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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 6 post(s) |
Maglorre
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Posted - 2007.06.28 05:50:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Wrayeth ...you'll check the log...
I've tried to do this but even that is quite difficult when there is a lot of damage messages coming in, quite apart from the death inducing lag that opening the log window creates for me it's difficult to find the right messages.
I'm seriously considering writing a program to monitor the log file externally and give me a little display of recent damage dealt in real time (dual head FTW!).
Ideally this could be added to the game client. Overlay a "last damage" amount onto the weapons. More clutter I guess but terribly useful information that is already provided (in a very poor way).
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Acacia Everto
State War Academy
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Posted - 2007.06.28 06:32:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Maglorre
Originally by: Wrayeth ...you'll check the log...
I've tried to do this but even that is quite difficult when there is a lot of damage messages coming in, quite apart from the death inducing lag that opening the log window creates for me it's difficult to find the right messages.
I'm seriously considering writing a program to monitor the log file externally and give me a little display of recent damage dealt in real time (dual head FTW!).
Ideally this could be added to the game client. Overlay a "last damage" amount onto the weapons. More clutter I guess but terribly useful information that is already provided (in a very poor way).
That's not a bad idea, or at least some basic overlay of scramming and such, just so you know you've been scrammed during the fight. I think I'll end up doing this on my laptop...could be very simple to access a share and continually grep a logfile for scrams, and if so alert me with an audible and visual warning. It's an awful way to do things, but if CCP won't give us the tools, why not make a tool that'll at least do a decent portion of what we want.
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Lastdon
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Posted - 2007.06.28 07:06:00 -
[63]
My suggestion to CCP is to take a smart business point of view from another company.
What I mean even though people get mad when you use this companys name is look what blizz did to WOW. When that game first came out the UI sucked big time. So what they did is created a easy add ons folder for players to make their own UI changes as long as they didn't fall under botting. A majority of the Interface in that game wasn't developed by blizz but some college kid who thought this would be a good idea for the interface.
For example CT Mod, titan panel ex.... It saves you guys money and time, some kid will develop it for you then you can just implement it to the game later on. It just requires you to put some aggrement in the terms.
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Mnengli Noiliffe
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Posted - 2007.06.28 07:11:00 -
[64]
Yeah the UI. It's fugliest thing I saw in computer games tbh.
1. Please make it possible to reload all turrets with specific ammo type. Currently there is no point in reloading because when you finish clicking every turret choosing new ammo, the target is already dead (or your ship). So you either choose range before the fight or become highly ineffective as you are switching ammo instead of fighting. This also makes laser fast crystal switch advantage null and void. 2. Please increase the number of F- keys usable. Why can we only use F1-F8 and not F9-F12? Either that of fix the method a keypress is captured. For example if I want to press ALT+F1 I have to hold down ALT, then hold down F1 and then release F1, however if I release ALT before the game acts on ALT+F1 combo, then the game will think I only pressed F1. This means that any non-high slot mods are very hard to activate using keyboard (because when there are lots of objects, game lags too much and kaypresses are only notified in few seconds. and my computer is P4/3GHz/1GB RAM) To work this around I could drag more mods to high row but I can't drag more than 8 mods there.
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Alex Tremayne
Lyrus Associates Betrayal Under Mayhem
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Posted - 2007.06.28 09:16:00 -
[65]
The UI has been desperately in need of a complete overhaul for some time. Many good points have been made here.
My personal pet hates are the drone UI having to share space with the overview and the gang UI and the lack of indications for ECM effects. Seriously CCP: little blinking lights for each ECM effect, it can't be that difficult.
Lyrus Associates' Diplomat Of Last Resort |
torswin
Caldari Capital Productions Inc.
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Posted - 2007.06.28 10:09:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Alex Tremayne Seriously CCP: little blinking lights for each ECM effect, it can't be that difficult.
the problem is that then some colour blind or epeleptic will whine about it causing scheisures or something... there's always someone who will whine about any changes ccp do :( ---
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Alex Tremayne
Lyrus Associates Betrayal Under Mayhem
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Posted - 2007.06.28 10:44:00 -
[67]
Originally by: torswin
Originally by: Alex Tremayne Seriously CCP: little blinking lights for each ECM effect, it can't be that difficult.
the problem is that then some colour blind or epeleptic will whine about it causing scheisures or something... there's always someone who will whine about any changes ccp do :(
So have them be lights that don't blink. Or little ticky boxes that get ticked when the appropriate bad stuff is happening. I don't care. I just want some sort of indicator.
