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Flinx Evenstar
Minmatar Spartan Industries Cruel Intentions
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Posted - 2007.06.28 19:28:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Arenis Xemdal To summarize, James 315 is trying to rationalize his own failures as a Fleet Commander and the subsequent ASCN 'turkeyshoot' that followed in the wake of his gross incompetence by linking lag to lag. Bravo James 315, your particular brand of logic is a monument to the hopes and dreams of your dead alliance.
I thought he was funny..especially the bit about flying a T1 scorp and dieing horribly
Lag exists..chk that video. Please CCP, believe us, it exists, and it is a real spoiler.
Local was only 150 at max with no capitals cynoing in, ok, we understand the 700 cap limit, but what is the excuse for a 60v60 gang fight ending up like that
I, erm, like kill things and stuff |
Gloomrake Ono
Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.06.28 19:43:00 -
[32]
Originally by: James 315 I didn't want to make another thread this week, since I've been pretty busy with my contract against Black Eclipse Corp
Change that to 'Craving some attention this week, since I've been getting really bored in Jita.'
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Cattraknoff
Caldari Retribution Corp.
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Posted - 2007.06.28 19:47:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Troubadour Actually, BoB beat ASCN because they were better. ASCN would show up with 200-300 pilots with mediocre gunnery skills, and bob would have 80 fully T2 snipers and spank them from 200km, far out of reach of the low-skilled ASCN pilots.
Also their leadership(ASCN) was just terrible, while BoB's was united and motivated.
do we really need to beat this horse again?
Several of us could in fact fit tech 2 guns. I'm positive in that 200-300 fleet, at least 40-50 would have t2 guns.
Now, seeing as BoB couldn't magically tell which ones those are, they'd also be shooting at guys who couldn't shoot them. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected]) |
LUKEC
Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.06.28 20:08:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Cattraknoff
Originally by: Troubadour Actually, BoB beat ASCN because they were better. ASCN would show up with 200-300 pilots with mediocre gunnery skills, and bob would have 80 fully T2 snipers and spank them from 200km, far out of reach of the low-skilled ASCN pilots.
Also their leadership(ASCN) was just terrible, while BoB's was united and motivated.
do we really need to beat this horse again?
Several of us could in fact fit tech 2 guns. I'm positive in that 200-300 fleet, at least 40-50 would have t2 guns.
Now, seeing as BoB couldn't magically tell which ones those are, they'd also be shooting at guys who couldn't shoot them.
I'm quite sure you could but you never showed up with them so it's just as good as the ones that couldn't. -------- I tanked D2 capital fleet and all I got was truncated Erebus mail.
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Joshua Foiritain
Gallente Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.06.28 20:11:00 -
[35]
I HEARD ASCN HAD OVER 9000 FLEET BATTLES AGAINST BOB -----
[Coreli Corporation Mainframe] |
Mr Bigglesworth
Maza Nostra oooh Shiny
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Posted - 2007.06.28 20:13:00 -
[36]
Complete crap, unfortunatley for TCF.
Its quite simple, when one party gets slaughtered due to superiority in any particular field, that party usually cannot comprehend why and how. It's true for every game, be it an FPS (CS - omg you hacker!) or EVE (You dont suffer from LAG!) - its all the same. People deny everything, and cry about every alternative imagineable.
I'm not saying everything your wrote has no bearing what-so-ever. The reality is everything has an effect, and only by looking at the grand scheme of things can you comprehend and foresee an outcome. Doing that, however, is pretty difficult and since most cant do it, they do what i mentioned above.
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Astasia Orian
Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.06.28 20:15:00 -
[37]
Hurry up and kill my corp pls mr hobbit!
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TheLast0ne
Confederation of Red Moon Red Moon Federation
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Posted - 2007.06.28 20:21:00 -
[38]
I just wanted to state that during the ASCN BOB war there were some good fights that happened. I was an FC for ASCN, and i led some very fun interesting 60 vs 60 fights in my home area of K-9. Im sure some bob pilots can agree. There are ways to kill bob, and continue to rack up kills. first way to do this is keep fights under 150 people. Bring high quality ships and fittings. Use your scouts to see what ships they have, and know who your first 10 primary/secondary targets are going to be.
