 different targets. I want to redirect all guns on to of the targets - how do I know which 4 need redirection? They all have the same icon. Maybe a number of slot can be introduced to those icons?
If I'm understanding you correctly, maybe this will help.
You know that you can click on those icons to shut off the module, right? Left-click on the gun icons next to the targets you don't want to be firing at and the module will deactivate. Then just send all that metal at the target you want to die.
I use this all the time. You still don't get an indication of which *specific* gun you'll be deactivating, but it lets you do things like redirect fire quickly.
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El'essar Viocragh
Minmatar FSK23
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Posted - 2007.06.27 13:37:00 -
[18]
Edited by: El''essar Viocragh on 27/06/2007 13:36:22
Originally by: Saietor Blackgreen 3) Modules assignment indicators need love. While there is an indication of modules engaged on each target, it doesnt distinguish between similar modules. Example - i have 6 turrets engaged on 3 different targets. I want to redirect all guns on to of the targets - how do I know which 4 need redirection? They all have the same icon. Maybe a number of slot can be introduced to those icons?
Click on the icons right of the target at the top of your screen (the smallish indicators). That *drums* deactivates that specific effect/turret/ewar. Then reassign the now red/inactive modules.
-- [17:47] <Mephysto> its dead, jim |
Winterblink
Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.06.27 13:40:00 -
[19]
And just in regards to the whole heat management UI issue, I posted this in the RevII feedback thread about my own ideas of how it could be reworked.
Post #646: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=539694&page=22#646
Might make things a bit more sensible than the way they are now.
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Sc0rpion
Archer Daniels Midland
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Posted - 2007.06.27 13:49:00 -
[20]
Everyone agrees the interface is an out-dated resource hogging pile of steaming turd, but it's clearly more important that modules that nobody complained about get completely unneeded tweeks.
Because let's face it - writing a UI is much harder than changing a database entry and calling it a patch.
The true secret to enjoying life is to live it dangerously. -Friedrich Nietzsche
Killmails are for pooftas. |
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Angelus Custos
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2007.06.27 13:52:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Tobias Solem This is irrelevant compared to the lag issues of this game.
When will people understand that all EVE employees are not generalists working on whatever is needed. They have job descriptions, and different skills. Being the worlds best interface designer is not necessarily a merit when working with servers.
As for the suggested solutions i agree. Perhaps CCP could start a suggestions thread where people can post pictures and or function flowcharts on how they would want the interface to be designed. It could be good inspiration all round.
If the interface is better designed the decresed ammount of repeated commands hampering the servers down might even decrease lag (press F1... wtf, F1, F1, F1, F1!... there we go).
Not that i dislike the present interface that much (except the drone part), but it could be improved.
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cheru
Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.06.27 13:57:00 -
[22]
Very good suggestions.
Unfortunately they are a waste of your time. Wishes re UI and its customisation have gone unheeded by CCP for 2+ years.
................................................. been there done that |
Frug
Zenithal Harvest
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Posted - 2007.06.27 14:09:00 -
[23]
Originally by: cheru Very good suggestions.
Unfortunately they are a waste of your time. Wishes re UI and its customisation have gone unheeded by CCP for 2+ years.
It's true. Even minor suggestions don't seem like they're ever gonna happen. They don't think the glowing green module buttons is a problem.
The best proposition was made a few months ago by someone with screenshots of module timers which would give you of an idea when the module's cycle will be over. That would be perfect. But no. Never happen.
- - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Hey, my marbles |
Winterblink
Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.06.27 14:14:00 -
[24]
To be honest, I think this is an excellent time to suggest things since the GUI code is getting the attention it needs for the new clients. Saying nothing pretty much guarantees your opinion will get ignored.
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Sc0rpion
Archer Daniels Midland
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Posted - 2007.06.27 14:18:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Winterblink To be honest, I think this is an excellent time to suggest things since the GUI code is getting the attention it needs for the new clients. Saying nothing pretty much guarantees your opinion will get ignored.
What's the hurry? With Eve's patch schedule, the new UI won't be hitting Sisi until something like October 2009.
The true secret to enjoying life is to live it dangerously. -Friedrich Nietzsche
Killmails are for pooftas. |
Atrelle
Viziam
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Posted - 2007.06.27 14:19:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa PLEASE DO NOT QUOTE THE ORIGINAL POST IN IT'S ENTIRETY.
It is HIGHLY annoying, it is generally forum taboo, and it adds TONS of extra needless scrollage.
As does large text.
But nice of you to support the OP by showing how little niggly things (quoting the OP in its entirety and an inefficent UI) effect us in big ways.
/signed to the OP btw
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Alora Venoda
Caldari GalTech
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Posted - 2007.06.27 14:55:00 -
[27]
Currently, there is ZERO indicator for when you are being warp-scrambled. But most other forms of EW are indicated. Since warp-scram is more imporantant than anything, it really sucks when you don't realise until you actually try to warp. At least they added an audio message instead of just a popup message that gets eaten by all the other combat message spam. But it would still be FAR more effective to simply change the color of your speedometer to red or yellow or something to show that you simply cannot enguage warp at that time.
On the issue of weapon cycles, I often anticipate the death of the current target and manually deactivate my weapons so that right as the target pops, I can start shooting next target immediately. This also helps save ammo, especially missiles. But it is guesswork, which can be wrong and actually reduce combat efficiency.
~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~ Take away the risk and it would make flying around in space utterly pointless.
Take away the flying around part and you make EVE into a space themed spreadsheet application. |
Empyre
Domestic Reform
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Posted - 2007.06.27 15:03:00 -
[28]
i've already missed the two little indicators that tell you how much powergrid and cpu your ship is using/has left on several occasions, forcing me to dock to see how much grid i have left. =(
where did those go anyway?
People argue when their personal views are at odds
--
Removed Rauths' message stating they removed my empty image tag. -Empyre |
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CCP Tuxford
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Posted - 2007.06.27 15:34:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Empyre i've already missed the two little indicators that tell you how much powergrid and cpu your ship is using/has left on several occasions, forcing me to dock to see how much grid i have left. =(
where did those go anyway?
You can always press ctrl-shift-f to get the fitting screen up.
As for general UI things, then all good points. Personally I don't think the damage messages aren't that useful as they usually get lost in a spam of messages and single damage message means nothing as you're much more interested in damage over time. _______________ |
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Winterblink
Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.06.27 15:43:00 -
[30]
Originally by: CCP Tuxford As for general UI things, then all good points. Personally I don't think the damage messages aren't that useful as they usually get lost in a spam of messages and single damage message means nothing as you're much more interested in damage over time.
It's not so much the damage messages that folks have issues with, it's the status ones for when you're affected by a status of some kind, such as being scrambled or jammed. Having all the statuses in a simple UI element of some kind would be extremely handy.
That way you can see whether you're being warp scrambled, or see how much logistic assistance you're getting and who's giving it to you. Etc.
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