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Mung Lore
Supero Suius
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Posted - 2007.07.02 15:22:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Ray McCormack
Originally by: Mung Lore raw I do beleave you need to go read that dev blog about the API keys.
I believe you need to stop posting or learn how to structure an argument.
I believe you need to stop posting and stay on topic. Thanks
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Ray McCormack
BIG
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Posted - 2007.07.02 15:24:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Mung Lore I believe you need to stop posting and stay on topic. Thanks
I believe you need to explain to me exactly how having someone's API key will stop them from running off with the ISK you have invested in them.
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Mung Lore
Supero Suius
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Posted - 2007.07.02 15:25:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Shar Tegral
Originally by: Wylker I don't think its disingenuous unless you assume I'm trying to be malicious or sneaky.
My sincerest apologies. What I meant by "this whole thing" is the false sense of security that API disclosure is supposedly going to bring about. "This whole thing" being Mung Lore's attempt to poison the IPO market even further, slander the names of those who have not scammed the community, and his ongoing Ginger-like blathering. Funnily enough... 3 different toons, the same kind of behavior and activity. Proof that alts, and school holidays, have some serious side effects for Eve.
There are tons of people who are out there in the investment market who know me lol and for them to say that I have anything to do with any of the scams out there will not only make my laugh, but them also. One of them would be EMFI.
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BSAC Manager
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Posted - 2007.07.02 15:27:00 -
[34]
I have to agree with Ray on this one.
Giving out the API's is not going to stop scams and smart scammers are going to use it in their advantage. Creating a false sense of security around releasing APIĘs is very dangerous. If IĘm wrong on this one then let ccp post here that APIs = secure IPO.
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Mung Lore
Supero Suius
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Posted - 2007.07.02 15:29:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Ray McCormack
Originally by: Mung Lore I believe you need to stop posting and stay on topic. Thanks
I believe you need to explain to me exactly how having someone's API key will stop them from running off with the ISK you have invested in them.
it shows how they ran the corp in the past, how they did it. If you need a big sum of isk going out, with out anything going in, there is something wrong. Funny someone posted a screen shot of my taking money from the UEMA corp wallet, its kinda funny if they went forward one page your see it start to flow back in.
But, I guss thats what happens when you had your IPO scamed away from you, and forcefully removed from the corp you worked 5 months on.. And then on top of it all having everyone in eve call you a scammer, when the real scammer said that they scamed ya.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1993624284569945666&q=eib+%2B+scam&total=2&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0
have a watch for ya self, lessen up at the very start of the it.
and then your prob understand why I want some kind of prof that they are doing what they said there doing with the isk I want to invest.
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2007.07.02 15:42:00 -
[36]
Could you please make that link an actually linkey. It's broken to forums for me. (Utilizing some handicap features to read the forums. Sorry.)
The Eve-Online forums may not have invented whining, but they sure have perfected it.
Shar Tegral> Well someone please say something quotable for this month!!!! |
Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2007.07.02 15:43:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Mung Lore and then your prob understand why I want some kind of prof that they are doing what they said there doing with the isk I want to invest.
Also, I understand your desire. What I object to is your witch hunt on anyone who does not satisfy it.
One is reasonable... ...
The Eve-Online forums may not have invented whining, but they sure have perfected it.
Shar Tegral> Well someone please say something quotable for this month!!!! |
Motivated Prophet
Zerodot Schools Power Corrupts Industry's
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Posted - 2007.07.02 15:53:00 -
[38]
I was thinking about this last night, actually. API keys are likely to be very high on the list of requirements for new IPO's starting up in many fields. As to demanding them from older corporations--fat chance. One of my mains is on the same account as Motivated Prophet, if nothing else.
*sigh*, this could have been such a good post if you didn't make it so damn confrontational.
