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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Selinate
553
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Posted - 2012.01.06 16:35:00 -
[1] - Quote
For many years, we have been relying on third party programs to form fits for our ship and get basic info from the prospective fit with our character info added to it. These third party developers have done a fairly outstanding job.
However, why should there have to be third party developers for something already so integral for a vast number of players to the game play of Eve?
I propose that CCP should make something with the functionality of EFT in the Eve client. I know, we already have EFT so we shouldn't need it in client, right? Well, this will make rebalances of game play mechanics quicker to update, hence giving us a more accurate of our fit's overall performance.
I would also like something fun like snowball guns on my ship that I can use in high sec for lulz. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4291
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Posted - 2012.01.06 16:40:00 -
[2] - Quote
Selinate wrote:However, why should there have to be third party developers for something already so integral for a vast number of players to the game play of Eve? Same reason as for all third-party developers: because CCP won't make anything that's even remotely as functional and because EFT / Pyfa already exists GÇö robbing those guys of their work is just mean. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
Professor Alphane
Alphane Research Co-operative
198
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Posted - 2012.01.06 16:40:00 -
[3] - Quote
+2
1. Agree totally, why should we have to rely on 3rd party support for ship fitting, it's an intragel part of the game. 3rd parties may not always be able to keep up with development (there was a really good alternative to EFT when I used to play but it wasn't updated). Also in CCP's quest to improve new player experience this would be perfect, why should someone unaware of MMO's know to look for 3rd party tools to have even the most basic functionality for the rather complex system of shipfitting.
2. 'Paintball' rigs would be fun, wargames in highsec with no concord :)
YOU MUST THINK FIRST.... |
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ISD Alassien
Community Communications Liaisons
0
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Posted - 2012.01.06 16:41:00 -
[4] - Quote
I think this would be a great idea is it would all be intregated within EVE - although we shouldn't take away credit from the Third Party devs that have put into over the years , but I would love to see this ingame. ISD Alassien Lieutenant Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Project Wildfire
113
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Posted - 2012.01.06 16:43:00 -
[5] - Quote
Selinate wrote: However, why should there have to be third party developers for something already so integral for a vast number of players to the game play of Eve?
Yeah I've always thought it would be good if we didn't have to break immersion by using google and other third party apps to play eve. |
Professor Alphane
Alphane Research Co-operative
198
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Posted - 2012.01.06 16:44:00 -
[6] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Selinate wrote:However, why should there have to be third party developers for something already so integral for a vast number of players to the game play of Eve? Same reason as for all third-party developers: because CCP won't make anything that's even remotely as functional and because EFT / Pyfa already exists GÇö robbing those guys of their work is just mean.
You know maybe CCP could come up with something even better given there resources.
Not sure where your coming from with 'robbing guys of there work', these a hobby programmers, should CCP see sense I'm sure there's lots of other tools/apps/addons they could spend there time creating. In fact maybe they will manage to create something new and wonderful like they did the first time round.
YOU MUST THINK FIRST.... |
David Grogan
The Motley Crew Reborn
295
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Posted - 2012.01.06 16:46:00 -
[7] - Quote
why make software at a cost to CCP when the software is already there, tried n tested, and is free to use?
it would make no financial sense for CCP to divert a team of programmers away from getting dust514 finished and making Eve awesome again just to make an app that already exists. Everytime you buy something that says "made in china" you are helping the rising unemployment in your own country unless you are from china, Buy locally produced goods and help create more jobs. |
Lady Spank
GET OUT NASTY FACE
838
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Posted - 2012.01.06 16:48:00 -
[8] - Quote
By that logic they should also provide macro ratters and miners because they have become 'integral' to certain players activities in game. (a¦á_a¦â) ~ http://getoutnastyface.blogspot.com/ ~ (a¦á_a¦â) -áGÖÑ New Years Resolution ~ Cease thy Smacktalk GÖÑ |
Cyzlaki
Interstellar eXodus BricK sQuAD.