Anything is better than nothing.
Lyrus Associates' Diplomat Of Last Resort |
Anehra
X-Fire
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Posted - 2007.06.28 11:07:00 -
[68]
Nice post, supported.
Also; very annoying to have the heat buttons so close and easily accidenly activated when not wanted to.
Happened to my other character a couple of days ago, he was fighting and wanted to activate heat on a module and noticed it accidently went on when he was activating alot of modules a few sec earlier. (I'm mentioning that as using the right-click option to 'lock' the heat activation would not be a solution as I *wanted* to use it a few secs after I had accidently activated it. It needs to be separated and less risky to accidently activate - while still having the option to access it fast in the 'heat' *cough* of battle).
- Revelation II - "WE'RE SORRY, SOMETHING HAPPENED" |
Tareen Kashaar
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2007.06.28 11:12:00 -
[69]
Originally by: torswin
Originally by: Alex Tremayne Seriously CCP: little blinking lights for each ECM effect, it can't be that difficult.
the problem is that then some colour blind or epeleptic will whine about it causing scheisures or something... there's always someone who will whine about any changes ccp do :(
Colorblindness handicaps can always be circumvented in UI design by not just using color as a contrast, but brightness in addition. For example, inactive icons would be dark and grey, active ones would be bright and flashing red.
I really do wonder though, why can't there just be a customizable UI? Doesn't even have to go as far as including all the different tools and windows, but all the other stuff that is shown in space, like: Overview, Targets, Modules, Ship Status, Solar system info. Wouldn't it be possible to have all that information, as well as information on what is on the same grid (and warpable objects off grid) as pollable data sets in the client, that any custom UI plugin could query and display in whatever way they prefer?
Another "feature", that really obstructs usability in my humble opinion, is the automatic focus on the last active chat window whenever you start to type anything. In station, I can understand this, but in space, it has to go. I don't want to have to press Ctrl+Alt+Shift+[key] for keyboard shortcuts, I want to be able to hit one key and be done with it. Chat could still be activated by pressing the Enter key first, like it is done in many other games.
Example of this: Active targets. Why not let us switch between our currently locked targets with the 1-0 key, and those two next to the zero for those few people with Multitasking 5?
Why not let us use Page-up and Page-down to browse the overview, and give us hotkeys to activate the various available actions?
Why not give us one-click action buttons for drone commands? Let us bind a key to certain drone groups on the fly, and dispatch or recall them with just two buttons! Active drone groups could still be switched through the right click menu.
Why not let us group our modules and activate them all with a single keystroke? Fully customizable through the right click menu, individual modules could be assigned to one of the F1-F12 keys - I doubt anyone will ever need more than 12 module groups. Group the visually - give us for ex. a tab around them that we can right click to batch change ammo, reload, etc.
Why not give us a simple clock-like timer overlay on our modules, for easy visibility of how long their current cycle? This is so obvious, easy and handy that I really don't understand why it isn't in.
Why not give us little EW indicators next to the ships on our overview? Let us see at a glance for example which of the 20 npc frigates is the one with the scrambler, or in denser fleet situations, how deep in **** we really are.
I'm working on a little UI concept incorporating these concepts and will post it on the Features and Ideas as soon as it's ready... I just hope the dev team realizes the importance of the UI. I have my hopes up for the new graphics engine, but I fear I might get disappointed if I don't at least take some action myself --- WTS: Forum Signatures, price negotiable. Evemail me!
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Kagura Nikon
Minmatar Guardians of the Dawn Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.06.28 11:18:00 -
[70]
well damage messages have one usefullness.. adn its a very important one: now if you are hitting, missing or hitting barely... Could be cahnged by a small percentage number under the gun rack showing the % hit chance on taget beign shot at.
If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough |
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CCP Tuxford
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Posted - 2007.06.28 11:33:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Tareen Kashaar *loads of suggestions*
I like a lot of those suggestions. I've always dreamed of a sort of a "combat mode" which would disable chat and let me use any button I damn well pleased.
