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Taikun
Gallente Serenity Prime Praesidium Libertatis
|
Posted - 2007.07.07 19:59:00 -
[91]
Edited by: Taikun on 07/07/2007 20:01:33
Originally by: Gaius Sejanus
Quote: NOTHING could prevent what I described in my OP
Yea, it really doesn't help when you just lie like this.
There is something that would prevent this: Typing the original price in correctly.
Unlesss you're going to try to make some really outlandish claim that it is the least bit common to be pressing enter (accidently or otherwise) while in the process of typing out a price, there is in fact something you could have done to prevent it.
DING DING DING DING
Wow.. he calls me a liar and goes on to repeat the very secenerio I was talking about. (AND have proven to happen on many occasions to happen in game)
You are a complete tool sir. Your post proves this completely.
How can you enter the correct price while right in the middle of typing it, your item sells? How can you check your price if the item has already sold while typing in the price? How can you review the warning box if one never is presented to you at all?
Thats right... you can't. all because the warning box defaults to yes rather than no.
Oh and to the bright spark who suggested to make the text bigger in the warning box. You're an idiot for not reading my post.
YOU NEVER SEE THE WARNING BOX FOLKS.
YOU CAN'T REVIEW YOUR PRICE BECAUSE THE ITEM IS ALREADY SOLD BEFORE YOU ARE FINISHED TYPING THE PRICE IN.
Now all of you THINK before you confirm beyond all doubt you are morons by posting the user is 'lazy' for not reviewing the price or ignoring the warning box.
Taikun -----------------------------------
For lack of a better word ladies and gentlemen... Greed is good. |
Taikun
Gallente Serenity Prime Praesidium Libertatis
|
Posted - 2007.07.07 20:10:00 -
[92]
Edited by: Taikun on 07/07/2007 20:13:47 Edited by: Taikun on 07/07/2007 20:10:59
Originally by: Shar Tegral
Originally by: Shadarle Laziness/Stupidity are the fault of the user, not CCP. Having crappy hardware is the fault of the user, not CCP. Dropping things on your keyboard is the fault of the user, not CCP. Having a keyboard that sends multiple return keystrokes when you only hit the key one time is the fault of the user, not CCP. Hitting return twice in a row by mistake is the fault of the user, not CCP.
Well at least here is a counter-argument at least. Of course I don't think anyone is accusing CCP of being at fault except perhaps the op. Like I've said, it's illogical for a warning pop up to have the default option of changing the status quo.
I am blaming them for a f-ed up user interface coded with no thought process.
I never asked for anything back based upon any of my market transactions.
Thread trolls like Shadarle have admitted to exploiting the VERY THING I posted about in my OP.
They are making isk via this method by praying on market users who mistype, and the unwary.
They don't want it changed because it would cut into their profit margin based upon crap coding... or in other words... exploiting a quirk of the game.
Thats right. I call folks who place region wide buy orders for things under mineral / manufacture cost and compete with each other for top slot... EXPLOITERS of game mechanics.
They are CCP supported and exploit game mechanics putting an order out knowing full well that they will NEVER have to pay what they are offering. They wait for someone to make a mistake typing and have the UI warning box fail.
THESE cheaters are using a game flaw to steal isk from unsuspecting people.
yes yes... very clear to me now why folsk like Shadarle and kind are trolling, changing the subject, de-railing the issue.
They are ****ed their business model has come under scrutiny.
Taikun -----------------------------------
For lack of a better word ladies and gentlemen... Greed is good. |
Brain Day
Captain Morgan Society
|
Posted - 2007.07.07 20:12:00 -
[93]
Please people, for all that is sane in this world, let this trolling maniac, and this pointless thread, die. Is this a sig or the next line in the post? WHO KNOWS. |
Taikun
Gallente Serenity Prime Praesidium Libertatis
|
Posted - 2007.07.07 20:18:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Brain Day Please people, for all that is sane in this world, let this trolling maniac, and this pointless thread, die.
Who invited you? Don't like the thread? Don't read it. Nothing forced to you reply. Might I suggest that you go eat dirt and play in the back yard by yourself. Either way pack up and dont come back.
Taikun -----------------------------------
For lack of a better word ladies and gentlemen... Greed is good. |
Shadarle
|
Posted - 2007.07.07 21:01:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Shar Tegral
Originally by: Shadarle Laziness/Stupidity are the fault of the user, not CCP. Having crappy hardware is the fault of the user, not CCP. Dropping things on your keyboard is the fault of the user, not CCP. Having a keyboard that sends multiple return keystrokes when you only hit the key one time is the fault of the user, not CCP. Hitting return twice in a row by mistake is the fault of the user, not CCP.