The biggest mistakes i have seen is fleets using thier support to fire on primarys as well. Bad idea. Support should kill support. Drones always go other ships than primary/secondary.
For a little more clarification on the battles we had back in the ASCN days, probly the best that i can remember is a 15 - 20min fight against bob in k9. I think it was 50 v 50. Some how we came out on top, i think we lost 15 ships to thier 40. My gang consisted of T2 bs's and hacs/command ships. We won. Too bad we didnt do this more often but in south feyth we had some great fights. I like Chicken |
hangovur
Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.06.28 20:24:00 -
[39]
Originally by: James 315 There were about 100 ASCN members willing to join a fleet to invade BoB space. The fleet needed a leader, and at first blush I appeared to be the worst person for the job. I had joined ASCN a month earlier and had about one month's worth of PvP experience. I had never fought in a fleet battle, much less led a fleet in one.
ok, ive not been able to play much lately (one reason being i lag out completely in any large engagement) but I was playing alot during that campaign. Does it not seem obvious that the reason you have these so-called turkey shoots is because they let innexperienced and incompetent people lead large fleets? the fact that you were allowed to lead a hundred man fleet explains everything, not just in that battle but the entire engagement. the fact is that most often in these one sided victories one side was simply more disciplined and better led, and the losing sides only explanation for their screw up was that BOB cheated.
the difference is that most of these "fleet commanders" in these alliances wouldnt make it as a member in BOB, much less a commander. There is no nefarious explanation, its simple discipline, experience and strict recruitment policies that allow BOB to deal with these situations.
I havent been able to play due to various reasons (terrible lag being one) but from what I hear and read RA have had many succesful battles. so their are only two logical conclusions... They are well trained and led, or halp of CCP left BOB and moved to Russia.
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Interval
The Triad Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.28 20:39:00 -
[40]
Thanks for reminding us why ASCN had to die.
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welsh wizard
0utbreak
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Posted - 2007.06.28 20:50:00 -
[41]
If you meet them expecting to lose theres a good chance you will.
Their fleets are some of the most formiddable in Eve but they're not infallible.
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Beyond Horizon
Black Omega Security
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Posted - 2007.06.28 21:14:00 -
[42]
Hey James I've got this ABSOLUTELY crazy idea... What IF TCF are just bad at PvP and BoB are not? YEAH I know it sounds really crazy but WHAT IF DUDE... ? -
BH |
Dal Thrax
Nova Inc.
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Posted - 2007.06.28 21:16:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Gabba Just add every BoB pilot that is active to overview, and when you see them all log off and back on again (the little green/red portraits on the lower right corner) they are jumping in. Coincidence? Discuss!
Sounds like they're loggin off and on as a group so that only folks with the grid actively loaded are in their gang tbh.
Dal
Originally by: Seleene It seems to me that 'independence' is a relative term these days, determined mainly by the size and number of your guns.
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Derek
Caldari Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.06.28 21:21:00 -
[44]
Few of us killed a BOB vulture the other day, as soon as he exploded lag magically appeared and most of us had to relog. Coincendence?
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LUKEC
Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.06.28 21:22:00 -
[45]
Originally by: welsh wizard If you meet them expecting to lose theres a good chance you will.
Their fleets are some of the most formiddable in Eve but they're not infallible.
For the entire let's jump to tcf event, I think there was friendly warning to remove all leet stuff from ships, insure them(i generally don't insure anything) and check clones. Basicly there was alot of chatter on ts if/what/how then we just went to "suicide". I loved every second of it, even if I didn't even shoot. Writing off ship i undock with really helps.
-------- I tanked D2 capital fleet and all I got was truncated Erebus mail.
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The Beatnuts
UA Industry Red Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.28 21:29:00 -
[46]
Originally by: hangovur
I hear and read RA have had many succesful battles. so their are only two logical conclusions... They are well trained and led, or halp of CCP left BOB and moved to Russia.
or BOB=RA
Don't speak english - f1, f2, f3
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Hudsonn
Hybrid Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.06.28 21:36:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Derek Few of us killed a BOB vulture the other day, as soon as he exploded lag magically appeared and most of us had to relog. Coincendence?
