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AegriSomnia Caldari Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.06.28 23:06:00 - [61] Ummmm, I might get in trouble for saying this but..... Its not about BoBs numbers or their resources or all that other crap that I just read. They really are a very good group of pilots that fly very good ships. This is why I fly against them, and love to hate them. I learn something EVERY time I take the field. I do think that there are some very smart FC's that have figured out this desync thing and are using it. Its just smart. I just hope CCP fixes it soon. Originally by: grayson 34 Thank you for yall's advice, and a special thanks to AegriSomnia for reminding me that there are still ***holes in the world.
Nevada Tan	Posted - 2007.06.28 23:13:00 - [62] OTOH, it didn't do them much good tonight. ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ I have done a bad thing.
Lord WarATron Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.06.28 23:34:00 - [63] Edited by: Lord WarATron on 28/06/2007 23:41:04 Originally by: Occara Edited by: Occara on 28/06/2007 21:46:11 Edited by: Occara on 28/06/2007 21:43:50 Originally by: Lord WarATron Quite frankly, yes. 30 fully t2 fitted BS's in the hands of skilled pvpers, can kill 60 t1 crappy fitted bs's piloted by people who are not experienced in fleet warfare quite easaly, and probebly without loss. You see, the flaw in your argument is that you assume all players are equally skilled amoung all alliances. This is not the case at all. Over the past year or two, many badly managed alliances came into the game, who basically were, for lack of a better term, operating with a ISK farmer mentality. These alliances eventually lose their pvpers who like to band with likeminded people. See where I am going with this? yes, you are back at the old "we are just inherently better" line that has been used throughout history and proven wrong each time. your particular slant on it is that inherently superior folk are attracted to your group. this isn't a new angle, and ends up being the exact same (though often it is the one i've seen used in an mmo). Better players pick class x! more hardcore players pick side y! Seen it all before, and it's never been true then, and i'd imagine it's not now. Therefore, according to your argument, there is no point to competitive sports, since all humans have equal amounts of ability among them? Are you saying there is no point in the Olympics because everyone has equal amounts? You are aware that some countries are better than others because of training, determination etc etc? Or are you trying to do a Ad Hominim attack, since your argument is invalid? What is your point by the way? That we have some kind of seceret lag button that we press? -- Billion Isk Mission
Ernest Graefenberg Minmatar Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.28 23:49:00 - [64] Originally by: Lord WarATron Edited by: Lord WarATron on 28/06/2007 15:25:22 Originally by: Van Burren 'cause it is very strange that lag/desync helps BoBs a lot and spoils the game for others. For others - it'll save them from extinction = leaving the game. ? Your turn. Sorry, Lag/Desync/Computer Meltdown/Server Issues effect everyone. It is very strange that only our enemies blame their losses on it. Actually, the complete opposite is true with the current situation. It's completely dependent on who loads grid when, and any set of pilots (obviously regardless of allegiance) loading at the impacted moment will be desynched and unable to do anything. To make an example, in a tiny fight (20 people per side roughly), this happened. The opposition warping into the grid was desynched and unable to do anything, and so was everyone jumping in at that very moment. However, anyone jumping in ~15-20 seconds later was perfectly fine. In that case, this resulted in 2 of us just shooting at immobile targets popping them one by one while the rest of the gang relogged to get control of their client back. Defensive kneejerk reactions are cute, and do illustrate the point that you're a douchebag, but they're also completely false. The mechanics of the current problem seem to almost guarantee that one side will be much, much more dramatically impacted.
Angelus Damelon Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.06.28 23:56:00 - [65] Alt Trolls: raaaaaaaargh BoB hax exploits :tinfoil: BoB Trolls: We're just better than you and clearly the fact that many people from multiple alliances (including our own) have pointed out that Rev 2 has resulted in a new type of desync problem is not worth discussing at all because we are omnipotence itself and you should all move back to Jita, noobs. Everyone else: Shut up shut up shut up you're both stupid shut up.