MP --
Proud steward of 47 billion isk in public money, and counting. Ask me about mineral compression! |
LaVista Vista
Red Army Inc
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Posted - 2007.07.02 16:20:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Mung Lore User ID: 1014301 API Key: erqmNUMcKREAOg1cgi2YBuXOt44vKoP1WZGNSuvEyYPAfA331mRiahdhlz8rvn3X Created: 24/06/2007 00:12:30
enjoy
But you could at least have given us the full rights, so we could see your wallet.. Anything else proves our point. Not even you wanna post your own information.
CEO Of Red Army Inc. |
DragonRiderTao
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Posted - 2007.07.02 16:56:00 -
[40]
It is quite amusing to see people disagree with your idea that have posted in my thread asking for the exact same information as screenshots. We might see more edited posts now that these inconsistencies have been posted.
How many dragons can you slay? You cant slay mine. |
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Epidemis
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Posted - 2007.07.02 17:33:00 -
[41]
WoW did it and look, nothing happened!
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2007.07.02 17:46:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Epidemis WoW did it and look, nothing happened!
I'm afraid to ask but are you somehow comparing "The Armory" with the Eve data export?
The Eve-Online forums may not have invented whining, but they sure have perfected it.
Shar Tegral> Well someone please say something quotable for this month!!!! |
Mung Lore
Supero Suius
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Posted - 2007.07.02 18:40:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Mung Lore on 02/07/2007 18:39:55
Originally by: LaVista Vista
Originally by: Mung Lore User ID: 1014301 API Key: erqmNUMcKREAOg1cgi2YBuXOt44vKoP1WZGNSuvEyYPAfA331mRiahdhlz8rvn3X Created: 24/06/2007 00:12:30
enjoy
But you could at least have given us the full rights, so we could see your wallet.. Anything else proves our point. Not even you wanna post your own information.
yes but I run a privite IPO and has been doing so for a very long time now, this is a privite IPO with only 3 or 4 investors, and they all have the full rights kill.
You have no shares with in My new corp there for you have no rights to that information, its not a public corp, because the public doesnt own it, privite investors do.
If this was a public corp and I did a IPO I would of posted the full access key with in the IPO it self.
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Banni Vinda
EnfuRia Confederation of Independent Corporations
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Posted - 2007.07.02 18:43:00 -
[44]
What would people think about a 3rd party (trusted) site that someone offering an IPO could give their key to. The site would then allow access to certain information, decided by the IPO manager, by the general public. The info could be limited eg only transactions between certain dates, maybe hide item/location specifics etc. This means that (potential) investors could get sufficient info to make informed choices, but still keeping enough privacy for the CEO. A small fee could be charged for this service, in a similar way to the auditing service offered previously. Comments please?
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2007.07.02 18:51:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Banni Vinda What would people think about a 3rd party (trusted) site that someone offering an IPO could give their key to.
Because the Eve community recognizes no trustable identities. Thus it would fall flat. Besides it is not that hard to tweak the information that can be gathered. All one needs do is have 1000 reasonable transactions/entries in the past week to have the books come up clean. That's it. This is why the export is not an anti-scam measure in any regard whatsoever. It is simply a fine tool for people to easier understand/tally up their own activities without having to spend extraneous hours online (in game) manually transcribing or calculating. Now people can just pull that info, hourly at best, and either spend their time actually doing things (instead of hitting the database for journal pages) or just getting off line and reducing the load.
The Eve-Online forums may not have invented whining, but they sure have perfected it.
Shar Tegral> Well someone please say something quotable for this month!!!! |
Shadarle
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Posted - 2007.07.02 18:52:00 -
[46]
Feeding trolls is a bad idea. Based on the completely incoherent replies and inability to engage in any sort of reasoned argument I have to assume Mung is simply trolling people here.
Anyone replying to Mung because he called them a scammer has been trolled quite effectively imo.
No sane person would give this information away as it destroys your business plan and gives away sensitive information. I wouldn't even give this information away for 100 bill IPO if I started one. If someone doesn't trust me then I don't want their money, it's that simple. Luckily I don't have to worry about this as I will never require outside financing for anything I do.