So to sum up problems people have with UI
Hard to see module activation with red blinky stuff around modules for damage and module in overloaded state and what not lack of keyboard shortcuts, we have a lot but more is well... more Ship status. That means seeing if you're scrambled, webbed, damaged, dampened and so on and who's doing it to you
I'd like to see drone manager thingie moved from the overview as well. _______________ |
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Siigari Kitawa
Gallente The Aduro Protocol
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Posted - 2007.06.28 11:35:00 -
[72]
Edited by: Siigari Kitawa on 28/06/2007 11:34:52 Tuxford, think outside the module icon.
Maybe make a single LINE on one side of the icon that shows heat. The line will fill up as the module overheats, instead of having it going around the module iteslf.
Like this:
|O _________________ Burn. |
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CCP Tuxford
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Posted - 2007.06.28 11:37:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa Edited by: Siigari Kitawa on 28/06/2007 11:34:52 Tuxford, think outside the module icon.
Maybe make a single LINE on one side of the icon that shows heat. The line will fill up as the module overheats, instead of having it going around the module iteslf.
Like this:
|O
ah well the heat is in the round thing above the capacitor. What you see around the modules is the damage state of each module. That needs to be linked to the module. _______________ |
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Tolomea
Gallente 5th Front enterprises New Eve Order
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Posted - 2007.06.28 11:39:00 -
[74]
can I request 2 more?
sweep timers on all the modules, by sweep timer I mean that lil clock effect that lets you know how long till the next cycle
also could the drones please get the reduced overview entry format that gang members get and could we please see the health of drones in the bay
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CCP Tuxford
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Posted - 2007.06.28 11:42:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Tolomea can I request 2 more?
sweep timers on all the modules, by sweep timer I mean that lil clock effect that lets you know how long till the next cycle
I'd like that as well
Originally by: Tolomea
also could the drones please get the reduced overview entry format that gang members get and could we please see the health of drones in the bay
Seems reasonable. Tbh I'd just like a whole new drone management window with drone settings and such.
Remember this is not me promising anything, I'm not a UI designer or a programmer but I can at least present your demands and lobby for them internally _______________ |
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Tareen Kashaar
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2007.06.28 11:42:00 -
[76]
Originally by: CCP Tuxford
Originally by: Tareen Kashaar *loads of suggestions*
I like a lot of those suggestions. I've always dreamed of a sort of a "combat mode" which would disable chat and let me use any button I damn well pleased.
Yeah, that's exactly what I'm talking about. Mouse navigation is all nice and well, but there's two different "layers" if you so will to a UI, and the mouse is only one of them: It's for easy access, look for function, find function, click. It may be accessible, but it's not efficient. That's what keyboard navigation is for: Longer learning time required to memorize all the shortcuts, but in exchange, you get instant access to the functions you want to activate.
I feel that the EVE UI covers the accessible layer very well, but it is damn inefficient for "power users", which pretty much everyone mutates to after a few months of playing.
I hope you'll consider some of those suggestions for when you guys start working on the new UI post-graphics update --- WTS: Forum Signatures, price negotiable. Evemail me!
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Tareen Kashaar
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2007.06.28 11:44:00 -
[77]
Originally by: CCP Tuxford
Originally by: Tolomea can I request 2 more?
sweep timers on all the modules, by sweep timer I mean that lil clock effect that lets you know how long till the next cycle
I'd like that as well
The little link I posted above has that too, I just didn't find the right word for it, not a native english speaker here --- WTS: Forum Signatures, price negotiable. Evemail me!
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Tolomea
Gallente 5th Front enterprises New Eve Order
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Posted - 2007.06.28 11:47:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Tareen Kashaar
The little link I posted above has that too, I just didn't find the right word for it, not a native english speaker here
That is some profoundly cool photoshopage and some sweet idea's I'm going to go back and read your other posts
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Splagada
Minmatar Tides of Silence Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.28 11:50:00 -
[79]
Please Tuxford consider a Fleet fix
just on the client side wouldnt it be better using This idea(fleet display)? ------
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Dan Flack
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Posted - 2007.06.28 11:52:00 -
[80]
As long as they don't change the font!!!11
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Tolomea
Gallente 5th Front enterprises New Eve Order
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Posted - 2007.06.28 11:54:00 -
[81]
Originally by: CCP Tuxford
Remember this is not me promising anything, I'm not a UI designer or a programmer but I can at least present your demands and lobby for them internally
I think most everybody here understands that.