Occara	Posted - 2007.06.28 23:57:00 - [66] Originally by: Lord WarATron Edited by: Lord WarATron on 28/06/2007 23:41:04 Originally by: Occara Edited by: Occara on 28/06/2007 21:46:11 Edited by: Occara on 28/06/2007 21:43:50 Originally by: Lord WarATron Quite frankly, yes. 30 fully t2 fitted BS's in the hands of skilled pvpers, can kill 60 t1 crappy fitted bs's piloted by people who are not experienced in fleet warfare quite easaly, and probebly without loss. You see, the flaw in your argument is that you assume all players are equally skilled amoung all alliances. This is not the case at all. Over the past year or two, many badly managed alliances came into the game, who basically were, for lack of a better term, operating with a ISK farmer mentality. These alliances eventually lose their pvpers who like to band with likeminded people. See where I am going with this? yes, you are back at the old "we are just inherently better" line that has been used throughout history and proven wrong each time. your particular slant on it is that inherently superior folk are attracted to your group. this isn't a new angle, and ends up being the exact same (though often it is the one i've seen used in an mmo). Better players pick class x! more hardcore players pick side y! Seen it all before, and it's never been true then, and i'd imagine it's not now. Therefore, according to your argument, there is no point to competitive sports, since all humans have equal amounts of ability among them? Are you saying there is no point in the Olympics because everyone has equal amounts? You are aware that some countries are better than others because of training, determination etc etc? Or are you trying to do a Ad Hominim attack, since your argument is invalid? What is your point by the way? That we have some kind of seceret lag button that we press? competitive sports involve teams of relatively small numbers of players (and even then skill levels end up being pretty similar apart from a few outliers). olympic events are competitions of individuals. Why do you keep trying to draw parallels to small groups? we aren't even talking within the same order of magnitude for numbers. possibly not even within two orders of magnitude. i never claimed a small group might be better at something than another small group, but when you end up with numbers in the thousands and especially when you are all pulling from the same pool of people, any difference in this magical "skill" are merely figments of your imagination.
Black Jumper Altera Odyssea Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.06.29 00:09:00 - [67] Originally by: Lickity Split Its amazing people never want to accept the fact maybe they are at fault. How many bob do you see in jita? Last time i checked it had alot of lag. I guess we did that also huh? Face the facts, WE ARE BETTER THAN YOU! Its not lag, its not CCP, its not exploits. Its skills, tactics, determination. Ahem
Bizz Lizz	Posted - 2007.06.29 00:13:00 - [68] Originally by: Angelus Damelon Everyone else: Shut up shut up shut up you're both stupid shut up. And I thought you are nice guys.
Selene Le'Cotiere Amarr Dark Oracle Enterprises	Posted - 2007.06.29 00:24:00 - [69] Is it me.. or do these types of threads seem to center around BoB vs (who ever)? Generally when I see other battle Reports with different alliances, people are like "Good fight, well done" and manage to shake hands afterwards.
Angelus Damelon Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.06.29 00:32:00 - [70] Originally by: Bizz Lizz Originally by: Angelus Damelon Everyone else: Shut up shut up shut up you're both stupid shut up. And I thought you are nice guys. I am!