As to myself... I'd be FAR more likely to invest in a good business plan if the person gave me this information. But I wouldn't refuse to invest in people with good reps who refused to provide this info.
Tanking Setups Compared
Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained |
Mung Lore
Supero Suius
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Posted - 2007.07.02 18:55:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Mung Lore on 02/07/2007 18:57:31 sounds nice, but I will not invest a 1 isk in to a corp with out the full APIkey. I don't care if I get it after I invest, or I have to invest so much to get it, but a corp will get not any isk from me with out it.
I don't want it to learn how they do it, I mean for real ok, a reserch IPO, wtf do they have to hide. TELL ME, ok a ship building IPO, wtf are they going to hide. FOR REAL! EVERYTHING YOU people are trying to hide with your keys has been done.
I can understand not giving that information out due to some locations that might be gived out when you buy a BPO. Ok this is easy, only give it out to people to have say 5% or 10% shares. (because what will they do what were you are come kill you and lose out on isk..)
The main key for using the API's are to keep a open public track of what and where the money goes. Its not to find out how you run your IPO because well any IPO that is out there I can tell ya how you run and I havnt even do jack.
T2 components. Its not hard to find t2 builders and get contracts to provide all there stuff, you think by giving this information out to your investors they will take your clients. No but they will fell a little big more safe that if they ever wanted to can look and what you did with there money to see if there is any miss use of it.
I'm going to hold a strong foot on this issue, and will keep pushing it, until IPO's start giving there main APIkey to there investors.
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Mung Lore
Supero Suius
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Posted - 2007.07.02 18:57:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Shar Tegral
Originally by: Banni Vinda What would people think about a 3rd party (trusted) site that someone offering an IPO could give their key to.
Because the Eve community recognizes no trustable identities. Thus it would fall flat. Besides it is not that hard to tweak the information that can be gathered. All one needs do is have 1000 reasonable transactions/entries in the past week to have the books come up clean. That's it. This is why the export is not an anti-scam measure in any regard whatsoever. It is simply a fine tool for people to easier understand/tally up their own activities without having to spend extraneous hours online (in game) manually transcribing or calculating. Now people can just pull that info, hourly at best, and either spend their time actually doing things (instead of hitting the database for journal pages) or just getting off line and reducing the load.
You do know you can view more than 1000 right? you can view ALL everything 6000, 7000, your not limited by the first 1000.
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Marodi Julita
Sublime Captial Investments
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Posted - 2007.07.02 18:59:00 -
[49]
Wow, for a moment I thought I was reading in CAOD.
The most dangerous scams, such as EIB, are completely legitimate and they just walk away with the money. So no API would prevent a scam such as that.
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2007.07.02 19:04:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Mung Lore You do know you can view more than 1000 right? you can view ALL everything 6000, 7000, your not limited by the first 1000.
Ooooooooh you sounded so firm and authoritative that I got a warm shudder up my spine. Then I realized that you were demonstrating cluelessness again. You can not view entry 1001 if it is more than a week old. So, to have clean books have 1000 clean transactions in a week. Viola... you may commence scamming.
The Eve-Online forums may not have invented whining, but they sure have perfected it.
Shar Tegral> Well someone please say something quotable for this month!!!! |
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Mung Lore
Supero Suius
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Posted - 2007.07.02 19:07:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Shadarle Feeding trolls is a bad idea. Based on the completely incoherent replies and inability to engage in any sort of reasoned argument I have to assume Mung is simply trolling people here.
Anyone replying to Mung because he called them a scammer has been trolled quite effectively imo.
No sane person would give this information away as it destroys your business plan and gives away sensitive information. I wouldn't even give this information away for 100 bill IPO if I started one. If someone doesn't trust me then I don't want their money, it's that simple. Luckily I don't have to worry about this as I will never require outside financing for anything I do.
As to myself... I'd be FAR more likely to invest in a good business plan if the person gave me this information. But I wouldn't refuse to invest in people with good reps who refused to provide this info.
You tell me the IPO and I will tell you about with in 90% of how they make there isk. its not hard to look at it and know..