Well at least here is a counter-argument at least. Of course I don't think anyone is accusing CCP of being at fault except perhaps the op. Like I've said, it's illogical for a warning pop up to have the default option of changing the status quo.
It's incongruous and very minor imho. The change makes sense regardless of the patterns that people have developed.
(For the record: I've been playing since long before the pop up ever existed so I'm hyper paranoid over entering the price correctly the first time.)
The OP is exactly saying CCP is at fault. He wants someone to lose their job over this. He wants horrible things to befall the person responsible. The only thing he doesn't realize is HE is the person responsible, not someone at CCP.
He is also a troll who doesn't respond to posts, simply attacks and insults. If he really cared about this he would try to explain how owning a crappy keyboard or dropping something on your keyboard is somehow the fault of CCP. He can't do that though, so he blames the interface for his own mistake.
This is NOT an interface issue. I will never say EVE has a great interface, in fact it has a been darn awful one. But in this case the interface is really not so bad. It lists a lot of information quickly and is easy to see if you've screwed something up. It even gives a warning if you do something stupid. It's one of the only cases I can point to in EVE that is sufficient.
If you want to complain about something then complain about the horrendous drone interface. Or the lack of a quickbar in contracts or folders in the market quickbar or the constant refreshes after 2 modifications of orders or the lag.
And to your point that the change makes sense Shar. I don't see how it makes sense to make this a NO by default. It basically is a "IS THIS CORRECT?" pop up. In 99% of cases it is correct, heck it's probably closer to 99.99% of cases. Thus the default should be YES. It is correct as is and shouldn't be changed. Changing it would only add an amazing amount of annoyance to any heavy trader in order to protect the incredibly lazy/clumsy/those with crappy keyboards.
The ISK I've made from such mistakes is a tiny tiny fraction of my ISK. So small I wouldn't even notice if it was gone. However, the added time I'd have to spend if this change was implemented would add quite a bit of time every day to my trading session. I don't think I should be penalized because of other peoples ineptitude.
Tanking Setups Compared
Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained |
Taikun
Gallente Serenity Prime Praesidium Libertatis
|
Posted - 2007.07.07 21:18:00 -
[96]
Edited by: Taikun on 07/07/2007 21:23:16
Originally by: Shadarle The ISK I've made from such mistakes is a tiny tiny fraction of my ISK.
Wonderful. You agree that you engage in such actions.
Now because the world doesn't revolve around you, rather this issue effects EVERYONE in the game either buying or selling goods EACH and EVERY time they open up the trade window.
Do the math.
30,000 people each buying a selling everyday hudreds of thousands of orders.
A small handful (you included) prey on those of us to get caught by bad interface design to take 100's of millions of isk off people who did nothing more than accidentally hit their keys while entering in a price.
The prevention by CCP was to put in a warning box which is NOT working as intended due to a poorly thought out GUI.
You steal isk off others and you try to justify it by saying "I set up these exploitive buy orders and don't want it fixed".
If you truely cared about "speeding up your trading" you would want the ability to turn this warning message off. But no, you want it kept just the way it is so you can keep on exploiting others. We know where you are coming from Shadarle and why you don't want this changed. It is VERY clear.
Taikun -----------------------------------
For lack of a better word ladies and gentlemen... Greed is good. |
Shar Tegral
|
Posted - 2007.07.07 22:33:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Shadarle I don't see how it makes sense to make this a NO by default. It basically is a "IS THIS CORRECT?" pop up. In 99% of cases it is correct, heck it's probably closer to 99.99% of cases. Thus the default should be YES.
Any time a human notifying error trap programmed it should have its default setting at keeping the status quo. If "is this correct" defaulting to "yes" maintained the status quo prior to the action, it would be congruous and proper. Originally by: Shadarle It is correct as is and shouldn't be changed. Changing it would only add an amazing amount of annoyance to any heavy trader in order to protect the incredibly lazy/clumsy/those with crappy keyboards.
Two points: Firstly it is not just limited to such people. The error is possible from many sources (even if unlikely) besides your denigrating list of options here. Secondly, I'm a heavy trader too but that doesn't change the basic premises that any difficulty you encounter because you don't like something is tough cookies. You are basically saying Tough cookies to them and whine whine whine about your own situation. Originally by: Shadarle I don't think I should be penalized because of other peoples ineptitude.
