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Taikun
Gallente Serenity Prime Praesidium Libertatis
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Posted - 2007.07.08 21:48:00 -
[1]
Want to avoid loan scams?
Want to knon how they work? How to set one up? Why it works? Who is to blame for it being in the game?
Well look no further.
MAKE YOUR SELF MILLIONS OF ISKs RICHER EXPLOITING CCP CRAPPY INTERFACE
...or protect yourself. Either or.
Loan Scam Guide
Enjoy, Taikun
P.S. Next in my series of scam guides is the 'Want to Buy' scam. Scams are trademarked and brought to you by the same inept CCP GUI department as the 'double click instant sale' and the 'Loan Scam Muddle'. -----------------------------------
For lack of a better word ladies and gentlemen... Greed is good. |
Terminus adacai
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.07.08 23:19:00 -
[2]
Dude, not another one..... Try playing the game or getting a life....
Better yet, learn to write code and apply for the job. Your complaints about the interface are getting old quick...
Opinions reflected on my posts are just that, my opinions. They do not reflect views held by my corp or alliance. |
Shadarle
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Posted - 2007.07.08 23:28:00 -
[3]
The WTB scam has been well documented on the forums. Honestly with the changes made by CCP if you fall for it then you kind of deserve it at this point.
And the loan scam... if you fall for it you deserve it.
Tanking Setups Compared
Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.07.09 00:21:00 -
[4]
Well, the point is not "if you fall for a scam you deserve it", however true that might probably be or not be. His point is that the interface is counter-intuitive (not to say downright crappy) to all users, old and new alike.
And his point sadly stands. CCP has a history of crappy and/or misleading interface design. You'd think they'd grow out of it eventually.
Char creation guide | Module/Rig stacknerfing explained |
Wyehr
Shadow Of The Light R i s e
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Posted - 2007.07.09 00:54:00 -
[5]
The funny thing is that the loan contract makes perfect sense and is quite understandable if the loan is for an object (like a ship) rather than for ISK.
[ 2007.03.18 18:45:59 ] (notify) Typhoon belonging to Gandolf self-destructs. |
Taikun
Gallente Serenity Prime Praesidium Libertatis
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Posted - 2007.07.09 01:29:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Wyehr The funny thing is that the loan contract makes perfect sense and is quite understandable if the loan is for an object (like a ship) rather than for ISK.
It sure does.
Because in this game people are far more likely to loan a ship rather than the cash to buy one according to CCP thinking.
Taikun -----------------------------------
For lack of a better word ladies and gentlemen... Greed is good. |
Taikun
Gallente Serenity Prime Praesidium Libertatis
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Posted - 2007.07.09 01:39:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Terminus adacai Dude, not another one..... Try playing the game or getting a life....
Better yet, learn to write code and apply for the job. Your complaints about the interface are getting old quick...
I have reported you to CCP for trolling in this thread. You are not welcome to post in my threrads if you are not going to obey the rules of these forums.
Taikun -----------------------------------
For lack of a better word ladies and gentlemen... Greed is good. |
Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2007.07.09 03:33:00 -
[8]
I liked it. You did very well in plain language step by step demonstrating of the facts. /applaud
Personally I don't care about your negative opinions mate, I have quite a few about ccp devs & vols myself. However I do find it to be quite disappointing for people to offer up excellent work, like you've done, and place an ideologically hate wrapper around it. You don't realize that by doing so you invalidate any credibility in your work.
From experience, leave the hard factual stuff seperate from the opinion stuff. Express it, I'm all for that. Just keep the two separate so as to not denigrate either effort. Mixing them just gets you discredited as a crackpot malcontent. Even if you are one you don't have to appear to be one.
Still... nice job.
The Eve-Online forums may not have invented whining, but they sure have perfected it.
Misanthropy: It's not just for Rednecks! |
Shinpei
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Posted - 2007.07.09 06:24:00 -
[9]
just tried it with one of my friends for fun, see if it worked. I set up 110 for price, and 100 for loan, and 1 day.
but it didn't work lol. He never lost 110 isk from his wallet when he accepted the contract.
I have no idea how I could have done anything wrong lol. any idea?
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Taikun
Gallente Serenity Prime Praesidium Libertatis
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Posted - 2007.07.09 06:53:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Shinpei just tried it with one of my friends for fun, see if it worked. I set up 110 for price, and 100 for loan, and 1 day.
but it didn't work lol. He never lost 110 isk from his wallet when he accepted the contract.
