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Drakus
Minmatar Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.07.05 16:27:00 -
[1]
Now, just something that i wanted to ask the rest of you, mainly because what i see i consider to be pretty stupid.
People that try and make there sell orders the cheapest in the entire region vs in there system.
Now, what i mean is someone that sees (for example) Cap recharger 2's for sale at 3m in the system they are selling, but its selling for 2.5m next door. So instead of selling at .01isk less then the 3m, they sell at 1isk less then the 2.5m price.
Now, its good because it makes them be the cheapest in the region BUT both systems have very active markets. So (from what i have seen) most people prefer to buy items from the station they are in vs. running to another system. So all they are doing is costing themselves the 500k per trade.
So, does this seem like a smart business manuver? or is this done by someone who is not paying attention to the local market and community?
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2007.07.05 16:36:00 -
[2]
There is no real explanation why any of us price the way we do. We just do it according to rules and formulae that we think applies to this current situation. Which is a form of delusion since we only know what we are doing and not what any one else is doing.
So yes to both. We are all smartly silly.
The Eve-Online forums may not have invented whining, but they sure have perfected it.
Shar Tegral> Well someone please say something quotable for this month!!!! |
Block Ukx
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Posted - 2007.07.05 16:47:00 -
[3]
I donĘt know why people do it, but how about doing an experiment. Place an order in two systems 10 items each. A sell order for the lowest price in the station. Another order in another system (maybe 1J away) for the lowest price in the region. Tell us what you find. Which item sold fastest? What volume? Could volume justify its lower selling price?
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Jennai
The Silent Rage R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.07.05 17:46:00 -
[4]
I priced my battleships at lowest Oursulaert price even if there were some for a few mil cheaper 3 jumps away in Luminaire, and mine still sold faster than the others because no one goes to Luminaire.
however someone in Oursulaert would always undercut the Lumi price so it didn't make much difference in the long run.
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FastLearner
Fury Holdings Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2007.07.05 19:22:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Drakus Now, just something that i wanted to ask the rest of you, mainly because what i see i consider to be pretty stupid.
People that try and make there sell orders the cheapest in the entire region vs in there system.
Now, what i mean is someone that sees (for example) Cap recharger 2's for sale at 3m in the system they are selling, but its selling for 2.5m next door. So instead of selling at .01isk less then the 3m, they sell at 1isk less then the 2.5m price.
Now, its good because it makes them be the cheapest in the region BUT both systems have very active markets. So (from what i have seen) most people prefer to buy items from the station they are in vs. running to another system. So all they are doing is costing themselves the 500k per trade.
So, does this seem like a smart business manuver? or is this done by someone who is not paying attention to the local market and community?
It's very situational. In your example, there's a huge difference in how I'd the view the system if the one next door was low-sec as opposed to being a trade hub. There's also a big difference if the cost of the item to you is 1.5 mill or if it's 2.4 million.
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Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2007.07.05 20:45:00 -
[6]
Sounds like the moves of a manufacture attempting to snuff out competition. No offense to you guys who produce stuff, but you all make some of the dumbest pricing moves I've ever seen.
It also however could be a savy trader attempting to lower total market price across the entire region then attempting to buy up the entire lot and resell at inflated prices before any manufacturers can catch up to fill the void in supply.
Which it is... is mostly a guess however you can get a good feel for which is which.....take a look at the run time for the item in question. Chances are low run times indicated the former while long run time items indicate the latter. |
Qaeded
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Posted - 2007.07.06 01:13:00 -
[7]
Don't forget turnover. Turning over all your product in a short period of time can net huge returns since you can almost immediately reinvest the proceeds into more product.
For example, 7 consecutive daily cycles of 110% return on investments nets anywhere from 170% to 195% return on investment per week, depending on how much of the profit is reinvested into product.
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Ulrich Sternaxe
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Posted - 2007.07.06 10:18:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Ulrich Sternaxe on 06/07/2007 10:23:22
Originally by: Shar Tegral There is no real explanation why any of us price the way we do. We just do it according to rules and formulae that we think applies to this current situation. Which is a form of delusion since we only know what we are doing and not what any one else is doing.
Well that's the trick isn't it, trying to stand in the shoes of your buyer and finding out what he's doing, why, when and how.
But the OP is right, it makes no sense putting up sell orders for the lowest region price if your buyer won't mind paying a little extra to avoid having to jump around to get everything they want. So in trade hubs where lots of goods are available to get the complete set of products a buyer needs, you can always set a higher price than in low-traffic systems where not everything is available and buyers are more likely to travel to other systems if things are cheaper there.
For example, most buyers won't go 5 jumps to save 500K ISK on a 50 million ship if they know they'll have to travel back again to fill the ship with mods because those mods aren't available where the ship is. Even if the mods were available, they still probably don't want to travel 5 jumps for 500K ISK saved. If it's 1 jump, some might, others don't.
This counts for buy orders as well, sometimes I see people putting up mineral buy orders in jita 4 moon 4 at a higher price than other stations in jita while the highest buy orders in jita 4 moon 4 are much lower (creating a price gap between buy orders at moon 4), which is just totally unnessecary because the buy orders in jita 4 moon 4 will get filled whether they are the highest in the system or not, they will always fill quicker than the buy orders at other stations in jita.
signature: private investors wanted - 8% fixed return per month (30.5 days) |
Heikki
Gallente Wreckless Abandon Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.07.06 10:27:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Drakus seem like a smart business manuver
How about a rule-of-thumb test?