I don't think a sensible ui tweak should be refused because of a few thick sods like yourself (and the op for that matter). Btw I should point out that agreeing with the point of the OP does not make me like him. In fact I've gotten to the point of wanting to hunt him down in game. He's the biggest flame baiting troll in this thread and I think I need a flea dip having agreed with his position. But I'd like to point out: Originally by: Shar Tegral Of course I don't think anyone is accusing CCP of being at fault except perhaps the op.
Originally by: Shadarle The OP is exactly saying CCP is at fault. He wants someone to lose their job over this. He wants horrible things to befall the person responsible.
Just because I don't state any guess into how low the IQ of the op is or any other such attack doesn't mean I don't question his motives, his sanity, or his pedigree. I just haven't said anything. I simply think that he should be ignored, totally, as he's trying to wind people up as much as they have been trying to wind him up. They do prove one point: School holidays suck for people who don't have time for pointless drama games. In fact I'm mystified why this thread hasn't been shut down... meh.
The Eve-Online forums may not have invented whining, but they sure have perfected it.
Misanthropy: It's not just for Rednecks! |
Taikun
Gallente Serenity Prime Praesidium Libertatis
|
Posted - 2007.07.07 23:30:00 -
[98]
Edited by: Taikun on 07/07/2007 23:35:49 Edited by: Taikun on 07/07/2007 23:33:54
Originally by: Shar Tegral In fact I'm mystified why this thread hasn't been shut down... meh.[/justify]
Because at the heart of the matter I am 100% right. My original post points out a glaring flaw in the game and deserves to be aired.
Not only how to avoid it, but how to exploit it should you so desire.
All the trolls in this thread have attempted to cover up and hide this exploitive market practice in which they prey on unsuspecting traders.
They are ticked off I am showing how to take advantage of this game flaw and cut into their action. They are annoyed they are going to have to compete now with others who want to make coin using this game 'feature'.
My post serves as a warning to ALL who either buy or sell on the market.
You should THANK me for exposing people like Shadarle who takes perverse pleasure in stealing from others who have innocently fallen into a CCP coding trap.
Don't like my posting style? Boo freeking hoo. Don't respond to my threads.
Taikun
P.S. As for your threat to hunt me down in game because of my posts. You'd never survive it past a 0.4 system. BRING it on.
-----------------------------------
For lack of a better word ladies and gentlemen... Greed is good. |
Shadarle
|
Posted - 2007.07.08 01:18:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Shar Tegral [justify] Originally by: Shadarle I don't see how it makes sense to make this a NO by default. It basically is a "IS THIS CORRECT?" pop up. In 99% of cases it is correct, heck it's probably closer to 99.99% of cases. Thus the default should be YES.
Any time a human notifying error trap programmed it should have its default setting at keeping the status quo. If "is this correct" defaulting to "yes" maintained the status quo prior to the action, it would be congruous and proper.
I still don't understand this. Before the box was put in, if you hit enter the order is accepted. Adding that box shouldn't change that the expected outcome is for the order to be accepted. Thus, to me, the status quo is an accepted order. If 99.99% of cases result in a particular answer then that is the one that should be the default answer. Otherwise it's just an annoyance 99.99% of the time.
Originally by: Shar Tegral
Originally by: Shadarle It is correct as is and shouldn't be changed. Changing it would only add an amazing amount of annoyance to any heavy trader in order to protect the incredibly lazy/clumsy/those with crappy keyboards.
Two points: Firstly it is not just limited to such people. The error is possible from many sources (even if unlikely) besides your denigrating list of options here. Secondly, I'm a heavy trader too but that doesn't change the basic premises that any difficulty you encounter because you don't like something is tough cookies.
You are basically saying Tough cookies to them and whine whine whine about your own situation.
What other sources is the error possible from? The argument in this thread is that if you have a bad keyboard that double-sends RETURN or if you drop something on your keyboard or if you mistype your price and hit enter twice then you're screwed by this. The only other possible situation that could hurt you is lag... but I don't really see how still. Lag wouldn't hit enter twice for you still. And if you personally hit enter twice because you were impatient waiting for the lag then thats still user error. What other situations could cause this? And saying the game itself might magically create a 2nd RETURN command is not really a viable argument imo so I hope that isn't one of the possibilities.
This isn't just about me. It's about the vast majority of people who never encounter problems here compared to very small amount who do. The interface is not at fault here. If the interface isn't at fault then why should the interface be changed, especially when that change will make the interface harder to use.
I've seen no concrete reason why an extra step should be added here. I don't even see why the pop up box in question is in the game in the first place. To me it's already bloated... and making it even more bloated is not a good solution to make it better.