170
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Posted - 2012.01.06 16:50:00 -
[9] - Quote
David Grogan wrote:it would make no financial sense for CCP to divert a team of programmers away from getting dust514 finished and making Eve awesome again just to make an app that already exists. They did it with the Agent Finder, why not EFT? |
John Caesse
Madeix Industries
108
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Posted - 2012.01.06 16:53:00 -
[10] - Quote
Yes, CCP should use finite resources to build things that already exist. That sounds like a great way to improve the game (especially if by "improve" you mean "spend needless money and bring the company one step closer to insolvency") |
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4291
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Posted - 2012.01.06 16:54:00 -
[11] - Quote
Cyzlaki wrote:David Grogan wrote:it would make no financial sense for CCP to divert a team of programmers away from getting dust514 finished and making Eve awesome again just to make an app that already exists. They did it with the Agent Finder, why not EFT? Because the agent finder is just a database query. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
Doc Fury
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
143
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Posted - 2012.01.06 16:59:00 -
[12] - Quote
Thank Deus this is not another thread whining about WIS!
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'no.' |
Marduk Nibiru
Physical Chaos Skunk Works.
44
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Posted - 2012.01.06 17:03:00 -
[13] - Quote
I don't agree. Software is my field and as an architect, developer, etc...I know that the cheapest way to get the job done is to let someone else do it. This is why instead of suffering deeply from the "Not invented here" syndrome, I make use of as many dependable 3rd party libraries that I can find. If they're free all the better.
This allows me to get more done and faster. I can concentrate on adding features, securing my code, TESTING IT, and otherwise improving the program rather than reinventing a bunch of wheels.
If CCP were to do as you propose then somewhere in Iceland there would be a conversation something like so:
"The users want a fitting tool embedded in the program."
"Isn't there already a fitting tool?"
"Yes, but they want something like EFT."
"Why don't they use EFT?"
"I'm not really sure, it works quite well...better than our code in many respects...maybe they don't like to tab out of the game?"
"Well, OK...lets do it."
"Well, we already have a pretty packed schedule..."
"Put the Faction War and hisec wardec fixes back on the back burner...we'll do them in a future release."
"Roger."
The third party programs enhance the game without forcing CCP to neglect the more important stuff. If you really want it to be IN the game, turn it into a website that works with the in-game browser. |
Professor Alphane
Alphane Research Co-operative
198
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Posted - 2012.01.06 17:09:00 -
[14] - Quote
I don't think all you guys can put your noob first day in EVE heads on and see how important fit testing functionality is to EVE.
Just another example of CCP's lacksidasical attitude to development. IMO
They want the noob experience to be more streamlined, they should at least be good enough to provide basic funtionality in there game without having to really on 3rd party developments that may well end up depreciated if said developers situatoin/ focus should change.
YOU MUST THINK FIRST.... |
Famble
Three's a Crowd
243
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Posted - 2012.01.06 17:13:00 -
[15] - Quote
Can anything really be "fairly outstanding"? I mean, it's either outstanding or it's not.
...
I'll see myself out.
If anyone ever looks at you and says, "Hold my beer, watch this,"-á you're probably going to want to pay attention. |
Sieges
University of Caille Gallente Federation
11
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Posted - 2012.01.06 17:14:00 -
[16] - Quote
Marduk Nibiru wrote:The third party programs enhance the game without forcing CCP to neglect the more important stuff. If you really want it to be IN the game, turn it into a website that works with the in-game browser. +1
This would be awesome. Especially if it stored our fits server-side.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4291
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Posted - 2012.01.06 17:17:00 -
[17] - Quote
Professor Alphane wrote:They want the noob experience to be more streamlined, they should at least be good enough to provide basic funtionality in there game without having to really on 3rd party developments that may well end up depreciated if said developers situatoin/ focus should change. GǪand should that ever happen, there might be a case for CCP picking up the slack rather than expend development resources on duplicating (or triplicating) existing software.
