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Woe Sin
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Posted - 2007.07.09 16:27:00 -
[1]
A couple of questions...
1. As long as an item's description does NOT specificaly indicate "penalty for using more than one of these items," can a player ASSUME that the item's attributes are cumulative when employing more than one of the same type of item? (e.g. Two cap rechargeers will double the additive affect to the player's capacitor recharge rate).
2. Do energy succours, such as Heavy Knaves, "work' (extract energy) from NPC pirate ships? (applying #1's answer; so two knaves would drain twice as much energy?)
3. Can a cargo scanner be used to look into silos in a mission or a room to see if they contain loot?
Thanks,
Woe
3.
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Mudkest
MetaForge Ekliptika
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Posted - 2007.07.09 16:39:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Woe Sin A couple of questions...
1. As long as an item's description does NOT specificaly indicate "penalty for using more than one of these items," can a player ASSUME that the item's attributes are cumulative when employing more than one of the same type of item? (e.g. Two cap rechargeers will double the additive affect to the player's capacitor recharge rate).
if there's no stacking penalty mentiond in description then its not stacking penalized, so 2 cap recharges with, say, 10% bonus will reduce cap regen from 100s to 81(100 * 0.9 * 0.9.. or is it 100/1.1/1.1 ? hmm going to ahve to check that) Off course there may still be bugs in description now and then but those left aside ;)
not sure on the other 2, but think knaves can suck cap from npcs and that cargo scanners dont work on structures
-Huzzah for punctuation in LP store! |
Steini OFSI
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2007.07.09 16:44:00 -
[3]
The Mathematician will answer 1+1=2 due to the laws of Mathematics The Probability person will answer 1+1=1,8-2,2 due to 10% margin of error in both ways of each 1 meaning range from 0.9-1.1 The civil engineer would say 1+1=3, 1+1 is certanly 2 but we add 1 for safety
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Lars Intarestum
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Posted - 2007.07.09 16:51:00 -
[4]
Alot of things are "stacking nerfed" without it really being obvious. Modules tend to be applied in sequence. So, if you have two 10% cap recharge modules, it would be 100 * .9 = 90 * .9 = 81, rather than 100 * .8 = 80.
As far as NOS, remember you can't drain more Cap than the ship has. I do not beleive nos are stacking nerf'd (yet) but you will eventually run their capacitor dry. As for it working on NPCs, I can't say definitively, but I beleive they work like regular ships in that regard.
The cargo scanner, I have no idea.
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Lars Intarestum
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Posted - 2007.07.09 16:57:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Steini OFSI The Mathematician will answer 1+1=2 due to the laws of Mathematics The Probability person will answer 1+1=1,8-2,2 due to 10% margin of error in both ways of each 1 meaning range from 0.9-1.1 The civil engineer would say 1+1=3, 1+1 is certanly 2 but we add 1 for safety
The Computer Scientist will answer 1 + 1 = 10.
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Vorketh Mordanil
Amarr Brotherhood of Acquisitions
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Posted - 2007.07.09 17:16:00 -
[6]
Nos does work against NPC's like normal... however NPCs' capacitor doesn't operate like a player's. They have basically a pool of cap that you can nos up. However, none of their modules actually use any real cap, so even if you stop getting any appreciable amount of cap from them using your nos, they are still repping / ab'ing / mwding to their cold, soulless heart's content.
That said, some have speculated that nossing reduces the frequency with which NPCs repair, etc. I haven't a stopwatch handy by my computer to test this out, so I can't answer anything but your original question, which I do so in affirmative.
In short - YES. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Woe Sin
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Posted - 2007.07.09 17:30:00 -
[7]
Thanks to all respondents. It is as I suspected but, what do I know... I'm not a technical type, but a "tree-hugger."
BTW: The biologist would say 1 + 1 = N (where N is any whole number from 0 to ... depending on specie).
Appreciatively,
Woe
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LUKEC
Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.07.09 17:35:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Steini OFSI The Mathematician will answer 1+1=2 due to the laws of Mathematics
Not always -------- I tanked D2 capital fleet and all I got was truncated Erebus mail.