I also think I probably speak for most of us when I say that you've done a lot just by letting us know you are listening and understanding, and I/we appreciate that.
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Tolomea
Gallente 5th Front enterprises New Eve Order
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Posted - 2007.06.28 11:57:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Tolomea
sweep timers on all the modules, by sweep timer I mean that lil clock effect that lets you know how long till the next cycle
Also this could potentially tie in well with heat, I'm not sure what heat currently does to the cycle in progress, but if I could look at the timer on my LAR, realize that it just isn't going to get there in time and then use heat to kick it along... that would be cool.
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Tareen Kashaar
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2007.06.28 11:59:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Tolomea
Originally by: CCP Tuxford
Remember this is not me promising anything, I'm not a UI designer or a programmer but I can at least present your demands and lobby for them internally
I think most everybody here understands that.
I also think I probably speak for most of us when I say that you've done a lot just by letting us know you are listening and understanding, and I/we appreciate that.
Amen :) --- WTS: Forum Signatures, price negotiable. Evemail me!
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Speed Burnout
Evolution Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.06.28 11:59:00 -
[84]
Originally by: CCP Tuxford
ah well the heat is in the round thing above the capacitor. What you see around the modules is the damage state of each module. That needs to be linked to the module.
Can we have a setting to turn this off manually? Like the way we can hide passive modules. -------------------------------------------- We've secretly replaced their dilithium crystals with new Folgers crystals. Now let's watch them go to warp! |
Kharadran Sullath
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.06.28 12:05:00 -
[85]
The Heat interface really needs a fix. It's so easily misclicked when you just want to turn on/off the mods. ------ --Don't get saucy with me Bernaise!-- |
Anehra
X-Fire
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Posted - 2007.06.28 12:05:00 -
[86]
Originally by: CCP Tuxford
Originally by: Tareen Kashaar *loads of suggestions*
I like a lot of those suggestions. I've always dreamed of a sort of a "combat mode" which would disable chat and let me use any button I damn well pleased.
So to sum up problems people have with UI
Hard to see module activation with red blinky stuff around modules for damage and module in overloaded state and what not lack of keyboard shortcuts, we have a lot but more is well... more Ship status. That means seeing if you're scrambled, webbed, damaged, dampened and so on and who's doing it to you
I'd like to see drone manager thingie moved from the overview as well.
Quoted for truth. Both Tareens suggestion (I like the image provided too btw, except that imho the 'bar' on top is way oversized. Minimalistic ftw. Small icons, small text, small everything, more space!), as well as Tuxfords replies.
The UI as it is is already too blurry with at least 2 chatboxes (local, maximized from top to buttom - there's no option really, for a 0.0 roaming pvper), scanner (always up and somewhat bigger than default to list everything), the default UI, the overview..
..and add in a separate drone interface (much needed), and you basicly won't get any nice view of the fighting or space or roids at all.
Tragic.
Give an option to resize things to smaller than needed: * local! needs to be 'thinner' from left/right * overview could use some smaller textsize for those that want it, I'm more interested in 'tag' 'distance' and 'velocity' than everything else - and yet I need to see the name of things. Bleh! * default UI, hiding buttons is nice but they're still 'there' if you know what I mean, if I jump into other ships I might need it - so i can't use 'their space' for other things like the scanner or a potential drone UI. Let us move buttons and display around, unlock it - and resize it, I want it half the current size, or smaller. * scanner needs to be able to resize left-right just as local, thinner please, it takes up too much space. * colours, let us just change all colours as we want, icons on the HUD, borders, hell even the colour 'theme' when logging in hasn't even got the option to chose RMR-winered (the best colour so far, easy visibility and pleasant for the eye). It's help colourblind people as well as making buttons easier to see when active/not active too. Everything should be possible to re-colour, buttons, hud, speedometer, everything.
Things that are good today is the transparent windows. It helps to give visibility but it has turned more necessary than 'nice' to be honest.
