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Triban
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Posted - 2007.07.05 02:36:00 -
[1]
And so I've come to the battleship stage of my life, but I have no clue which BS to pick. Can anyone give me any insight as to whether to pick the Maelstrom or the Tempest, compare for me as you will, and provide convincing arguments and facts. Thanks in advance!
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Gor Kraon
Minmatar Red Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.05 02:58:00 -
[2]
What do you want to do?
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Gavin Darklighter
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Posted - 2007.07.05 03:08:00 -
[3]
Maelstrom can gank and tank at the same time like pretty much no other ship, but alone it is defenseless as it cant tackle, ewar, or web its target to be able to track it; unless you fit mwd/web/scram/injector, in which case you are looking at a paper thin 2-slot tank.
Tempest on the other hand is much more agile, is able to tackle/web its target, has some nos to help it's tank/criple its target's, and has an extra mid slot that can be used for some ewar (such as a tracking disruptor).
In almost every situation the tempest is more useful. But if you are in a decent sized gang that already has more than enough tackle and ewar, the maelstrom can dish some serious hurt while tanking like crazy.
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Foulis
Minmatar Chosen Path FATAL Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.05 03:41:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Gavin Darklighter ...
A very succinct summation (gooo word of the day calendar).
I personally would go for the tempest in 9/10ths of the situations, as it is more flexible. The only time I would take the maelstrom is for PVE. ----
Originally by: Nikolai Nuvolari NO WORDS IN THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE ARE SPELLED WITH THE NUMBER "8" IN THEM GODDAMNIT!
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Incantare
Caldari Darkness Inc.
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Posted - 2007.07.05 03:53:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Incantare on 05/07/2007 03:53:50
In a decent sized gang I would pick a Mael every time.
More gank, more tank, and most importantly it actually looks good.
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Triban
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Posted - 2007.07.05 03:54:00 -
[6]
Well I want to be able to do L4s and rat easily, but also have pvp viability. Most of my pvp will be gang pvp however, and I would fit the Battleship as a sniper boat with Artillery Cannons.
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Redora
Gallente Minmatar Ship Construction Services
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Posted - 2007.07.05 04:06:00 -
[7]
I'd go Maelstrom then. I've had no difficulties fitting my Mael for PvE (A full rack of T1 Arty fits without any fitting mods in place if you've got AWU 3 and Engineering 5, you only need 1 PDU for the Heavy Injector + XL Shield Booster), and with sniper kit and a full rack of guns it'll outdamage the 'pest. ---
Redora
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=543553 |
Audri Fisher
Caldari VentureCorp Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2007.07.05 05:36:00 -
[8]
I have seen the maelstrum used with devistating effect as an AutoCannon boat, with an MWD + shield tank in mids, and damage mods and inertial stabs in lows. My personal opinion is that you set up ships to play to there streanghs, and with few exceptions, tackling is definatly not a Battleships strong suit, they lock to slow, to slow to turn around, to easily outrun, and to correct these deficiencies, you have to devote way to many slots to do what other ships do far better.
Intercepters, Assault frigates, and especialy vagabonds, make excellents tacklers. In a small gang fight, Battlships are there to bring firepower in a packgage that is not easily removed from the battlfield. To this end, Tempest, malestroms, Armageddons, rail rohks/ megas, and abbadons are your best bet. Notice I did not include blaster ships. the reason is simple, Blaster ships burn up mnore time ( and therefore dps) getting in range, than they do actually fighting when there are more than 1-2 targets to be called. Even abbadons don't cap out as a blaster mega running from one primary to the other 25km away. Dominexes drones take to long to travel from one target to another, although they are a great support killer. Ravens do to little dps, and it is delayed.
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king jks
The Nine Gates Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2007.07.05 07:57:00 -
[9]
8x 800mm II
XL II 2x invuln II EM II heavy injector II disruptor II/another hardener/sensor booster
IFFA DC 3x gyro 1x whatever you can fit
2x falloff rigs
should fit very comfortably with lots of PG extra, and you get something silly like 43km falloff with maxed falloff skill and barrage.
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PWNERIZE
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Posted - 2007.07.05 08:01:00 -
[10]
[nitpick] Three falloff rigs [/nitpick]
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Natsuki
Caldari Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.07.05 09:34:00 -
[11]
The tempest is much better solo, as you get the same DPS but with 2 utility slots. -----------------------------------
btw, threatening to close 1 account really hurt my eyes. - xaioguai |
Horus Dark
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Posted - 2007.07.05 09:50:00 -
[12]
Solo -->tempest
For fleet --> tempest
gangs --> maelstrom
why? Tempest is an armor tank and cheaper.