"Are you REALLY sure you want to submit this order?"
YES
"Are you REALLY REALLY sure you want to submit this order?
YES
"I just want to make sure that you want to submit this order. You REALLLLLLLLY want to? Hit NO if you mean YES and YES if you mean NO!"
GO TO HELL
"Order Complete"
Tanking Setups Compared
Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained |
Shar Tegral
|
Posted - 2007.07.08 02:04:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Shadarle I've seen no concrete reason why an extra step should be added here. I don't even see why the pop up box in question is in the game in the first place. To me it's already bloated... and making it even more bloated is not a good solution to make it better.
LOL, I remember many of the reasons why as I was there the minute some of those hilarious horror stories happened to people. Very funny material indeed. However it was decided that such stop gap measures were wise and were implemented. It only makes rational sense for the measure to be proper and complete. Again, I never noticed this myself before either. It's something that I've never encountered nor do I think I will. But that does not disqualify nor negate the nature of the situation. Just because it is not likely to be something concerning you does not mean it is a non-issue. And again, I only agree because the tweak is good ui design/process and that is all. (I'm not some bleeding heart here.) And again, to the op, you have made your point about the default position. Don't think that means because you got one thing right you are totally right. May I point out that the law of averages states the the dumbest people in the world is likely to be right some of the time. Ergo smart people are going to be wrong some of the time as well. (IMHO You've hit a combination of the two. What proportions you wish to dedcue is up to you.)
The Eve-Online forums may not have invented whining, but they sure have perfected it.
Misanthropy: It's not just for Rednecks! |
|
Taikun
Gallente Serenity Prime Praesidium Libertatis
|
Posted - 2007.07.08 02:28:00 -
[101]
Edited by: Taikun on 08/07/2007 02:31:04 Edited by: Taikun on 08/07/2007 02:29:27
Originally by: Shadarle I've seen no concrete reason why an extra step should be added here. I don't even see why the pop up box in question is in the game in the first place. To me it's already bloated... and making it even more bloated is not a good solution to make it better.
"Are you REALLY sure you want to submit this order?"
YES
"Are you REALLY REALLY sure you want to submit this order?
YES
"I just want to make sure that you want to submit this order. You REALLLLLLLLY want to? Hit NO if you mean YES and YES if you mean NO!"
GO TO HELL
"Order Complete"
Here we go. More proof of idiocy.
No one is asking for an 'extra step' in the process, just for the intended process to work right in the first place.
You are claiming that it is 'normal' that individuals enter trade transaction that are plus or minus 90% regional average and everything is 'working just peachy'.
To that I say will full emphasis that you are full of crap.
99.99% of the entire EvE population makes trades within the 'normal' spectrum of regional amounts. The warning window is there to protect them from making stupid trades... not accommodate morons like you who prey on the rest by making exploitive trades.
Your argument is flawed, selfish and ultimately WRONG.
-Flawed because you want fast trades but you dont want to remove the warning window... just click through it instead. Shouldn't want it to be disabled just like all the other warning windows?
-Selfish because your post has NO context for anyone else BUT yourself as an individual and to hell with the thousands of others who play EvE.
-Wrong because you claim that very few people have this happen to them. Well using that argument we should get rid of railway crossing lights because I mean really... compared to how many people use the roads nobody gets hit by a train.
You're not intellectually worthy of making trades on the market let alone have an opinion on this topic. You make THAT clear with your posts and understanding of this topic.
Taikun
-----------------------------------
For lack of a better word ladies and gentlemen... Greed is good. |
Taikun
Gallente Serenity Prime Praesidium Libertatis
|
Posted - 2007.07.08 02:29:00 -
[102]
Edited by: Taikun on 08/07/2007 02:28:47 Bah double post.
See it happens. -----------------------------------
For lack of a better word ladies and gentlemen... Greed is good. |
Terminus adacai
Caldari
|
Posted - 2007.07.08 03:01:00 -
[103]
This has gotten ridiculous beyond comprehension. The end result is that you are responsible for your own actions in game. This is not a "Glaring flaw" as you point out.
Since YOU entered the price and hit enter, why should the interface assume your next step is to cancel the transaction by default?
You get a warning in red text. If you hit enter again, so be it. SOLD!!
It's really simple.... enter your price and tab out of the price window and verify your price before hitting enter, or better yet, use your mouse.
As I stated earlier, your choice of words in the title of this thread left no obscurity. You blame CCP for a mistake that you made....
You also petitioned it and assumed you were correct that this was a bug.... Those of us that enter the correct price and verify it first don't want to have to grab the mouse to click on ok because you made a mistake and want the default action changed to cancel.....
