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Judicator
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Posted - 2004.01.20 16:00:00 -
[1]
- Remove midspace bookmarks. Only space near celestial objects should be bookmarkable.
- If you log out and your ship is in space it stays there for a duration of 2 hours, or forever depending on balance.
- Remove sentry guns from 0,1-0,4
- Increase agression timer to prevent an agressor from docking for a duration of 2 hours.
This will give PC rats more playground but also give pc rat hunters an easier time cathching rats.
Now they can't hide at a BM, they can't dock if within the 2 hours timer and if the log off at an object they will still be in space and be destroyable pod and all.
Naturally, if they log an account alt theur ship of main still stays in space.
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Wild Rho
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Posted - 2004.01.20 16:06:00 -
[2]
As a pirate I acctually agree with this. Mid space bookmarks are a nightmare for pirates as well and rpeventing ppl using them makes life easier. At leas the pirates targets have the chance to dock and stay safe and it makes things more interesting for PC rats becuase now they have to get away with their "crimes"
The removal of the sentry guns however would more or less make those low sec empire space systems no different to non empire space so I think they should stay. However they maybe only respond to hostile actions not directed at the gates from 0.4 to 0.2.
I have the body of a supermodel. I just can't remember where I left it... |
Skillz
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Posted - 2004.01.20 16:11:00 -
[3]
First, point. agree
Second point. disagree Five or ten minutes is sufficent when combined with the first point.
Third, point. disagree An Empire with no form of security is just stupid, especially when seen from an RP perspective.
Forth point. disagree Fifteen mins is more than sufficent when combined with the first point.
Keep on flaming, lamers.
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Tibor Ferenc
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Posted - 2004.01.20 16:12:00 -
[4]
The problem I can see with the 2 hour logout timer is what happens if you have a system crash and cant relog?
http://mmogcenter.com/tiborsig.jpg
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Judicator
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Posted - 2004.01.20 16:19:00 -
[5]
Quote: The problem I can see with the 2 hour logout timer is what happens if you have a system crash and cant relog?
That is naturally a problem. This is just my idea of making PvP more viable than it is today. Midspace bookmarks is the worst. Perhaps timers need to be less, it would be a matter of striking a balance. -------------------------
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Junko Willsso
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Posted - 2004.01.20 16:19:00 -
[6]
Sorry but that is total nonsense.
Prevent bookmarking in space ? Why cant poeple bookmark where they like, so they cant escape ? Yeah thats fair !! When proposed new scanner ships appear you will be able to search the system anyhow.
2 hours after logging in space? Oh yeah, so if we CTD then we are guaranteed dead.
Removal of Sentry guns in empire space ? So how would that differ in anyway to non-empire space?
Sorry but your suggestions are so one sided to be able to PK its unbelievable!
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Viqer Fell
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Posted - 2004.01.20 16:28:00 -
[7]
I personally believe that being able to bookmark so called safe spots in space is both a blessing and a curse. I have them and on accoasion do use them however I would much rather see them removed from the game. I would be willing to put up with their loss if it meant that i could realistically hunt someone down in a system. I hate having a gang check numerous stations, planets, belts and moons only to find that the guy is effectively impossible to find and I guess when people camp our station they get the same with us when we are not willing to come play. I'd personally much rather have to run about for 5 minutes being chased than just be able to sit there comfortably.
Ok, so what the hell is this Golden Ratio? |
Judicator
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Posted - 2004.01.20 16:36:00 -
[8]
Quote: Sorry but that is total nonsense.
Prevent bookmarking in space ? Why cant poeple bookmark where they like, so they cant escape ? Yeah thats fair !! When proposed new scanner ships appear you will be able to search the system anyhow.
Please go end yourself.
The reason is that it totally voids any risk. If PC rats sense danger they can go to a midspace BM and laugh at you. If PC rats try and catch a target it can go sit at a midspace BM and laugh at them. It's utterly stupid right now.
I'd like to see those new scanners, but I figure they are "Soon(TM) and thus removing midspace BM is most likely easier and faster to achieve. Quote:
2 hours after logging in space? Oh yeah, so if we CTD then we are guaranteed dead.