I have no idea how I could have done anything wrong lol. any idea?
Did he lose 10 isk from his wallet? And does he still have a loan outstanding to you for 100 in his contacts?
If so, it has worked just fine. You scammed him out 10 isk and he owes you 100.
You never lent him anything. All the $$$ went to you.
Taikun -----------------------------------
For lack of a better word ladies and gentlemen... Greed is good. |
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Lord Nomad
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2007.07.09 07:00:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Taikun Want to avoid loan scams?
Want to knon how they work? How to set one up? Why it works? Who is to blame for it being in the game?
Well look no further.
MAKE YOUR SELF MILLIONS OF ISKs RICHER EXPLOITING CCP CRAPPY INTERFACE
...or protect yourself. Either or.
Loan Scam Guide
Enjoy, Taikun
P.S. Next in my series of scam guides is the 'Want to Buy' scam. Scams are trademarked and brought to you by the same inept CCP GUI department as the 'double click instant sale' and the 'Loan Scam Muddle'.
This is probably one of the most useful player made posts i've ever seen since the beggining of the game,and to all those who complain about it,you plz go get a life and stop flaming if you dont have anything serious or usefull to say.
nice job mate.
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Shinpei
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Posted - 2007.07.09 07:30:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Taikun
Did he lose 10 isk from his wallet? And does he still have a loan outstanding to you for 100 in his contacts?
If so, it has worked just fine. You scammed him out 10 isk and he owes you 100.
You never lent him anything. All the $$$ went to you.
Taikun
hmm, I checked my log, and you were right! thanks man
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Robacz
Essence Trade Essence Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.07.09 07:31:00 -
[13]
Hm, I don't find this that confusing, actually you usually have to pay some processing fee for getting a loan. However it should be more clear that 110 ISK is price for accepting the contract, not amount of money to be returned.
Fill the bug report, they are improving Contract interface all the time, so they will probably fix this one as well.
_________ Buying/Selling: Implants & Hardwirings Producing/BPCs: Mining Barges, T2 Components T2 Distribution: 8 regions covered |
Martosh Toma
Gallente Fraction Investment
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Posted - 2007.07.09 08:07:00 -
[14]
So all they would need to do for you is alter the message box slightly stating that the isk price has to be payed on entering the contracts aand that the items and/or money loaned (with specification) have to be returned at the end of the contract
Not much of a change actually.
But you seem to be pretty angy about this all. Did you have higher hopes for the loans section in the contracts? I know when I checked it out I did have such hopes, I wanted it to provide me with a reduced (or eliminated) risk on scams for legimite loans? Sadly I understand that there is no way CCP could introduce this, because it would enable other scams that would actually increase the amount of isk availeble in the game rather than take it from someone else.
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Taikun
Gallente Serenity Prime Praesidium Libertatis
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Posted - 2007.07.09 09:31:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Taikun on 09/07/2007 09:33:01
Originally by: Martosh Toma So all they would need to do for you is alter the message box slightly stating that the isk price has to be payed on entering the contracts aand that the items and/or money loaned (with specification) have to be returned at the end of the contract
Not much of a change actually.
But you seem to be pretty angy about this all. Did you have higher hopes for the loans section in the contracts? I know when I checked it out I did have such hopes, I wanted it to provide me with a reduced (or eliminated) risk on scams for legimite loans? Sadly I understand that there is no way CCP could introduce this, because it would enable other scams that would actually increase the amount of isk availeble in the game rather than take it from someone else.
Eh? Your post is very confusing.
But I hope I answer this by saying.
Normal people in this game do not loan items or ships. They loan ISK.
The interface should reflect this.
You need to know the following.
The principle to be loaned. The rate of interest. The amount to be repayed.
This can be confirmed by a summary.
YOU will get X amount on loan. YOU will have this for X amount of time. At the end of this time YOU will have to pay X amount back.
Very clear. No ambigious fees up front.... no confusing dialouge. 3 simple things to deal with. Amount, rate of interest and the return payment.
No muss no fuss.
Instead CCP implemented a convoluted confusing WAY OUT OF WHACK process.
There is no excuse from their interface department for letting that happen.