As for orders on the market below mineral and manufacturing costs, WTH is your point? That is not an abuse or exploit of game mechanics....It is a free market. Does CCP need to come in and set base prices to make you happy next?
Maybe the market isn't for you.
Opinions reflected on my posts are just that, my opinions. They do not reflect views held by my corp or alliance. |
Shadarle
|
Posted - 2007.07.08 03:05:00 -
[104]
Changing the default from YES to NO is adding a step indeed.
Currently you can just double-tap enter if you know what you're doing. Or you can hit enter, look at the screen to verify, then hit enter again.
If it was changed to default as no, doing either of these would result in canceling the order.
Instead, you have to remove your hand from the keyboard and move it to the mouse. Or if your hand is already on the mouse then you still have to move the mouse over to the YES button and click it.
I can promise you that double-tapping enter is FAR faster than having to actually move the mouse to click on the right spot and clicking. At least a second or two difference. But it's not the second or two that is a big deal, it is the need to stop the flow of what you were doing in order to click instead of just tapping enter again. It's a pure annoyance, that is all.
I'd rather cry-babies would take their time, buy a working keyboard, and not drop things on their keyboards. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the game or the code. It works correctly. The only problem is with the USER in some cases. And in this case it is most definitely the users fault if this screws them. Survival of the fittest. The weakest, slowest, less intelligent of the heard are thinned out and the smartest, quickest, strongest survive. Or in this case are given free cash donations from people like Taikun.
Tanking Setups Compared
Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained |
Taikun
Gallente Serenity Prime Praesidium Libertatis
|
Posted - 2007.07.08 03:42:00 -
[105]
Originally by: Terminus adacai You get a warning in red text. If you hit enter again, so be it. SOLD!!
How many times does it have to be told to you. YOU DO NOT SEE ANY WARNING WHATSOEVER.
Do you have rocks in your head?
Taikun -----------------------------------
For lack of a better word ladies and gentlemen... Greed is good. |
Taikun
Gallente Serenity Prime Praesidium Libertatis
|
Posted - 2007.07.08 04:03:00 -
[106]
Edited by: Taikun on 08/07/2007 04:07:59 Edited by: Taikun on 08/07/2007 04:03:59
Originally by: Shadarle Changing the default from YES to NO is adding a step indeed.
Currently you can just double-tap enter if you know what you're doing. Or you can hit enter, look at the screen to verify, then hit enter again.
If it was changed to default as no, doing either of these would result in canceling the order.
Instead, you have to remove your hand from the keyboard and move it to the mouse. Or if your hand is already on the mouse then you still have to move the mouse over to the YES button and click it.
Ahhh so I see what you are saying. Because you, and ONLY you sells items that are under 90% regional market value on a regular basis, everyone else in the game can suck eggs.
And because you and only YOU regularly place regional market orders at 90% over and above regional market average, everyone else can suck eggs.
Riiiigggggghhhtttt...
You really don't have any idea how stupid you sound do you?
NOBODY believes for a second that you operate on the market in this fashion to such a degree that the warning box 'annoys' you.
Here are the types of INTENTIONAL trades you claim you are making on a daily basis:
Intentionally buy many megathrons for 1 billion? How about intentionally selling tritanium for 0.2 isk per unit?
You 'claim' this issue bothers you when in fact the only time it possibly could is if you are conducting yourself in a ill-logical market fashion.
You said:
Originally by: Shadarle I don't see how it makes sense to make this a NO by default. It basically is a "IS THIS CORRECT?" pop up. In 99% of cases it is correct, heck it's probably closer to 99.99% of cases. Thus the default should be YES.
So you claim the warning box usally pops up with the right price 99.99% of the time.
I think that statement alone tells everyone here that you are a troll and bad one at that.
Think that has been established now beyond any shadow of a doubt.
Taikun
-----------------------------------
For lack of a better word ladies and gentlemen... Greed is good. |
Terminus adacai
Caldari
|
Posted - 2007.07.08 04:07:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Taikun
Originally by: Terminus adacai You get a warning in red text. If you hit enter again, so be it. SOLD!!
How many times does it have to be told to you. YOU DO NOT SEE ANY WARNING WHATSOEVER.
Do you have rocks in your head?
Taikun
If it is 50% or more above or below the region average, you sure do.
If you are selling a megathron and accidentally enter 11,000,000.00, you will get red text, right next to the price field that states the price you entered is XX% below the region average.....................