Lets take capital building. OK, UMM "I want 30billion to build carriers", ok they need BPOs, so.. are they going to hide were they buy the BPO's well you can only get them so many places, and with a location agent you can find out were they are going to buy them anyway.
Ok building it, ok.. who cares so you build in low sec space sale it to someone, and someone has your full API key and finds who you sold it to and so on and camps out and kill that new carrers or what ever. Ques what you just got a repeat customer.
I mean to protect your pos, and were you do your business, isnt going to happen, I can use location agents to find your pos, you have to fuel it sometime.
I mean "sensitive information" lol whats so sensitive about unless they are scamming, what are they protecting are they protecting HOW THEY build something. WEll its not that hard I'll tell ya all how.
Are you protection location? Well location agents are used a lot so that is BS, are they protection who there clients are, umm ok I can see that but still. It won't destroy crap on the other hand it will make the IPO 100000000 times stronger.
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Mung Lore
Supero Suius
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Posted - 2007.07.02 19:10:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Mung Lore on 02/07/2007 19:11:55 Edited by: Mung Lore on 02/07/2007 19:10:19
Originally by: Shar Tegral
Originally by: Mung Lore You do know you can view more than 1000 right? you can view ALL everything 6000, 7000, your not limited by the first 1000.
Ooooooooh you sounded so firm and authoritative that I got a warm shudder up my spine. Then I realized that you were demonstrating cluelessness again. You can not view entry 1001 if it is more than a week old. So, to have clean books have 1000 clean transactions in a week. Viola... you may commence scamming.
I'm just going to stop and point you to this. I'm also going to say stupid people need to stop posting when they know they have no idea what they are talking about.
http://myeve.eve-online.com/api/doc/data-account.asp
Quote: The journal is configured to provide up to 1000 entries per request. It is also configured to allow you to view up to one week's worth of data. If the first 1000 entries you view stretch back further than a week, then you will not need to do any walking. However, if you have enough entries in your journal that 1000 is less than a week, you can walk backwards in the log to get more data.
Walking is performed by specifying the beforeRefID parameter as the lowest refID you have seen so far. You will then get another page with entries. This process can be repeated until you have gone back a week. The server will return an error if you attempt to go back farther. Programmatically, it will be easiest to just loop while you are getting the max number of entries from the server, stopping when the server returns less than the max (i.e. you get 853 entries in a pull), the oldest entry is over a week old, or the server returns an error.
I'm a computer programming IRL so you can't tell me it can't be done, I will prove you wrong its my just to view and read everything I can on new programming tech, API's are no different I know everything they can and can't do.
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2007.07.02 19:19:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Mung Lore
Quote: The journal is configured to provide up to 1000 entries per request. It is also configured to allow you to view up to one week's worth of data. If the first 1000 entries you view stretch back further than a week, then you will not need to do any walking. However, if you have enough entries in your journal that 1000 is less than a week, you can walk backwards in the log to get more data.
Walking is performed by specifying the beforeRefID parameter as the lowest refID you have seen so far. You will then get another page with entries. This process can be repeated until you have gone back a week. The server will return an error if you attempt to go back farther. Programmatically, it will be easiest to just loop while you are getting the max number of entries from the server, stopping when the server returns less than the max (i.e. you get 853 entries in a pull), the oldest entry is over a week old, or the server returns an error.
I'm a computer programming IRL so you can't tell me it can't be done
I hope you pay more attention to your memos at work than you do with the statements you yourself quote.
Muppet.
The Eve-Online forums may not have invented whining, but they sure have perfected it.
Shar Tegral> Well someone please say something quotable for this month!!!! |
Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2007.07.02 19:23:00 -
[54]
In simpler words:
If you have more than 1000 entries in a week you can pull all 1000. If you have 8000 entries in a week you can pull all 8000. If you have less than 1000 entries in a week you will still get 1000 entries... no matter how old they are.
The data-asp web page is not the only source of information on that. Try following the thread in the Tech Lab forum.