It's a suggestion and the timer can be lower depending on balance but stop the "omg if I CTD" BS will you, that is one of the lamest excuses I keep hearing. No change becaue if I CTD. I have not had a CTD for ages now. Also, it's my suggestions.
Quote:
Removal of Sentry guns in empire space ? So how would that differ in anyway to non-empire space?
Sorry but your suggestions are so one sided to be able to PK its unbelievable!
Have a cookie crybaby. I am not a PK, if anything I would hunt PC rats and one person can vouch for that. Also, get some glasses, I write in 0,1-0,4 as it once was. -------------------------
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Torvus
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Posted - 2004.01.20 16:42:00 -
[9]
Judicator,
Well, I guess you're entitled to your opinion.
I think these are all terrible ideas, and I sincerely hope that no one at CCP pays them any attention whatsoever.
You might think these would improve a particular aspect of the game for you, but I believe that it would decrease many other people's enjoyment of the game, and result in a poorer quality experience all round.
I like the devÆs suggestions much better û specialized hunter / scanner vessels designed to locate someone in a system. Ganged with effective EW vessels, you could mount a very effective hunter killer team.
Combined with agent based character location discovery, I think it plugs most of the problems youÆve tried to solve the wrong way.
As for logging off, itÆs a lame way out of a fight youÆve lost, but IÆd rather give people the benefit of the doubt than open up everyone to the damage caused by lamers going round hunting for logged off ships and making easy credits. Where's the challenge in that!?
_____________________________________________________________ War is much too serious a matter to be entrusted to the military. Georges Clemenceau (1841 - 1929)
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Judicator
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Posted - 2004.01.20 16:55:00 -
[10]
Quote: Judicator,
Well, I guess you're entitled to your opinion.
I think these are all terrible ideas, and I sincerely hope that no one at CCP pays them any attention whatsoever.
You might think these would improve a particular aspect of the game for you, but I believe that it would decrease many other people's enjoyment of the game, and result in a poorer quality experience all round.
I like the devÆs suggestions much better û specialized hunter / scanner vessels designed to locate someone in a system. Ganged with effective EW vessels, you could mount a very effective hunter killer team.
Combined with agent based character location discovery, I think it plugs most of the problems youÆve tried to solve the wrong way.
As for logging off, itÆs a lame way out of a fight youÆve lost, but IÆd rather give people the benefit of the doubt than open up everyone to the damage caused by lamers going round hunting for logged off ships and making easy credits. Where's the challenge in that!?
Yeah, very effective team...bye guys *logs off*
As long as you can easily log off those moduels will not make a difference. Anyone, PC rat, bounty hunter opr just a "victim" can just log off and play an alt. -------------------------
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Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2004.01.20 17:19:00 -
[11]
Quote: Remove midspace bookmarks. Only space near celestial objects should be bookmarkable.
Allow bookmarks only within 250km of a celestial object - this leaves the tactical aspect of bookmarks while removing the cheap-way-out aspect.
Quote: If you log out and your ship is in space it stays there for a duration of 2 hours, or forever depending on balance.
If you introduce option 1, you won't need this option. I would like to see players names stay in the guest list of a station after they have logged off inside it though.
Quote: Remove sentry guns from 0.1-0.4
Been discussed a billion times and the general consensus seems to be: Leave them there.
Quote: Increase agression timer to prevent an agressor from docking for a duration of 2 hours.
2 hours is a bit excessive. The current timer is only something like 60 seconds which seems too short.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
pooti
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Posted - 2004.01.20 17:25:00 -
[12]
Uh, so if you attack someone you have to wait two hours 'til you can dock and log? And what if someone attacks you during that two hours? You have to wait ANOTHER two hours?
No thanks.
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pooti
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Posted - 2004.01.20 17:27:00 -
[13]
Edited by: pooti on 20/01/2004 17:31:01 Also, I see no reason to remove midspace bookmarks. I would rather see the scanner - asteroid lag fixed & a warpto module, or the ability to warp x distance in whatever direction you're facing.
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Wild Rho
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Posted - 2004.01.20 17:28:00 -
[14]
Quote: As for logging off, itÆs a lame way out of a fight youÆve lost, but IÆd rather give people the benefit of the doubt than open up everyone to the damage caused by lamers going round hunting for logged off ships and making easy credits. Where's the challenge in that!?