The complexities of ship fitting (to the point where EFT is needed) lies somewhat beyond the n00b stage, and either way, the trick to fitting a ship has nothing to do with a fitting tool such as EFT, but rather with a number of strategical choices and trade-offs. They already need to go to the forums or the wiki or their corp to learn those. That might be something that could be worth bringing more to the fore-front, though. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
MNagy
Yo-Mama Quixotic Hegemony
71
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Posted - 2012.01.06 17:20:00 -
[18] - Quote
Since the apps are created already - I would rather CCP concentrate their time into fixing broken things or adding new things.
CCP gives you access to your API key so you can go out and develop your own apps to help fitting/learning/manage eve.
I 'agree' with you as to why it isnt in eve, but sometimes there just isnt time for things like that.
So for that reason - I am content with teh API key and alternate google functions to do the work while CCP concentrates on the big picture. |
Florestan Bronstein
United Highsec Front The 99 Percent
362
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Posted - 2012.01.06 17:21:00 -
[19] - Quote
If CCP were clever they'd look to license Eos (the pyfa engine) for use in the EVE client and limit themselves to building an in-game frontend for it.
In reality they'll probably flesh out the engine you see in the fitting screen every day (re-calculates stats when you fit modules or hover over a module) until it is fancy enough to power a fully-featured fitting tool. |
Professor Alphane
Alphane Research Co-operative
198
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Posted - 2012.01.06 17:22:00 -
[20] - Quote
Why not do both together, Perhaps a website as someone suggested that has EFT fucionality and some 'suggested' fits for various frigs/dessies. Aurora could link you there and you could pick up the basics.
/edit couple of posts in the time I was writting, I was specifically replying to what Tippia said.
YOU MUST THINK FIRST.... |
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Florestan Bronstein
United Highsec Front The 99 Percent
362
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Posted - 2012.01.06 17:26:00 -
[21] - Quote
Professor Alphane wrote:Why not do both together, Perhaps a website as someone suggested that has EFT fucionality and some 'suggested' fits for various frigs/dessies. Aurora could link you there and you could pick up the basics. no suggested fits (and imo way too complex/confusing for a newbies but that goes for EFT, too) but otherwise pretty close to your idea:
http://aurora.evefit.org/ |
Marduk Nibiru
Physical Chaos Skunk Works.
46
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Posted - 2012.01.06 17:28:00 -
[22] - Quote
Professor Alphane wrote:I don't think all you guys can put your noob first day in EVE heads on and see how important fit testing functionality is to EVE.
Just another example of CCP's lacksidasical attitude to development. IMO
They want the noob experience to be more streamlined, they should at least be good enough to provide basic funtionality in there game without having to really on 3rd party developments that may well end up depreciated if said developers situatoin/ focus should change.
There's another good reason to leave it out. Fit management is not a newb activity but a complex one that requires a fairly sophisticated understanding of game mechanics. If CCP threw EFT at newbies it would make the game harder to learn, not easier.
Currently they can access the fit screen and learn to put a ship together. They can get fits from corp mates, etc... When they are ready, they can download EFT and play around with their own ideas. |
Race Drones
13th Squadron E C L I P S E
7
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Posted - 2012.01.06 17:34:00 -
[23] - Quote
ISD Alassien wrote:I think this would be a great idea is it would all be intregated within EVE - although we shouldn't take away credit from the Third Party devs that have put into over the years , but I would love to see this ingame. [SARCASM] Yes, put inside the game an Office Suite, Radio FM, GPU and GPU analyzer software, Network Analyzer, Tetris, SSH Terminal, a Virtual PC with EVE Operating System, CYGWIN, Memory Analyzer, Disk Defragmenter ... and all the Harry Potter's movies in DivX or XDiv format. [/SARCASM]
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Professor Alphane
Alphane Research Co-operative
198
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Posted - 2012.01.06 17:38:00 -
[24] - Quote
Marduk Nibiru wrote:Fit management is not a newb activity but a complex one that requires a fairly sophisticated understanding of game mechanics.
It's both and an excellent oppurtunity to introduce people to what each aspect of the ship stats actually mean.
Of course it could be 'noobified' ie choose a ship and only modules that actually fit appear in your options making it less confusing than EFT.