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Lars Intarestum
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Posted - 2007.07.09 18:45:00 -
[9]
Originally by: LUKEC
Originally by: Steini OFSI The Mathematician will answer 1+1=2 due to the laws of Mathematics
Not always
So long as we're talking in base 10. ;P
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Tanlor
Gallente THE MISPHIT'S
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Posted - 2007.07.09 18:58:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Lars Intarestum
Originally by: LUKEC
Originally by: Steini OFSI The Mathematician will answer 1+1=2 due to the laws of Mathematics
Not always
So long as we're talking in base 10. ;P
And we aren't dealing with exceptionally large values of 2...
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Mudkest
MetaForge Ekliptika
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Posted - 2007.07.09 19:02:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Steini OFSI The Mathematician will answer 1+1=2 due to the laws of Mathematics The Probability person will answer 1+1=1,8-2,2 due to 10% margin of error in both ways of each 1 meaning range from 0.9-1.1 The civil engineer would say 1+1=3, 1+1 is certanly 2 but we add 1 for safety
avian engineer would say 1+1=2.2, 10% for safety reasons and adding a whole 1 is too heavy ;)
-Huzzah for punctuation in LP store! |
Jonson pros
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Posted - 2007.07.09 19:06:00 -
[12]
The Computer Scientist will answer 1 + 1 = 10
/salute
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Corwain
Gallente Kamite
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Posted - 2007.07.09 19:15:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Jonson pros
The Computer Scientist will answer 1 + 1 = 10
/salute
And apparently the computer scientist is too lazy to read the whole thread and find that his answer has already been posted.
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Helen Hunts
Gallente Red Dragon Mining inc
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Posted - 2007.07.09 19:23:00 -
[14]
In the case of mice and rabbits, 1 + 1 = Where did all these blasted things come from anyway?
Mine da rocks, make more ships. Pop da rats, make more rigs. Sell da gear, make more money.
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Litus Arowar
Amarr Obsidian Asylum Pure.
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Posted - 2007.07.09 20:00:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Lars Intarestum Alot of things are "stacking nerfed" without it really being obvious. Modules tend to be applied in sequence. So, if you have two 10% cap recharge modules, it would be 100 * .9 = 90 * .9 = 81, rather than 100 * .8 = 80.
As far as NOS, remember you can't drain more Cap than the ship has. I do not beleive nos are stacking nerf'd (yet) but you will eventually run their capacitor dry. As for it working on NPCs, I can't say definitively, but I beleive they work like regular ships in that regard.
The cargo scanner, I have no idea.
well that's got nothing to do with stacking, it's just being applied as a percentage rather than a "magic number"... I suspect you knew that though
actually the only place where CCP uses "magic numbers" off the top of my head is with racial resistences on ships... dirty bastards
and as mentioned, nos does indeed slow the targetted NPC's tank, and will give you cap from their cap pool, which slowly recharges, etc... they don't use cap, they just carry it around for your convenience
as for wether a small nos will slow down their tank less than a heavy nos, I have no idea, but I suspect that all nos have the exact same effect, and possibly regardless of the number of modules used (as in, the effect is just a "yes/no" depending on wether the ship is being nossed/neuted or not) EVE Acronym Guide |
Neuromandis
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Posted - 2007.07.09 20:26:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Neuromandis on 09/07/2007 20:28:45
Originally by: Vorketh Mordanil Nos does work against NPC's like normal... however NPCs' capacitor doesn't operate like a player's. They have basically a pool of cap that you can nos up. However, none of their modules actually use any real cap, so even if you stop getting any appreciable amount of cap from them using your nos, they are still repping / ab'ing / mwding to their cold, soulless heart's content.
That said, some have speculated that nossing reduces the frequency with which NPCs repair, etc. I haven't a stopwatch handy by my computer to test this out, so I can't answer anything but your original question, which I do so in affirmative. In short - YES.
Mate, tried and tested, backed by secondary evidence as well. Tried and tested: we were in a complex where a raven couldn't break even the shield tank of the overseer and two ravens barely (**BARELY**) broke him, we tried nossing him with our tankapocalypse. After 4-5 heavy nos, a single raven could break him. Repeated testing a few times as well, and as far as I am concerned there is no doubt that it works. Of course, these things are undocumented and as such even if they change I doubt we would know.