- Revelation II - "WE'RE SORRY, SOMETHING HAPPENED" |
Felysta Sandorn
Caldari System-Lords
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Posted - 2007.06.28 12:16:00 -
[87]
Originally by: CCP Tuxford Ship status. That means seeing if you're scrambled, webbed, damaged, dampened and so on and who's doing it to you
EW TRACKING WINDOW!
Pilot >>> Timer >>> EW Type Felysta Sandorn >>> 3.2s >>> Warp Disruption CCP Tuxford >>> 7.5s >>> Tracking Disruption CCP Tuxford >>> 7.1s >>> Tracking Disruption
You get the picture... Have them all in a little window that you can move about, with those nice little timer boxes...
Latest Video, Click Here!
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Tolomea
Gallente 5th Front enterprises New Eve Order
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Posted - 2007.06.28 12:21:00 -
[88]
Originally by: CCP Tuxford
Originally by: Tolomea
also could the drones please get the reduced overview entry format that gang members get and could we please see the health of drones in the bay
Seems reasonable. Tbh I'd just like a whole new drone management window with drone settings and such.
So would I but there's some hope that simpler = sooner, for example if a drone interface over haul is going to take 6 months to get here, then slip it another month or 2 and give us some small fixes now.
The two I listed there seem simple (I appreciate that there is often more to these things than is apparent at face value).
A third simple seeming one that would be quite nice is to decouple the expanded state of the bay folders and the in space folders. Generally I want to see all the individual details for all the drones in space and only the group names for those in the bay. Unfortunately currently the expanded/collapsed state of a given drone group are somewhat tied together.
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Tareen Kashaar
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2007.06.28 13:01:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Anehra I like the image provided too btw, except that imho the 'bar' on top is way oversized. Minimalistic ftw. Small icons, small text, small everything, more space!
Agreed, it's still a work in progress concept anyway --- WTS: Forum Signatures, price negotiable. Evemail me!
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TA6YPET
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Posted - 2007.06.28 13:15:00 -
[90]
The 2 things that kill me alive.
Firstly, all this green blinking and glowing is abominable. You can't control what's going on half of the time, as you have to stare into the module icon for about a second to actually understand if it's freaking working or not. And when you are fighting a nos ship all your modules switch off at random.
The second thing is drones, and esp. the right click menu that is the only means to control them.
I have thought a little, and that's what I suggest.
1. Focus on "At one glance" perception. The state of each module should be clearly indicated 100% of the time. Now it's only about 50% when the glowing is bright.
2. More info. Cycle time absolutely must be displayed. Probably a bar indicator under each module.
I'd also like the damage messages (numbers only, probably of different colour for wrecking and poor hits) to appear above of each gun icon, missle launchers must also display the ammount of missles in flight.
I'd also like to have the indication of ew modules applied to my ship and to my targets by my gangmates.
3. customisable group buttons.
I think it's time to separate ship slots and inspace interface icons. icons must be customisable, for example I'd like to set all guns on 1 interface icon (and keyboard shortcut), active tank modules on the second icon, speed mod on the third and so on.
All Icons should have "autorepeat" and "repeat when possible" triggers.
Overload buttons should be also customisable (you set the modules to be overloaded) and with 2 options - auto disable on critical (25% of any module hp) and disable on module destruction (0% of overloaded module hp)
4. drones.
I thought of an icon for drones just like any ship module. On activation drones engage current target, on deactivation they disengage and orbit. If a drone is destroyed in "engage" phase and a new drone is lauched, it must engage automatically.
and the current drone interface must be simplified and will be used only to launch and recall drones. First, it needs a big red "Dock drones" button with a keyboard shortcut. Then, all drone group folders must be eliminated, and all drones in dronebay stacked by type. There must not be suchlike
warrior I x5 warrior I warrior I
picture, it's plain stupid. Just "warrior I x7" followed by 2 buttons, "launch 1" and "launch all" for each drone type.
"launch damaged drones" option will be needed to repair drones in space, but in all other cases damaged drones must be set to the end of the launch queue.
The second part of drone interface will display the drones in action,with health bars like that of fleet members, and drone damage messages like I proposed to guns and launchers.
5. Visual effects. Guys, seriously, interface must be informative, and only then cute. If it's not cute, we'll live with it. It's the "informative" part that matters to 80% of eve players. Leave visual effects to ship guns.
Thanks for attention, hope my ideas will be of some use.
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