He pushed his LAG button on you dude. It looks like the big red buttons in the movies, but this one says lag on it. Or laaaaaag, I forgot. ___________________________
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Wylker
Caldari Pyrrhus Sicarii Aftermath Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.28 22:01:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Flinx Evenstar
Originally by: Wylker If you ever watch the old bob easter egg hunt video, you will see why they usually decimate less experienced fleets. They do things like use grid-loaders, they actually have their BS's aligned and warping in and out of fights while their frig pilots constantly make new warp-ins. They don't let themselves get caught in bubbles and annhiliated.
I don't have anything to say against the blatent tinfoil hattery that is taking place in your thread, but I can tell you from watching how they operate that for 90% of enemy fleets out there, the fight against bob is lost long before they start worrying about lag.
Someone was kind enough to Fraps the lag for you
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=545303
It doesn't matter how skilled you are if that is what you see in battle
Let me clarify my point. I am sure lag exists, I am fairly confident that TCF got the bad end of something awful in this particular fight from a client/server standpoint. I am 100000% sure that accusing bob of magically causing lag in a fleet fights is the stupidest thing I have ever heard.
-Wylker
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Devoras2
Amarr KIA Corp KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.28 22:08:00 -
[49]
ASCN+ necromancy = bad.
Let the dead rest.
It's great being Amarr, aint it?
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Zagum Darkfin
Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.06.28 22:16:00 -
[50]
If you going to complain about lag, don't bring a fleet of 300 pilots to kill 100.
Last night for example, about 140ish Goonies jumped into 9-9 with our fleet of 60 in gang. We warped in at the gate around snipe range. We killed them all in their cheap tech 1 ships and we lost about 4 ships in that fight. Had about 3-4 sec module lag, hard time locking ships because they were dying too fast. One thing to note, they did have control of their ships as they approached our fleet. I got shot at many times. So those who want to complain about us causing lag and people can't do anything against us are liars. The main fact is that they just suck, ship setups suck, or target calling sucks. I will give them props for jumping in. Good show on that effort. ..i.. |
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Keta Min
Armoured Assassins
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Posted - 2007.06.28 22:16:00 -
[51]
rule 1 and 2, b-tards ffs.
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Herculite
Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.06.28 22:18:00 -
[52]
If someone were to look up my name on the BoB KB the first entry there was not as a BoB pilot but of ASCN.
It was my first big fleet fight, over a year ago and I was in a tristan since I was new and broke and had nothing that was fleet worthy handy.
Long story short, it was in fact a turkey shoot, we got wiped out.
Yes it lagged, badly, as you would expect with a couple of 100 people in system.
Now did BoB haxor this? I'm sure someone like James or any others who can't take responsibility for what happened would like people to believe it. Its easier to blame SOMETHING other than yourselves, and this was very VERY true of ASCN leadership.
But while it was lagging, that lag didn't stop the ASCN FC from not calling targets for over 30 seconds, and there being no reliable secondary FC set up. We lost because we played badly, we got wiped out for almost no losses to BoB. We had poor set ups, poor FCing and ended up with a poor result.
Though I'm sure with the current trend in 'blame everyone but yourself for all your problems', our FC must have been hacked by magical BoB hackers which was why he couldn't call targets or maybe his computer rebooted for no reason, something that had never happened before.
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Pinnk Floyd
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Posted - 2007.06.28 22:25:00 -
[53]
Considering BoB just lost an entire fleet to a desync in 9-9, I'm going to have to call "lol" on this thread.
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torN Deception
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.06.28 22:27:00 -
[54]
It's tinfoil-wearing paranoia to suggest that BoB (still) has devs in their pocket, or that they can press some big shiny red button labelled 'LAG' that sends a signal to CCP headquarters.
However, BoB has shown both an ability and a willingness to find lag and desync bugs and use them to their advantage. This is pretty undeniable at this point. It doesn't explain every BoB win of course, after all they've got lots of SP, lots of isk, and are generally pretty damn good PvP players.
But when BoB jumps in a quarter of its force into a system and almost everyone in the system desyncs, defenders as well as the BoB foreguard, allowing BoB to jump the mass of their fleet in and have a turkey shoot on unresponding ships, that has nothing to do with skill.