Opinions reflected on my posts are just that, my opinions. They do not reflect views held by my corp or alliance. |
Taikun
Gallente Serenity Prime Praesidium Libertatis
|
Posted - 2007.07.08 04:11:00 -
[108]
Edited by: Taikun on 08/07/2007 04:11:47
Originally by: Terminus adacai
Originally by: Taikun
Originally by: Terminus adacai You get a warning in red text. If you hit enter again, so be it. SOLD!!
How many times does it have to be told to you. YOU DO NOT SEE ANY WARNING WHATSOEVER.
Do you have rocks in your head?
Taikun
If it is 50% or more above or below the region average, you sure do.
If you are selling a megathron and accidentally enter 11,000,000.00, you will get red text, right next to the price field that states the price you entered is XX% below the region average.....................
Sure... sure... now listen up... when you are typing that 'price' number in and accidentally it the enter key such that it registers twice... guess what. YOU DO NOT SEE THE WARNING BOX. EVER. NOT ONCE. NOT EVEN A FLASH OF A BOX. IT NEVER APPEARS.
This has been explained to you, shown, described, screencaped and walkthroughs posted several times. If you can not figure it out by now you are clearly mentally deficient.
Taikun -----------------------------------
For lack of a better word ladies and gentlemen... Greed is good. |
Terminus adacai
Caldari
|
Posted - 2007.07.08 04:12:00 -
[109]
Also wanted to add that you sure have a lot of hostility on these boards and have a knack for personal attacks...
Attacking other's that have a dissenting view is pretty sad. Calling everyone that has a counter argument a troll is kind of sad too....
Opinions reflected on my posts are just that, my opinions. They do not reflect views held by my corp or alliance. |
Taikun
Gallente Serenity Prime Praesidium Libertatis
|
Posted - 2007.07.08 04:14:00 -
[110]
Originally by: Terminus adacai Also wanted to add that you sure have a lot of hostility on these boards and have a knack for personal attacks...
Attacking other's that have a dissenting view is pretty sad. Calling everyone that has a counter argument a troll is kind of sad too....
Yo are not a disenting POV.
You are somebody who hasn't bothered to READ the op.
Go ahead and TRY reading it. Try selling a single tritanium for 0.1 isk.
TRY IT first and understand the issue before coming in here and spouting off that users are lazy or whatever.
Go on... I dare you.
Taikun -----------------------------------
For lack of a better word ladies and gentlemen... Greed is good. |
|
Terminus adacai
Caldari
|
Posted - 2007.07.08 04:16:00 -
[111]
Originally by: Taikun Edited by: Taikun on 08/07/2007 04:11:47
Originally by: Terminus adacai
Originally by: Taikun
Originally by: Terminus adacai You get a warning in red text. If you hit enter again, so be it. SOLD!!
How many times does it have to be told to you. YOU DO NOT SEE ANY WARNING WHATSOEVER.
Do you have rocks in your head?
Taikun
If it is 50% or more above or below the region average, you sure do.
If you are selling a megathron and accidentally enter 11,000,000.00, you will get red text, right next to the price field that states the price you entered is XX% below the region average.....................
Sure... sure... now listen up... when you are typing that 'price' number in and accidentally it the enter key such that it registers twice... guess what. YOU DO NOT SEE THE WARNING BOX. EVER. NOT ONCE. NOT EVEN A FLASH OF A BOX. IT NEVER APPEARS.
Taikun
Now you are changing your story that your one enter key depress registered twice? Before it was something fell on the keyboard....
I'm done with this thread.
WARNING: If you DO NOT agree with OP, do not post to this thread. You'll only be flamed, attacked and called ignorant by the OP.....
Opinions reflected on my posts are just that, my opinions. They do not reflect views held by my corp or alliance. |
Taikun
Gallente Serenity Prime Praesidium Libertatis
|
Posted - 2007.07.08 04:37:00 -
[112]
Edited by: Taikun on 08/07/2007 04:37:26
Originally by: Terminus adacai
Now you are changing your story that your one enter key depress registered twice? Before it was something fell on the keyboard....
I'm done with this thread.
HOLY SMOKES. Read my original post. The entire thing is explained there. A single keystroke can and does register 2 keystokes sometimes. Dropping things on keyboards will do it because it bounces. Lightly touching a key can register a double key stroke. Having a key stuck down momentarily will do it... and so on.
The issue is how the intferface deals with these situations. Not the bloody keystrokes themselves.
Gawd. What's wrong with you?