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Kateryne
Minmatar KAOS. KA0S Theory
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Posted - 2007.07.05 09:57:00 -
[13]
I seriously don't get how people can think tempest gives you the same DPS. Assuming battleship level 5 then: Tempest = 6 guns + a pair of 25% weapon bonuses, or +50% = effectively 9 guns before damage mods Maelstrom = 8 guns + a single 25% bonus = effectively 10 guns before damage mods
Both of them have the ability to fit 3 damage mods, a damage control, and then an assortment of tracking gear, but the maelstrom can then also fit a much tougher tank, has a bigger drone AND contrary to popular belief, is almost as agile (taking like 1 second more to align from scratch, it's really not much).
Downsides to the maelstrom: it costs a bit more... well if you shouldn't be flying BS if you don't have a good income, and last i looked Maelstroms sell for below platinum insurance payout, so there's no real reason to go for the Tempest unless you are one of the strange solo playing types that seem to frequent MMORPGs more and more lately!
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Sokratesz
Paradox v2.0 Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.07.05 10:04:00 -
[14]
Maelstrom is actually cheaper than a pest after insurance.
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Fenren
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Posted - 2007.07.05 10:09:00 -
[15]
even considering 2 extra T2 1400mm artys?
Originally by: CCP Ginger Hello!
Ships have crews, most pod controlled frigates do not, above that they have crews of varying sizes. Hope that helps.
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Kagura Nikon
Minmatar Guardians of the Dawn Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.07.05 11:03:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Fenren even considering 2 extra T2 1400mm artys?
Maesl will usually have 800MM ac
Maesl can easily be defeated by any use of ewar, is nota fast locker, is big as a mountain so easy to hit when comapared to tempest.
But if you are in gang and your only role is dish out DPS on medium range level while being invulnerable to all but the most relentless assaults.. the maesltrong is king.
Absolutely NO SHIP in game can cover a range of 40 km with so high firepower (and good damage type) and sustainign such huge tank at same time. All that keepign ALL its cap for the tank.
If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough |
Fenren
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Posted - 2007.07.05 11:07:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Kagura Nikon
Originally by: Fenren even considering 2 extra T2 1400mm artys?
Maesl will usually have 800MM ac
Maesl can easily be defeated by any use of ewar, is nota fast locker, is big as a mountain so easy to hit when comapared to tempest.
But if you are in gang and your only role is dish out DPS on medium range level while being invulnerable to all but the most relentless assaults.. the maesltrong is king.
Absolutely NO SHIP in game can cover a range of 40 km with so high firepower (and good damage type) and sustainign such huge tank at same time. All that keepign ALL its cap for the tank.
I was talking about the price of it compared to the pest for fleet battles.
it is really good in gangs with a ac setup, yes. and shieldtankers in general are well suited for gangs, as long as you have good tacklers.
Originally by: CCP Ginger Hello!
Ships have crews, most pod controlled frigates do not, above that they have crews of varying sizes. Hope that helps.
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Xoduse
Gallente Beasts of Burden YouWhat
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Posted - 2007.07.05 11:46:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Audri Fisher
To this end, Tempest, malestroms, Armageddons, rail rohks/ megas, and abbadons are your best bet. Notice I did not include blaster ships. the reason is simple, Blaster ships burn up mnore time ( and therefore dps) getting in range, than they do actually fighting when there are more than 1-2 targets to be called. Even abbadons don't cap out as a blaster mega running from one primary to the other 25km away. Dominexes drones take to long to travel from one target to another, although they are a great support killer. Ravens do to little dps, and it is delayed.
I'd take a Megathron sporting null over a rail mega anyday, since most mid size pvp takes place at close range and not 100km+
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Xthril Ranger
hirr Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.07.05 11:54:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Kateryne I seriously don't get how people can think tempest gives you the same DPS. Assuming battleship level 5 then: Tempest = 6 guns + a pair of 25% weapon bonuses, or +50% = effectively 9 guns before damage mods Maelstrom = 8 guns + a single 25% bonus = effectively 10 guns before damage mods
time for a math course
6*1.25= 7.5 7.5/0.75 = 10 . you'll never jump alone
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Kagura Nikon
Minmatar Guardians of the Dawn Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.07.05 12:37:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Xthril Ranger
Originally by: Kateryne I seriously don't get how people can think tempest gives you the same DPS. Assuming battleship level 5 then: Tempest = 6 guns + a pair of 25% weapon bonuses, or +50% = effectively 9 guns before damage mods Maelstrom = 8 guns + a single 25% bonus = effectively 10 guns before damage mods
time for a math course
6*1.25= 7.5 7.5/0.75 = 10
Now you fail at your own lesson:
Tempest= 6*1.25=7.5 =. 7.5/0.75=10 Maesltrom= 8/0.75 =10.666
Also... how many times you see a tempest with 3 Gyros? Not very often, while maesltrom you will always see them with 3 or 4 !!! Gyros!