The Eve-Online forums may not have invented whining, but they sure have perfected it.
Shar Tegral> Well someone please say something quotable for this month!!!! |
LaVista Vista
Red Army Inc
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Posted - 2007.07.02 19:23:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Mung Lore I'm a computer programming IRL so you can't tell me it can't be done, I will prove you wrong its my just to view and read everything I can on new programming tech, API's are no different I know everything they can and can't do.
Hold on a minut. If your just as good in programming as writing on the forums, you must be pretty crap.
Im a programmer IRL too. So whats your point? And you must know that due to load management and security, theres things they just cant do.
CEO Of Red Army Inc. |
Ray McCormack
BIG
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Posted - 2007.07.02 19:24:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Mung Lore I'm also going to say stupid people need to stop posting when they know they have no idea what they are talking about.
I couldn't agree more, so please stop posting, Mung Lore.
| How To Afford A Tech II BPO | BMBE ISK Loans | |
Mung Lore
Supero Suius
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Posted - 2007.07.02 19:32:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Shar Tegral
Originally by: Mung Lore
Quote: The journal is configured to provide up to 1000 entries per request. It is also configured to allow you to view up to one week's worth of data. If the first 1000 entries you view stretch back further than a week, then you will not need to do any walking. However, if you have enough entries in your journal that 1000 is less than a week, you can walk backwards in the log to get more data.
Walking is performed by specifying the beforeRefID parameter as the lowest refID you have seen so far. You will then get another page with entries. This process can be repeated until you have gone back a week. The server will return an error if you attempt to go back farther. Programmatically, it will be easiest to just loop while you are getting the max number of entries from the server, stopping when the server returns less than the max (i.e. you get 853 entries in a pull), the oldest entry is over a week old, or the server returns an error.
I'm a computer programming IRL so you can't tell me it can't be done
I hope you pay more attention to your memos at work than you do with the statements you yourself quote.
Muppet.
dude your a moron a real moron, please reread that test it for your self. I mean its not hard.
I will spell it out for you kid..
ok if you only have 900 entry's, 300 1st week 600 2nd week, your 1st pull will be for the 1st week 300 entry's. You have to walk back to get the other 600 for the 2nd weeks.
Ok what if you have 2000 for the first week, well your first pull will be for the first 1000, your have to walk back the get the 2nd 1000.
.. You need to stop miss reading quotes and really need to stop trying to find something wrong with something I post, I think you have it really hard to face it that I'm right.. and your go down argue if water is wet or not with me until the end of earth to prove it.
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Mung Lore
Supero Suius
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Posted - 2007.07.02 19:37:00 -
[58]
oh before you post and argue water is wet...
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Balogh
Gallente Real-time EVE Stock Exchange
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Posted - 2007.07.02 20:34:00 -
[59]
Quoting the API documentation:
Quote: The journal is configured to provide up to 1000 entries per request. It is also configured to allow you to view up to one week's worth of data.
There are two rules governing the data output:
- Up to 1000 entries per request.
When there are more than 1000 entries for the last week, you can request batches of 1000 until you reach the end of the 7 day period.
- Up to one week's worth of data
To follow this rule, you can never retrieve data older than one week, even if that's only 500 entries, 100 entries or even one entry.
______________________________ Real-time EVE Stock Exchange, Blog |
Mung Lore
Supero Suius
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Posted - 2007.07.02 20:37:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Balogh Quoting the API documentation:
Quote: The journal is configured to provide up to 1000 entries per request. It is also configured to allow you to view up to one week's worth of data.
There are two rules governing the data output:
- Up to 1000 entries per request.
When there are more than 1000 entries for the last week, you can request batches of 1000 until you reach the end of the 7 day period.
- Up to one week's worth of data
To follow this rule, you can never retrieve data older than one week, even if that's only 500 entries, 100 entries or even one entry.
but yet, you can use walkback to view more then the 1000 entrys, per week limit. umm how do I know.. I must of tryed it.
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