Taikun
-----------------------------------
For lack of a better word ladies and gentlemen... Greed is good. |
Investigador
Caldari Hator inc
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Posted - 2007.07.08 05:28:00 -
[113]
Edited by: Investigador on 08/07/2007 05:33:09 Edited by: Investigador on 08/07/2007 05:28:15 I want my warning boxes to default to "no". Letting people press enter twice to make their orders will just dumb down the game
Well, m ore seriously, most of my trades are inside the 10% margin to regional average, so I get the warning box unfrequently.
I press alt always to see the commas, but I never never press enter twice to make my trades, because I want to be warned if the game thinks I'm making a stupidity. Even if most of the time is just the regional average being borked.
Ridlic, notice that if the box defaults to "no", then (I think) you can press tab to move to the "yes" option. So you could issue your orders by pressing enter-alt-enter instead of enter-enter and be done with the warning.
And why not go to some real profesional advice:
Apple guidelines
"The action button is usually, but not always, the default button." So the CCP guys made it correctly by making the "yes" button the default, but they could change it.
Windows Vista guidelines
Windows Vista guidelines don't specify which one should be the default "command button" :(
Dang, I can find the Windows Guidelines for XP. Oh, whatever.
Taikun, read this pdf, pages 15 to 18. This will give you some ammo to counter people's arguments
Some PDF by a HCI researcher (HCI = Human Computer Interaction)
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Shadarle
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Posted - 2007.07.08 06:02:00 -
[114]
Originally by: Taikun A single keystroke can and does register 2 keystokes sometimes. Dropping things on keyboards will do it because it bounces. Lightly touching a key can register a double key stroke. Having a key stuck down momentarily will do it... and so on.
The issue is how the intferface deals with these situations. Not the bloody keystrokes themselves.
Gawd. What's wrong with you?
So you're saying if YOU, as a USER, drop something on the keyboard then the game is supposed to stop anything bad from possibly happening because YOU were clumsy?
You're also saying if you jam a key down that CCP is at fault?
And as to the lightly touching a key sending two signals.... I have no clue where you're coming from there. If I lightly touch any key on any of the 9 keyboards I have nearby then nothing at all happens. You have to apply a fair bit of force to get a key down... and if you hit it just enough to get the key down it responds as a single keystroke, not multiple. Unless of course you hold it down, which I just covered.
USER ERROR IS NOT CCP'S FAULT. But thank you for confirming your entire argument is bunk. Your only reasonable argument was that the GAME sometimes turns 1 enter press into 2. But now that you've fully admitted and even supplied as examples things that the USER does wrong then you've proven to everyone why this is not going to be changed.
The game never used to have a box at all. People managed to get by for the most part... but enough people whined and they got a box added. Now you're whining that 1 box isn't enough. Maybe CCP should add 10 boxes and call this game BOX-Online. Then you can drop 5 things on your keyboard and still complain.
And even if it was switched the way you want, defaulting to no, you'd find a way to argue that you dropped something on your keyboard that hit tab, then fell over and hit enter... thus screwing you again.
Your line of argument is purely based on anger due to your financial loss. You want someone to blame and are unwilling to place that blame where it belongs, on your own shoulders. Can you please tell us who you gave the money to accidentally so I can send that person some extra ISK for providing such a comedic response from you?
Tanking Setups Compared
Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained |
Ricdic
Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz
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Posted - 2007.07.08 06:11:00 -
[115]
Ok, my final post on the matter.
I had a good look at those pictures you posted. All of them bar one were at least 6 months ago. The only one that was recent, was the Myrmidon. Now I can see that this happens 'all the time' due to you mostly picking up old examples from 6+ months ago. Obviosly this is a large issue...
Anyway, having said that, the Myrmidon you have pointed out could very well have been the product of an ISK seller or ISK buyer, as this is sometimes the way they handle transactions. You can't use one recent example to prove a point of an issue that is at such a high demand level that you are trying to prove.
So, if this truly is a major issue, I would like to see more examples that actually show it is as severe as you state. As of right now, I see maybe 900m worth of lost isk caused by this over the 6-7 products you have stated in the past 6 months. Considering trillions are daily traded on the market, is 900m over 6 months considered a major issue that should result in the firing of a dev?
Need Empire Research Slots. Click here |
Taikun
Gallente Serenity Prime Praesidium Libertatis
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Posted - 2007.07.08 06:23:00 -
[116]
Originally by: InvestigadorTaikun, read [url="http://diuf.unifr.ch/courses/05-06/mmi/slides/handouts/MMI_07_handouts.pdf" this pdf from a HCI researcher[/url], pages 14 to 18. This will give you some ammo to counter people's arguments
Note: (HCI = Human Computer Interaction)
Note2: Use the magnifying glass to read the slides. They are on hi-res so you can zoom them a lot and see all the details.