If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough |
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Kagura Nikon
Minmatar Guardians of the Dawn Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.07.05 12:39:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Kagura Nikon on 05/07/2007 12:42:50
Originally by: Xoduse
Originally by: Audri Fisher
To this end, Tempest, malestroms, Armageddons, rail rohks/ megas, and abbadons are your best bet. Notice I did not include blaster ships. the reason is simple, Blaster ships burn up mnore time ( and therefore dps) getting in range, than they do actually fighting when there are more than 1-2 targets to be called. Even abbadons don't cap out as a blaster mega running from one primary to the other 25km away. Dominexes drones take to long to travel from one target to another, although they are a great support killer. Ravens do to little dps, and it is delayed.
I'd take a Megathron sporting null over a rail mega anyday, since most mid size pvp takes place at close range and not 100km+
Well with rails you can use short range T2 ammo and still have better range... and when needed.. change to medium and long range. Its simply more versatile. On a rokh i would prefer Blasters with Null, for sure.
If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough |
Gavin Darklighter
The Burning Orphans Exuro Mortis
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Posted - 2007.07.05 12:41:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Xthril Ranger
Originally by: Kateryne I seriously don't get how people can think tempest gives you the same DPS. Assuming battleship level 5 then: Tempest = 6 guns + a pair of 25% weapon bonuses, or +50% = effectively 9 guns before damage mods Maelstrom = 8 guns + a single 25% bonus = effectively 10 guns before damage mods
time for a math course
6*1.25= 7.5 7.5/0.75 = 10
Tempest is 6 * (1.25 damage bonus) / (.75 rof bonus) = 10 Mael is...... 8 / (.75 rof bonus) = 10.7
So, they are both about the same, but the Mael can fit 3x damage mods without sacrificing tank, while the tempest will usualy fit one gyrostab at most. Also, the Mael has a bit more drone space, and can field 4x Ogre IIs, that adds a bit of dps compared to the tempest as well. Finaly, the Mael has so much extra grid after fitting 800mm ACs that it can run 3x falloff rigs without needing an RCU, so it is able to get better damage at range than the tempest.
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Xthril Ranger
hirr Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.07.05 12:47:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Xthril Ranger on 05/07/2007 12:47:33
Originally by: Kagura Nikon Now you fail at your own lesson:
Hey , I was never one of those that said maelstrom dps = tempest dps. I don't want that on my reputation. . you'll never jump alone
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Fenren
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Posted - 2007.07.05 13:39:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Xthril Ranger Edited by: Xthril Ranger on 05/07/2007 12:47:33
Originally by: Kagura Nikon Now you fail at your own lesson:
Hey , I was never one of those that said maelstrom dps = tempest dps. I don't want that on my reputation.
no but your math is incorrect
and without damage mods, they are quite equal only a minor bonus for the mael (if tempest doesnt use missiles as well)
Originally by: CCP Ginger Hello!
Ships have crews, most pod controlled frigates do not, above that they have crews of varying sizes. Hope that helps.
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Vantras
Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.05 14:11:00 -
[25]
As has been stated here several times..
Tempest is more versatile in terms of a solo ship and i reckon for fleet fights but in a gang of say...2-15 nothing quite matches a well tanked Maelstrom with falloff rigs and barrage.
This thing lands on the battlefield with a THUNK and doesnt leave. The damage from a full rack of 800 tech2 ac's with three gyros is staggering. The tank that you can run across the mid slots is fantastic! The fall off is in the 50's with the rigs. No need for a speed mod in 90% of the fights.
Flying solo-leave the Maelstrom at home (heck leave the bship at home)...flying in a gang-the Maelstrom is simply awesome!
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Tearvygh Quillam
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Posted - 2007.07.05 15:16:00 -
[26]
Originally by: king jks 8x 800mm II
XL II 2x invuln II EM II heavy injector II disruptor II/another hardener/sensor booster
IFFA DC 3x gyro 1x whatever you can fit
2x falloff rigs
should fit very comfortably with lots of PG extra, and you get something silly like 43km falloff with maxed falloff skill and barrage.
3 letters: MWD .
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Tearvygh Quillam
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Posted - 2007.07.05 15:17:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Tearvygh Quillam on 05/07/2007 15:16:54
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Kagura Nikon
Minmatar Guardians of the Dawn Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.07.05 15:20:00 -
[28]
50 Km fallof means = NO NEED FOR MWD!!!!
If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough |
Tearavygh Quillam
Caldari Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.05 15:22:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Kagura Nikon 50 Km fallof means = NO NEED FOR MWD!!!!
Just tell that to your FC when you land 30km from a gate in a dictor bubble... what a joy...
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Audri Fisher
Caldari VentureCorp Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2007.07.05 15:39:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Tearvygh Quillam
Originally by: king jks 8x 800mm II
XL II 2x invuln II EM II heavy injector II disruptor II/another hardener/sensor booster
IFFA DC 3x gyro 1x whatever you can fit
2x falloff rigs
should fit very comfortably with lots of PG extra, and you get something silly like 43km falloff with maxed falloff skill and barrage.
3 letters: MWD .
drop the em shield hardener,a nd put a propulsion mod in there, put an em shield hardener in your last rig slot. yes, your em will suffer a bit, but I tend to think the MWD + sensor booster is very important in gangs.
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