If a player wants to log off they can dock in the station and do it. It's that simple. Doig it in space should add a risk element.
I have the body of a supermodel. I just can't remember where I left it... |
Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2004.01.20 17:30:00 -
[15]
Quote: Also, I see no reason to remove midspace bookmarks. I would rather see the scanner - asteroid lag fixed & a warpto module.
I've heard only Elite Frigate "Scout" ships will have the ability to "arp to" another ship.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Discorporation
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Posted - 2004.01.20 17:31:00 -
[16]
Point 1 was adressed in the Dev Chat yesterday.
There will be 1337 frigates with system scanning modules, allowing you to get a lsit of people in-system. When you try to warp to a ship 150 km away, you get the "You have not got the required module" message, leading me to believe there will be a module.
Scan -> Warp to -> Gank
[Heterocephalus glaber]
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Lentia
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Posted - 2004.01.20 17:33:00 -
[17]
I agree with Judicator. He is on the right track. Right now PvP is totally stupid. Pirates attack then warp away to a midwarp bookmark and "dissapear" from the universe. How totally stupid is that? I mean even from a RP perspective its totally insane. From a combat persepective its more than insane.
Personnaly I dont think anyone should ever be able to "log off" under ANY circumstances. Whats the point? If you want to be safe go to a station and dock.
I dont think there should be ANY time limit on using jump gates and docking at stations just cause u attacked someone. How would they know? and why would they even care?
I also agree with the midwarp bookmark thing being a little silly. I mean you're going a couple times the speed of light and you think a computer can locate an exact point in space? Bull! Nav computers should not be able to bookmark anything while in mid-warp.
But really the whole attack then log off thing is so silly and it makes the whole game unbalanced and really unplayable. There is no way to defend against an enemy that just dissapears into oblivion then can return when every1 is gone.
Lentia Military Officer http://www.staf.online-guild.com/ |
pooti
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Posted - 2004.01.20 18:00:00 -
[18]
Quote: But really the whole attack then log off thing is so silly and it makes the whole game unbalanced and really unplayable. There is no way to defend against an enemy that just dissapears into oblivion then can return when every1 is gone.
Weren't you part of the force that did that to us last night?
The changes are nowhere near practical and will never happen, I don't know why I'm even discussing this.
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ProphetGuru
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Posted - 2004.01.20 18:09:00 -
[19]
I agree with pooti tbh.
It is not impossible to find someone midspace tho.
It takes patience, and SKILL with the scanner. We have succesfully located someone at a midspace 12au from anything, got to them, and killed them.
I am certainly no expert with the scanner, but we have some guys who have turned it into an art form.
I say leave the midspace bookmarks, and add the tracking frigates. This will make these guys who have practiced this skill even more useful.
imho Evolution..... Just when you thought you were winning.
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Tenacha Khan
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Posted - 2004.01.20 18:23:00 -
[20]
Quote: I agree with pooti tbh.
It is not impossible to find someone midspace tho.
It takes patience, and SKILL with the scanner. We have succesfully located someone at a midspace 12au from anything, got to them, and killed them.
I am certainly no expert with the scanner, but we have some guys who have turned it into an art form.
I say leave the midspace bookmarks, and add the tracking frigates. This will make these guys who have practiced this skill even more useful.
imho
Totally agee with you and pooti.
To the empire huggers who dont want people to log off in space..pls stfu. Maybe you have never gone out of a system without a station, but try going up into fade, tribute, the vale, 20 jumps from station and have to log in a hurry...err what to do then. Hmmmm I hear you say..."I think Ill die".
Mid space bms need to stay for tactical reasons, but further than 250km, cause ya cant warp to a bm which is only 250km away....But if we get the warp to modules, the bms should stay, because then there would be an advantage to the fleets who use the elite ships and so on.
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pooti
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Posted - 2004.01.20 18:40:00 -
[21]
Tracking people down with the scanner is one of the most satisfying things in Eve, I would hate to see it go.
I really think the frigates will solve all the problems once introduced, but being able to warp a certain distance in any direction would be much more fun.