Philounet Altera Odyssea Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.06.29 00:41:00 - [71] Originally by: Black Jumper Originally by: Lickity Split Its amazing people never want to accept the fact maybe they are at fault. How many bob do you see in jita? Last time i checked it had alot of lag. I guess we did that also huh? Face the facts, WE ARE BETTER THAN YOU! Its not lag, its not CCP, its not exploits. Its skills, tactics, determination. Ahem Look at the Stats from Lickity on BOB KB and wonder where that arrogance comes from ...I just hope for him that it's not his main
Lord WarATron Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.06.29 10:23:00 - [72] Originally by: Occara Edited by: Occara on 29/06/2007 00:05:56 Originally by: Lord WarATron Therefore, according to your argument, there is no point to competitive sports, since all humans have equal amounts of ability among them? Are you saying there is no point in the Olympics because everyone has equal amounts? You are aware that some countries are better than others because of training, determination etc etc? Or are you trying to do a Ad Hominim attack, since your argument is invalid? What is your point by the way? That we have some kind of seceret lag button that we press? competitive sports involve teams of relatively small numbers of players (and even then skill levels end up being pretty similar apart from a few outliers). olympic events are competitions of individuals. Why do you keep trying to draw parallels to small groups? we aren't even talking within the same order of magnitude for numbers. possibly not even within two orders of magnitude. i never claimed a small group can't be better at something than another small group, but when you end up with numbers in the thousands and especially when you are all pulling from the same pool of people, any difference in this magical "skill" are merely figments of your imagination. And thats your problem. You Assume that all corps/alliances in eve take random people on board, therefore skill is a random factor. This is not the case with most PvP aliances - they recruit on proven ability, thus they cherry pick the people they want. Also your statement ignores the leadership factor, since if the other side had impressive leadership, I would be currently mining in Jita and not on the doorstep of the enemy's home space. -- Billion Isk Mission
Tassadar Beta Amarr BIG BIG is Beautiful	Posted - 2007.06.29 11:32:00 - [73] The more pilots you put in one area the more problems will become apparent, if you suddenly put a bunch of pilots in one area the problems will become apparent quicker its simply a fact. BoB are good pilots and no doubt so are some of the people flying against them. BoB aren't invincible but all the people who seem to come to the forums whining about it give others that impression. Just get on with it. And to the OP if you can manage your proposal you'll have managed what no-one else in the history of eve has managed, the entire eve universe at peace albeit for a small period. I think that shows how hard it would be to get even one side to agree to it.
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.06.29 11:44:00 - [74] Originally by: Lord WarATron Originally by: Occara Edited by: Occara on 29/06/2007 00:05:56 Originally by: Lord WarATron Therefore, according to your argument, there is no point to competitive sports, since all humans have equal amounts of ability among them? Are you saying there is no point in the Olympics because everyone has equal amounts? You are aware that some countries are better than others because of training, determination etc etc? Or are you trying to do a Ad Hominim attack, since your argument is invalid? What is your point by the way? That we have some kind of seceret lag button that we press? competitive sports involve teams of relatively small numbers of players (and even then skill levels end up being pretty similar apart from a few outliers). olympic events are competitions of individuals. Why do you keep trying to draw parallels to small groups? we aren't even talking within the same order of magnitude for numbers. possibly not even within two orders of magnitude. i never claimed a small group can't be better at something than another small group, but when you end up with numbers in the thousands and especially when you are all pulling from the same pool of people, any difference in this magical "skill" are merely figments of your imagination. And thats your problem. You Assume that all corps/alliances in eve take random people on board, therefore skill is a random factor. This is not the case with most PvP aliances - they recruit on proven ability, thus they cherry pick the people they want. Also your statement ignores the leadership factor, since if the other side had impressive leadership, I would be currently mining in Jita and not on the doorstep of the enemy's home space. Of course skill factors into it. But how do you explain that one day you annihilate your enemy with a 20/1 KD ratio and today you lose a battle? Out of shape, all of BoB turned into noobs for a day? I think the explanation is a bit of both. Yes BoB has experienced players and a lot of discipline. Some smaller factions in Eve can match them in that aspect and even surpass them, but at the size BoB is, there are few if any potential equals (only RA/AAA come to mind). Secondly, BoB has a lot of experience in dealing with laggy situations, fighting under less than optimal conditions. They know when to expect it, they know what to do when it happens. Opponents, not used to fighting in this kind of environment, do not. Even small, highly experienced units, who man for man could very well be better than BoB, could struggle due to not being used to fighting in big gangs, with lots of lag. But aside from the skill aspects, lag can play a big role. Sometimes both sides get hit by it, sometimes neither. But sometimes just 1 side gets hammered by it. Since BoB knows when to expect it and how to handle it, its mostly not them that gets hammered. But when they do, it turns out just about as ugly for BoB as it does for anyone else. ------------------------------------------------ Murphy's Golden Rule: Whoever has the gold, makes the rules.