Taikun
-----------------------------------
For lack of a better word ladies and gentlemen... Greed is good. |
Ricdic
Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz
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Posted - 2007.07.09 10:23:00 -
[16]
I agree with Shar in this regard. Your point is fair, and the correct description of the loan is quite misleading. I think leaving the opinionaited portion of your display out would have done far better for your image, but I am willing to ignore it due to the fact that i have personally had anguish with the loans system (just trying to use it in the way intended, not been scammed)
Need Empire Research Slots. Click here |
Robacz
Essence Trade Essence Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.07.09 10:42:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Robacz on 09/07/2007 10:43:19
Originally by: Taikun Normal people in this game do not loan items or ships. They loan ISK.
Hmm, personally I will probably never need contracts for ISK loan, but I would like to see something like ship rentals (freighters namely) - which is imo more useful. So the interface needs to be universal and work for both ISK and items/ships.
Originally by: Taikun
Very clear. No ambigious fees up front.... no confusing dialouge. 3 simple things to deal with. Amount, rate of interest and the return payment.
Dialogs need to be clear, but as I said in another post, some one-time fee for providing a loan is ok, no reason to remove it. Besides, you need the option for non-ISK loans.
_________ Buying/Selling: Implants & Hardwirings Producing/BPCs: Mining Barges, T2 Components T2 Distribution: 8 regions covered |
Templer Relleg
Endgame.
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Posted - 2007.07.09 10:46:00 -
[18]
Wow. I know people who have abused this since Revelations 1, surely this is not news?
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2007.07.09 13:40:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Taikun Eh? Your post is very confusing. But I hope I answer this by saying.
Always presume that english is not the prime language of the person typing. It doesn't cure any confusion but does make you more tolerant when you do get confused no matter what the cause. Originally by: Taikun Normal people in this game do not loan items or ships. They loan ISK. The interface should reflect this.
Actually the only reason I don't loan items or ships more regularly is because of the limitations in the loan contract system. However I commonly use it for doing research on other people's bpo's. They loan me the bpo with attached collateral. At the end of the period I return it, researched, and get paid. Originally by: Taikun You need to know the following. The principle to be loaned. The rate of interest.The amount to be repayed.
Yes! Yes! Yes! Originally by: Taikun Instead CCP implemented a convoluted confusing WAY OUT OF WHACK process. There is no excuse from their interface department for letting that happen.
No! No! No! You are pushing me to desire a lifetime ban from these forums. And might I say that your alliance ain't that big that your constant attacks on CCP is going to protect you. A 4 man corp can bring an alliance to its knees. CCP is not, by nature, an english speaking corporation. I don't know icelandic language but I'm pretty sure that the language itself is conjugated much differently than english is. Most other languages are. So to our english speaking minds all other languages form communication in a disjointed manner. What most ego centric people fail to realize is that we, english speaking people, form communication (and thought) in a disjointed manner to the rest of the world. Communication is nothing more than man's attempt to make his own thought a product to be shared with others. Thus communication often reflects the way any trained mind thinks. Your arrogance and ego does not realize that this method (various parts of the interface) fails, mostly, because it is used most heavily by english speaking individuals and that they, the english speakers, are to dense to use/understand it properly. In essence, the more out of whack you think they are, or say they are, the more proof you provide that you are an ego centric weak minded individual who is so provincial as to be considered inbred trailer park trash. Of course I don't think this to be the case so I'm making this attempt to hold the mirror up to you.
The Eve-Online forums may not have invented whining, but they sure have perfected it.
Misanthropy: It's not just for Rednecks! |
Motivated Prophet
Zerodot Schools Power Corrupts Industry's
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Posted - 2007.07.09 17:57:00 -
[20]
I'll leave the interface comments to others, at least for the moment.
But I do need to correct this:
Originally by: Taikun You get a permanent 'FAILED' record stamped on your contract history for everyone to see how you pike out of a loan contract.
Actually, no. That failure is only visible to you and to the person who issued the contract. It's a private (person-to-person) contract; those aren't part of your public record.
MP --
Proud steward of 47 billion isk in public money, and counting. Ask me about mineral compression! |
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Taikun
Gallente Serenity Prime Praesidium Libertatis
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Posted - 2007.07.09 21:26:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Taikun on 09/07/2007 21:27:48
Originally by: Shar Tegral
Originally by: Taikun Eh? Your post is very confusing. But I hope I answer this by saying.
Always presume that english is not the prime language of the person typing. It doesn't cure any confusion but does make you more tolerant when you do get confused no matter what the cause.