- If it is profitable for you to insta-buy them all and relist at higher price, it probably was dump move by the seller - If it merely frustrates you, might have been a good one
-Lasse who merely sells loot for cheap
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Daeva Vios
Ardent Adversary
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Posted - 2007.07.06 11:49:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Daeva Vios on 06/07/2007 11:50:23 There are plenty of strategic benefits to some of the really weird prices you see being put up. On the other hand, it can really snap back and bite you hard when another producer/trader sees what you're doing and can do you one better.
It might seem stupid, and I'm certain in some cases it is stupid, but I'm also fairly certain that much of the time the person placing the order has calculated the risk very closely and is pulling some kind of maneuver that you're just not considering.
Sometimes people forget that the Market, as with every single form of player interaction, is PVP too, and everyone taking part in it has their own strategies.
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Matthew
Caldari BloodStar Technologies
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Posted - 2007.07.06 12:13:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Drakus So, does this seem like a smart business manuver? or is this done by someone who is not paying attention to the local market and community?
The answer to this question all depends on how much value the buyers put on Location as a differentiating factor. A logical customer might calculate this as:
acceptable locational markup <= cost of moving items
where
cost of moving items = time taken to move * players income per unit time + risk factor
Time taken to move will depend on the skills and ship of the buyer, the number of jumps to cover and the volume of the goods. The risk factor would reflect the chance of losing the goods en-route. Players income will again depend on the player.
The real trouble with deciding on a locational markup is that so much of the equation depends on your buyer. Someone just out of the tutorial might be willing to travel several jumps to save himself 100k. For a 3-year vet, with a much higher earning potential, it would be a complete waste of time to make that journey. The trick is to decide what sort of customers you'll be getting at your location, which means being familiar with what's in your general area.
Of course, this is further complicated by the fact that not all buyers will behave in a logical manner. Some will be so tight that they'll travel to the cheapest order no-matter where it is. Some will be so lazy that they'll pay through the nose not to have to haul.
So in that context, whether it's a good move or not depends entirely on the accuracy of your observation:
Originally by: Drakus So (from what i have seen) most people prefer to buy items from the station they are in vs. running to another system.
If that is true for this product, then you're right in questioning their pricing. However, they have probably done it because they believe that not to be true. Which may or may not be a valid conclusion drawn from their experience of how quickly their orders clear at various prices.
Unfortunately, there is no answer we can say with certainty is "right" in this situation - there's simply no way to collect all the data needed to base such a judgement on. Each trader will make their own assumptions, and their decisions will be "right" within the constraints of those assumptions. ------- There is no magic Wand of Fixing, and it is not powered by forum whines. |
Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2007.07.06 13:43:00 -
[12]
With all the replies I restate my original statement earlier in the thread. We all have equally valid, and ergo equally silly/insane, methods of determining how we do things.
In the end, why ask why?
There is no good answer and it doesn't matter.
The Eve-Online forums may not have invented whining, but they sure have perfected it.
Misanthropy: It's not just for Rednecks! |
Vorketh Mordanil
Amarr Brotherhood of Acquisitions
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Posted - 2007.07.06 14:15:00 -
[13]
It really has everything to do with target market. Given that the items are tech 2 cap rechargers, those aren't particularly high skilled items, and named are better in fitting and cost more. I'm assuming then that the target market is a younger player - not new, and no vet. 500k for one jump is something that player may easily do.
I think the guy's got it right - he just understands his target market. Best named... probably would do fine just beating the system or station. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Drethon
Gallente Selinir Industries
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Posted - 2007.07.06 17:20:00 -
[14]
If an item has low volumes I've found that being lowest in the region can be best, otherwise it doesn't sell faster except when lowest in the system is higher than people want to pay for. I'm only dealing in frig stuff right now so larger equipment may be different.
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Terminus adacai
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.07.07 03:49:00 -
[15]
I determine my pricing by market trends. A lot of people never use the Price History tab right next to the Market Data tab. I find it best to see what the regional average is and then take a look at buy and sell orders for the given item.
You also have to take into account the number of players that average out in local of the intended station to place your items for sale. If you have a system that routinely carries 80-120 pilots at any given time, you more then likely can place the item for sale at above the region average.
It really depends on the buy orders that are out there as well. A ridiculous buy order that is getting hits will lower the average.
You'll also have mining corps that produce and place no value on their time. They simply undercut the lowest volume seller with no regard to mineral costs and slot time. They would be better off just selling the minerals outright.
Opinions reflected on my posts are just that, my opinions. They do not reflect views held by my corp or alliance. |
Shadarle
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Posted - 2007.07.07 07:22:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Heikki
Originally by: Drakus seem like a smart business manuver
How about a rule-of-thumb test?
- If it is profitable for you to insta-buy them all and relist at higher price, it probably was dump move by the seller - If it merely frustrates you, might have been a good one
-Lasse who merely sells loot for cheap
I like this statement quite a bit.
But even if it was worth it for someone to re-buy it doesn't mean the initial seller was stupid. I, for example, sell so many items every day that I don't have time to micro manage which system an item is in and price it accordingly. Easier to make all prices in the region the same... perhaps 2 tiers (small systems/large systems if it's a high volume item). This cuts off a LOT of time. Saving myself 30-60 minutes is worth losing a few million ISK over the course of a day... even 10-20 mill is not a big deal if it saves me that much time. I'd rather sell for 1-2 mill less on a 100 mil item and sell it quickly as long as im selling for a profit.
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