God bless you sir for that.
I work in the eCommerce strategy section of a major bank. We have 3 people who spend days / weeks testing user interface design on all of out eCommerce related applications before launch because... if you click this and that and WHOOPS you overpay a few hundred thousand you are going to have a ticked off business customer, and probably a lawsuit.
This type of stuff is their bread and butter and always delays the project rollouts because they are never happy until they have check everything a couple 1000 times.
Again, thanks.
Taikun -----------------------------------
For lack of a better word ladies and gentlemen... Greed is good. |
Taikun
Gallente Serenity Prime Praesidium Libertatis
|
Posted - 2007.07.08 06:25:00 -
[117]
Edited by: Taikun on 08/07/2007 06:29:03
Originally by: Shadarle So you're saying if YOU, as a USER, drop something on the keyboard then the game is supposed to stop anything bad from possibly happening because YOU were clumsy?
Yes.
That is the intent of the warning box.
Taikun -----------------------------------
For lack of a better word ladies and gentlemen... Greed is good. |
Taikun
Gallente Serenity Prime Praesidium Libertatis
|
Posted - 2007.07.08 06:29:00 -
[118]
Edited by: Taikun on 08/07/2007 06:31:31
Originally by: Ricdic Ok, my final post on the matter.
I had a good look at those pictures you posted. All of them bar one were at least 6 months ago. The only one that was recent, was the Myrmidon. Now I can see that this happens 'all the time' due to you mostly picking up old examples from 6+ months ago. Obviosly this is a large issue...
Anyway, having said that, the Myrmidon you have pointed out could very well have been the product of an ISK seller or ISK buyer, as this is sometimes the way they handle transactions. You can't use one recent example to prove a point of an issue that is at such a high demand level that you are trying to prove.
So, if this truly is a major issue, I would like to see more examples that actually show it is as severe as you state. As of right now, I see maybe 900m worth of lost isk caused by this over the 6-7 products you have stated in the past 6 months. Considering trillions are daily traded on the market, is 900m over 6 months considered a major issue that should result in the firing of a dev?
900 million in one region on a handful of products.
There are more regions and more products in this game. You do the math. it is easily in the TRILLIONS and there is a whole sub market of people putting buy ourders out to capitalise on it.
YOU explain why folks put a region wide buy order for Megathons for 100,000 isk.
And yes. If somebody in my organisation was slap happy with releasing code to the public in such a fashion and then organisation chose to dismiss the issue AND the customer when the issue when raised... somebody would be fired.
I'd fire them myself.
Taikun -----------------------------------
For lack of a better word ladies and gentlemen... Greed is good. |
Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2007.07.08 06:31:00 -
[119]
Originally by: Ricdic So, if this truly is a major issue, I would like to see more examples that actually show it is as severe as you state.
I'm also going to conclude any further posts in this thread. IMHO this thread needs to be euthanized. But let me state that I never thought this issue to be major. It is very minor. The only reason I support the idea of the default state change is simply because it is proper follow through. From post one of mine I've stated that the op is ott and mostly incorrect. Sadly his being right about one thing has filled him with the sense of righteousness that he tries to pummel people with. Meh, there is no reasoning with either side of this debate as no one here is interested in solutions. Just pwning each other. I guess what you can't do in game you'll do here. Bleh.
The Eve-Online forums may not have invented whining, but they sure have perfected it.
Misanthropy: It's not just for Rednecks! |
Investigador
Caldari Hator inc
|
Posted - 2007.07.08 06:59:00 -
[120]
Originally by: Taikun
Originally by: InvestigadorTaikun, read [url="http://diuf.unifr.ch/courses/05-06/mmi/slides/handouts/MMI_07_handouts.pdf" this pdf from a HCI researcher[/url], pages 14 to 18. This will give you some ammo to counter people's arguments
Note: (HCI = Human Computer Interaction)
Note2: Use the magnifying glass to read the slides. They are on hi-res so you can zoom them a lot and see all the details.
God bless you sir for that.
I work in the eCommerce strategy section of a major bank. We have 3 people who spend days / weeks testing user interface design on all of out eCommerce related applications before launch because... if you click this and that and WHOOPS you overpay a few hundred thousand you are going to have a ticked off business customer, and probably a lawsuit.
This type of stuff is their bread and butter and always delays the project rollouts because they are never happy until they have check everything a couple 1000 times.
Again, thanks.
Taikun
I'm just happy to see someone that actually does extensive HCI testing before releasing a software product
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