YOU MUST THINK FIRST.... |
Selinate
555
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Posted - 2012.01.06 19:38:00 -
[25] - Quote
Race Drones wrote:ISD Alassien wrote:I think this would be a great idea is it would all be intregated within EVE - although we shouldn't take away credit from the Third Party devs that have put into over the years , but I would love to see this ingame. [SARCASM]Yes, put inside the game an Office Suite, Radio FM, GPU and GPU analyzer software, Network Analyzer, Tetris, SSH Terminal, a Virtual PC with EVE Operating System, CYGWIN, Memory Analyzer, Disk Defragmenter ... and all the Harry Potter's movies in DivX or XDiv format. [/SARCASM]
EFT >> (is much greater than) all of that stuff you mentioned.
If this is the worst troll I get in this thread, I think it's going to be a good day... |
Selinate
555
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Posted - 2012.01.06 19:39:00 -
[26] - Quote
Lady Spank wrote:By that logic they should also provide macro ratters and miners because they have become 'integral' to certain players activities in game.
Ok, how about "integral and not harmful to the game" |
Selinate
555
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Posted - 2012.01.06 19:40:00 -
[27] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Selinate wrote:However, why should there have to be third party developers for something already so integral for a vast number of players to the game play of Eve? Same reason as for all third-party developers: because CCP won't make anything that's even remotely as functional and because EFT / Pyfa already exists GÇö robbing those guys of their work is just mean.
If they wanted to concentrate on FIS so much more, then something like this would be a pretty great improvement, and I'm sure that if they put their mind to it, they can come up with something just as functional.
Also, this is Eve and you support suicide ganking. Robbing those guys of their work is just mean :P |
Selinate
555
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Posted - 2012.01.06 19:43:00 -
[28] - Quote
David Grogan wrote:why make software at a cost to CCP when the software is already there, tried n tested, and is free to use?
it would make no financial sense for CCP to divert a team of programmers away from getting dust514 finished and making Eve awesome again just to make an app that already exists.
A) because it will be in game so I won't have to alt-tab.
B) It is tried and tested, but unfortunately it doesn't update immediately or easily. Just having something in the client that immediately pulls the newest information from the modules would be great.
C) It doesn't break immersion.
D) For the noobs who hear (one of the first things they might hear when they get into Eve, btw) "Get EFT to fit your ship", it helps keep them from downloading EFT from an unreliable source and possibly download malicious software.
Also, I really doubt it would take a team of programmers to do this... maybe one, two at the most could easily program something to do this. |
Selinate
555
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Posted - 2012.01.06 19:50:00 -
[29] - Quote
MNagy wrote:Since the apps are created already - I would rather CCP concentrate their time into fixing broken things or adding new things.
CCP gives you access to your API key so you can go out and develop your own apps to help fitting/learning/manage eve.
I 'agree' with you as to why it isnt in eve, but sometimes there just isnt time for things like that.
So for that reason - I am content with teh API key and alternate google functions to do the work while CCP concentrates on the big picture.
The API key has many more uses than just for third party fitting program purposes, so it wouldn't make it obsolete or anything like that.
Also, while I agree there are many broken parts of Eve that need fixing, or parts of Eve that just desperately DESPERATELY (desperately) need touching up, this would simply be a nice smaller addition to the game to make it so that new pilots don't end up having to go look for third party programs right off the bat in order to fit ships without having to buy all the modules. It would just streamline things a bit more.
In addition to this, as a side request, I would very much like it if this portion of Eve had a function where it could simply buy all the modules of said fit off the market at the lowest price, and fit it to your ship. Little things like this seem insignificant, but it goes a long way in games with more *stuff* like Eve has in making it a more popular, streamlined game while still retaining the complex nature of it.
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Selinate
555
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Posted - 2012.01.06 19:51:00 -
[30] - Quote
John Caesse wrote:Yes, CCP should use finite resources to build things that already exist. That sounds like a great way to improve the game (especially if by "improve" you mean "spend needless money and bring the company one step closer to insolvency")
lol I'll say it again, if this is the worst kind of troll I'm getting in this thread, I think I'm doing pretty well. |
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