Most important, though, is fixing the scanner lag. In a system with only a few belts scanning/tracking works great and is tons of fun, but in systems like YZ-LQL with 10+ belts it takes so long to get all the asteroid belts loaded that you can't really do anything.
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Teeth
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Posted - 2004.01.20 18:45:00 -
[22]
Quote:
First, point. agree
Second point. disagree Five or ten minutes is sufficent when combined with the first point.
Third, point. disagree An Empire with no form of security is just stupid, especially when seen from an RP perspective.
Forth point. disagree Fifteen mins is more than sufficent when combined with the first point.
Holy crap! Agreed with on all points with Skillz.
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Teeth
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Posted - 2004.01.20 18:46:00 -
[23]
I might add that warping to any item on scanner would work just as well as disabling bookmarks in empty space.
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Admiral IceBlock
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Posted - 2004.01.20 18:59:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Admiral IceBlock on 20/01/2004 19:11:23 Edited by: Admiral IceBlock on 20/01/2004 19:00:41 remove Bookmarks is a good idea, u wanna hide? warp to a moon or planet!! with bookmarks u would be able to warp to a safe spot and log off, but without bookmarks u would think twice b4 logging off on a moon or planet!!!
Quote: I think these are all terrible ideas, and I sincerely hope that no one at CCP pays them any attention whatsoever.
and this comes from the n00b corp that says "griefers decleared war on my corp, they kill all our n00bs and the n00bs cry and quit, this is a serious issue..."!!!
i sincerely hope that no one listens to YOU! n00b
"We brake for nobody"
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toaster
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Posted - 2004.01.20 20:46:00 -
[25]
Quote: Sorry but that is total nonsense.
Prevent bookmarking in space ? Why cant poeple bookmark where they like, so they cant escape ? Yeah thats fair !! When proposed new scanner ships appear you will be able to search the system anyhow.
2 hours after logging in space? Oh yeah, so if we CTD then we are guaranteed dead.
Removal of Sentry guns in empire space ? So how would that differ in anyway to non-empire space?
Sorry but your suggestions are so one sided to be able to PK its unbelievable!
the new ship scanner will rock, but you know what will come once people can warp to your 'safe' bookmark? warp-to-moon-instalogoffs skyrocket!
I agree with many points of the original poist except the time frame. 2 hours too long. Maybe 10 minutes tho? For stations ,15 minutes seem fair to me tho. ------------------------------------------------
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toaster
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Posted - 2004.01.20 20:59:00 -
[26]
Quote: I agree with Judicator. He is on the right track. Right now PvP is totally stupid. Pirates attack then warp away to a midwarp bookmark and "dissapear" from the universe. How totally stupid is that? I mean even from a RP perspective its totally insane. From a combat persepective its more than insane.
Agreed, and on the flipside anytime a pirate enters a system, non-pirate player behavior is as follows --- > warp to bm > wait > talk smack if so desire > if scanner shows pirate is scanning and searching for you > log.
Quote:
Personnaly I dont think anyone should ever be able to "log off" under ANY circumstances. Whats the point? If you want to be safe go to a station and dock.
agreed totally in an ideal world, but many people have real life committments that must take them away from the game so this is an unfortunate necessity.
Quote:
I dont think there should be ANY time limit on using jump gates and docking at stations just cause u attacked someone. How would they know? and why would they even care?
If you were around in the first few months of eve, this was put into place because people would sit on top of a gate and blast away. If the odds went against them, they just jumped (no risk to them at all). The timer solved this problem (pretty well i might add).
Quote:
I also agree with the midwarp bookmark thing being a little silly. I mean you're going a couple times the speed of light and you think a computer can locate an exact point in space? Bull! Nav computers should not be able to bookmark anything while in mid-warp.