Secondary evidence, somewhere in the database export on the stats of Nos there is a DecreaseChancetoRepair or somesuch entry that implies that the use of nos on NPC's (some of them?) decreases their chance to repair per cycle. --- If someone else from my Corporation or Alliance agrees with me, he will say so. Assume nobody does :) --- WTB: Scorpion wing (left)
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X99 Z990
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Posted - 2007.07.09 20:28:00 -
[17]
1+1=11 ... Its two 1s, youre all wrong!
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Christopher Dalran
Gallente Deadly Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.09 20:31:00 -
[18]
At microsoft 1 + 1 = Fatal Error: Int. divided by 0. ------------------------------- C.D's Formula for success ------------------------------- Credit Card = Game Time Card Gametime Card = ISK Therefore Credit Card = ISK.
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Vincenzo Delloro
Amarr Lux et Veritas
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Posted - 2007.07.09 20:34:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Lars Intarestum
Originally by: Steini OFSI The Mathematician will answer 1+1=2 due to the laws of Mathematics The Probability person will answer 1+1=1,8-2,2 due to 10% margin of error in both ways of each 1 meaning range from 0.9-1.1 The civil engineer would say 1+1=3, 1+1 is certanly 2 but we add 1 for safety
The Computer Scientist will answer 1 + 1 = 10.
The philosopher will answer "It all depends on what you mean by '+'..."
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Joshua Lonestar
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Posted - 2007.07.09 20:58:00 -
[20]
Bump, for no other reason then this thread is good.
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Sharupak
Minmatar Knights Of the Black Sun
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Posted - 2007.07.09 21:02:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Lars Intarestum
Originally by: Steini OFSI The Mathematician will answer 1+1=2 due to the laws of Mathematics The Probability person will answer 1+1=1,8-2,2 due to 10% margin of error in both ways of each 1 meaning range from 0.9-1.1 The civil engineer would say 1+1=3, 1+1 is certanly 2 but we add 1 for safety
The Computer Scientist will answer 1 + 1 = 10.
No, he would answer 4, 1+1=4
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It is people like the OPer which cause MMO games to suck because they have that "the grass is greener on the other side" syndrome so developers s |
Lowanaera
Amarr Paladin Imperium Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.09 21:38:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Lowanaera on 09/07/2007 21:38:57
Originally by: Lars Intarestum Alot of things are "stacking nerfed" without it really being obvious. Modules tend to be applied in sequence. So, if you have two 10% cap recharge modules, it would be 100 * .9 = 90 * .9 = 81, rather than 100 * .8 = 80.
Except that they aren't stacking nerfed at all. Cap recharge amount per second is determined by cap amount(A) over recharge time (T). Adding a -10% cap recharger would then be A/.9T. That doesn't change no matter how many you add, the formula is always A/.9T. But, what about reduced effect? As you point out, the absolute reduction in seconds decreases the lower T is reduced.
1000/100 = 10 cap/sec (baseline) 1000/90 = 11.111 cap/sec (10 second reduction, 1.111 cap/sec increase, 11% improvement) 1000/81 = 12.346 cap/sec (9 second reduction, 1.235 cap/sec increase, 11% improvement) 1000/72.9 = 13.717 cap/sec (8.1 second reduction, 1.371 cap/sec increase, 11% improvement) 1000/65.61 = 15.242 cap/sec (7.29 second reduction, 1.525 cap/sec increase, 11% improvement)
So while the absolute reduction in seconds decreases as you add more rechargers, the effect of that reduction in terms of cap/sec gain improves by comparison. That can hardly be considered "nerfed".
Though, for the sake of clarity and to avoid any nitpickers, I will point out again that the formula is always A/.9T, the effect is always an 11% improvement (A/.9T = 1.11A/T) compared to the old value, it isn't "stacking buffed" and doesn't technically get better as you add more in absolute terms, only relative to previous increases.
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Atlanton Marcus
Caldari Veto. Veto Corp
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Posted - 2007.07.09 22:06:00 -
[23]
The economist will stand up, close the blinds, sit back down, and say, "Well what do you want 1 + 1 to equal?"
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