Did you pick up any hostility in my comment to that user? I mearley said his post was confusing and I hope I went on to answer his question. Furthermore what makes you assume my first language is English also? That sort of self righteous arrogance will get you in trouble. Allow me to wag a finger at you for being presumptious. Of course I will not say which finger I am using but rest assured the middle one is a distinct possibiltiy. Originally by: Shar Tegral
Originally by: Taikun Normal people in this game do not loan items or ships. They loan ISK. The interface should reflect this.
Actually the only reason I don't loan items or ships more regularly is because of the limitations in the loan contract system. However I commonly use it for doing research on other people's bpo's. They loan me the bpo with attached collateral. At the end of the period I return it, researched, and get paid.
And Dorothy said "there is no place like home, there is no place like home, there is no place like home" and WEEEEeee she went back home. But that was just in the movies. We are in real life and the VAST majority of the entiree WORLD consider a "LOAN" to be primarily for cash, with item a distant second. Nothing YOU do or say will change that because of the following equation. YOU < The rest of us Clear enough? Originally by: Shar Tegral
Originally by: Taikun Instead CCP implemented a convoluted confusing WAY OUT OF WHACK process. There is no excuse from their interface department for letting that happen.
No! No! No!
You are pushing me to desire a lifetime ban from these forums.
That a threat? Are you claiming to be affilited with CCP and threatening to ban me from these forums? I'll just check with the mods on your status on these boards and with CCP. Pretty sure impersonating a CCP employee will get you removed from the boards and from the game as well. Originally by: Shar Tegral CCP is not, by nature, an english speaking corporation. I don't know icelandic language but I'm pretty sure that the language itself is conjugated much differently than english is. Most other languages are. So to our english speaking minds all other languages form communication in a disjointed manner. What most ego centric people fail to realize is that we, english speaking people, form communication (and thought) in a disjointed manner to the rest of the world.
The make and market a game to english speakers. I could care less if they wear loin skins, jump about with spears and club while talking in click and grunts. If they want my money without complaint each and every month they will cater to my (and yours for that matter) satisfaction. Period. Originally by: Shar Tegral Communication is nothing more than man's attempt to make his own thought a product to be shared with others. Thus communication often reflects the way any trained mind thinks. Your arrogance and ego does not realize that this method (various parts of the interface) fails, mostly, because it is used most heavily by english speaking individuals and that they, the english speakers, are to dense to use/understand it properly.
In essence, the more out of whack you think they are, or say they are, the more proof you provide that you are an ego centric weak minded individual who is so provincial as to be considered inbred trailer park trash. Of course I don't think this to be the case so I'm making this attempt to hold the mirror up to you.
Nice personal attack. Welcome to the ranks of trolldom.
Taikun -----------------------------------
For lack of a better word ladies and gentlemen... Greed is good. |
Taikun
Gallente Serenity Prime Praesidium Libertatis
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Posted - 2007.07.09 21:45:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Taikun on 09/07/2007 21:47:13
Originally by: Templer Relleg Wow. I know people who have abused this since Revelations 1, surely this is not news?
Oh oh oh... lets all let little 6 year old Sally go down to the park alone because all the 'bad things' all happened in the past.
If we never think about those 'bad things' or tell anyone else about those 'bad things' little 6 year old Sally can go play by herself without fear of anything 'bad' happening.
Right Templar?
Your logic is completely astounding. It is a damn issue in this game which CCP knows about and has yet never bothered to fix. In the meantime they have rolled out Rev II.
Because of this we the community MUST continualy remind CCP they are letting us all down with their slap happy and ****ty interface design.
Perhaps one day the moron in CCP blocking basic interface improvement from happening will either die, quit, get fired, get promoted, or get hired by Al Quedea. Only THEN there will be some movement of this and other issues. (God willing.)
Until this happens all we can to is raise the issue over and over and over again.
Don't liike it? Tough.
Taikun
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For lack of a better word ladies and gentlemen... Greed is good. |
Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2007.07.09 21:55:00 -
[23]
To be blunt, I hope your last rant/post gets you banned.
There is never any call for such statements nor accusations.
The Eve-Online forums may not have invented whining, but they sure have perfected it.
Misanthropy: It's not just for Rednecks! |
Ray McCormack
BIG
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Posted - 2007.07.09 21:59:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Taikun Perhaps one day the moron in CCP blocking basic interface improvement from happening will either die, quit, get fired, get promoted, or get hired by Al Quedea. Only THEN there will be some movement of this and other issues. (God willing.)