Kagura Nikon Minmatar Guardians of the Dawn Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.06.29 11:44:00 - [75] Originally by: violator2k5 Originally by: Kagura Nikon Originally by: Lickity Split Its amazing people never want to accept the fact maybe they are at fault. How many bob do you see in jita? Last time i checked it had alot of lag. I guess we did that also huh? Face the facts, WE ARE BETTER THAN YOU! Its not lag, its not CCP, its not exploits. Its skills, tactics, determination. But with this attitude you prove you are inferior human beings. Congrats an inferior human being would be one that never admits their wrong or learn by their mistakes. he may be egotistical but arent we all in some way and i do believe he is right. at the end of this war i believe the only ones who'll be standing on the battlefield in the south, once its all done will be bob... others may disagree but all i can say is we'll see granted that is another kind of inferior human being. But egocentric rampagind and smacktalkign are hardly considered high in the list of human virtues. If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Kayl Breinhar Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.06.29 12:06:00 - [76] Edited by: Kayl Breinhar on 29/06/2007 12:06:33 Were I a betting man I'd say the OP is a BoB alt/pet/supporter/fanboy with a very limited knowledge of 0.0 thinking he's somehow being demoralizing and clever. Reason? A typical Goon alt would have way more posts than this guy.
Mrs Tradeline	Posted - 2007.06.29 12:08:00 - [77] Originally by: Kayl Breinhar I'd say the OP is a BoB alt/pet/supporter/fanboy I'd say you sir aren't very smart, are you?
Kayl Breinhar Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.06.29 12:11:00 - [78] Edited by: Kayl Breinhar on 29/06/2007 12:10:36 Originally by: Mrs Tradeline Originally by: Kayl Breinhar I'd say the OP is a BoB alt/pet/supporter/fanboy I'd say you sir aren't very smart, are you? ...like uncorped alts haven't posted similar idiotic attempts a demoralizing in the past to influence public opinion.
Occara	Posted - 2007.06.29 13:39:00 - [79] Originally by: Malachon Draco And thats your problem. You Assume that all corps/alliances in eve take random people on board, therefore skill is a random factor. This is not the case with most PvP aliances - they recruit on proven ability, thus they cherry pick the people they want. Also your statement ignores the leadership factor, since if the other side had impressive leadership, I would be currently mining in Jita and not on the doorstep of the enemy's home space. Of course skill factors into it. But how do you explain that one day you annihilate your enemy with a 20/1 KD ratio and today you lose a battle? Out of shape, all of BoB turned into noobs for a day? I think the explanation is a bit of both. Yes BoB has experienced players and a lot of discipline. Some smaller factions in Eve can match them in that aspect and even surpass them, but at the size BoB is, there are few if any potential equals (only RA/AAA come to mind). Secondly, BoB has a lot of experience in dealing with laggy situations, fighting under less than optimal conditions. They know when to expect it, they know what to do when it happens. Opponents, not used to fighting in this kind of environment, do not. Even small, highly experienced units, who man for man could very well be better than BoB, could struggle due to not being used to fighting in big gangs, with lots of lag. But aside from the skill aspects, lag can play a big role. Sometimes both sides get hit by it, sometimes neither. But sometimes just 1 side gets hammered by it. Since BoB knows when to expect it and how to handle it, its mostly not them that gets hammered. But when they do, it turns out just about as ugly for BoB as it does for anyone else. You sir, are getting the idea. i'll even throw in that a well-followed experienced leader can turn the tide in situations, but in that case there is no extra magical skill to the unwashed masses he leads. they are more or less riding his coattails.


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