In theory i don't see why it's not possible, but since this is a game it's a little different. I think keep the bookmarks but make the logoff timer extended a bit, and make it possible to warp to any ship u find on ur scanner (that way hidden belts/stations still require skill with a scanner to find). ------------------------------------------------
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Dust Puppy
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Posted - 2004.01.20 21:15:00 -
[27]
1. don¦t remove midpspace bookmarks just release the uber frigs
2. I would rather see that a ship would disappear after 5 mins and if it is being fired upon than not until 5 minutes have expired since act of aggression. You might say that¦s a bit harsh in case of a ctd or isp going down or whatever all I can say is tough luck. It really doesn¦t happen that often (at least not to me)
3. I was speculating that perhaps sentries should guard it¦s people only that his people that have high standing with the owners of the sentries. Probably unrealistic solution and very hard to impliment so just forget about I ever wrote anything about it
4. I always wondered why there wasn¦t no jump prohibitor module (could work for docking to). Just a thought. __________ Capacitor research |
Major Trucker
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Posted - 2004.01.20 21:23:00 -
[28]
Pooti said:
Quote: Edited by: pooti on 20/01/2004 17:31:01 Also, I see no reason to remove midspace bookmarks. I would rather see the scanner - asteroid lag fixed & a warpto module, or the ability to warp x distance in whatever direction you're facing.
I must agree with the scanner part on this one or the warp to module. I recently placed my secure cans out in the middle of nowhere (to prevent trash like a good eve citizen) and I guess when you only have one bookmark for an important area shift + click means erase bookmark. Trying to find them I'd drain cap to almost nothing then warp and make bookmarks on either side of my cans go back and forth, closer and closer unfortunatly the closest I could get was 10,000,000km , but that's 10,000 times as far as Warp To works. A module for increasing Warp To distances for ships or cans would be cool and a great tool for bounty hunters/vengful pilots.
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Torvus
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Posted - 2004.01.20 21:32:00 -
[29]
Quote: and this comes from the n00b corp that says "griefers decleared war on my corp, they kill all our n00bs and the n00bs cry and quit, this is a serious issue..."!!!
i sincerely hope that no one listens to YOU! n00b
Yes Iceblock, a very constructive, relevant and well thought out post you put together there.
Congratulations! It's nice to see your social skills progressing. You'll be acting your age before you know it (Give or take a decade) _____________________________________________________________ War is much too serious a matter to be entrusted to the military. Georges Clemenceau (1841 - 1929)
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DREAMWORKS
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Posted - 2004.01.20 22:48:00 -
[30]
Quote:
Quote: Judicator,
Well, I guess you're entitled to your opinion.
I think these are all terrible ideas, and I sincerely hope that no one at CCP pays them any attention whatsoever.
You might think these would improve a particular aspect of the game for you, but I believe that it would decrease many other people's enjoyment of the game, and result in a poorer quality experience all round.
I like the devÆs suggestions much better û specialized hunter / scanner vessels designed to locate someone in a system. Ganged with effective EW vessels, you could mount a very effective hunter killer team.
Combined with agent based character location discovery, I think it plugs most of the problems youÆve tried to solve the wrong way.
As for logging off, itÆs a lame way out of a fight youÆve lost, but IÆd rather give people the benefit of the doubt than open up everyone to the damage caused by lamers going round hunting for logged off ships and making easy credits. Where's the challenge in that!?
Yeah, very effective team...bye guys *logs off*
As long as you can easily log off those moduels will not make a difference. Anyone, PC rat, bounty hunter opr just a "victim" can just log off and play an alt.
The moment your "idea's" will be implemented, will mean the death of this game as it is.
Do you think people stick around after losing their ships to a ctd/crash and having their character stuck for 2 hours and having the ship blown up by npc's?
Do you even hunt npc's? When i used to hunt npc's i got a ctd 4 times a month, thats 4 times a month a ctd causing me to lose a 100 mil ship. Do you know how long it takes to regain a 100 mil ship? Too long.
The moment your silly and rather 'funny' suggestion makes it to the game, this will be the moment that i quit the game and do what i did with Lineage. Get all buddies to move to another game with me.
Its possible to log what shut down the client, an exception, userclosure etc. (if a modem registration tool can do it, so can a game.) Based on the logout type people should get a penalty.. Sure people would pull out their modem to fake something, but after some times the chance exists for them that their gear quits with the reset.
Give someone who forces the game to shut down manually a penalty of 10-15 minutes and others as it is now.
Most consern is: If this feature would cause more lag, it can sod off. __________________________
http://www.nin.com/visuals/thtf_hi.html |
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