You've lost any modicum of respect I may have had left for you. Do the EVE community in general a favour and stop posting on these forums.
| Free Research On BS BPOs | BMBE ISK Loans | |
Taikun
Gallente Serenity Prime Praesidium Libertatis
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Posted - 2007.07.09 22:02:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Ray McCormack You've lost any modicum of respect I may have had left for you. Do the EVE community in general a favour and stop posting on these forums.
I'll try to get over that blow somehow.
meanwhile you liuke the rest of us will have to wait YEARS for CCP to do anythign about basic issues effecting the community.
Simple changes to prevent scams from taking place for everyone.
instead the rush patches to prevent POS bowling that effect a mear handleful of the more infulential and powerful players and alliances.
Yes... the person who decides such resources allocation is doing a crappy job. This is a fact.
Taikun -----------------------------------
For lack of a better word ladies and gentlemen... Greed is good. |
Ray McCormack
BIG
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Posted - 2007.07.09 22:05:00 -
[26]
Your manner is both aggressive and condescending when arguing your point. Your views are not constructive.
| Free Research On BS BPOs | BMBE ISK Loans | |
Taikun
Gallente Serenity Prime Praesidium Libertatis
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Posted - 2007.07.09 22:12:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Ray McCormack Your manner is both aggressive and condescending when arguing your point. Your views are not constructive.
My view is simple.
Here is the problem. It effect X amount of people. It has been outstanding for X amount of time. CCP has done nothing about it.
From a customer service standpoint, SOMEBODY at CCP need to go. Not this ticked off customer sick and tired of seeing CCP gloss over all these issues while pandering to a select minority.
Don't like my style? Oh well. Pluck out your eyeballs. I simply don't care.
I am not seeking your approval and couldn't give a toss whether you like me or not.
My message is on point, and my delivery is appropriate for the amount of communication I have already had with them behind the scenes.
Time for movement on their part I say. It's long overdue.
Taikun -----------------------------------
For lack of a better word ladies and gentlemen... Greed is good. |
Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2007.07.09 22:20:00 -
[28]
Term of Service
Section 6.7 When submitting any comments in any form to the Web Site, whether it be via chat services, bulletin board services, customer feedback email, or the like you, are solely responsible for the content of any comments you make. You agree that no comments submitted by you to the Web Site will:
II be libelous or contain libelous or other otherwise unlawful, abusive, or obscene material, or constitute the misappropriation of trade secrets of any third party;
Making accusations, disparaging remarks and including a terrorist organization in those same statements. You simply don't have the sense god gave a flea on when you've gone to far.
The Eve-Online forums may not have invented whining, but they sure have perfected it.
Misanthropy: It's not just for Rednecks! |
Martosh Toma
Gallente Fraction Investment
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Posted - 2007.07.09 22:30:00 -
[29]
You claim that all you want is in fact a relatively simple modification of the message box for accepting a loan so the actual intentions of the person issuing them as well as the results are more clear.
I find your responses far more agressive than is warranted by this slight inconvenience. So I fail to understand why you respond this way, can you explain that? I would think that a simple alteration suggestion in the design forums, or perhaps a bug report where you give an example of how a correctly informative messagebox text would look like is far more likely to affect change of that message box.
As to the part where you make a loan contract and the less than optimal interface for that purpose. While I agree, I must also say that after the initial confusion where you discover how it actually works you will be able to use its 'functionality'
Things you might have liked to see included like setting an % intrest and an intrest-period as well as perhaps a material colateral or fines for late repayment may be very intresting but still useless. CCP cannot introduce an enforced isk loan system because it would be to open for abuse that would be much worse than simple scamming.
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Taikun
Gallente Serenity Prime Praesidium Libertatis
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Posted - 2007.07.09 22:30:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Shar Tegral Making accusations, disparaging remarks and including a terrorist organization in those same statements. You simply don't have the sense god gave a flea on when you've gone to far.
Good gawd grow up and stop trolling my threads.
If whoever is preventing interface change in CCP grew some wings and flew away or dematerialised into thin air the effect would be the same. The impediment to improvement would be gone.
If you think I am disparaging someone rather than commenting on their failure to provide adequate customer service, you are nothing but a politically correct nutjob gone wild.
Taikun -----------------------------------
For lack of a better word ladies and gentlemen... Greed is good. |
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