I don't think it's honorable or acceptable. I suppose if you don't mind ignoring the spirit of the rules as long as you (barely) stay within the boundaries of the letter, and only care about winning at any cost, you won't have a problem with it.
I do wish that BoB would be a bit more upfront about their tactics though. I don't mind that they play EVE to win and ignore all other considerations, I do think it's absurdly hypocritical and transparently false when Dianabolic or some other BoB big-wig shows up and talks about how they're all about honor while the coalition isn't and they only want good, fair fights. |
Gloomrake Ono
Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.06.28 22:30:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Pinnk Floyd Considering BoB just lost an entire fleet to a desync in 9-9, I'm going to have to call "lol" on this thread.
Not same, for me this time was just 330 people in local style lag.
We love it, bring more.
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Darth Hammer
Caldari Centurians
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Posted - 2007.06.28 22:32:00 -
[56]
One of the things I have garnered from these forums is how the problems with game mechanics can be taken advantage of.In some of the large battles I have read about the victories were won in that fashion like the one battle you speak of where ascn had 300 and all died with none of bob getting popped.I have played other mmo where the same things happen, where the ones best able to take advantage of the flaws in the game mechanics win. Reading about titan kills from what I have read RA is the only ones so far to actualy kill a titan in combat the other ones that been popped were done by taking advantage of the probs with the game mechanics. This is something they either need to fix or to simplify the combat system so ppl or grps cant take advantage of the problems with the game mechanics. Darth Hammer CEO
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Popperr
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.06.28 22:32:00 -
[57]
If you going to complain about lag, don't bring a fleet of 100 pilots to kill 150
Tonight for example about 100ish BoBies jumped into M-R with our fleet of 150 in gang. We warped in at the gate at close range. We killed them all in their cheap deadspace fitted faction ships and we last about 4 ships in that fight. Had about 3-4 sec module lag, hard time locking ships because they were dying so fast. One thing to note, they did have control of their ships as they approached our ships. We got shot at many time. So those who want to complain about us causing lag and people can't do anything against us are liars. The main fact is that they just suck, ship setups suck, or target calling sucks. I will give them props for jumping in. Good show on that effort.
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acompton
Dark-Rising Fallen Souls
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Posted - 2007.06.28 22:45:00 -
[58]
What I want to know is if the "Ghost of ASCN Yet to Be" will show us if wee "CYVOK Cratchett" lives or not. I just see the crutch sitting there and I am sad...
God Bless us Everyone!
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Herculite
Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.06.28 22:58:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Popperr If you going to complain about lag, don't bring a fleet of 100 pilots to kill 150
Tonight for example about 100ish BoBies jumped into M-R with our fleet of 150 in gang. We warped in at the gate at close range. We killed them all in their cheap deadspace fitted faction ships and we last about 4 ships in that fight. Had about 3-4 sec module lag, hard time locking ships because they were dying so fast. One thing to note, they did have control of their ships as they approached our ships. We got shot at many time. So those who want to complain about us causing lag and people can't do anything against us are liars. The main fact is that they just suck, ship setups suck, or target calling sucks. I will give them props for jumping in. Good show on that effort.
To bad you weren't even there
I wasn't there either, but I didn't come on to troll with 2nd hand accounts.
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Wylker
Caldari Pyrrhus Sicarii Aftermath Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.28 23:16:00 -
[60]
Edited by: Wylker on 28/06/2007 23:15:01
Originally by: Popperr If you going to complain about lag, don't bring a fleet of 100 pilots to kill 150
Tonight for example about 100ish BoBies jumped into M-R with our fleet of 150 in gang. We warped in at the gate at close range. We killed them all in their cheap deadspace fitted faction ships and we last about 4 ships in that fight. Had about 3-4 sec module lag, hard time locking ships because they were dying so fast. One thing to note, they did have control of their ships as they approached our ships. We got shot at many time. So those who want to complain about us causing lag and people can't do anything against us are liars. The main fact is that they just suck, ship setups suck, or target calling sucks. I will give them props for jumping in. Good show on that effort.
Its people like you posting things like this that will ensure that no matter what goons accomplish everyone will always think of them as illiterate 10 year olds looking at **** and screaming the n word into TS. Did you even bother to read the thread? Did you bother to read anything at all since conception?
-Wylker
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